Troy, I regret to inform you that it is far too late in the evening for me to roast potatoes and thus I cannot watch the video at the moment. However, I’ll try my best and be back tomorrow
I loved how Miles basically had an arc of wishing Peter had more time for him only to see inside his head and Peters struggles dealing with Aunt Mays death. It's like he realises "oh yeah, Peter is actually a person. He doesn't exist solely to be a mentor to me"
It’s not only that, I feel like the writers were so worried about making Miles “perfect” that they forgot about making him a good character in the first place. Are we really supposed to believe that he didn’t hear all the commotion and explosives at coney island? Peter almost died twice in this game and Miles wasn’t there both times… Why? We are not smart enough to deserve better writing it seems.
@JEF_W yeah, peak hypocrisy. He's complaining about peter not making time for him but when Pete is fighting for his life against the symbiotes miles is asking whatsherface on a date.
@@eddieroomsI find it hard to believe all of the Miles story. You mean to tell me he made almost no references to Li during the first 2 games but now he's out for blood? Yes, running into someone who caused you so much pain unexpectedly would piss you off, but there would definitely be some thoughts of that person in the first place
@@Beans-do6wc I know right? And it also feels like they were going for a more deep story for Miles but they cut off a lot of it by the time the game released. There are some leftover dialogues that hint that. It would have been so cool if Miles' revenge quest against Li was one of the reasons why Peter lost himself to the symbiote. But no, it's the other way around, Peter is a total jerk to Miles even without the black suit. We're always shown every single time Peter dumps him just because Harry is calling. They want us to believe that Peter NEVER calls him back? That he NEVER writes Miles back? Fuck off game...
I really love how to find a worthy opponent Kraven had to fight an actual alien. He had to go against a being not of this world in order to find his match.
He didn’t properly beat Sandman, he just riled him up and then let Spider-Man take care of him. I feel like Sandman would’ve easily defeated all of Kravens forces and Kraven himself
@@radfrad5359unless Kraven suddenly masters web shooters yeah it’s doubtful, I’d like to see a sick dude survive being thrown through a building and multiple city blocks
The "I'm sorry" that Yuri/Peter screams to the lady literally makes me tear up. Its sounds so genuine and its a wake up call that superheroes can't save everyone, no matter how hard they try.
@@stillis2489How- how would that have helped? I'm pretty sure those arms aren't strong enough to lift that giant fucking structure on their own and Peter was already being pulled down by the weight of the two cars he was barely managing to hold in one hand, he couldn't possibly have gotten any leverage to use the Spider Arms effectively in that scenario.
For the longest time, I didn't get why Harry was mad at the Peter and Norman interaction, but I think I may have figured it out. Norman says he's grateful and proud of Peter for being there for Harry moments after Peter has snapped at Harry and refused to help him. So I think in this instance, it's not the classic father-figure resentment we've seen before, but that he's mad that Peter is (in Harry's eyes) acting like he's still helping and cares after what had just happened. What he sees is Norman thanking Peter for caring and being a good person, and it makes sense for him to be upset about that after Peter has just essentially abandoned him in his time of need and omitted that truth from Norman. I think it doesn't come across clear because it seems like Insomniac tried to frame it as a reference to the classic daddy issues dynamic when really it shouldn't have been. Just my theory!
Not just that harry heard of what peter has done throughout his years which hurted an eavesdropping harry. I don't think insomniac was going for that father and son issue path, but more like harry is hurt because he's going to die without anything that would make norman proud and harry doesn't hate peter that much because in the end they're like brothers, he even tried to recruit peter in his twisted dream of healing the world while in the black goo
that but also, taking what we know from harry in the comics and their relationship it ultimately comes down to harry’s insecurities. outwardly this harry appears to wear his heart on his sleeve but when it comes to his bigger, core insecurities he bottles them. it’s up to interpretation but a lot of the time harry as a character is very queer-coded and norman clearly isn’t receptive to having a more softer, emotional momma’s boy who’s kinda an artsy dork that he’s always having to coddle and protect from the outside world. peter is incredibly intelligent and shares a lot of the same interests as norman when it comes to their love of science and with peter’s new found spider-abilities he essentially becomes the jock-like son that’s also a genius and from the outside appears to have his shit together with the house and his relationship with mj. he doesn’t have to constantly worry about and protect someone like peter and he sees him as what he could’ve had.
I've always thought of Venom's goal as just being whatever the host wants because that way its most likely to survive because the host wont want to get rid of it
Yeah I thought this was kind of clear. When Peter had it he said “it makes me a better spiderman” so that was his entire goal. When back to Harry, it was about healing the world.
1:16:39 I think it’s less Harry is jealous of Peter and more the fact that the person who won’t give him back his life-saving cure and just told him off less than 30 seconds ago is now being praised by his own father
He got a couple things wrong in the video, which includes this bit. In my opinion, it perfectly makes sense to me why he would be jealous and upset at that, and his motivation and the symbiote's motivation makes sense to me too, because the way I see it, is that the symbiote just helps it's host to achieve it's goal so that the host doesn't toss him out. Similar to how it makes peter think that the symbiote makes him a better spiderman and something that "makes me everything I need to be", it's just that the symbiote twists the mindset of what good is. I love this dynamic, but to each their own. I do agree on the anti venom part that it should've been more expanded.
@@johncapron6010not sure if I’m correct on what you mean by anti Venom being expanded but if you mean that it wasn’t gone in enough depth then I think it will eventually. Pete doesn’t really know how to use the power yet and it feels like it’s based off emotion.
@johncapron6010 The symbiote "Because Venom is Eddie Brock & the suit combined to get revenge on Peter Parker" didn't negatively affect the minds of the hosts in the comic. That happened in the animated series that was loosely based on said source material. Between 1984 and 1988 in the main canon comics, Spider-Man wanted to get it off just because Reed Richard told him that the suit was alive. He showed no aggression, all the suit did was controlled hid body while he was sleeping. That was all reconned because of the cartoon show in a vain attempt to make the books more popular and increase sales. Which is still ongoing today by the MCU. 😒
@@johncapron6010that’s a cool take that could explain wth was going on with the symbiote during the game. Tbh, I really don’t like the anti venom suit, as the video says, the black suit has become a sort of analogy to substance abuse, and with that in mind, I can’t help but feel like the message ends up being “if you’re struggling with a substance, it’s because you’re not using the correct substance”
@@speedyazi5029 I think it'd be great if WE WERE THE ONES RUNNING and we'd get kncoked into sewers, subways, etc. and he fights us in traditional bossfight style
@@speedyazi5029 maybe it was supposed to happen, but they decided to cut it for the MJ mission. You can even see a cutscene where Pete is getting chased by venom and it looks like it's going to transition into a playable moment, until it unfortunately switches to MJ.
i found it weird when the dev said they found spiderman overpowered in stealth when testing and didn't want the gameplay to become repetitive. Spiderman has always been a stealth character(in games) to me. Even in animated he does way more work in the shadows than in public, the public just sees the boss battles😅
@spider-man5544 did I say I wanted another arkham? spider's stealth has always been unique and a sandbox to solve. webbing to walls or overhang takedown have existed before the arkham games did (Spider-Man movie tie in did arkham style stealth in 2002) at this point he is as much of a stealth character as the bat.
@@abhinavpandey900 Batman uses shadows but he doesn't use stealth. They both use hiding and sneaking about as much as each other in the comics, the difference is that when batman isn't hiding, he wants to scare people and when spidey isn't hiding, he wants to put them at ease (except that one time he was trying to be intimidating when daredevil was threatening all the crime bosses in NYC)
As far as the black suit design goes, I really would've preferred if it started like the black color scheme for the advanced suit, then give more breathing room where he's being normal Spider-Man but with it on, maybe during the fight with the lizard transitions into what the default design is, then changed into the more alien version later when he breaks out of the cage going into the Kraven fight so there's more of a progression as it impacts Peter's mental state more and more. As is it just all feels very sudden
@@odd-dev I never said it should be a recolor I said it shouldve started *like* the black color scheme. The black suit storyline doesn't work if everyone can immediately tell the suit is bad news, in the comic it looked and felt like fabric it wasn't a gooey mass until it turned into venom. If they wanted the black suit to look gooey and alien it makes no sense why Peter would be totally ok with it when it's very clearly something weird and organic like it is in the game
Yeah I don’t think Peter should’ve had the alien look when he had the symbiote, at least not right off the bat. He’s supposed to think of it as some hi-tech bio suit and later find out that it’s an alien, in my opinion they missed the point by having it look like an evil sentient alien from the get go. Personally I think they should save the goo alien look for venom and keep the sleek shiny cloth look for Spider-Man when the symbiote storyline gets portrayed In media anyways.
@@Marb315 The way it was explained is why it works. With Harry explaining it being an exosuit thing, which sidesteps the "problem" you have with its design
For your point/confusion on Peter giving the symbiote back to Harry and creating Venom, I interpreted it as Peter having corrupted the symbiote through all of his bully shenanigans. I think another way of looking at the Host and Symbiote relationship, is that it truly is a symbiotic relationship where they can both affect each other's mental state as well as goals (so it's maybe not simply just "goo is evil"). I'm thinking that the symbiote's initial goal was to simply become stronger to help Peter, but when it gets onto Harry for the second time it shifts its goal to "healing the world" in a dark, ambitious, and power hungry way after being influenced by Peter. My reasoning that it truly wants to help its host comes from all the times it actually helps Pete and Harry. Such as when it saves Harry from a self-inflicted fall at EMF (if it was already malicious it would've let Harry go splat and jump onto the stronger host that is Peter), and the infiltration of Kraven's dinner party where it pulls the rug to save a waiter from harm (to Peter's desires). As a side note, in terms of the symbiote transformation, Peter's lust for power to become a better Spider-Man combined with Harry's resentment for his best friend is possibly the cause for why the standard symbiote suit morphs into the monstrous/hulking Venom. In a way, I kinda see the symbiote as another victim throughout this whole story, a tragic loss of innocence due to Peter not fully resolving his trauma from May's passing and his inner hatred for the criminals of NYC. Looking back at the story now, it's kinda nice that Insomniac left enough for the symbiote to be up for interpretation and speculation (which is pretty fun to do), but I think they could've told a few more things to clear some stuff up to spare people from frustration and confusion.
Ok, I liked his performance so much that I looked up who played Kraven, and it's a guy named Jim Pirri, who, oddly enough, also voiced Salvatore Maroni in the straight-to-DVD animated movie Batman: The Long Halloween.
Fun fact, when Otto says "the final chapter" the shadow from his glasses look like spider man lenses, and the superior spider man suit is the ONLY suit that's looking straight at you in the suit selection screen
They didn't really stick the landing with the whole Miles college essay story, but the vibe I got from a few of the comments he makes over the course of the game lead me to believe that Miles was going to take a gap year before starting college. Which is a nice dove tail on the "Balance" lesson that Aunt May gave Peter. Peter is balancing his life by pulling back on being Spider-Man to prioritize Emily-May stuff and having a more stable life with MJ. Miles on the other hand spends the whole game running away from doing that essay in favor of doing Spider-Man stuff showing that's where his passion is right now. Unlike Peter at that same age Miles has a support system. His mom, Uncle Aaron, Genki and Hailey all have Miles covered when he needs support so not immediately going to college is acceptable choice. It's just nice to see how they are building kind of a family/community that helps each other out and steps up to cover each other's slack so no one feels overwhelmed with their responsibilities.
insomniac really said "hey Peter you know they really cool arc you had about how you don't need extra powers to be a great Spider-Man and that your friends and connections are the help you need, yea were gonna give a new suit with all the same powers but zero drawbacks that basically just sends the message that you do need extra powers to be a better Spider-Man and that your not good enough, see you later Pete!"
Maybe for Venom to get his name Peter could mention early after getting the suit how it puts him on equal footing with Miles’s crazy abilities and say something about the suit basically being his version of Miles’s “venom”, leading the symbiote to take that name later as a callback
@@cockatoo_xxi7065 The difference is that the Suicide Squad line doesn't really do anything for the story. All it does is make a connection to the out-of-story title of the movie, so it feels somewhat unnecessary. In this case, however, a line like that would give a stronger reason for the symbiote to call itself Venom. The pause that Deadshot takes before he does the title drop also doesn't help matters, as it makes it feel like more of a wink-wink nudge-nudge moment.
2:05:40 In defence of MJ, she's only just entered rehab for her compulsive "strap em down/tag and bag" killing spree so she's not going to be in the right frame of mind to think rationally about new hobbies.
Even if Spiderman 2 isn't perfect for everyone, I can still say I enjoyed the absolute hell of it, and personally, I'm satisfied with the long-awaited game and everyone who worked extremely hard at Insomniac games and the cast deserves all the praise and support for possibly one of the greatest comic book videogames made. Really excited about what they give us in the future
They should have removed dodge indicators during the symbiote fights making you have to pay attention to attack telegraphs. Spiderman is not supposed to be able to sense venom with his spider sense. He always gets ambushed by venom for a reason. I wish they honored that part of the lore.
I agree from a lore perspective but the fact is, from a gameplay perspective, they really couldn't have gotten away with this. First of all, since you can switch between peter and miles and fight symbiotes in the open world, Miles would just be the objectively better option because he'd have spidey sense (because the reason pete can't sense the symbiote is that he bonded with it which Miles never did), and secondly the spidey sense indicators are a vital part of the combat. You wouldn't be making the combat more immersive by removing it from combat, you'd be making it less fun. No indicator of whether to parry or dodge, no idea if an enemy you can't see is coming for you, etc Like, it'd be possible to rework the current system into a system that would work without spidey sense, but it'd require a fundamental redesign of the combat and make you relearn it like 2/3rds of the way through the game
@apersonwhomayormaynotexist9868 it would just require paying attention to the attack telegraphs the arkham games have hard modes that remove the counter icon you have to pay attention yourself to counter enemies. But I hear you the play space is a little to chaotic for it to work compared to arkham combat it might even end being more rage enduring than a souls game
To be honest, I liked Spider-Man’s relationship to the police in the first game. Making friends in the force to connect him to more official sources (kind of like Batman, now that I think about it) was neat for a veteran Spidey. Plus, it feels like in this game he just beats up criminals and leaves, no police to arrest them or anything. I understand the police are controversial at the moment, with a spotlight being shone on their problems, but I don’t think illegal vigilantism is the morally superior option.
The college essay is the best part of Miles balance arc for me because I remember my admission counselor openly laughing when I said I was worried I wasn't gonna get in. She just asked why and I said "the essay". I had like a 3.71 GPA. Miles could get into ANY school.
I feel like something people don't mention whenever they say that this game was too short is the amount of busy work that Insomniac cut out. To 100% Spider-Man 1 (ignoring the main story missions) you have to do collect 55 Backpacks, 16 Side Missions, 47 Landmark Photos, 6 Fisk Hideouts with 6 waves each, 5 Demon Warehouses with 6 waves each, 4 Sable Outposts with 6 waves each, 4 Prisoner Camps with 6 waves each, 17 Research Stations, 11 Black Cat Stakeouts, 12 Pigeons, 16 Taskmaster Challenges, 45, Thug Crimes, 40 Demon Crimes, 40 Prisoner Crimes, and 40 Sable Crimes. A lot of these things, especially the 165 random crimes you have to do, definitely inflate the overall time it takes to 100% complete the game. Comparatively, to 100% Spider-Man 2 (again ignoring the main story missions) you need to do 14 Marko’s Memories, 23 Photo Ops, 6 FNSM Request, 10 Prowler Stashes, 4 The Flame Side Missions, 5 Brooklyn Visions Side Missions, 9 EMF Experiments, 43 Spider-Bots, 10 Mysteriums, 2 Cultural Museum Missions, 11 Hunter Blinds, 4 Hunter Bases, 9 Unidentified Target challenges, and 9 Symbiote nests. It is overall less stuff that you need to do, but I’d argue that a lot of them are of higher quality.
Yes! I think the main story/sidequest pacing is much better in this than in the original (which kinda cancels itself out because the story pacing isnt as good as in 1)
Yeah I’d agree! Although I do wish we had more stuff like backpacks because I loved the flashback stuff so much and I think the backpacks could have assisted some flashback scenes and filled in the gaps. Like backpacks relating to the Lizard and some of the older villains that we see in the game and maybe provide some extra content for the villains that Kraven killed to make it feel less sudden?
I'd say the problem is that the first one has much better side missions than the second one. Why? Not only were they better linked to the main story, they were much more fun. They put a bunch of stuff that don't really matter at all. What's the point of helping the rich kids at Brooklyn Visions? Really? Going to a museum? So much more could've been done and better, give Scorpion, Mysterio, Sandman, Prowler, Mr. Negative, Tombstone and Black Cat more, don't just throw some "oh this happened" or "oh so they're fine". There's no conflict, no consequence, no point. It's like someone told developers to make up "mature and adult content" and this is what they managed to think of.
I’d agree with the robot dog and howard mission, but all the woke missions were just very uncessary, but over i feel like side missions felt the exact same, the flame lore was nice alonf with chameleon easter egg, but i feel they couldve done more intresting side missions like the arkham games do (riddler-like challenges suck in both games)
I have to say, the Anti-Venom Suit actually makes sense with the "Addiction" allegory. The suit represents gaining a healthier relationship with the thing you once were addicted to. "The voices are gone, but the power is still there" shows that you can get drunk from time to time but your need for more isn't there anymore (I uses alcoholism as an example). So yeah, Anti-Venom actually makes much more sense.
I feel the part around 1:31:43 confuses me, and I think it's because of a single thing you forgot to mention beforehand: the meteorite. The game shows that as soon Pete got in contact with it, he begins to take a more venomized design, and starts to act completely different from earlier. Rather than simply treating the suit as a person, he was treating it as another being, which can be seen by him saying "Destroy us" and all that. This does veer into headcanon-ish territory, but I thought that was the reason given behind why Harry becomes venom, rather than agent venom. The symbiote had remembered it's origin as an alien; a creature connected to some sort of hivemind. Perhaps due to the bonding process it had with Harry during his treatment, it ended up forgetting its original purpose. But as soon as it grabs ahold of the meteorite, it gets a flashback to how it arrived to the planet in the first place. That, to me, explicitly shows that the Symbiote now knows who it is, and that is why it ends up making Harry into Venom, rather than Agent Venom. So, if Harry had gotten the suit before it interacted with the meteorite, it is extremely likely that it might have continued to be docile and unaware of it's original purpose. Meaning that would've been the right thing to do at that point in time. Edit: Another comment made a good point that Peter's Rage combined with Harry's Resentment turned the symbiote into what it is now, which does make sense!
Imma be real honest when it came to the depiction of may’s dirty house, I think thats the best way to depiction of it, its the grief and misery he is going through in the game. But I saw this process when my grandma died, the house was filthy because so much of my grandmas stuff wasnt moved or even cleaned out, it was like she was still there like the house was trapped in the moment before she died. Just like mays house which i found really heart warming
1:16:18 To explain, I think it's because Peter just yelled and insulted MJ and Harry and is being selfish with the suit and in general so when he then gets complimented from Osborn, it just angers him, especially since as far as Harry knows, Pete is hogging the one thing that can save him.
See I always took the symbiote as an almost childlike entity that responds to the emotions of those around it. Osborn was it's first host and he just wanted Harry to heal. The symbiote responded to this and did just that! It healed Harry and once it bonded with him it helped him stay healthy. When Harry learned about a Peters identity as Spider-Man Harry's desire shifted to being "like spider man" the symbiote even reaches out to Peter as a sign of this desire. Agent Venom also comes from this desire to be like Peter and it even gives Harry the emblem. The suit only ever truly leaves Harry when his desire shifts to healing Peter after the knife wound. Now that its bonded with Peter whooooooo boy it breaks the poor aliens mind. Peter is a MESS. Peters desires are complicated and rough and messy. Peter is feeling his age and stress, the symbiote responds by making him stronger and by fighting even when Peter sleeps. Its being corrupted by peters anger and stress and becomes more and more violent and feral. It also still senses his desire to help people, but it's being corrupted by the rest of peters warped desires. I also think it's why Peter was unable to give it back to Harry originally. Peter knew that he SHOULD give the suit back, but deep down he didn't WANT to give the suit back. When it eventually rejoins with Harry the suit has been essentially brain broken by living in peters head for so long. Couple that with Harry's new feelings of resentment and anger towards Peter and Harry's desire to save the world and you have the recipe for disaster we see in the final act.
Love this take on the "Peter was nerfed" thing. I think something that epitomises spider man's character is his ability to lose again and again and be able to get back up
I really liked the cinematography of the game and the way shots are put together is *Chef's Kiss*. It is barely noticeable, but at 1:26:52 when Venom fully takes over Harry and the camera is panned behind Peter it looks like it being panned in a way like when a boss fight begins, but when Norman comes into the shot to tell Peter to not hurt Harry is amazing cinematography. It is not noticeable to some, but play that particular mission again and see it for yourselves. It is a good subversion of expectation when you think you are about to fight Venom and your childhood best friend, but it cements that Harry is still within the suit when Norman steps into frame to remind us that our best friend who is dying is still in that suit of goop. I love the great Cinematography and storytelling of Spiderman 2 and I cannot wait for what is next for Insomniac Games in the future.
1:49:00 - The Studio wanted the game out, so they scrapped 70% of Tony Todd's lines, a section of the game where Miles gets the symbiote, among other things. They were rushed so much they literally told us that they were worried they wouldn;'t be able to make a satisfying final half of the game. YAY STUDIO INTERFERENCE!
I'm sure you're making a lot of excellent, nuanced and well-thought out points here, but I've been watching this for an hour and I can't stop thinking about how nice your hair looks
In a SM game where you have side missions involving Carnage, Chameleon and the broader Spider-Verse, making down-to-earth side content as good as the Grandpa Earl and Howard missions (which are my favorite ones) really says a lot about the creative team behind this game, and how much they care and understand Spider-Man.
Yeah but then they made useless content such as mj missions the hailey mission and the Brooklyn visions side quests like bruh the grandpa earl and Howard missions were great, but man I wish I played more of venom 😂
I haven't finished watching the video yet, but yes I would LOVE to see you cover Ben 10 on the channel, either as a retrospective or a rewrite would be amazing. (Also this video is pretty good, I've been loving it so far)
(SC: I loved this review, thank you for making it. Troy you're so cool and I watch all your videos.) Unironically though, I loved the review, it was awesome
I think the symbiote instead of just simply making the host evil, it takes the host desires and twists it to fit it's own way of doing things. Which further backs it up by Peter wanting to be a better Spider-Man and Harry wanting to heal the world with Peter.
The thing a lot of people miss in this game is venoms reasons for doing what he does ge doesnt want to be alone every thing he does is built on thought like when he begged peter to join him If he makes the whole world like he wont be alone at least thats the way i took all of it
The subtext around how the symbiote works totally clicked with me on the first playthrough. The symbiote has always wanted to take over the world, it just needed someone with enough pain and anger to unleash its true form. Harry wasn't as pained as Peter was, and the symbiote could sense all of it on Peter. His anxiety around protecting the people he loves, his guilt around losing May despite doing the right thing. So when the symbiote gets the chance to take advantage of Peter, it gets to work. It was so close to success. Kraven was always looking to unleash the beast. If Peter had killed Kraven and Miles, that would have been enough to fully take Peter over and become Venom. But Peter has a friend in Miles who was able to anchor him and pull him out. Harry, due to Peter having the symbiote, lacked that anchor of friendship. Harry began to resent Peter. So when the symbiote is returned, only now does Harry have enough anger to let Venom take him.
See I always took the symbiote as an almost childlike entity that responds to the emotions of those around it. Osborn was it's first host and he just wanted Harry to heal. The symbiote responded to this and did just that! It healed Harry and once it bonded with him it helped him stay healthy. When Harry learned about a Peters identity as Spider-Man Harry's desire shifted to being "like spider man" the symbiote even reaches out to Peter as a sign of this desire. Agent Venom also comes from this desire to be like Peter and it even gives Harry the emblem. The suit only ever truly leaves Harry when his desire shifts to healing Peter after the knife wound. Now that its bonded with Peter whooooooo boy it breaks the poor aliens mind. Peter is a MESS. Peters desires are complicated and rough and messy. Peter is feeling his age and stress, the symbiote responds by making him stronger and by fighting even when Peter sleeps. Its being corrupted by peters anger and stress and becomes more and more violent and feral. It also still senses his desire to help people, but it's being corrupted by the rest of peters warped desires. I also think it's why Peter was unable to give it back to Harry originally. Peter knew that he SHOULD give the suit back, but deep down he didn't WANT to give the suit back. When it eventually rejoins with Harry the suit has been essentially brain broken by living in peters head for so long. Couple that with Harry's new feelings of resentment and anger towards Peter and Harry's desire to save the world and you have the recipe for disaster we see in the final act.
1:16:05 Harry is angry with his father here because his father was praising someone who just presented himself as someone selfish and would let Harry die to keep the suit.
After beating the game, my current favorite thing to do and basically all I do in the game now is just open it up, go to the water between the two halves of the map, turn on super point launches, and then just glide and point launch off of boats, you get some EXTREME speed, and then you can swing under the bridges or even catch the wind currents
My viewpoint of the symbiote in this game is that it takes the innermost desires of the host and unintentionally twists and corrupts them, seeing them from a simple animalistic view. Peter wants to he a better Spider-Man, so hes twisted into being cruel and brutal. Harry wants to "heal the world", which is already a pretty vague statement, and corrupts it into "healing" all weaknesses and imperfections, ie make it like the symbiote. But thats just how I thought the story was portraying it. Kinda plays into the themes of mental health and how your desires can be used against you.
26:18 I thought there was gonna be some plot point about Harry clinging to the past, and Peter having to move forward (hence the bikes). And I think maybe they were gonna do that. Like with Peter getting past the symbiote and Harry going back to it or, heck, the final battle takes place at their high school. But then they just didn’t do that. It makes me wonder if it got cut, because I’m pretty sure Yuri Lowenthal said he recorded hundreds of lines that didn’t end up in the game (don’t quote me on that) so I guess it could’ve been cut. 29:27 I feel like Miles had not enough to do in the first half and then too much to do in the second half. Like I wish the Martin Li stuff was better spread out, maybe give him something to do with Uncle Aaron or make the museum robbery side quest a bigger part of the story. Like anything to give him something to do other than just sort of exist. 42:25 Cute how Tombstone was reformed, wish there was more of that. Maybe a Tombstone side mission where you take down some of his old thugs. Also: “I loved this review, thank you for making it. Troy you’re so cool and I watch all your videos.”
Isn't harry's reason on emf is a tribute to his mom and make her words to a reality and its evident when miles had a phone call from harry im pretty he sure he clings on it by a lot its just subtle I agree the only think i can complain about is the how martin li story was paced but even then i think its all good There is like mysterio and you have to deal with mysterium challenges where you fight a younger more narcissistic self of mysterio
most of the story is from sweet baby inc a ESG company outsourced for narrative and character writing the simple answer is just didn't bother, they didn't care
19:03 Not finished the video yet, so I’m sorry if this is brought up later but I really didn’t like either Jameson’s or Danika’s portrayal in this game specifically. They portray them as the designated “Point and laugh at how wrong” and “Sit and ponder how infallibly right” characters respectively and it not only lessons Jameson as a character but treats Danika as somehow omniscient. I liked her in Miles Morales as more of a representative of the community’s thoughts and feelings, but here she just regurgitates the story we’re actively watching unfold and somehow knows/predicts plot points and events that only the player would know?
For me the differences with this venom subverted my expectations in a kool way. I did get the sense also that Harry was involved and that the Symbiote had an emotional element to it like it became invested in the dynamics of the broken friendship by being bonded to Peter and Harry, but was still obviously driven by its alien Instinct which gave it a Cosmic horror vibe and made thier story more tragic for me
From the implications I read from the game (maybe this is just a head cannon at this point to justify Agent Venom idk) with how Harry was with the suit, being perky and brave I think that the symbiote just amplifies and retains the emotions of it’s wearer whilst still having its own. For example: Peter angry, that make symbiote angry. Peter abandoned symbiote and Harry, that make venom angry and add Peter angry on to that.
2:18:23 I feel like the symbiot in this game is the personification of anger. We have all felt pure anger in our lives to the point where it makes us say some horrible things and that’s what makes the symbiot more powerful. I think when the symbiot covers its host it hightens this emotion (feeding off of it) causing them to let loose and not hold back. So when they are freed they feel relieved not just from the symbiot but that horrible feeling of hatred. This also explains why harry doesn’t seem to be acting out of place when he first has the symbiot as he doesn’t really have anything that he truly hates in life. However Peter has a lot of built up trauma and people he blames (mainly himself) that that anger just comes straight out and is preyed upon. This is where the symbiot sees a way to accomplish its goal and why venom never really gives up on the idea of Peter joining him to complete his mission. Great video as always!
I don’t think I see any comments on it but the reason that fire isn’t really that much of a weakness for Venom is because there’s so many situations and sequences during the game where he’s around fire so rather than try and work around that they just flat out gave him immunity to fire.
Nah, the symbiote here is a neutral amoral organism that is corrupted by the users, not just some evil goop, the stressful situations the characters passed through the story are the things that create Venom, not backwards, and I love this way of adapting it, the motivation of the symbiote are the motivations of the characters that wore it, it's like a pet, it just wanted to help.
i swear to god if the third game has some final mission suit imma be so pissed. If we're fighting green goblin(spider-man's MOST iconic villain), in ANYTHING other than the classic suit i will be so disappointed because this kind of set piece deserves to be untouched.
"This is what you wanted" is simply in reference to Norman wanting Harry to not die, and now he wont die. I think trying to take it as Harry living up to Norman's (nonexistent) pressure on Harry is reaching a little too far.
1:03:56 I don't think your rhetoric works well here. I'm sure there were people who were being harsh about the side mission bc of pre conceived prejudices. However, the argument "i paid for a spiderman game" is still valid and shouldn't be mocked. MJ and her missions only work bc she has genuine agency in the story. Hailey serves as nothing more than Miles' love interest in this game. So her having a side mission that isn't spiderman related can feel like a reach for "representation". The other mission that represents a disabled person is the dog mission. Which i found very heartwarming, you're still playing as Spiderman and doing a service to a memeber of your community it shows spiderman is still looking after the littke guy. I personally don't have any feelings towards the hailey mission, but I wanted to explain my thoughts on the response you and a lot of other people give when someone (possibly) has genuine criticism.
I agree entirely with your swinging settings. 10 feels too slow but when it's on 0, hitting the floor so often is just really frustrating. Keeping me off the ground but still requiring effort to keep going feels so good, and you can even still hit the ground if you're really not trying. 1 is my favorite swing assist
1:21:56 THIS is one of my biggest gripes with this game. While the first game really felt like it actually spent time telling the story, like we weren't there for all of it, both MM and SM2 feel like the developers wanted us to be witness to every single story beat. All that does is diminish the amount of story that happens. Peter literally had like 2 bad days with the black suit, and decided his need for it was over. As an allegory for addiction, as you mentioned a good Black Suit story kind of needs to be, that is horribly paced. Peter's relationships are supposed to be damaged by his dependence on the symbiote and indulgence into it's darker, more visceral offerings, and that kind of stuff cant happen over the course of a couple days. I think Insomniac's insistence that the story only happens when we play kind of hinders their ability to flesh things out. They don't allow inference of time or events. Pete comes out of the sewer to see NYC totally enveloped in Venom's tendrils. He then immediately sets out to destroy them, and within the day, they are eliminated. That doesn't feel like NYC was invaded by an alien that wants to rule the world. That feels like an event that happens in that latter half of the day.
I loved the game but when they half-baked Venom and certain elements of Harry it felt like a disservice to Harry, Eddie, and Flash. That said I do think it would have been fun to have Flash cameo as the gym teacher when they were playing basketball in the present day
This game is personally in my top 3 stories in games, with the 2018 god of war and Titanfall 2 being the others. I love this interpretation of Venom and Kraven, and while the black suit part could’ve been a BIT longer, the gameplay absolutely made up for it. My favourite suits to use were the default ones (the new advanced suit is insanely awesome) and the superior for Peter and atsv suit for miles. All in all 10/10 game imo
I would love to see some Ben 10 content like you mentioned in the vid. I also found the continuous gags with Aaron's terrible beat and MJ's bloodlust really funny. Keep it up 💪
In my personal opinion venom and the Symbiote in general is so underrated utilized that it didn’t feel worth it to include it. They basically speed run the story as soon as Peter gets the Black Suit and Venom doesn’t really get to be a character.
I honestly really like the police radio in the first game. Not only does it remind me of scenes in the TASM movies where Peter would listen to the radio, 1st in his room and 2nd time out while swinging, but it also gives a very vigilante feel to it which I like to see in Spider-Man media.
I'm personally really hoping they incorporate Superior Spiderman in the next game. Ik we already got the suit, but I think it would be a great way to pull Peter back into the story, and work perfectly with how they've already set up Otto's illness. Not sure how they'd do that along with Green goblin, but I feel like Insomniac could find a way
Have otto fight the goblins, until norman is too strong and otto needs to sacrifice himself to bring back peter, like the OG book. You could also do something with how otto hates norman.
@@smellysox1567an Otto redemption arc is one of the things I want most out of these games because not only is the Doc Ock fight in 1 one of my favourite fights in video games but I thought we were going to get something like that in 2 during the "inside Peter's mind segment". Li says that it's filled with his regrets and Otto comes up right after he says that. I wish we got at least some mention of Otto, it really felt like Peter forgot about him this game considering how close they were in the first one
@@smellysox1567 I don't know about that. One of the reasons Otto failed against Norman because Otto had never fought Goblin like this, while Peter had fought him multiple times. Peter would've predicted Goblin's moves which Otto failed to do. Since Insomniac Peter and Norman never had that kind of relationship, I don't think it'd work.
1:01:25 ... its almost as if someone should've told Mr. Osborne that he lost the suit... maybe then he could've said " Oh I sent a piece off" and get the piece back. Or you could say the train coming back was because he sent for it to get the other symbiote piece to save Harry? And Cletus just hijacked it?
I did a rewrite of this game where I tried to make Eddie brick venom (I did it mainly as a thought experiment type thing) and I came to the conclusion very quickly that Harry is so fucking critical to this game that he needs to be the main villain. My solution to this was at first to make him anti venom but tbh it was just kinda lame so I made him carnage instead and had venom as his Peter and miles type sidekick who is convinced to betray carnage. Oh also it kinda went in a more (Arkham city with Batman carrying jokers corpse) direction but more gwen Stacy’s death but mj with a hint of spider-man no more
I vaguely recall the final The Flame mission says that the symbiote in the train was from the new symbiotes popping up everywhere. As in one of the spawns of Venom, so it wasn't around for Norman to give to Harry I could be wrong tho
The cop thing always confused me. I get why they wanted to distance the character due to irl events. But Spider-man fights crime. He's going to need to cooperate with cops in some capacity. And are they not allowed to show spiderman taking down black criminals?
I loved this review, thank you for making it. Troy you're so cool and I watch all your videos. But now seriously, this was a terrific review. I would legit listen to you speak about this game for hours and hours, it's just really pleasant and it even helped me understand some concepts of the game better.
My only hope for the third game is that having Silk as a playable character gives an excuse for them to include skins based on more female Spider-Man characters. I think given that Peter has skins based on Miguel and Hobie, it would only make sense for Cindy to get some Gwen or Spider-Girl skins.
Harry Osborn being Venom already existed 9 years ago with Ultimate Spider-Man (2012-2017), so in reality Spider-Man 2 (2023) borrowed a bit of that version of the character into the game.
7:37 If look it that way, it makes sense. But I still think Peter got nerfed in this game. For someone who has been Spider-Man for 8 to 9 years, it's a bit ridiculous that he fails so much in this in comparison to Miles or any other character in this game. Somtimes Peter gets in situations where his spider sense should have warned him, but he still gets hit so many times that it feels a bit ridiculous and forced to make it so that he needs the suit as fast as possible in this story. If they showed more about aunt May in this story, it could have been more justified to why he's loosing all the time, and also, non of the other characters mentioned that he's loosing all the time, like that's a bit weird. They could have made a scene where Miles is like: yo, your good Pete? Is somthing bothering you, cause you get hit allot while fighting, if i din't saved you, you could have almost died because of Sandman. Like if they put moore hints like this, it would have been more justified to why he gets hit most of the time. And also aunt May was mentioned only mentioned 2 times in this game, and thats not enough.
I don't want to rewrite the secret code, so I will say that I agree with you on pretty much everything and I hope that Insomniac will come threw with an amazing trilogy.
I think this might be related to what was up with Carnage in the comics. The Carnage symbiote is destroyed early on, but before that it modified Kasady's blood to generate copies of it. So this kind of more permanent bond thing is definitely not unheard of for symbiotes. I assume the Carnage DLC will have the Anti-Venom suit purged somehow though, completely cleansed from his system. Maybe as part of a process to destroy the Carnage symbiote. But that's just speculation.
I'm just impressed they managed to combine two bad Harry Osborn stories (TASM2 & the Ultimate Cartoon) and made it good. "I loved this review, thank you for making it Troy you're so cool and I watch all your videos."
You and GodzillaMendoza are really the best comic YTbers I can look to for your perspective on all the new media focused on Marvel and DC. Both of you keep up the good work
I genuinely hated the story, completely tanked my interest in playing anymore insomniac games honestly…I don’t plan on ever returning to Spider-Man 2 like I did for the previous spider games.
Thank you SO MUCH for articulating my problem with the Anti-Venom cop-out. It’s basically saying “hey, that thing you were addicted to that made you confident but also made you a giant asshole? Yeah you can have that with none of the consequences”. Not only is that pretty crappy storytelling, it’s a dangerous message and betrayal of the point.
One idea I have about Spider-Man 3 is that Peter and miles have to fight both Green Goblin and Doc Ock,Peter comes out of retirement, Miles has gotten better at being Spider-Man, and is trying to connect with Cindy (silk) who is very secretive but obsessed with Spider-Man (you’ll see why later) Peter and MJ are trying to find ways to cure harry, (they might be married) and then middle part of the game happens (I suck at writing in between stuff) and it ends with Peter curing harry by giving him the anti-venom suit, making Harry Anti-Venom or “anti-agent-venom” idk, but while fighting Norman and Otto….. Peter dies, happy that he was able to save everyone he cared about,Cindy learns miles is Spider-Man and she reveals that she also has spider powers (deja vu) and it ends with the city now being protected by Miles (now the only Spiderman) Harry (anti-venom or agent “anti”-venom) and Cindy now as silk, with the post credit seen of Peter being reunited with aunt may
to me, ideally, spider-man would be mostly acab, but be willing to work w good cops but hate the bad cops. maybe in ps4, he should’ve used the towers for himself and not let the cops get to it, maybe later he realized “wait, cops are spying on everyone” kinda like ur rewrite of ffh and how peter realized edith was too dangerous
I actually do enjoy how Venom was handled in the game. Yes, it wasn't great. But it really did make me feel emotional, and to be this is the best version of Harry as Venom. Even though this is the second time it happened... but still. The alien invasion, while cliche. Still offers a great set piece of symbiotes taking over the city, and I also love the wings and nods to knull. If they do bring Venom back, I do hope they offer a better story. But I have faith they will. That still doesn't change that. I think this is tbe best Harry Venom story though.
The reason Peter couldn’t give Harry the Anti Venom suit to cure him is because, at least in the comics, it literally fused into the user’s (Eddie Brock’s) DNA, specifically his white blood cells
I loved this review, thank you for making it. Troy you're so cool and I watch all your videos. No but I'm genuinely glad this was a longer vid lol, I enjoyed the beat-by-beat breakdown so much! I actually saved this video for after I finished the last of my college work for the semester lol and I'm glad I did because it was such a fun watch! ALSO ALSO, your points about Peter being relatable in this game are SO true dude, I found myself relating to him deeply as well. As always, great work Troy!
1:16:08 I think the game was trying to convey that Harry was angry, not because of the usual toxic father son dynamic, but because we have Norman praising Peter for being a good friend when Harry and the player knows the exact opposite is true as shown in the previous scene before it. Peter is becoming less invested in helping Harry and is on the line (if not already) actively killing him and Harry can't just explain that to his father. Peter gets to be presented as the good best friend when it's the furthest thing from the truth.
