a lot of stuff is explained in the book and not in the movie unfortunately :/ for example, coryo was crying after sejanus died because he thought he was next to be hung and didn’t want to die, he didn’t even regret what he did or care about sejanus. without it being explained that scene makes it seem like something else i agree that they needed some kind of narration or something to explain his thoughts because a lot of scenes come off as him caring or being wishy washy when he’s not.
25:09 @@jaykay845 I think they could have done better. The books are dependent on the characters' thoughts and feelings. The movies, however, focus on what you can see if you were in the world with the character instead of a reader aware of their thoughts. It worked in the trilogy because the plot and action makes up for it. In this movie, however, the center is Snow's psyche and thoughts so it just doesn't work as well. Though I do appreciate how some people are confused at being attracted to Snow. I look at it in a way that if I were his peer, I only see what he does (which is scripted a lot to make his reputation flawless) and I WOULD admire him. However, as a reader who knows the rot inside, I do not. Non-readers who watched the movie were treated like Snow's peers who can only see the impressive stuff he does but not his thoughts. And to me, that's interesting because it's like Collins played with us as some sort of experiment to see if the facade really works. And it does 😅
"coryo was crying after sejanus died because he thought he was next to be hung and didn’t want to die, he didn’t even regret what he did or care about sejanus" Untrue, he did regret it and cried for Sejanus. It's literally stated in the book. He was also sorry for himself and tried to rationalize Sejanus' death as if he didn't have a choice, but it doesn't remove the fact that he was initially horrified of his actions.
Coryo and Lucy's relationship is all about questioning whether their love was real or if one of them was just using the other. The thing is, neither of them seems to have purely good intentions, which messes with their character development. This complexity was more aparent in the books, but still subtle as there was more room for details, but it's tough to convey in a movie. There are these little things in the books, like Coryo's inner thoughts about Lucy, that show how possessive he can be. It adds a lot to their relationship, but again it's hard to capture on screen. I also absolutely love your channel and your reactions, keep killing it wooo!
I also noticed one thing, both Coryo and Lucy want the same thing, for others to act in their own interests. But while Coryo was raised in an environment that taught control, Lucy was put in a place where all she could hope for was someone to trust. In a way, control and trust are much the same thing, but while control must be taken, trust can only be given.
@@r-giireactions2235 Another difference, is that trust is essential to all relationships, and not just in the romantic sense, but in all other platonic relationships, like friendships, business partners, family even. Trying to control someone, on the other hand, is a real destroyer of relationships.
This book reads like following Joe from You if that tells you anything about his journey. This story more so peels back the layers of his facade and what he does for power. When we meet Tigris after she got his shirt ready he’s wondering how much money she’d make for him if he sold her body
The way I read him in the book was that he had the ability to be empathetic but his natural instinct was geared towards self preservation due to the fighting to survive. His grandmother raised him to believe he was better than everyone else and that he would be the ruler of all rulers to panem and that he was entitled to anything he desired. Even with a natural good nature that is sure to leave a mark. The slow decline was less from the good to the bad but from the persona he portrayed publicly and had convinced himself he could be to the person he really was inside. In the end, he just has no choice but to acknowledge it and lean into it and to stop trying to justify his actions. He is who he is and once he stops trying to hold himself to the lower standards of regular people he can be the higher person he was born to be. Beyond reproach.
Yeah, because even in the book, I didn't read him as completely irredeemable, but as a guy trying to navigate the world around him in the way he thought would be to his best bennifit, the way many people do. I believe he could've turned good or could've turned bad depending on the circumstances, but within the corrupt world he was placed in, his best bennifit was to become corrupt also. Lucy Grey was his one chance to escape from that and possibly become a better person, but when things began to fall apart, he resorted to his dark side instead.
@@r-giireactions2235 💯. Mirrored by what she says at the end of the movie about constantly having to work to stay on the right side of the line. He eventually just crossed that line and never went back.
Honestly, the moment i read the book, I knew it was going to be incredibly difficult to adapt. The book relies heavily on the inner dialogue going on inside snow's head which is hard. You could do narration, but still would be able to do to the level needed. Also it's just a different structure than you see in a movie. The games are over and then you have like a whole part left that is slow paced and it's really hard to do. Honestly i think the movie did the best it could, i think some narration could of helped maybe add a journal or something that snow is writing to give an excuse to narrate his inner dialogue, but i could see that getting tiresome in a movie.
yes that is true but tom blyth did reallyyyy well on portraying his thoughts, it's like if i compare a scene both in the movie and the book, i can kinda tell what snow was thinking yknow?
Surprised this was a second channel reaction - Hunger Games is pretty big so thi k it would have done quite well on main :) Overall I enjoyed the movie and hope we get more HG based movies/shows!
I found it interesting that two HUGE mistakes by people wanting the games to end kept it alive and made them worse. The first was Highbottom (Peter Dinklage) giving Snow such a weak tribute that he would be driven extra hard to make her sympathetic to the audience. With a more capable tribute, especially a male one, he might not have tried quite so hard. The second were the rebels that bombed the arena. They turned a large, boring, and empty room into a vastly more dynamic space to fight in AND made it last way longer than any of the previous games did. So, instead of a quick 10-15 minute bloodbath they got a much longer, tactical and entertaining fight. Now I get why both things happened the way the did, I just wonder if either looked back and realized that what they did had the exact opposite effect of what they wanted to accomplish.
I agree with that but a part of me wonders if the “rebel bombs” were propaganda and done by Dr. Ghaul to incite fear and nationalism in the capitol citizens and a way to diversify the arena. But I don’t have much evidence to support that for now but it’s a fun one to think about
One thing I really enjoyed about this movie is how no one can agree on it, how everybody has different opinions on who's right and who's wrong and at what level they agree and disagree with the characters morally, it really forces you to peel back the layers and reexamine the characters and motives in ways you may not normally have.
exactly! it's so interesting how some ppl say this movie didn't portray Snow 'correctly' when so many others, including myself, think how they showed it in the movie perfectly reflects how the ppl he interacts with fell for his facade until we see the cracks during his personal 'hunger games' in act 3.
I think the entire idea of the movie is that you're supposed to look for that moment where he goes bad, youre supposed to look for his turning point. So that's why they don't make it obvious he's evil from the start.
The way the weapons look here are more like the are how I envisioned them to look when I read the first Hunger Games book, way before the movies. Crude and makeshift, not chrome and tactical. I love how it's a blend of irony, humor, and poetic justice that it was a girl from District 12 who molded Snow into what he became, and it was another girl from District 12 who would be his undoing. I would like to see another book about the 25th Hunger Game, but done in a way where we have more than one person to root for. Make a lot them more fleshed instead of just a few important characters while the rest are just one-dimensional paper people.
I do badly wanted this depicted in the movie. Reading it was so insane, I understand they probably couldn’t keep a PG rating if they did though. I disliked how they just had her character disappear completely after the initial bite instead of bringing her back how they did in the book. That’s something with the whole franchise I really do wish they kept the brutality/gore as it was in the books. But I understand it appeals to a younger audience so that would’ve been a bad move on the movie makers part
I love a good origin story. Snow is one of my favorite villains in literature. And seeing how he became so cold hearted was pretty cool. I do wish we had more of the inner monologue but I get it, you can only convey so much in a film. I just love the psychology of it all. Coryo feeling victimized by Lucy's "betrayal" when he betrayed her trust first. The ego and the narcissism is mind blowing. Love to hate him.
He wasn’t the villain though, he grew up in an environment where he’d die if he didn’t put himself first, this is a dystopian dictatorship, possible post apocalyptic as well.
21:45 i think coryo believed that Sejanus’s father would be able to buy his way out of this..he didn’t really expect him to be hanged. and he was also terrified for his own life. He got over it quickly tho!
The movie not only lost Snow's motivation/ thought process, they actually changed a few things that make him look better in the movie. Like when Arachne gets attacked by the girl from 10, Snow does nothing until Lucy tells him to go help her. And it's actually Sejanus in the book that brings sandwiches that his Ma made to the tributes at the zoo, then asks Coryo to give Lucy one because the tributes won't take them from him, and he figures if Snow gets Lucy to eat it, then the other tributes might, too (which they do). And Snow isn't the one who makes all the suggestions for the games, it's a whole class discussion and he gets put on a group assignment to write up the proposal, but he ends up being the one who turns it in. Also, they did Clemmie dirty in the movie. She wasn't trying to take all the credit, but Snow included her on the paper because she was part of the group assignment. And Gaul didn't explain about the snakes recognizing people's scents until Coryo had already reached into the tank and gotten some of the paper, and Clemmie had her hand in the tank to get the paper and tried to pull it out... she had some issues, too, during the games, she wasn't the greatest person either, but not as bad as the movie made her.
I didn’t read the book but what I got from the movie; the development of Coriolanus Snow was his love of power. I noticed most ppl think he slowly progressed towards power and violence and left love behind. But it’s not about his love for Lucy at all she kinda was a red herring. He loved power and violence the most. That’s what destroyed him. It destroyed all his relationships his best friend Sejanus Plinth and his girlfriend Lucy Gray. He was a villain since the beginning.
Great reaction! I loved your thoughts at the end because they really resonated with how I felt as a book reader. I would absolutely 100% recommend reading the book because it is utterly incredible (it has a slow start but you get really into it and snow's character is utterly insane). I thought the movie was pretty good and as adaptations go pretty good but seems conflicted in what it's trying to do and maybe trying to do too much without necessarily achieving it all 💓
Woah, I just realized this wasn't the main channel when you mentioned not saying "Grab a drink, grab a snack". Though admittedly I probably should have picked up on it when I had my drink and snack in hand holding off on taking a bite until you said the thing but then didn't lol
Exactly, this is why they have the sequence of him in the Arena. Snow thinks money and power will protect Sejanus. Gaul wants to show him that when humanity is 'undressed' there is no protection for anyone. @@hollyburks7635
They really made him look better in the movie than he truly was in the book. In the book you can read all his internal monologues and see how he despises everyone, specially Sejanus. Of course the conditions in which he grew up in had influence over him, but he's really despicable, paranoid and selfish. Everything he did was for his own success. Still, I really enjoyed reading it to understand a bit better how he became that person.
Snow is groomed by Gaul. The idea is that he is indoctrinated into the Capitol's sadistic ideology. That is why Gaul keeps asking him 'What are the Hunger Games for?'. She wants him to learn his lesson that people are savages who need to be repressed to maintain order. He's like a human jabberjay, just repeating the Capitol lines by the end. In the book there is a comparison quote to Frankenstein's monster. Its about how the failure of the people around the monster to protect him essentially created what he became. So in Snow's story that would be his grandmother, Gaul and Highbottom in various ways. They are the villains of this story, passing on generational trauma from the war.
I read the book before this came out, and I went and saw it with a friend who watched the hunger games movies but hadn't read the books. I read and seen both. After we saw the movie and was explaining " in the book it was this way" " in the book they explain more" "in the book you know Snows thoughts" I think the most important bit in the books is you know Snows inner thoughts and his feelings, and it makes things easier to get invested. His goal is relatable, he wants to get his family out of the poor house so his Gran and Tigress no longer live in poverty. He worries what Tigress has to do to help them make ends meet, he worries for his Gran and what it would do to her to loose their home. He starts out with understand able concerns. And they twist and grow in to something much more Sinister as the games and his time as a peace keeper progress. He can't save his family as a lowly peace keeper in district 12 yet in 12 he gets to be with Lucy Grey. But then the rebel activity threatens to take away what he does have and he fights to keep it. And eventually leads to him becoming obsessed with gaining and keeping power in his hands so he always lands on top.
I feel like that's more of a movie take. In the book it's clear he doesn't just suddenly become obsessed with gaining power. He was always very power hungry. He always had selfish motivations. Even when helping Lucy Gray
Just for the record, rabies is not called hydrophobia because it litterally makes you afraid of water. It makes swallowing so extremely painful that the patient will strongly reject attempts to get him to drink, hence the name.
Why did he know to meet her in the field? In the book Lucy told Corio where she and the covey live, so Corio went by their house and they told him that she was tending after the goat on the field.
About the same things happened in the book as in the movie, but it focuses much more in Snow's personality. We get to understand his character and his reasoning a lot better. I would say it's worth checking out and as usual it's better than the movie
Snow was just a selfish person. He didn’t mean to bring harm to his friend if his friend doesn’t bring any threats to his future of coming back to the capital. He had always been drawn into his friend’s mess. This time, he didn’t want to clean up his bullshit anymore.
I like the whole Peacekeeper arc feeling lile a whole different movie yet being the same movie. Maybe that's just my rebelion to cinematic conventions, but in a way it kind of feels like it cuts away from just being a story, and sort of becomes a slice of life thing, which I like. I would've liked to spend a little more time in that place of the movie though and would've totally went for a longer runtime.
I read the book, but it had been awhile so I didn't remember what Snow was thinking when he was "mourning" Sejanus in the movie. My (charitable) interpretation was that it might have been a genuine shock that Sejanus was executed. Snow had, after all, been right there when Sejanus got away with breaking into the games. He'd seen Sejanus loudly and publicly reject the games for years and no one do anything except ignore him. Snow was used to Sejanus getting away with things anyone else would be killed for because his family was so wealthy the Capitol was loathe to alienate them. He probably believed Sejanus would just be shuffled away elsewhere again, perhaps punished in some non-lethal way. That's what I was thinking when I watched the movie. I agree with several of your criticisms. And while I was mulling over what they might have done to help us connect with the loss of Snow's father, of course I was considering a flashback-type scene with the father himself, and got a really fun idea - probably not to be taken seriously, but... how fun would it be if Kiefer Sutherland had put in an appearance as Papa Snow?
BUT I THINK THIS STORY EXPLAINS WHY SNOW WAS SO SCARED BY KATNISS FROM THE BEGINNING SHE SAW LUCY IN KATNISS LUCY ALMOST DESTROYED HIM AND HE SAW THE SAME THING IN THE ACTIONS OF KATNISS FROM THE HUNGER GAMES MOVIES
For sure you should read the book. In the beginning, and i do thinks the movie did it ok, not perfect, but ok, in the book we do see that he has a little of good in him (and i do like that, it gives him mor depth), but her is very arrogant, hunger for power and prestige, elitist, has a lot of prejudice and hate. But he does have some good that is completely gone by the end. Is a very good book
I haven’t read the book but I really enjoyed the film but it did felt short. It left me wanting to know more in a good way, but I do agree that the transition for Coryo and it shouldn’t have been two films at least - maybe 3 shorter films. I also heard about the inner dialogue that the books POV. Twilight seem to have ruined movies unintentionally because since it’s Saga no films wants to give narration from the main characters but sometimes it’s needed in my opinion.
It’s almost sacrilegious as a ST fan, but the 09 film is SO FUN. I guess once the lens flares are pointed out, they’re a little like Dutch angles in Thor… can’t unsee them. Nonetheless, you’re so right! Hope she checks them out.
Naaat how is Daredevil S3 doing in the pipeline ?. Great reaction much love. Edit: Gives me the feel of a Country hero story, you and your guitar against the world.
The book was better. But this movie still got everything across that was needed. But it's good to talk to someone who read it to fill in details that didn't make sense.
@Nattiegold…. I really hope you see my comment. I was watching for certain scenes to see your reaction. Like Snows complete melt down while Lucy sang the hanging tree. Essentially she was telling him that I know you killed 3 people. And then for others that read the book. I believe Katniss is literally the mockingjay of Lucy. Also I believe Lucy got away. There’s so many clues.
I love your reactions Nat! Each time I see a new one I’m quick to click. 😊 For some reason I thought I’d already seen you do a reaction to the movie Jojo Rabbit but I can’t find it. Am I mistaken and you haven’t? If not, I would HIGHLY recommend watching it. Such an amazing movie! Thanks for always putting such good content out and being willing to try such a wide range of films. It lifts my day when I get to watch one!
My best friend is full blooded Ojibwe, Doctor of Ojibwe Studies and he said the most disturbing thing about seeing this in the theater was the white people laughing at completely inappropriate moments
The problem with Hollywood these days is they don't respect the source material. They go out of their way to hire inexperienced writers who have no clue about canon or lore and are discouraged from doing any research so that it won't get in the way of their woke propaganda. You know like the Witcher, or Rings of Power, or Star Wars.
Are you saying that this movie doesn’t respect the source material or making a general statement? The author (Suzanne Collins) helped write the first draft of the script along with the writer who wrote Catching Fire (Michael Arndt). For a book that’s twice as long as the other books I think they did a great job condensing the story in a 2.5 hour movie. This movie is almost the same length as the other movies even though it’s twice as long. It’s pretty impressive they were able to capture the major story beets is such a short amount of time.
I think that this film had a lot of care and love for the source material. Irregardless, I do prefer a good adaptation to a loyal adaptation. Beyond a baseline level of respect, I think it's the job of the writers doing the adapting to consider what would result in the best piece of art (in this case film). Loyalty to the source doesn't always translate through mediums. Kubrick's "The Shining" is widely regarded as a better piece of work than Stephen King's "The Shining" miniseries, despite the latter being hugely loyal to his novel.
The problem with the movie is that we dont get Snows internal monologe. He is a piece of shit throught and throught, a pure narcissist and pretty much all of his actions comes from a place of selfishness, manipulation and a lust for power. His way of viewing Lucy Gray reminds me a bit of Lolita. But we dont get to see this in the movie, and therefore, he alomst comes across as a pretty decent guy. Which is BS
The weakest of the books. It honestly, serves no real purpose. The book is better than the film, as is almost always the case, but still feels like an afterthought rather than the beginning of the story. For those that need exposition to understand a story, it does okay. The acting is okay, the sets and designs are okay and the score is fine. It's an okay film. In my opinion (only mine) the book and the film only serve to diminish a really good villain, in order to gain nothing.
Honest completely disagree while nothing will technically be better than the book that brought us the world. This book is my favorite and personally I think it is the strongest of the 4. If just barely beating out catching fire. It does an amazing job of characterizing snow without making him a good guy as too many villain origin stories try to do. It also does a great job of explaining the world and people that created the hunger games.
I was into the movie, NONE of singing parts did it for me, it doesn’t help that I just don’t like that actress. The movie lost me in chapter 3 but I came back around in the end. I think the point is showing you that there wasn’t something that changed Snow, he was always like that. You can be evil and still have feelings, I don’t think you need a fall at all.
@@than.imeiii No it's not the music itself it's the context. I've never liked "singing for effect" in movies, where they try and force an emotional response out of you by singing.
Lucy is insufferable in this movie. I don't know if it's the actress, the character, the acting choice, but she seemed both arrogant and self-pitying at the same time. It seemed like the actress was trying to make every scene an Oscar choice for melodrama. I guess it wasn't for me. Snow's character and actor did a great job. I'd like to have seen the movie about him instead of sharing it with Lucy's story.
(Hate that I feel the need to praise this at all, but…) Kudos to you both for having a respectful disagreement on the internet. IMHO, (almost) every character in this movie sucks - at least, from a moral/ethical standpoint. BUT that’s not surprising at all, given the world in which they exist.. 🫤 #theme?
