I Kind of Hate Batman 

Charlie would not be Charlie without superheroes. Don't question it, embrace it.

Very well put. Couldn't have said it better myself.

I was just about to write a comment similar to that, thank you for doing it for me, ahahah

Emily Brown

Good argument, but you only proved that Batman is an interesting character, not that he's an objectively good superhero to the world that he inhabits

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i literally feel like he is quoting the song even though I know the song was taken from the video haha

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Da fuk

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RAGE WITH ME! RAAAARRRRGHGHGHGRRRR!

gladrial hahahah although he has so bad villians, he has some of the best villians as well and every decade i feel he gains another one....... so yes.... it is acceptable to rage right now AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!

tonio14 BLARGHAAHHHHHHRRRRRRR I'MNOTWEARINGHOCKEYPADS!!!!

the fire rises. BLUAAAAAAARGHRRRRRRRRGRBHGRGHHHHHHHHHHHHHRGHRGHRGRGH

Yeah that really made my eye balls pop out. Joker? Two-face? Riddler? Bane? Scarecrow? All great villains!!!

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they know we're here for both

eMokid Sixityfour This is not good for my argument at all. -John

***** OH MY GOD!!!!! John Green replied to me!!!!!

Wayne realized that money wouldn't solve the problems... only ACTION would. That's why you don't walk around dumping money on the people. You give it to the groups that will turn that money into ACTION.

Yes, he named them after his parents, one awards money to hospitals the other helps support, arts, education, tolerance and run orphanages.

***** John I just notice you made some correction on your video description but its still wrong. Bruce Wayne did these things in the movies also. Remember at the end of teh dark knight raises? His manson basicly became an orphanage and all of his money went to the well being of the city in general in his will after he faked his death LOL

***** Brilliantly phrased answer. I completely agree with you.

Awesome! Well-said.

"Why is it Batman's job to clean up the city in the first place through use of his wealth?" Because him fighting crime doesn't actually reduce the amount of crime in any significant way.

I think Batman works if you keep him in the category of psychologically damaged "hero". Someone with good intentions but whose trauma and obsession prevent them from being effective in their goals. The problem is that the child version of Batman, the first we usually encounter, is sanitized and presented as a clean hero, which doesn't really make sense. Both Batmans exist in the popular imagination, but only the tormented "dark" Batman is coherent as a character and, non-intuitively, is actually easier to sympathize with, or at least pity.

TheBobBrom If people consider him a hero, then he's a hero to them. As it's a subjective matter. Having said that, the movie 'The Dark Knight' takes the correct approach IMO. You shouldn't consider him as a 'hero', rather just a 'vigilante' who fights for 'good' being a 'protector' to reduce crime.

This aged so well...and to think, I was on Hank's side the last time! How things change

Caroline Amour I dislike some depictions of Batman. You're right that Batman is a symbol, but sometimes that symbol means some pretty ridiculous things.

KingZeal But he's batman. I just.. I... No... You just... It's like he's describing Iron Man instead of Batman!

Nope. Batman has been interpreted by a lot of writers in a lot of dumb ways.

I can't really say something or i'm gonna start ranting about this like a dc fanboy instead of normal fangirl... (DC and Marvel fanboys are so hardcore)

Caroline Amour Nothing wrong with being a fangirl. Part of being a fan is just knowing that your character can sometimes be used for some stupid crap. I suggest watching this AT4W: All-Star Batman and Robin #1-2 or this: Linkara pl - Batman: Fortunate Son

***** I hate to break it to you, but *you* have shitloads of money too when compared to the vast majority of people on the planet. When was the last time you dug a well in the Sudan?

If you own a flotation device and pass someone drowning in a lake, you have a moral obligation to throw it in the water. Failure to do so may not be illegal, but it sure is immoral. If you are obscenely wealthy, to a degree that even donating great sums of money will still leave you obscenely wealthy, then your money is a flotation device for thousands of people, and you are morally obligated to help.

Moral obligation is self interest. Nice guys finish first.

NO BUT YOU ARE

A3roboy That's an disingenuous comparision, as yes... You and I are relatively much richer then the people in Sudan, but we can't possibly give as large of a percentage to charity and still live a decent life that a billionaire could. Say if I gave 50% of everything I earn to charity, I would soon be a charity case myself. But if someone super rich gave 50% or even more, they could go on living the super rich life JUST as before. Money loses utility the more you have, as unless you go into utter vanity projects (literal gold cars or whatever) you rather soon run out of stuff to buy and use it for. I give as much as I can, which is not a large percentage of my income, but I NEED the rest of it to live a normal western life. Bill Gates gave away like 90% of his wealth and still have more then he probably ever needs left. Presumably Batman (and Tony Stark) would be able to do the same. Now to go back to Batman, in canon he actually totally does that. It just doesn't actually help, cause if Gotham were actually fixed, there would be no more Batman stories.

@OverTheEdgeGamer No u.

What is Batman's long term plan for dealing with crime?! Batman needs to be more Proactive!!

@@JohnSmith-sy6zm He is.

@@ginge641 Long term plan????

@@JohnSmith-sy6zm Uplift Gotham via socioeconomic programs designed to reduce levels of relative poverty, thereby reducing crime. Become an enduring symbol of fear for the criminal element of Gotham. Invest in better prison and asylum facilities to keep the dangerous locked away and rehabilitate the redeemable.

I don't think Frank Miller even knows that altruism exists.

Gabriel Munn i dont even think frank miller knows what character development is

i'd be curious to know exactly what villains from either marvel or DC he thinks are better.

that hit me funny too.

he needs to brush up on batman comic knowledge in general. All his points are defused in the comics.

Cap. Orange Soghda McGuffiepans we should keep in mind that he is mainly going off of the movies. so in his defense, alot of what he said is legit. ofcourse if we all wanted to we could find tons of comic sources to disprove his argument but that is not what is important. to me this video is trying to make us look at the hero we addore objetively. if he has all this money why doenst he start with the schools and poor neigborhoods and help them out directly instead of fighting crime. then when we realize that we see that if that is something batman can do, its something that can be done in the real world as well since batmans only real power is his wealth, we should be looking at our own gorvement, community leaders, and ourselves try to use the wealth we have to make and build a better world. for us all

tonio14 Except, Batman does give to the schools and invests in community renewal. He just happens to do those things in addition to his late-night vigilantism. He's a person who works to both improve the system and to protect it on a personal level.

I dont want to argue all your points, but i do really believe that fiction represents reality and our real-life values. Of course fiction is, well fictious and a lot is completely made up but there always is some core based in reality and most pieces of literature (or movies, whatever, just fiction in general) depict the values and beliefs of that time period pretty well

Pretty sure that a culture's stories represent that cultures values. I mean, it'd be extremely hard to believe that a culture would produce volume upon volume of stories detailing virtuous and grace and etc, yet also be indifferent to the meaning of those stories.

This pretty much, would Batman be as popular if he did the things John described? Not at all.

I also love Batman. However, of course he has everything to do with what we value as people. He saves lives and acts as a paragon of virtue. You're right when you say that a value of violent entertainment doesn't mean that you value violence, but it certainly means that you relate to it, crave it, and ultimately condone it. We'd all like peace, but recognize that violence has its place, in policy *and* entertainment.

I don't think most of us are meant to aspire being Batman. Robin, Nightwing, Batgirl? Probably, because they are in it genuinely because they want to help. Batman is a psychopath and is presented as such in all but the most light-hearted children's series. I think John fundamentally misunderstands Batman: He's a cool guy much in the same way Walter White is. A badass, no-nonsense, incredibly focused man, but ultimately a very flawed and broken one as well. Even then, as other have mentioned, Wayne Enterprises has done a ton of philanthropic work to help Gotham, it's just fell flat because you CANNOT fix a fundamentally corrupt society by throwing money at it, not while the bad guys hold such immense power over the morals of society.

I could buy more that Batman was a cautionary tale if, more often than not, the narrative didn't go out of its way to make him look right or to imply that he is the only one that can save the day.

KingZeal Blame Frank Miller for that, he's the king of making Batman look like the only competant person in the room compared to his fellow heroes and the police/ government.

lightanddarklove Oh I'm aware. But, it's so common now that he's hardly the only one to blame.

103 words from 2k I feel like this was John's plan all along. but seriously, no superhero in the history of comic books is as dedicated and hard working as Batman.

***** this was so well written, great job man!

I hope he does read this. I think after doing so John just might like Batman.

Read this John!!! Read it now!

Best comment ever... All your points were clear.

And yet Gotham is still a poor crappy place made up of low income people and very rich people.

Silverizael Not by the third Batman movie

Nikifuj908 Isn't the Nolan trilogy only a trilogy? Plus Comics would be considered the main canon storyline.

In truth, Gotham is the way it is because Bruce Wayne is greedy. There are so many people he could help with his money and resources but instead he devotes it all to his own selfish needs. True, Batman does save people from time to time but it is a secondary result to his true reason for being Batman. Vengeance. Bruce Wayne wants to be Batman so he can hurt the people that hurt him. But he can’t do that (many stories have been written of the killer the Waynes being either unknown or already dead) so he beats up on substitutes, briefly eliminating the pain of his parents’ deaths with every punch. In truth, Batman wants Gotham to be a crime filled cesspool. He needs it to be a haven for criminal activity. Because if there is no crime in Gotham then there is no need for a Batman. And without a Batman you are left with a sad lonely boy with too much time and money on his hands.

@@JohnSmith-sy6zm wow you really just repeated your comment. Way to make yourself credible and not definitely a troll.

Also Batman does destroy bridges and stuff Bruce Wayne tends to pick up the tab (which is great for PR)

the problem is he is wrong about things so people only pay attention to that batman donates lots of money and does what he can to help so batman does somewhat do that

Whenever you say you "hate" something, you're going to get hate in return.

heatwave It's true, but I never said that I hated Batman. I just said that John made some good points.

Audrey Plouffe but he didn't, he was wrong, Bruce wayne funds a lot of the city and donates hundreds of millions

***** He made good points in my opinion. And that is the one that matters to me personally. If he didn't make good points in your opinion you are perfectly free to have that opinion.

...Justice League? Or are we just not counting that?

In defense of John 1. Very very little crime is actually caused by sociopaths. 1.2% present signs of sociopathy, but only a fraction of these are 'criminal' sociopaths, who engage in violent or abusive behaviour for kicks. Most socially integrate as that is the more logical thing to do (citation: Flipnosis, K. Dutton). 2. Sociologists would argue that feelings of safety, connectedness, and productivity/worth would be what should be focused on to reduce crime (or improving social and personal capital, whichever, there are many ways to phrase the basic argument). 3. I didn't notice.

I agree, and have had the Batman vs Ironman argument countless times; I view it as Batman has no real power (He's just a mega-rich guy with a cool car), but Ironman built a suit which has the ability to fly and give him super strength. Thoughts?

Bruce Wayne funding law enforcement (rather than his DIY vigilante approach) is problematic because of widespread corruption. He (sort of) tried to do it properly (albeit in a half-assed way) in one of the movies by approaching a mob boss and learnt pretty quickly that if he openly tries to take down the 'forces of evil' then he'll most likely be killed on the street. Essentially anything he does in terms of funding public causes, if it's not in the best interests of the mob bosses and baddies, could lead to a price on his head. Hence why he goes to such lengths to just pretend to be a regular douche-bag billionaire when wearing his Bruce Wayne costume.

John, I don't think you should be using the Batman movies as a source because they're not canon. In the graphic novels Batman has done constructive things for Gotham. He's just a really old superheroe where things like Climate change didn't exist.

No he didn't. He just missed a lot of things

+Limelightmoon Its funny how he doesn't tell about the charities that is funded by him nor the points of fighting the villains that have their talons deep in Gotham, or why he doesn't just kill them. So many things left unsaid, but even with that on the table... he isn't a fan of batman and clearly has a bias against him.

malik fisher or John isn't a fan of batman and THEREFORE has no bias-- unlike the batman fans that worship him ;)

Sounds like somebody's butthurt about this. The title "I kind of hate batman." means he has a stance against the idea of batman. Please think before you speak.

malik fisher if anyone's butthurt it's you lol.I'm only restating your comment

Let's put good comments on top, shall we?

His opinion isn't the issue. It's the fact that his opinion is based on nearly entirely false premises. Almost all of the points he makes about Batman are untrue.

unless its in a hollywood movie or coloring book, its not cannon in the eyes of Greens

KaijinDV it is cannon because it is in both of those

KaijinDV have you seen tasm/tasm2? its canon

selinesbeau To be fair...a lot of the Spider-Man comics suck worse than any of the movies. Even Emo Parker.

I believe its currently cannon that he has biological web shooters in the comics (I may be wrong) but I think the bigger question is why doesn't he ever at any point give the designs for those web shooters to the police or the army because it could cut accidental shootings by the police to practically zero.

Well, maybe not the Batman should be funding the police argument, but man his other points are amazing. I regret that when the video first came out I was so against it simply because he got some Batman lore wrong. Still think we are all Bat people though.

I’m glad I’m not the only one surfing their way through old Vlogbrothers videos in this quarantine. But on a serious note, better (or at least different) solutions don’t seem to be a matter of imagination. They’re a matter of resources and power.

Right?? Especially the last minute of the video I'm like "...Batman or cops? Is he talking about Batman or cops?" (yeah, except the funding of the cops argument, that didn't age well but now we know better)

this is exactly it. the argument that batman should put all of his money towards charity instead of spending so much being batman is so tired, worn, and just wrong.

Ives Cupino How do you know charity would do any better than Batman? John and Hank took in over $860,000 in last year's Project 4 Awesome. How much of that did they actually spend helping people? And by people, I don't mean funding The Fault in Our Stars movie. Or helicopter rides with Bill Gates looking down on the poor, sick Africans.

um, I'm not sure you understood my comment or I understood yours. I'm not defending John & Hank at all. what I was agreeing with is that bruce does both extensively; help gotham as a philanthropist AND fight crime as batman.

***** Wow...this is a crazy thread. We didn't pay anything to make the TFiOS movie because we didn't make the TFiOS movie. Also, it cost waaay more than 12,000 to make. Movies cost millions of dollars to make...even cheap ones. But we didn't make that movie (nor did we make any money off that movie.) We also didn't spend any money visiting Ethiopia...that was paid for by the Bill and Melinda Gates foundation, which is basically just a name for "All the money that Bill Gates used to have and is now administered by a foundation." But, yes, all of the money from the P4A went to charities. And yes, the Waynes did great things before they died...but Bruce didn't really pick up that particular torch. Of course, one can understand why. Depending on what universe we're in, Bruce Wayne is a pretty sick, sad dude...I don't know that John knows a lot about him, but the popular mythology which is understood and believed by pretty much everyone in our culture is what John is getting at...that somehow that sick, sad worldview has its advantages. That Bruce, in ruining his life for vengeance and vigilanteism is somehow in the right...that as long as his values "right" he can forge his anger into action and don't we all wish that Batman really was real...or better yet that WE were Batman, so we could forge the world into what we know it should be. That's a creepy vision...and it's a creepy worldview to submit to, even if it's easy to do so.

***** But what about after "No man's land", where Wayne Industries basically reconstructed Gotham?? Or in DK Strikes back, when he basically started the people's revolution? And I'm pretty sure every time Bruce gets mentioned is when he is doing some kind of philanthropic deed, even i f it's just for covering the batman thing. Other that that, I wouldn't argue against the creepy vision... but Bruce gets some things done...

Gotham police is an absolute joke.....do your fucking homework please. Getting sick of you dumbasses underestimating Batman's achievements.

The Justice League.

The only reason why the police are a joke is because the writers want them to be. Oh and Daniel, what did those charity balls ever do except be a means for Batman to show off how superior he thinks he is?

Honestly this argument brings up an issue I didn't consider before... Why does Bruce even HAVE a secret identity? He's a fricking millionaire, he's not going to fly under the radar just because the criminals don't know he's Batman. He has no superpowers so he has no risk of being dissected or extensively studied. He has a very small network of allies and all of them work in crime and crime fighting already, so he has no innocent civilians friends he doesn't want targeted. Heck I think if he gave most of his money to the law, they'd even let him wear his bat costume while joining the rank and file officers.

Kaitlyn McCaffrey *billionaire.

In a universe where super villains exist, there would actually be a concrete argument for the death penalty.

Silverizael Batman will not break his one rule, so that's the end of that for him

clearlyaspy Because he needs the villains alive for his own gratification. If he actually got rid of them all, there would be no more need for Batman and he can't handle that.

Silverizael How dare you! Batman's integrity is truly incorruptible. Batman does not care about his own gratification. He doesn't care if everyone hates him or want him killed. He only cares about what is right. He does not kill because life is sacred, and vilans should live the rest of their lives in regret, knowing that batman out them behind bars

I actually think Batman is more interesting because of the faults stated not it spite of it

+Lucky Egg And he says he has an affinity for bats... when he was actually terrified by them

yes that is true John should look in to that.

+Jeeto Affinity: "Similarity of characteristics suggesting a relationship, especially a resemblance in structure between animals, plants, or languages."

+Neha Dabhi I think he just watched Superman v Batman

which is funny because the whole point of Batman's disdain to crimminals is because his billionaire parents were trying to fix the city and look at what happened.

Next thing you'll say Santa is not real?! What sorcery is this?!

He's a writer. You can't possibly expect you to be able to tell him that just because something isn't "real" it lacks importance.

It's not sorcery. It's Satanism, Duh.

This comment made my day

Confirmed that Half Life 3 paid me to make this video. -John

And a half dozen sidekicks and other allies in Gotham. That reminds me, I need to go watch episode 3 now.

Also, he pours major funding into the GCPD as well as many other charities (ie. Leslie's clinic in Crime Alley).

also Batman Incorporated.

Sam T Yeah, this is exactly how I feel about it. It's really just two different ways of looking at the character. John is definitely taking the Holden Caulfield approach (which is why so many people are pissed off), while Hank is taking more of the english teacher approach. Personally I find John's interpretation to be more compelling, but from what I've heard in the comments, Batman actually does run some charities in the comic books, just not in the movies. So I guess I'm back to square one, feeling like both brothers are getting part of the picture.

Sam T Or you could be ignoring the hugely philanthropic Bruce Wayne half of Batman. He does all the things John criticizes him for ignoring or not doing.

I totally agree too and it's little strange to me that this comment doesn't have nearly as many likes as i would expect.

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Are you talking only about Batman or reality or both?

Collaborative efforts don't more often than not fail. Collaboration is a part of life, every day. Every industry, every sport, every discovery was made by people working together. My interpretation of John's words is that Batman lives in some magical world where one man can build a cave headquarters, FBI-grade computer, and various vehicles and maintain, clean, and inspect them without outside aid while one of those two men still has time to run a double life and beat up criminals.

KingZeal It's socialism/collectivism 'lite'. I don't blame him for his subtle perpetuation of the destructive, dangerous, dumb idea. He's a victim of childhood propaganda that was reinforced by his profession. (His brother seems to be more invested in the church of Climatology and subsequently the near worship of the state.) Both John and his brother pay forward the viewpoint by spinning their perspectives, like cotton candy, in to light, fluffy, fun, unhealthy, ultimately destructive fodder for socialist feminists (but I repeat myself), climatologists (members of the church), communists in denial, and the victims of the public school system. (Again, I apologize if anyone finds this offensive. It's not meant to be an insult. It's meant to wake you up.)

Kornqueen1 I don't know how to answer this question. Reread my comment/s, take a red pill, and call me in the morning.

KingZeal That's not a counterargument. That's an incorrect cliche and an insult.

yes, I know I mispelled some words and made gramatical errors on this. I would feel slightly embarrased about this but it seems proper english and grammar doesn't really matter on the Internet anymore, at least not as much as it used to, which was never too much to begin with, maybe you could make a topic on this subject. That would be cool and well apreciated. Thanks! (If you make it, and for reading, If you did) Sincerely,(Again) Liam Michael Hennessey, or "Mail" as I am commonly called (It's my name Backwards).

Awesome reply man, this gives a tonne of info and doesn't call anyone an idiot for having an opinion. I must say that i would like to strive to be like you man.

The Captain Of Rage Thanks Captin of Rage. I try to retain a shadow of a cool collected demeanor on the internet.

Liam M. Hennessey This is also the way it was in the TV show, and in the Amazing Spiderman films. The only incarnation to _not_ get this right - to give Spidey web-slinging *powers* - is the old film trilogy with Tobey Maguire.

Actually the animated show did indeed use the web slinger. I vaguely remember at least one episode where it becomes an issue, though admittedly most of the time it was not. Here's an image I could find of it: img3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20120719030459/spiderman/images/0/0a/Web-shooter-300x188.png As for the games, at least some games required you to collect cartridges for his slinger. www.mobygames.com/game/windows/spider-man-/reviews/reviewerId,177261/ I believe the games based on the most recent movies are also doing this. As far as I'm aware, the only major Spidey IP to give him web powers are the previous trilogy of films.

There's this thing where people do critical analysis of a text/film/work of art. It doesn't get heated because the character is real, it gets heated because the story is real and because deriving meaning from stories is an essential part of cognizant existence. Batman, Jay Gatsby, and Hamlet don't have to be real for their stories to mean something or for it to be important to make well informed statements about them.

He's real to me.

perfectworldbeholder You've never read TFIOS didn't you? John's own author note: "This book is a work of fiction. I made it up. Neither novels nor their readers benefit from attempts to divine whether any facts hide inside a story. Such efforts attack the very idea that made-up stories can matter, which is sort of the foundational assumption of our species. I appreciate your cooperation in this matter." In other words, John believes that fiction matters. And Batman matters to alot of people, he is one of the greatest modern icons of fiction.

In a sense he's more real than you are, perfectworldbeholder. I know more about his character, and life story than i do of yours. Yet it would be completely idiotic to call you fictional, but the truth is you are more fictional than Batman.

Completely agree. Batman is a symbol, and its we who decide what that symbol means and what it inspires. I love the joker, even more so than batman; he is clearly not the best person in the world but its again a question of what you take out of his character or what he stands for.

+ScienceAndStuff If it was me I'd also kill the Joker. But objectively I think comics aren't supposed to be like that, they're supposed to be more philosophical (because who would read comic if it was realistic when you can just look at the world). I think the idea is that if the Joker is right - if it was BATMAN who proved him right - then humans are "more chaotic than orderly inside" and it raises the question if humans are worth saving at all. Comics, in my opinion, are more about the clash of ideas than the clash of individuals, about which ideas are worth keeping and which are not, rather than which individuals are worth saving. Furthermore, the ideas have to be consistent: if Batman can reserve the rights to kill Joker, then Superman, judging by his powers, should just become a dictator and control the world, rid it of crimes and calamities and conflicts (which is exactly what happens in Injustice: Gods Among Us, which imo didn't turn out too well). P.s. As far as I know Batman uses non-lethal weapons and is rarely depicted to kill anyone if any.

Early joker was totally killed several times only to be revealed to have survived somehow next time he shows up.

Just because you think Batman is two-dimensional which is a joke, doesn't mean he is a lackluster hero....that doesn't even begin to make rational sense. He deals with more bad guys and on a more regular basis than any other DC hero. I mean WOW. Do some homework and get your fucking facts straight before being so ridiculous.

First of all you don't have to be quite so aggressive. And second I'm more than happy to admit I'm not as familiar with Batman as some other heroes. But I'm not even arguing whether Batman should be loved. I understand that many people love him and I'm totally okay with that. I love that people can love Batman. Most of my comment was actually defending him! I didn't mean to upset Batman fans at all.

Batman is quite possible the least 2-dimensional comic book hero there is.

Okay, I'm going to remove the first two sentences of my original comment because I find that the two whole other paragraphs are much more important, but aren't getting read because people are upset that I don't like the same superhero as them. I'm sorry to those who have gotten upset, and yes I do admit (again) that I have not looked into Batman as much as I have other heroes.

It's not hard to argue that Batman as an(illegal) vigilante beating up mentally handicapped and poor people while tearing up the streets of Gotham with his fancy gear is NOT at all comparably good to what Bruce Wayne could spend those billions on in creating jobs, funding the actual police force, education system and mental health facilities.

Depends on which comics you read. The bastardized Ultimates series screwed the pooch on where his webs came from, mainly because they got tired of the overused plot device of "Oh no, I'm in real trouble, my web shooters are almost empty!". Then again, his other powers occasionally end up being a bit troublesome, as if I recall one graphic novel had him suddenly unable to turn off his spider sense, to the point that he never slept, couldn't eat, and basically had a mental breakdown.

I was going to post this myself, But thought i should check to make sure no one else already brought it up... Ya beat me to it lol. But yes, Spider-man *can* decide to stop shooting webs because his webblasters are technology that he invented just for himself to use (like the bat mobile) Ya should of gone with wall crawling, John. I hope you apologize in your next video for this horrid mistake! (just kidding... kind of)

TacComControl uhhh, no, both Ultimate Spider-Men (Peter Parker and Miles Morales) have mechanical webshooters created by Peter based on his late father's unfinished formula for web fluid.

gah I am so bad at comics PROBABLY shouldn't've stuck my neck out on this one. ;) -John

Have a cookie!

That must be tough for you!

I hope we can remain friends, Akilah, through this difficult time as our worldviews collide. -John

***** You did forget that in the last Batman movie, there was a reactor that would have provided Gotham clean energy? :)

***** idk man you called the joker a bad villan ...smh you think you know someone

I don't like batman either ._.

And I haven't even gotten to the underground criminal organisations and Lex Luthor's meddling.

yeah bruce wayne is doing charity and funding schools all the time

I really hope John sees this comment lol

That doesn't make his statements any less true.

Lorisa214 It does. He makes a big point of saying that Batman uses a ton of cash on his Batmobile instead of helping the poor. He does both, because he has an infinite amount of money. A big part of Batman lore is that his father spent an equally arbitrary amount of money on helping Gotham, and it was meaningless. Part of what spurred Batman to take on the mantle. That and his fragmented psyche.

Most of the comments I've seen are completely constructive and are just providing John with accurate information. As for the hateful comments, it's very difficult to not have them when you make a video about a beloved superhero and then go on to be misinformed and insult the character.

IsisVlogs I guess we must be seeing different comments because most of the ones that I've been seeing bring up stuff like John's books, TFiOS in general, and even his activity on social media for some reason. And I understand that it's hard to avoid hateful comments, especially on a video like this. I guess I was just being nostalgic for the old days of Vlogbrothers where hate comments were almost nonexistent, no matter the video's subject.

They can. Just not when its about Batman.

Are you implying all Americans have predilections for young boys?. There is also the problem of batmans hatred of guns.....

+Lucy Hunt um just like this guy your wrong, for all america spends on its military tot police the world when nobody asked them to, they give tons of money in aid to its own citizens and countries abroad.

+Exton Jonas Tons and tons of aid. The amount of money America spends on aid absolutely _dwarfs_ military spending. It's fricking insane how much America, both the government and the people, spend on helping countries abroad.

+buca117 Bullshit!!! I just looked it up, in 2014 US spending on military was 3.6% of GDP whereas aid was less than 1%. So the US spends more than 3 times as much on military than it does on aid.

than why is he not raciste ?

*depends on version

D Birt thegmanofEAP either way he totally CAN stop shooting webs...they dont like overload from inactivity causing him to have to discharge the webs or die...he simply doesnt shoot them

D Birt Well, sure. Also, depending on the version, John is COMPLETELY wrong about Batman. Bruce gives MILLIONS to Gotham, and he doesn't have a fixation with bats. They're an inspiration.

thegmanofEAP not really an inspiration more like a product used as a symbol of fear

Peter Benson When Spider-Man has organic webs, I guess he'll start having web dreams if he doesn't shoot his webs once in a while,

Yes. Who the hell is Cinema Sins?

I guess I see how john is sort of doing an everything wrong with Batman but his rant is so different the two barely seem related.

+JC Grand And Wayne only becomes Batman when he realizes the only way to fight corruption is by putting on a mask and building some tools. :)

Maybe in the live action movies, but in the comics being a philanthropist is a big part of his character. It's also a part, though more minor, in the animated adaptations.

That might be the case on the US, but there are lots of places in the world where crime is bigger than the law enforcement agencies, moves more money than the government, causes a lot of deaths, economic losses and collateral/direct damage to innocent people and their possessions. We could use a Batman around here.

Gerardo García Méndez Mexico (just going off the top of my head) would be like heaven for Batman. So many faces to smash.

I think villains like the Joker and all the rest really in the Batman universe are a good argument for the death penalty. I'm against it in the real world, but that's because people like that don't exist.

Silverizael But the sad part is, people like that do exist. The thing about the Joker is that he can literally be anyone. That's why you never learn his actual name.

Its also worth considering that Gotham is typically portrayed as extremely corrupt. In many books Commissioner Gordon is treated as one of the only honest cops and giving money to corrupt systems doesn't generally fix things.

andscifi But that's exactly the problem. Batman's brand of justice is a quick-fix "desperate times call for desperate measures" type of justice. Batman, eventually, needs to not be necessary or even disappear entirely. Gotham being a cesspool of irredeemable psychos and corrupt cops means that Batman's justice isn't working if it isn't fixing that cesspool.

To be fair, I was trying to make a point about the way we imagine individuals as powerful not about, like, Batman. But yes you're right! Also I should've talked about the Justice League because that's a great example of how teams accomplish more than people. -John

***** and yet you failed to do so, that makes me, with all due respect for the message you tried to convey, wonder why i should have watched this video?

***** in fairness he did also make that generator to give free energy to Gotham... which was turned into a bomb. Maybe they should call him 'Bad Luck Bruce' instead?

Pieter Roefs Because we love the Green Brothers, and the videos are always entertaining regardless of the message. Although for the most part, their ideals are very agreeable. Down with helping people!

I dunno man, my respect for Justice League kinda fell apart when they started messing in wars which shouldn't concern them. Bruce's parents' deaths don't excuse him for being a vigilante. The charity foundation (for orphans, I believe?) is about Batman's only redeeming action.

+Katelyn Dorry Suicide Squad?

hanna and other annoying things Good enough,

yes me to you should read the comic the killing joke it is awesome.

Hon... No, you should check out some awesome, make-you-piss-your-pants batman awesomeness without the joker such as Batman Eternal

I wonder how much better off Gotham would be if Batman just killed the Joker after the second time he started trying to do mass murder?

when you type in lot with many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, 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many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many "o"s it looks like loot I might have gone overboard on the manys

Cesar Flores what the heck?

Cesar Flores its cool, i really like it!

+

Crime is not actually caused by Evil... (also singing)

Well said

I agree, I'm not sure what the point is to not like a piece of fiction because it is not realistic the issues and situations of the real world. If he is critiquing the role model of batman that would have to imply that there are people in similar situations as batman when there really are not. Just does not seem like a reasonable critique for some fiction that was made long before most of us were even born.

And when they say Black Widow is "lame" because she doesn't have powers. She has all the powers batman has, plus probably better intelligence, more training, and she does it without blowing up a few trains in the process and making it painfully clear to the public that superheroes are a danger to the public.

+Emily Black are you talking about the Black Widow like the one in the avengers....cause she is the lamest superhero ever...her and the archer guy. i ask myself wtf are they doing there in a super hero movie. i mean they might as well just join the normal police.

THE16THPHANTOM Again, literally the same powers as batman. and now you have subjected yourself to the force that is my defense of Clint and Natasha. They work for SHIELD, prior to the Winter Soldier, and have a skill set matching the occupation. Being specialists, they have extremely high intellects and a multitude of high level abilites in various skill sets, as well as the ability to aquire new skill sets with ease. They must operate near peak human conditions while still blending in with their enviroment. The Black Widow was trained in the Red Room, a facility designed to train spies, most noteably the Black Widow program, which trained young girls. The KGB and SHIELD both believed her to be the most dangerous agent to come out of the red room. She is a world level acrobat, martial artist, and marksman. She can hack into most computer systems without setting off any alarms or firewalls and can speak at least ten languages fluently. Her intellect puts her on par with Steve Rogers and Hawkeye, and she is widely known as a master interrogator and assassin. She serves as the measuring stick for many of SHIELDs prototypes, for example, Fury commented that he created a lie detector that he HOPED she could not decieve. Hawkeye is an expert marksman, able to fire an arrow at a chitauri and shoot it down without looking. His skills were honed in the circus, where he preformed as a sharp shooter. He was sent after the Black Widow, who as previously stated is extremely dangerous in of herself. He is an expert pilot and gymnast. He has been shown to be capable of holding his own against the Black Widow in hand to hand combat, which speaks for itself, and is an expert tactician. He speaks Itallian and English fluently and does all of this despite being 80% deaf. (at least in the comics.) Now tell me that they would serve better in the police force. I'm listening.

+Emily Black wow, i take what i said back but they really look like shadows compared to the rest in the avengers movies, like they are just there because they have cool names and thats it.

THE16THPHANTOM they did play pretty vital roles in the avengers movie, too. Loki wouldn't have gotten nearly as far as he did without hawkeye and and widow was able to interrogate loki, the God of tricks and mischief, and was the one to shut the portal.

The other person pretty much summed it up perfectly, but I would like to add this: it's not like the only thing John does for a living is make RU-vid videos. In fact, I'm pretty sure that's not even his main source of income (can't say for sure though)

I'm pretty sure John and Hank dont make any money off of youtube videos directly, i think they said that when they discussed starting to use preroll ads. Sure they do make money off things related to youtube, but as far as i know not the actual videos.

John Green has given more money to charity than Bruce Wayne has. Even considering that Bruce Wayne is fictional and that he cannot give _actual_ dollars to _actual_ charity; Bruce Wayne also has chosen not to give _fictional_ dollars to _fictional_ charity. The charities he does eventually give to are historic preservation trusts (in the Batman Beyond universe) that are used to self-interestedly preserve the theater where his parents were killed. Bruce Wayne is a selfish prick. :/

You do realize he's a fictional character, right? I don't think he needs you to defend him :)

I'm glad you took time out of your day to watch a video (which you knew what it was about because of the title) to post a pointless comment which is unnecessarily snarky and rude. Great work, my day got so much better when I read it and so did the world.

Not only did he invest, but he converted his entire mansion into a home for orphaned and at risk youth

You are insane too. Let's not pretend Superman is flawless in the sane department.

This is only true of some interpretations of Batman. In particular this sounds very much like Frank Miller's version, which is pretty much unique to Frank Miller. Most versions of Batman are quite sane, sometimes to the point where Batman is used as a counterpoint against some particularly insane villain (like he is in The Killing Joke).

Batman may be insane with vengeance, but does that mean he's wrong?

Ut00bsux0rz But he *is* Bruce Wayne. His parents' death made him grew too fast but it's still him. He's also smart enough to acknowledge Lex Luthor's fear of Superman turning against humans.

lol?

Lol? Are you joking?

I mean if I need to explain to you what's wrong with your statement then it's obvious you didn't pay that much attention to the comics the movies any of the or like anything in the past 20 years batman is a pop culture icon. And if you are trolling it's hilarious hence the laugh

Sophia Gaming​ sorry thought you were the op but my point is I'm not sure if this guy is a troll or stupid as they are in fact the same person

Bruce Wayne can't be batman; he is awake all day and batman only works at night. WHEN DOES HE SLEEP!? (and yes I'm trolling)

He actually misses a lot of information.

Nope. -Batman DOES give to charity (Thomas wayne foundation, Martha Wayne foundation...) -He doesn´t work alone (justic league, robin, nightwing, oracle, commissioner gordon ect.) -He wanted Harvey Dent to do his job of cleaning up the streets by using law and justice for him, but Dent failed, hence two-face -He retired, Gotham got worse, he had to come back, eventhough he didn´t want to (no "vigilantic ambitions") -Batmans villains are THE BEST. end of discussion. -Crime and evil people existed before batman was batman. He vowed to stop it/them. -He has no affinity for bats, quite the opposite actually.

Konsti SomethingMore Thank you. I just stare at the screen with disbelief for 10 minutes at people who think they are so intelligent that others with opposing opinions are beneath them. Then decide not to comment because I assume they must be trolling. But you've summed it up perfectly. +AckAck Your stupidity amazes me. It really does.

Teej Coile Thank you, very nice of you to say that. :D

Teej Coile Whilst the other guy (Konsti) did pring up a lot of good points, I have to agree with the original poster that most of the comments in the comments section just bring up points that are either moot, or already adressed/debunked by John. There are some that bring up good points, but in general, it is a fair amount of stupidity.

Well, it is revealed in Civil War that Tony Stark has samples of the other Avengers' DNA, which allowed him to make a Thor clone. I am a Marvel fan, but I am truly not sure if that makes him any less creepy than Batman.

With the amount of times that Superman, Wonder Woman and the rest of the justice league heroes have become villains or have been controlled by villains it would be completely negligent for there not be some plan to deal them. The real problem is that Batman should have made sure that everyone knew about the plan just in case when superman inevitably is given red kryptonite he kills Batman first.

superman can benchpress planets and has a habit of getting mind controlled. It would be dumb NOT to have a way to take him down

I'd say its smart. the other super hero's are effectively Gods .and if a God gets pissed of at a bunch of ants watch out..WE being those ants. there is a old saying< "I only trust them as fair as you can throw them" He is only thinking of the "what if" and being prepared for it

Diana Peña Why would it be a problem if Superman went out to buy some cosmetics for Lois? Is that really something Batman needs a plan to take him down for?

In knightfall it kinda suggests the cave was already there and he just developed it and tweaked it over time. A bit like in batman begins I guess. Hopefully someone else knows a better origin than that cause it bothers me too

Well, he is very very rich so he could pay people to keep things quiet, and also, his company has TONS of stuff going on in it that is totally secret

lol ''he has only seen the movies and does'nt know the comics oh the ignorance´´ we are all ignorant we live in a stated of almost complete darkness of information not knowing anything that is beyond our arms length as we stretch them into the darkness .like some people don't know how electromagnatic induction works to change the voltage on a transformer or they don't know the name of all the touhou character. see for example this conversation i do not know what is your favorite color, the level of your education ect

marlonyo My point is that he is someone who has a lot of power when talking to people aka Nerdfighteria. Most of the things (important/news) in which he gives his opinion are topics that a lot of us are uninformed or have little knowledge so his opinion weighs in significantly on how a lot of people think on said topic. What if he actually doesn't know what he is talking about, just like he proved today in this video, don't you think that is a little bit troublesome? at least to me, it is. Btw I love john's videos, and i think he is a great person, it's just something that I thought today watching this.

Erick Chicas the thing is, he's just giving his opinion. he didn't say we shouldn't like batman, he just said he doesn't and said why. I don't see what all the fuss is about. I liked the video.

Actually, it's pretty realistic and symbolic of the constant struggle we have in this frail human condition. The struggle to quell our personal demons is never over, and if we ever fail to try, then we've lost to the darkness.

Bri, that's like saying showering is pointless because you have to do it daily...

Why not shower once a week. Or like shoot them. And there will be less trouble...

Fantastic comment- made my day! (a day during which I was submerged by opinions and counter-opinions on literally dozens of subjects!)

people are upset that john covered batman and its obvious his knowledge of batsy and more importantly batsy's universe is lacking to comic book fans and that he(you know john the author) based his entirety of his opinion and basis of his argument on a non-canonical set of movies rather than the cannon(which if you arent a comic book fan essentialy cannon material means source material) (or at least the one time cannon) material

LegoGirl1990 no batman does donate/use his money (to a very far extent to make change in the extremly corrupt comics gotham) (even shown to an extent far beyond of what john says in the recent movies, which is very sadly what john bases his argument on) along with being batman to fix things that just money can't solve. By saying batman doesnt try to properly use his money he is showing his ignorance of batman. by saying batman doesnt is one of the many examples of how john shows he doesnt know very much about the character

LegoGirl1990 oh well i misinterpreted your tweet

You clearly know nothing, unless you are being sarcastic. Mr. Freeze came to be as an accident caused by a greedy and corrupt real-estate entrepenuear who had no assocation with the Wayne family. Joker was a criminal before Bats knew him. Catwoman was an orphan and Ra's is an international terriorist. One man can not be logically responsible for everything. Do some in-depth homework before posting non-sensical dogshit.

Vindicator73 tbh joker getting worse may or may not been his fault in muh's defence it's just not known by the joker for certain and never really mentioned by bats

Blaming others for the worlds problems is like, rule #1 of the internet, don't you know that people? It's never the criminals fault. It's always someone else. Batman in this case I guess?

You guys need to calm down, we're talking about a guy in tights who fights and clown, a penguin and a few other loonies alongside a crazy cat lady here. No need to be an ass about it.

Telling me I know nothing, correcting everything I said like an ill-tempered smartass as if it's that important and telling me i posted nonsensical dogshit. And you call yourself a Nerdfighter.

I take you've never read any Superman or Batman comics?

cyanmanta Sorry man, you need to actually read some comics before posting tripe you found off Huffington Post one day a year ago or wherever you got this nonsense.

Zach King So your opinion is invalid. Thanks for being honest.

Zach King Sure, but at least I'm correct and you're wrong.

Zach King You'd win that bet. I bet you talk out of your ass a lot.

If you actually read at least some comics and not just look at movies, you would know Batman has development some of his own tech and gear as well. Nothing more annoying than dumbasses who believe movies tell the whole story.

Vindicator73 He would be too much of a mary sue if the movie directly followed the comics. His skill creep has gotten absurd.

Vindicator73 Oh please.As much as i love Batman his "skills" are grossly over exaggerated jut like Superman's powers.He has MASTERED every damn formof martial art and every branch of human knowledge in the world in like what 10-15 years.That is so realistic.Wow Batman is such a badass. Plus the dark knight is helmed by comic book readers as the greatest representation of Batman which it's far from.OP is totally right.Morgan Freeman is the real Batman and when the story called for it,Batman magically fixes the autopilot in his plane.

Taylor Davies OK and now you've solidified and confirmed your status as a genuine nutjob. I will not honor your stupidity with any more responses.

Hallucinogen X Its comic books, genius, its supposed to be greatly exaggerated....so what the fuck is your point? If people found so much problem with it, none of these character would be as relevant and popular as they are....so get the fuck over it and get a life. And further more for what he unfortunately has to deal with in his hometown which is more criminal, and underworld activity than any other hero has to deal with.....Batman's accomplishments are not overrated, neither is his ingenuity as a self-made hero. Because the money he has will not magically get up and spend itself the right way.....he has to make the decisions to buy the right tech and get the right man or men to help organize it. So there is nothing to sniff at about any of that.....especially compared to being lucky enough to accidentally acquire super-powers like most of the other heroes.

Well that’s only partially true. In the MCU spider-man series and the ‘amazing spider-man’ series, they do use artificial web shooters, but in the original spider-man trilogy, the web string come naturally from holes in his wrist.

John Green is a bastion of knowledge actually.

Batman has been a pop culture icon for 75 years. You have to be REALLY old to not get Batman.

Spork4000 He's not even 40.

He isn't an old man, and if John Green doesn't know what he's talking about in a vlogbrothers video, the universe has flipped. Trust me, I think you're the one who doesn't know what they're talking about.

***** I agree john is wise, but he doesn't know everything, he is just human. People get the general concept of batman but don't know the small details of the batman universe.

That's all why Tony Stark is better. But Batman just keep tossing the same people in jail over and over after they do another murder spree. At what point is he going to understand that if you live in a universe where someone keeps breaking out of jail, the only fix is to kiil them?

Silverizael Batman found the Justice League, trained dozens of superheroes, and has saved the planet countless times. Tony and Bruce are Marvel DC parallels I'm a big comic book guy and honestly they bother done so much awesome long term great stuff that one isn't really better than the other their both just philanthropic gods

in the dkt where he based the entirety of his opinion you learn Wayne tech tries to build cheap energy Bruce donates to orphanages and that Bruce owns charities. The only time they come up though is when they are necessary for the plot though because whoever watchs a superhero movies to see successful charity balls instead of an escapist solution to crime is in the minority of the audience.

Jonathan Hughes The biggest one in Gotham. His mother founded a major orphanage and her ancestors (Arkham) made an asylum for insane (not evil) criminals. Bruce frequently donates hugely to a (corrupt) police force while building bridges and generally being a hopeful ambassador and public figure. I hate that John has to insult something he hasn't read. He wouldn't do it about a novel, so why disrespect an important and valuable comic series? He even said Iron Man is worse (even a blind squirrel finds a nut sometimes), so why is he trolling Batman when he's ignorant about the character who is growing close to a century old?

+Jonathan Hughes yes...and he can't fund the police stations because they're all corrupt...99% of gotham is corrupt so it does not make any sense to give them money sigh

In truth, Gotham is the way it is because Bruce Wayne is greedy. There are so many people he could help with his money and resources but instead he devotes it all to his own selfish needs. True, Batman does save people from time to time but it is a secondary result to his true reason for being Batman. Vengeance. Bruce Wayne wants to be Batman so he can hurt the people that hurt him. But he can’t do that (many stories have been written of the killer the Waynes being either unknown or already dead) so he beats up on substitutes, briefly eliminating the pain of his parents’ deaths with every punch. In truth, Batman wants Gotham to be a crime filled cesspool. He needs it to be a haven for criminal activity. Because if there is no crime in Gotham then there is no need for a Batman. And without a Batman you are left with a sad lonely boy with too much time and money on his hands.

@@JohnSmith-sy6zm whatever you're smoking, i want it.

the ranting about bad money spending was funny though

Couldn't agree more. Iron Man is the best because he tries to improve the world in any way he possibly can. Through Charity, Science and Butt-Kicking

a.) comics batman wasnt a war guy so the stopping war thing wouldnt really work as well with him. b.) wayne enterprises makes cheap food energy safe housing and advanced tech that can and does help the people of gotham

Given how many movies Marvel has made in the past few years, I'd say their villains have quite a bit of name recognition, even relatively obscure ones like Colonel Stryker.

venom, green goblin, umm yea thats all ive got ... kid buu? freeza?

Exactly, Batman has the most awesome, most known and again MOST AWESOME villains.

Osborne, Osborne Again, Doc Ock, Venom, Electro, Mysterio, Kingpin, Vulture, Sandman, Rhino, off the top of my head.

Fuzzy Greens Just from X-Men movies off the top of my head: Magneto, Mystique, Toad, Blob, Emma Frost, Apokalyspe, Lady Deathstrike, Sabertooth.

Well socialist don't like billionaires, unless everyone is a millionaire, I hope you got your answer.

@@shekharbhardwaj4766 I mean if everyone is a millionaire so there are no billionaires, is that why they don't hate them anymore? ( don't judge me for the bad joke, I am bored )

I'd agree on several points, but would counter that "philanthropist" isn't an either/or status. Whatever else he's doing for the city, batmobiles, bat planes, and shark-repellent bat sprays don't come cheap, and could be spent on better things than his adolescent fantasy that crime is best addressed through his (admittedly awesome) antics.

I don't think the point is that Spiderman can't stop shooting webs. It's that he isn't spending money on web-shooting rather than effective poverty-reduction plans. If Spiderman were spending millions on refills for his web cartiges, the same issue we have with Batman would apply to Spiderman as well. You are definitely correct about Bruce Wayne being a philanthropist (esp. in the comic books), of course.

it flip flops actually.

Actually both are Cannon, Marvel and DC both have many different "Cannons" they have them set on different Universes. It is actually one of the great thing about Comics is you can have slightly different takes on their mythos.

XD

I like you friend, you just said everything I was about to say

You know why *I* might not like batman? Because of cult like fans who elevate him as the AbSozluTE beSt hEro Evah