He ran the entire part above (dry ran)… except for the drill because it was to long. Then he just made a simple error in the program when editing… and then didn’t pause the tool as it approached the material… to double check that it was positioned correctly. Simple mistake that won’t happen again.
I’ve never crashed one yet… (I’m only 17 only machining I’ve done is on manual machines and only cnc is a small amount of laser cutting and a fair bit of 3d printing
people in my shop crash all the time the job refuses to update our setup sheets i always tell the guys empty out every tool and if the wrong tool comes out nothing will crash cuz the pocket is empty.
When I was fresh in the trade I came from using a manual lathe which counts DOC in diametric value, then went to a CNC lathe and was about to do an internal bar cycle. I typed in 4 mm into the DOC row in the program and thought nothing about it. When the cycle started on the boring bar the whole tool just exploded on contact and the machine emergency stop kicked in. That's when I learned that CNC lathes counts DOC in radial units 😅🤷♂
A few years ago we had a bad crash on a big $1.5mil machine. It didn't feel bad at first but the spindle repair bill was around $30k and about a month of downtime.
@@derekschommer1465 Well it´s not cheap but compared to other brands HAAS is one of the cheapest on repairs. The company I work for had to replace the spindle on our HAAS VF4 after I destroyed it. I had the machine going while I was getting some more material and when I came back to the machine the tool had been bent out of the spindle, but the machine had not turned off the spindle so it was still spinning which ended up destorying the bottom of the spindle and the bearings. It cost us around $7500 for the repair.
@@greeneyesfromohio4103 eBay and skill, inherent or borrowed (practical machinist), if you think about it, there was probably only one component, or chain of components, on that board that needed replacing. I've had to add an emotional support capacitor to one machine that started acting up, clipped the wire going to a motor overload thermister on another. for me that $18,000 would be spent on 3 replacement CAT 50 machines and rigging.
Just did the same thing with a 1.375" Sumitomo WDX drill in a Hyundai Wia 650. I was absolutely amazed that only the inserts broke! In my accidental attempt to rapid 11 inches below the top of my part, I made a really cool .5" thick octopus tentacle looking chip. Cool suff!
Those kind of crashes are usually followed by - “Well, what had happened was… “, lol! I won’t even say that Heller is an awesome piece of equipment- that’s a work of art! Good stuff!
One of my favourite sayings, "If it ain't broke, try harder!" I'm the kind of guy who sale reps hate because if they tell me a tool runs at X, that tool is being tested FIRST TIME at X. No messing around 😂
I can personally assure all of you, that this was 100% a result of me cancelling my tool length offset. Maybe stupid, but sorry im not perfect. We were collectively impressed that the machine kept trucking, so decided to share it.
@@barrysetzer hey, just to keep up hows the heller doing from the video? did the spindle have to get replaced already or are you guys still waiting for it to fail?
@@aktik6000 yeah, it is also an axial crash, if it were a radial collision, the machine would be damaged thats for sure, it's unsurprising the axes haven't moved with that type of collision. Not dissing heller, I love them, just saying that's all 😂
ya just because the kinematics check out doesn't mean the machine is ok. We had a crash on a machine 10 years ago and is took a few years before all kinds of gremlins started showing up, but they did.
That's probably the best sales video for heller I have ever seen. The biggest fear I have in purchasing a large mill like that would be the inevitable crash. Good to see they have some form of remediation to avoid major damage.
they can't have that fast of a reaction to prevent damage, at least with bearings its pretty much impossible. The Microdent that was made inside the bearing rings / the deformation in the bearing balls means that the service life of those bearings is like 100th of their normal service life. Especially with the impact vector that happened here. My Professor in CNC machining (developed and built cnc 3/5 axis machines in germany for 30 years) said that these crashes happen, but if its a bad one (like in the video), you won't notice it in the first few hours, thinking the machine didn't get hurt. Like a month later, you need to have the spindle serviced, because it won't run properly anymore. Nobody thinks about the crash because noone reports it (at least most of the time) and so the connection between the two is never noticed. Every time you fullrun your spindle directly into the a part with maximum velocity, he said you can schedule a service like a month in the future from that crash. Of course this can be a crash that wasn't that bad, in perspective to the bearing size, but it 100% decreased the service life of the axial load bearings.
@@maxcimander188I’m sorry, but you’re wrong, this is new technology , every machine has a maximum axial load for machining, your Z axis load, on newer machines even some haas, it’s called crash prevention, you can set a maximum load to alarm the machine out to prevent damage, let’s say the machine takes damage at around 180% z axis load, you can set the machine to come to a dead stop at 100%, this is very common now on most machines.
If the 3,500 IPM he stated is correct, that should have been 5.1852" IPR & 2.5926" per tooth at the 675 rpm shown at 0:55 (Looks like a 2 flute drill to me) Probably just a little over what the manufacturer recommends! 😆
See I love that this is a video. Seeing a top tier guy like Barry crash makes it feel real. Everybody makes mistakes, it’s what you learn from them that separates you from everyone else.
I've had a couple of crashes, but nothing like that. Having rigid setups is probably the most beneficial. I do a lot of weldment machining and trying to get a rigid setup on some of those parts can be a nightmare when you have several surfaces to machine and often a few in one setup.
Safety is paramount. I need to make it a habit to always check before work. I am especially careful when working with large workpieces on large lathes.
That Heller mill took that crash like a champ. What an amazing machine, not only was it able to protect itself, but recover so quickly as nothing happened. Thanks for showing us what these machines are capable of.
Помню как в начале пути уебал DMC60H аналогичным способом - сверло 35 прилетело на ускоренной подаче в деталь. Станок не пострадал, немного сместило угольник, к которому крепилась деталь, а вот сверло знатно перекосоёбило. Но с помощью трубы оно было выставлено по биению до пяти соток, и продолжило работать после замены пластины. Не ошибается тот, кто ничего не делает. Удачи, с наилучшими пожеланиями)
As a design engineer for heavy duty CNC machines I’m really impressed. To be more precise: A) about your honesty - makes you very trustworthy B) about the durability of this machine. To have almost no crash- impact, although the machine is equipped with a swivel-head. … WOW
this hits close to home, i crashed our 5-axis Leadwell last week, first checks showed the trunion table a bit off, but we still have to call the service techs to come and check it properly... right now its working with around 0,05° offset on A-axis... But hey, before the crash the spindle runout was at 15 microns on 300mm test bar, now its at 5 microns...
@@Andriu_FPV seems like it, but i think i can feel some vibrations from the machine when the spindle is running, maybe it was like that even before my crash, but now i cant really tell...
I was taught to use single block with reduced rapid speed for the first time running a program. Saved my butt several times as a result. I was at another shop running Lathes and the shop foreman asked me to run a mill job one night. He loaded the program and assumed that everything was ok and hit the green button. All hell broke loose. There was another fixture on the table and it hit so bad that the machine was knocked off its mounting pads, Broke the spindle and messed up the gear box. Cost was $9K to repair and he tried to blame it on me. I was clear across the shop and heard the building shudder and thought that's going to be expensive. The owner came up to me and asked who did it. He knew who did it but asked to confirm it, makes your you know what pucker up a tad!!
There are only two cnc machinists types in this world. Those who have crashed them and those who are going to crash them. If you never made a scrapped part or crashed a machine you are either new to the trade or are not working fast or hard enough.
@@barrysetzer YES PLEASE! i think that would have been the most interesting part of the video! everyone knows how to crash.... not everyone knows how to check all required checks, after the crash.
Die Kontrolle zu zeigen ist schon wichtig. Ist das Teil nur für Showzwecke oder muss es verkauft werden. Bei Kundenteil geht es ja so weiter. Teil abspannen, Maschine kontrollieren, Teil aufspannen, wieder ausrichten, Neu starten. Das zu sehen wäre für mich interessant. Gekräscht hat schon ein jeder CNC Bediener.
I have the same feature on my 30 year old Okuma. Its just built so damn tough it can take full rapid crashes. After a crash, I put a piece of wood between the turret and ram the machine in the opposite direction to straighten it out. Dial it in and back to machining again.
And this is why I always have my finger over the feed hold button whenever I'm working with new Gcode. There are so many steps along the way where you can screw up.
I accidently crashed one of our gantry routers a few days ago. I spent about 20 minutes squaring the gantry, but I didn't know that another tech had overrode the soft limits. A tool change attempt led to a gentle knock, and then I had to square it up and resync the motors all over again....
I work with mazak machines and I have also had some strong blows in G0, the truth is that they have all withstood without the slightest problem or misalignment, the horizontal machines from my experience are much more robust, the heller tool change seems quite enough to me slow I have noticed that it changes tools slowly my mazak with double contact bt40 changes tools in less than 3 seconds iit's scary
There was one time at my last job where a guy crashed a DMG mori at 100% rapid with a 4in face mill in the spindle. It was a horizontal so the pallet was tilted way back and the spindle was cracked all the way down the side and was melted on the inside. It ended up costing the company $50,000 to fix because it messed up multiple axis the spindle had to be completely rebuilt and the glass was completely shattered
@@barrysetzer yeah! I was standing right next to the machine. The feeling of the ground shaking was insane! The guy was doing a setup for production parts and he turned block delete on and it was programmed wrong and had the wrong pallet in and bam!
For us fans who will likely never darken the inside of a machine shop, please do an AAR (after action report used after a disaster recovery incident) video to discuss in detail what caused this crash. Even though you didn't hurt the machine or the part, that crash was still scary due to the forces involved.
I don't know what the heller kinematic test is actually measuring. Assuming that it's like the DMG Mori one, where the machine detects the position of rotary axes pivot, i would recommend to check the backlash of z axis as well. It's just a suggestion, not a criticism!
Okay the 12 milion lines of code made me crack. :D I am in machinist school and programs longer than 5-6k lines are impossible. And you wanna do 12 milion with such enthusiasm . I love it
Nice. When our okumas lathes crash they almost need a full rebuild. Multus was crashed and took 2 weeks from tech to pull everything out and back in. Wish they had better quick stop
the huge lathes i run can take a crash pretty much like a train derailment! ive crashed a few times and other employees combined have destroyed $10s of 1000s worth of tooling and absolutely no damage to the machine. id call my self a liar if id not witnessed it over the last 8+ years. Early 1970s built ROMi. lathes they are absolute brutes of machines. the servos will crush the tool (insert) holders and not even flinch.
I've hade 2 serious crashed. The first one i did what i was told dispite i didn't like the idea.. but i was in the beginning of my career so i obeyed. Almost lost my life.. the second one totally my fault, full speed bouth axis with a 52 mm drill from -20 mm inside hole out to tool change position. After that i did some changes in my rutins and never jump over a step.. sins then I've hade a blast. Excuse my bad eng.. I'm from Sweden.
We'll revisit this in 6-8 months if you still have the machine when the spindle bearings fail. Axial crashes are the least worst way to crash, but still hard on the machine and typically dent the bearings in the spindle which leads to long term fretting and spindle failure. Crashes do and will happen again. name of the game in this world. Willing to bet either wrong work coordinate or wrong tool length offset was called. classic oopsie lol
All Heller machines handle a crash like that? It’s one thing to crash my Tormach with 2hp. I couldn’t imagine crashing a machine with enough hp to begin eating itself.... Funny how when writing software you hit the compile button and if there is an error no big deal or program fails to compile. I had to relearn this when I got into Cnc machining because an error could be catastrophic. Much love and gratitude for the content.
Well, a colleage of mine crashed a H5000 straight into the fixture because he selected the wrong program from our robot automation he was setting up. The motor spindle was out of whack by 0.02mm afterwards although it had 8 years of full 3-shift production on it's belt at that point already. So it was not exactly clear if all of that came from the crash. Tool and part of the hydraulic fixturing were also broken. The rest of the machine was fine. Total cost of that crash was around 30k.
At my job writing just got a new doosan?? (Spelling) it's got that sideways puma looking logo on it. I've a machinist in training I've been working for 4 or 5 months so I'm still a rookie, but they said that machine was between 1.7 and 2.5 million dollars. I can't remember exactly I think it was 2.3m so I'm giving leeway each way. We have cheaper machines that don't do the .0010 tolerance as well so we run parts with a. 0030 variance on them and they are our bread and butter. I .are parts for the aerospace industry most of what I personally touch is 99% aluminum. The smaller machines will make certain fittings or pieces out of steel for higher stress/worked areas of the part like clamps ect.
@@tdg911 Not quite sure. We only did a retrofit (new PLC and software) on the existing automation on that particular project. My guess would be around 1.8 million for the machine, tooling, fixturing, automation and in line measuring. But who knows what our customer pays for a new Heller. They have around 30 of them by now.
I crashed a very large bridge mill in the same fashion. Had to change out some 1/4 20 screws and was as good as new. Tough old machine had a fail-safe.
my worst crash was sending a 3/4 mill about 3" long into the side of my 4th axis. Thankfully it just destroyed my soft jaws before the end mill snapped. Didnt enjoy replacing that $250 cutter though.
My 1st day running a horizontal mill, i entered the wrong g code on a b axis movement and sent a 2.5" carbide drill rapid travel into the side of the part and broke a bunch of stuff. Needless to say that was my last time ever running a cnc machine.
Very fun vid, thanks! From the ultra-precision side (SPDT), a crash usually meant a $1500 diamond tool just went bye bye. On my optical generators (fancy 5 axis machines), a crash usually just meant referencing the axes as the fast traverses just weren't all that fast. But everything would be off a few microns or a few thou deg. Usually the optical blank went bye bye.
I would be more impressed if you full rapid lateral position x y and ran into the part and no damage occured....Straight vertical hit is best case scenario for minimal damage or re-calibration.
A verticle plunge like this will feed 100% of the force into the part.. coming in on the X Y axis would cause defelction and bend mill parts. This plunge test could easily damage machine parts that are very DEEP within the CNC
@@03bugeye your point is? I still agree with OP that an x y crash is a much more substantial impact because of the angle on the spindle whilst a vehicle crash is much evenly absorbed. Your bending anything with the spindle you're just stopping fast.
This is why machinist tool carts have wheels on them... just in case. That being said, I've banged up a few machines over the years and was never let go over it. I work for a good company.
It wasn't so much as an indestructible machine (casting, bearings, screws) as the electronic feedback. But, damn, dude......did you not run it through graphics...hahaha lmao!!!😂😂😂
I’d like to see what I like to call a “new guy crash”. Somehow they manage do get the machine to crash in the most spectacular ways. Rather than an intentional crash. And ya if any machinists ever says they’ve never crashed a machine. They’re full of shit and probably not worth taking advice from
I don't believe the drill is in reverse. Look at the moment the drill stops in the material. The momentum looks to be a forward rotation momentum. I think it's just the frame rate messing with perception
Hey guys, could you share your tips (or process if you have it) on what specific steps do you make to avoid crashes? I'm still a job shop and altough I've never crashed my machine badly, I've broken a few end mills
Well, I wonder how long the Heller machines will lasts if you keep getting these repeated crashes. Reason being I am used to my boss crashing the DMG Mori he uses. I kid you not, it is not uncommon for a few crashes a month and the machine runs like nobody's business. Last time he crashed the spindle. Not a run of the mill crash, but by where the tool holding and the spindle meet. The spindle ate some aluminum like a champ, the machine runs like nothing ever happened to it.
You'd think that in 2023 all new machines would have enough situational awareness in the work envelope that they'd avoid crashing entirely. "Nope, Sparky, that drill's too long for that rapid feed command to work. Stopping it before contact. You're welcome." Eventually, via various sensor systems, machines will have that capability.
I assume Barry did program it in some sort of CAM program. So it shouldn't have happened anyways. Either due to machine simulation or standard values (drill cycle starting at stock top). Which makes me wonder how it happened in the first place...
And he explained in the comments... Tool length deactivated by hand programming an additional line... That's how it usually happens 🤣 and how the machine knows not to expect resistance on G0 and stops... Hopefully 😬
