For my ladies, I want you to get into conversations that are beyond the surface. In this video, I'm sharing a deeper reason and way of approaching submission and humility. Let’s have that convo in the comments. What do these things mean to you? Inspire another woman to go deeper.
Great topic Roxy ❤ I love this video. I've felt pressured to veil socially but not really called spiritually. It's been on and off through the last couple years . I'm still open to whatever the Spirit calls me but right now I dont feel like its needed in my personal spiritual life. God bless your work!
@@thatblackcatholicchick The women I know that wear a veil to Mass are above and beyond the humblest and holiest women I know. We are mature women with me being the youngest at age 55. We are contemplative and daily communicants and spend our lives praying and loving others. There is not one of us who is wearing a veil to attract attention to ourselves, we wear our veil to attract others to Our Eucharistic Lord and to give Him every amount of reverence due to Him in a time of chaos and upheaval in the Church and the world . One of my sisters in Christ is a holy woman and mother of two priests ,she is a role model and beautiful example to all Catholic women. She was a young widow and raised 7 children on her own and two of them are priests.She is above and beyond the holiest person I know.She wears her veil with love for Jesus . I will continue to follow her example. I pray you will reconsider your decision With love in Christ, Michelle McDermott
Thanks Michelle for your comment! I appreciate it. It's absolutely beautiful to hear what your friends do and how beautifully they express their faith. I ask you to please place your prayers in other things for me, not to change my mind about this decision. God knows I need prayers to keep being able to reach more people with His message, and perhaps prayers to be able to continue to live my life in a way that pleases Him. ✝️🙏🏿 As for this, I don't think it's necessary for me anymore. My devotion is beyond an object. Beyond a veil. My entire life is a daily journey spiritual battle that I ask God to keep me submitted fully to His Will and decimating my own. Opening myself fully so He can use me. That doesn't require a veil. I dress modestly and humbly in reverence for Our Lord daily at mass. I leave mass with His body and blood in my entire being to share in communion with others I encounter daily in how I treat them and make them feel. I need prayers to continue that. What I wear or don't wear on my head doesn't change that. I'm covered 24/7/365 in ways I've never been in my life. ✝️🙏🏿
@@bensolo7000 we already spoken about this on the channel. There is absolutely nothing wrong with women submitting to her husband and God. My audience, and myself, understands what this means and we have no problem with submission.
@bensolo7000 my viewers already grasp this. It's usually people who have improper interpretations of the Bible who don't understand this. No one is talking about mutual submission in this conversation even further. I don't have a husband, so who on this planet am I mutually submitting to? You're bringing a highly misinformed comment to this conversation as it has absolutely nothing to do with this topic. And you're also assuming we're idiots who cannot understand what God is teaching us. Stop it.
I would never give up veiling for a human or church. It makes me feel humble at Mass and helps my spirituality in prayer. I also wear the veil at home during my prayer time at home. I will never deny the way I worship my God because of others and that includes the church.
While I don’t wear my veil at home when I pray (though that’s a good idea), I do bring it with me to wear when I do my holy hour at the chapel of a cloistered convent (unfortunately they are not traditional sisters like Benedictines so they don’t do traditional Latin mass). I think I’m the only one that wears a veil during my holy hour though I have seen one or two other women occasionally with a veil.
@@praytherosary7086 when I started doing the Rosary 1/13/23. I felt different my daughter and son in law laughed etc. I kept doing it and walked around with my rosary. A couple of months ago their marriage was heading for divorce. Because my daughter kept seeing the Blessings happening in my life. She gave her husband an Ultimatum. 1. We do the Rosary together every day or night. 2. They did their consecration to the Blessed Mother with Gabi’ 2nd Channel also has the channel Gaby after hours both You Tube. When you pray the Rosary and Give her the Roses (prayer) she will give you the Graces. Today, their marriage is strong they carry their Rosaries everywhere they go and give testimony to others and have become a testimony with a new home they purchased with the statue of the Virgin Mary that the owner gave them in the Back Yard. She is now part of the family and home. She guided them to the house. Before we leave the home we ask each of we have are swords (our Rosaries). My four year old granddaughter even reminds us because she carries her sword also. A lot just wanted to share.
Head coverings are not required by canon law, so it’s a personal choice. Period. You shouldn’t feel bad about doing it, and you shouldn’t feel bad about not doing it. The Church has the authority to make this decision. If one wants to bring up humility, then one should recognize that it requires humility to submit to the Church, even if one doesn’t like a particular decision. You’re free to veil, fast as often as you want, and more. But we’re not free to impose burdens on others that the Church does not herself impose.
It requires humility for the Church to submit to the Bible, which the Church canonised. The Church has no authority to change the Word of God; it does, however, have the authority to interpret where there is a lack of clarity. It is no accident that, historically, women have veiled, and now the veil is seen as unimportant. It is indeed an outward sign, but show me any of the sacraments that are not outward signs. We are becoming confused and increasingly Protestant, while at the same time criticising Protestantism. The joy of Catholicism lies in the Church’s ability to maintain teachings from 2,000 years ago. Diluting those teachings is of Satan, not of God. God does not make mistakes, and the previous Popes and Magisterium were not wrong.
@briebrownn once again the Church doesn't mandate that this is a requirement. What good is it in our culture today if a woman covers her head in church but acts as a woman who is uncovered and not submitted in all ways to God outside of it. This conversation I presented goes up against this very question, and no one seems to be able to engage in the deeper discussion I've actually presented.
@@thatblackcatholicchick Speaking as a woman who does not usually wear a veil at Mass, I guess I’d ask the same question (“what good is it if…etc?) IF it appeared to me that the women with veils did not really believe and live out the Catholic faith; however I have never had that impression at all. I’ve thought it was a pity that most women stopped veiling because the veil expressed such reverence. And in all honesty I feel terribly upset these days at the appalling lack of reverence that I see so often when I go to Mass. I find it so painful.
Well,the point is the evangelical principles evolved by Protestant pastors,a new concept created, more superior than the church believe and tradition,even the Apostles,St Paul in Corinthians did give a clear teaching on this,the from centuries before now has adopted it. This is also the reason why deaconess and priestess is being push forward. Mary ,St Theresa and all woman saints has been modest,humble,decent with all that embodied with it, including veil.Veiling envisaged humility,and accepting that woman in you, especially in Mass in places of devotion and prayer.You may choose your own practice,but don't present it,as if it is absolutely right.Modernist and liberal flows in this vibes.
@@thatblackcatholicchick While I understand that some may choose to forego veiling, this does not diminish the reverence associated with the practice. Scripture clearly supports veiling, even though the Church does not make it obligatory. This raises a concern: as the Church uses the Bible as its authority, it seems paradoxical that it would downplay the very principles it seeks to uphold. It is evident that you had a personal encounter that led you to adopt veiling, which is rooted both in the surface teachings and the deeper meanings of the Bible. To now reconsider the practice due to the Church’s non-compulsory stance is, of course, your decision. However, as someone with influence, similar to a priest, it is important that such matters are addressed in a manner that does not cause confusion or scandal to those who look up to you. Scripture should not be easily dismissed in favour of certain writings of the Church. It is also worth noting that many people hold the Blessed Mother in high esteem, yet often do not reflect her in their appearance. Our attire can influence our behaviour, and vice versa. For those whom you have inspired to veil, it may be worthwhile to consider a follow-up message that preserves the reverence of the practice. There is a growing concern that the Catholic Church is taking on a more Protestant approach, where personal preferences are easily justified by seeking out supportive interpretations. This trend is quite disheartening. Thank you for considering my thoughts on this matter, and I hope for continued growth and reflection in your journey as a Christian
Roxy, I recently stopped veiling about 3 weeks ago. I realized that I was doing it because I felt a sense of guilt. I used to watch a lot of "trad" Catholic video (without realizing it) and felt I was not worshipping God correctly. I noticed I made my daughter feel guilty when one day she did not want to wear it during mass. After deciding not to veil any longer, I explained to her why and told her she can still continue to wear it. She told me that she was only veiling with me because she didn’t want to disappoint me. This moment humbled me so much.
I think this is an important conversation to have. I love the orthodoxy and *small "t" traditions* of the church (veiling is one), but sometimes I feel exhausted by the more radical conversations that take the meaning and doorway to go deeper in faith away from the viewer, and turns everything into a legalistic "dogma" that causes more harm than good. I hope God can forgive me for any fuel I might have added to that fire in the past.
@@Kim-71handle I feel like I'm drawing attention to myself. The fancier the lace the more attention it draws. So for me, I'm better off with a humble scarf, if anything. Somehow I just can't picture the holy ladies of Jesus day decked all out in lace. It seems ostentatious at least for me.
@@pamelaroth3497 I guess I hear what you’re saying but I personally still believe in dressing up in a (modest) “Sunday best” outfit for Mass because that is partly how I show reverence. I think that putting on my prettiest dress for the Lord is a way to honor Him and celebrate His gifts. I also feel happy when Catholic churches are made more beautiful with lovely fabrics, marble, stained glass, and beautiful things to glorify God. To me, a lovely veil says, “Here is a sign that I recognize how blessed I am to be in God’s house. Here is a sign that He is everything.” No matter how gorgeous a woman’s veil in church, I never see one as an attempt to draw attention to the wearer.
@@Featherfinder I just think that true modesty does not draw attention to itself. That could mean different things to different people. We all have our vanities. I know I do. It's just for me personally veiling in exquisite lace would be a stumbling block. I'd have to veil in burlap. 😂
Veiling is a personal choice. I personally find it fruitful because it’s a reminder to submit to God at all times. I like having something physical to remind me of that. I also understand that others like to submit in an internal way. They don’t need to veil or don’t want to. That’s cool. I love the practice and would want more to do it. At the same time, not veiling is also beautiful. They’re different ways of achieving the same thing: submission to God in all that we do. You do you Roxie. 🙏✝️
And as one woman to the next, I challenge you to ask yourself, how is veiling *truly* changing you then? And how are you taking the meaning of the devotional outside of the Mass and into your daily life? Literally no one is having these conversations, and I am challenging us to go beyond the surface.
@@thatblackcatholicchick Firstly, I don't need to be challenged by you. Secondly, veiling changes me and grounds me and I need that change. You don't need to know the reasons behind that. Thirdly, I like looking like my female ancestors when I go do mass. It connects me to them and masses of days long past. Fourthly, my daily devotional practice is between myself and Christ. I stick to it: morning, afternoon, and evening. I enjoy looking like a Catholic woman in a Catholic mass. I submit daily to my Lord and veiling is simply the icing on the cake. No, I will never give it up. Your video is your own 'novelty'. Leave me out of it. I've unsubscribed.
@LMC444111 so you come to my channel and get upset about me sharing *my* experience with my audience and motives to challenge *my* viewers who *want to* go deeper in faith? And further, you made this video all about you and your choices when absolutely no one addressed you or even once mentioned *anything* about any women to stop veiling? Feel free to keep it pushing, sis. I'm not begging you or anyone to stick around.
@LMC444111 in Roxies video and response to you I see Christ. In your response i see only you and your fragile ego that cannot handle any other opinion that doesn't align with your worldview. prideful much? ps. veil as much as you want, but you've just shown me what i though long time ago - that veiling doesn't mean anything and only makes you into holier-than-thou person and mad trad. it's the heart that matters, its the love for the Lord and our neighbor that matters. My boy St. John of the Cross said it the best: “In the evening of life, we will be judged on love alone.” peace be with you
@@LMC444111 I don’t think she was trying to attack you and judge you. I think the point of the video and comment is to really pray on how that outward sign is taking root interiorly and in your life. Not that you need to stop veiling but to allow that sign to take root in your heart.
I responded to you in a comment but wanted to say here: if any sacramental the Church allows causes one to sin, like the veil can cause you to have pride, then it would be best to not veil as you do not have the proper intent when using it. That would go for any object as a sacramental.
I went to Novus Ordo for 14 years. About year 9 of attending after conversion, I felt called to veil. I talked with my Priest at the time and he discouraged me from doing so. He said that, I had a spiritual veil, and that by physically veiling I could be a distraction to others. I know it’s a private devotion so I could still have veiled anyways but I didn’t and felt that longing to do so for another 5 years. I’ve now been physically veiling for 6 years in the TLM and feel so much peace doing so. And doing what God wills is ultimately what we are to do. That looks different for us all. ❤
@@pamelaroth3497lace actually blends more with hair, a scarf being solid stands out more. My black hair with black lace, you sometimes cannot tell it’s even on there.
The ancient Hebrews put on sackcloth and ashes in times of fasting and penance. By Christ's time, the practice had become a religious show, a self-aggrandizing display of piety and devotion. And so Christ taught his followers not to make a display of their devotion, but to keep it secret and even cover it up (Matthew 6:16-18). Outward signs of devotion, like veils and religious medals, are good and beautiful and powerful. However, they can turn into avenues for vanity when one values the thing more than what the thing signifies. Veiling out of a sense of respect and reverence for the Lord is good; veiling because you think you're a "real" Catholic and want to show it off is bad. I myself wear a Miraculous Medal around my neck. It's made out of cheap pewter, strung on a cheap chain, and just big enough that you can tell what it is. Would I like a 14 karat medal on a gold chain? Yup, I sure would. Do I need a 14 karat medal on a gold chain? Nope.
I have a well worn brown scapular. I don’t wear other jewelry now because it tangles up. When I see others who wear scapulars it makes my heart happy to recognize another who is doing the same! When I first started wearing one, my ego felt very self conscious of it. Now it feels so normal. My ego needs to have humility. 😁
After going to the Vatican with my mother in 2003, I felt the need to veil. It was a personal devotion I did for my Lord. Even though I felt very self-conscious, I felt even worse if I didn't veil. As if I lacked the courage to do as I felt He had asked this of me. Now, I don't feel like a total oddball as more women veil at NO mass. Veiling also brought me to the beauty of the TLM. If anyone thinks I feel " holier" than them, that's their issue, not mine. I just want to worship God, the way He wants me to worship Him. Blessings
At Veils by Lily website, an article, Theological Significance of the Veil; here is a quote: “It's a very great mystery. Like Our Lady, every Catholic woman, as a woman, is a living icon of the church. So when she veils herself here, in the presence of Our Lord, it's a visible reminder for all of the spousal relationship - the bridal relationship - between the Church and Christ.”
@@deborahjohnson9877 and what happens when she leaves the church and the veil comes off? Is she no longer in a living icon of the church? A veil does not mandate that. But we being created in the image and likeness of God already does. And we being told to live the Gospel outside of the mass does.
@@thatblackcatholicchick As Catholics we are called to live our faith 24/7. That doesn't change. Mass is different. It is the sacrifice of our Lord and our outward expression is as important. There's a theological concept in the church that was recently discussed regarding this by Matt Fradd from Pints with Aquinas and Ben Shapiro. Another Catholic theology channel has also discussed this regarding us being body and soul and how our outward expression matters. I'm not telling you what to do but just letting you know there's more to this. My wife doesn't wear one but it's up to her. However I wear my miraculous medal outward everywhere I go as our Lady said to wear it with confidence. I'm therefore obligated to behave like a Catholic everywhere I go because people will associate my actions with Catholicism. It's a subtle way of evangelizing.
@@thatblackcatholicchick The Mass is different from the "outside" world. It's not like anyhing else on earth. We enter into that one, infinitely powerful and irrepeatable Holy Sacrifice on Calvary. We veil our heads because we are in the Presence of Our Crucified Lord. But it's ok if you don't wish to veil yourself. Each one has a different way of relating with Christ.
Again, neither Matt Fradd nor Ben Shapiro are authorities on the chruch and Canon Law. Canon Law does not require a woman to veil. So this argument again is moot. No one has a right to tell any woman how to worship and show devotion. A veil isn't required and I don't need an object of this world to be a representation of my life fully submitted to God.
Again... *That is not Canon Law. It is a choice.* One you are free to *choose* as much as others are free to *choose* not to. No one here can attest to anyone's devotion or dedication to God based on a cloth on their head.
This video is faith-awakening... It really gives us the deeper meaning of, "So is outside, should be inside." We should be Catholic, not only through "outward appearances", but also in the heart.
I´m reading through the comments here and think, it`s good. It`s good to have discussions about topics that always seem to be natural for us. I´m a Croatian Catholic from Germany and never ever veiled since it was not part of "our culture" here. I watched several viedeos like Roxys about veiling and found it always interesting and challenging at the same time. I was not used to topics like veiling in church but learned from Roxy and other Catholic women on YT. I never had it in my heart to veil in Mass. I can only say this: those discussions generally help me to question my own intentions, convictions and even my ego. It is nothing we should be worried or concerned about in my opinion. I appreciate discussions and conversations and think, we generally need a culture of healthy debates.We need to understand, that not every Catholic is necessarily right or wrong just because of different understandings of catholic teachings. I remain open about different views like a student who learns throughout life. Roxy,thank you for your heart and your deep thoughts. God bless🙂
I started veiling in 2024 and it was something I wrestled with for a time, but it brings me joy. I also noticed that when veiling begins with a few Mass attendees, it seems to spread. I used to see a few women veiling at Mass, then more and more. I think many women want to but are afraid of standing out. That was true for me at least. But it ended up being the opposite- I feel more hidden when veiling, and more focused in Mass. It helps me with reverence, I think. But I have such a long way to go, so….❤
This is true!! I see so many more women veiling at my parish. At my home parish (in the Bible Belt nonetheless) we have 50% of the ladies and girls veiling now. It's beautiful
Hi Roxie. I thought I’d mention something that stood out to me in the following Scripture passage. “That is why a woman ought to have a veil on her head, because of the angels.” -1 Corinthians 11:10 I have noticed that when it comes to veiling, there is much commentary on the cultural and social reasons for veiling during Paul’s time. However, it appears that there is a spiritual component (angels) that I haven’t been able to find an explanation for. Could Paul be talking about fallen angels (demons)? If he were to be referencing the demonic, are women more vulnerable during their prayer time or worship of God during Mass that wearing a veil would somehow shield women from the lust of the demonic? I joined the Catholic Church two Easter Vigils ago so there is so much I have to learn. I love your channel and appreciate you wanting to go deeper with regard to the Catholic faith. What a breath of fresh air! God bless.
It's a personal choice that you don't have to explain to anyone. I agree with you that the veil does humble you, but if you felt the need to take it off, there is a reason. Always trust your gut. ❤❤❤
Thank you! And, yes, absolutely. I also do think it is something that needs to be discussed. We have many discussions of why to veil. And I think that once you veil, it needs to transform you. In my case, it leads to something beyond what a physical object can give me. We have a lot of women who for whatever reasons may choose not to veil, and this is also a good convo to inspire them to go deeper with what the symbolism means beyond the veil - that still applies to them.
Christ is supposed to humble you. No physical material is supposed to humble you in regards to being in subject to God and Christ. These are Bible truths.
Reading many comments on this topic, I feel it's useful to point out that it is generally a bad sign when people seek to practice (and measure) their faith by what they can get away with--or don't have to do--than by what they CAN do or give for the greater glory of God!
I'm brought to tears very often at Mass- every time I appreciate the veil allowing for that without being a spectacle. This isn't my main reason for veiling, which is the humility I was struck with as a convert, but an amazing additional benefit.
The Lord showed me I would cover my head again back in the early 80s. I had grown up with it since I was born in 1951! Our family started in the mid-90s after our oldest attended Christendom College. I and my 3 youngest daughters still do and the older 2 daughters do not but will, say for a sister's wedding. We don't even think about what others may be thinking and never talk about it and people rarely ask us about it. But if my mantilla got left out of my purse, I will attend Mass without feeling bad about it. We go to some Diocesan Latin Masses but sing in the choir of a church with the Ordinary Form and raised our 7 kids there. They all stayed Catholic, married strong Catholics and now we have over 30 grandkids! God is very good and we are blessed!
Recently my thoughts on veiling are slightly changing too. I was veiling when I am in a state of grace because I thought we veil things that are sacred. I liked veiling because it truly humbled me to cover my hair and not worry about vanity. ..But , I have noticed on social media that it's become a divisive issue. I don't want to be a source of division. I don't want to stand out or call attention to myself, because that is a type of pride. So, I'm in a state of mind where I'm not quite certain of my position on veiling at this time. I completely respect other women's decision to veil and understand that it's a personal choice. People who do it, I believe are doing it for good reasons, just like women who may choose not to.
I have often felt that spiritual veil around me. This is all part of your walk with Christ. Thank you for being so open with your viewers and taking the time to explain. You know your gonna catch a lot of flack from this. We all must stand up into who Christ wants us to be, regardless of what it looks like. A daughter after His own heart. May our Lord continue to bless and guide you.
There’s also the matter of the angels according to that passage in Corinthians. They accompany the consecration and for some reason the veiling seems to help the angels. Perhaps there is such spiritual warfare that the veil is a signal of holiness and submission to God -it’s helpful. Most women who veil dress to accompany the veil. Def more modest and beautiful thought goes into it. It’s also become more popular for men to wear ball caps in church. Seemsdusrespectful . St Paul really dislikes that. When I’ve attended a Latin mass it sure is beautiful to see the veil on every lady of every race. The veil doesn’t seem appropriate in a Protestant church more cultish looking if done. I’m hoping veiling will attract Muslims to convert.
I am so sad you’re leaving! I am in OCIA and will be baptized at Easter 2025, and I just want you to know how grateful I am for everything you have shared. Your videos have been really instrumental in my conversion from non denomination Protestantism, including this video! I really value your insights on veiling, and it makes me very sad that you feel misunderstood to the point of quitting?!? It’s a strange time in the church for new converts. People like you really help! Thank you, God bless you and Pax Vobiscum! 😢❤
Roxie I’m so sorry some of these comments are feeling like you’re attacking. As a woman who veils but isn’t quite sure why, thank you for giving me a new perspective to consider!! Love you and all your videos!🙏🏻❤
I would consider myself a traditionalist. But I have attended novo's ordo masses that feel as reverent as Latin. It all depends on the priest. I once saw a veiled woman checking Amazon order during a mass.
As I mentioned in another comment, there are many veiled women who do so at mass and when they leave they do not carry that level of humility in their lives in how they treat others. Same with men who consider themselves devout in prayer and mass, but act anything but in life or in particular online. We have to start being consistent. Or really, what are we doing then? The devotionals no longer matter in that case.
I saw a woman veiled with a mini dress and showing tons of cleavage. I am not a "Traditionalists" and I was slightly offended. Veiling should be about modesty not fashion.
i do not veil, because i was born into islam, & i feel revulsion about it. however, i would not mind wearing a beautiful hat, if it were not seen as being weird or if i could afford one.
there are so many fancy hats online like on amazon that won't make someone look weird or stand out - like a beret, or paperboy hat, many classy low kwy options that wont have you stand out like a sore thumb ❤🙏 hope this helps Also welcome to the family ❤🙌 God bless
More important than a hat or a veil... Is your heart, mind, soul, body, and life in full submission to God so that His perfect Will and not yours is what guides your life? When you stand before Our Lord in judgement, He isn't going to ask you if and how many times you covered your head vs how many times you opened yourself as fully as the Blessed Mother so He can use you to bring others to Him... And if you answered that call.
I am divorced from a muslim and also hated the veil at first due to the Islamic attitudes I had been exposed to. I ended up wearing one after returning to my fairh because the Catholic veil is only worn in church-- unlike in islam. To me if all is sacred nothing is sacred, and muslims don't get that (reflected in their veil wearing). Christians wore it first (we are older than islam). We don't wear it to cover "dirty hair" or "keep it for our husband" as muslims do. We can wear transparent ones which to me reflect the 3 dimensional view of how Christians view the body. We just seem to cut a fuller figure imo-- wearing tailored clothing, more detail etc. And finally I never heard of a catholic priest beating a woman for showing her hair. As you can tell I thought about it a lot. But I get it!
You are absolutely glowing! To submit ourselves completely to God really is the ultimate reality of veiling, isn't it? I just started OCIA this month, and veiling has been a key part of my journey.
I always love your videos and I'm so thankful to see your witness. Some thing I would like to point out, veiling is not just about submission, but is also about protection, protecting and honoring what or who is being veiled. It used to be normal that the sacred vessels at mass were veiled at certain points of the mass, meaning these objects are sacred, should be honored and protected and the same goes with why women and religious are veiled. Right now we are undergoing an attempted Eucharistic revival, and I think veiling both the vessels, and women choosing to Vail both point towards reverencing the Eucharist. When we stopped veiling both women and the vessels, the Eucharist, all have been dishonored over the last 60 years. I'm not saying women should be required to veil again, but it's more than just submission it's a matter of showing respect to women who are sacred, because they cooperate with God's life-giving plan Through their maternity. When you go to Rome and other ancient cities with ancient churches, the churches are built one on top of the other and the older church is not completely torn down, but added onto or built on top of. This is how the Catholic tradition operates, we don't tear down the old, we build on it. Over the last 60 years things have been stripped away, veil removed And we in a lot of ways have forgotten where we have come from. Let's not tear down, let's build up. Thank you for your video.
I was the only one veiling in our large N.O. area for about 3yrs, then our parish secretary started, then eventually about 3 more within 6-7 yrs later. We moved mid-state and VERY N.O. - so noisy/talking, no reverence to Jesus in the tabernacle. Priests didn’t genuflect or barely bowed. It was really hard to focus at Mass. Everyone received casually in the hand. Again, I was the only one receiving on my knees on the floor on the tongue- the priests were not sure what to do. Some, I could tell were disapproving, but continued for our Lord to give HIM His due. Thank God for my veil, because wearing it allowed me to focus better and feel like I was covered with Him. I went to several churches wearing my veil and NO ONE else veiled for, again, 6 yrs! Now, there’s anywhere from 2-5 veiling depending which church I went to. Plus with a few TLMs popping up about a half hour to hour away over the past 8 yrs and Now becoming at some parishes a mix of N.O./some trad elements, even Gregorian Chant!!! I started veiling because when our new priest, the years before I moved, had pamphlets out, why to veil. It was so beautiful. A way to practice modesty. So outward appearance wouldn’t distract others, esp men or the priest. And that the Holy is veiled in the Church. The tabernacles used to be veiled, the chalice on the altar was veiled and women veiled because of their womb that gives life. It made sense to me and the Lord drew me to it in my heart. It’s a sacrifice, because I KNOW people that I was a nut! But, I hung in there anyway, with the grace of God! I won’t stop veiling because it was tradition from the time of Jesus until Vat II. I get your deeper feeling. But is it just “feelings”? Was it coming from God or the anti angel of “light” who likes to whisper in our ear and second guess what we do. Just a thought because he’s working overtime to do anything he can to keep people from the sacred. God bless! The N.O. I go to for weekday Mass, many are receiving on the tongue and a few of those on their knees! Don’t ever be afraid to be the only one, it starts to catch on. The TLM is growing like wildfire at least in the state I live.
I'm not sold on the idea that veiling in Mass is a good way of avoiding being a temptation to men. That implies that only attractive women ought to consider veiling, which opens a whole can of worms. I'm not an especially attractive woman -- I seriously doubt that my appearance is appealing enough to be a distraction for any man, especially given that many of them are looking at far more beautiful women in porn, on OnlyFans etc. Given that I'm only average at absolute most, I'm no threat to male purity. Should I not bother to veil then?
I started to veil when I was brought back to the Church and humbled before God. I refuse to walk before the Lord without my head covered. I am his humble servant in everything.
I find the strong reactions against your de-veiling telling of a certain spiritual immaturity, one that clings on to externals to judge the spirituality of self and others. True holiness and sanctification consists of obedience. We can debate the merits or demerits of the change in veiling practice, but the fact of the matter is that the Church, the true Church led by the Holy Spirit now (not just until 1962) does not require veiling. It is a matter of practice not of dogma. There is the critical difference. Dogma is immutable, practice varies over time and place. The Church does not now command veiling, therefore the Catholic of today is not bound by obedience in that regard, therefore doesn't betray it. It does us no good to impose our own laws onto the Church which is still One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic. What is important is the spiritual Law of Spirit and Truth, about which Roxy, you are dead on! Also, as a side note, St Mary Magdalene lived the rest of her life in the mountains of France wearing only her hair for clothes.
Your video offers a different perspective on veiling and I thank you for that, that is food for thought. However I don't totally agree with your statement about staying "hidden". Jesus was hidden for the first 3 decades of his life because his time had not yet come. But he did not stay hidden once his time had come, and I feel that likewise, the time has come for confirmed catholic who embrace the faith to be outwardly, as those external signs do play an important role in Evangelization. As a person who was raised in a place where I had never seen a nun in real life, or a priest wearing a cassock in a public place, or anyone wearing a cross around their neck, or veiling or what have you, I have been raised by parents who where atheists and knew nothing about Christ, and as a result was an atheist myself for the better part of my life. But I felt drawn to the faith because of the beauty of churches and cathedrals, I started taking the faith seriously when I saw people dressing up nicely for mass, women wearing veils and staying on the floor in a posture of complete reverence during adoration, I started believing in the real presence when I saw people getting on their knees to recieve the Eucharist. Even to this day, when I don't feel like I am taking much out of mass, I always feel lifted up by people singing strongly or making their dedication visible in one way or the other. Maybe none of those things is decisive in one's personal relationship to God, to be sure. But the faith and how we worship is not only about us but about sharing it with others, and to that respect I feel like those outwardly signs play a big part, because at least it is making the faith less "foreign" to those outside of it. They are giving it substance, making it real and tangible especially in a context of advanced dechristianization in the West. I, for one, probably would not have come to Christ otherwise.
These are good points, and the comment about hidden is in outward objects. We don't need objects to profess our faith. So much of the conversation online is about how objects somehow validates or invalidates one's spirituality or devotion, or humility in the presence of God. This isn't scriptural. What is scriptural is that that we are told to be the Light of the World and the Salt of the Earth, so that when others see our deeds and our actions they give glory to God, the Father. How we act, live, and treat people is far more important than an outward object. St. John of the Cross talks about this attachment to devotionals and sacramentals in his quintessential work Dark Night of the Soul. How many have a spiritual gluttony rooted in objects of devotion, and how part of uprooting that is to detach from these things to reach a higher devotion to God. The object isn't of importance. How one lives every single day is. How one treats another day to day is. Both those in the Body of Christ, and those we are tasked to bear witness to whom we need to spread the gospel to - and bring them into the fold. So much of the conversation online and the embrace of veiling seems to be these superficial reasons that truly, aren't rooted in scripture and are (if we are truly going to be honest) rooted in *small "t" tradition* not true dogma. My goal is to have that conversation, one that challenges all who hear it to go beyond the surface.
@@thatblackcatholicchicka veil is seen as a sacramental, like other things in our faith the objects are just that, but are meant to remind us of the deeper hidden things our faith has to offer. The beauty our faith offers from stained glass windows and statues are also not needed for the faith but are reminders of aspects of our faith and are good so long as they are used in their proper manner. As Catholics we are accused of praying to statues, which we know is not true. They serve as a reminder of our friends the Saints, and likewise a veil can be an outward reminder of the special role women have in God’s creation.
@davyrantucci but again it is not required. Besides that's not what this video is about. This is a conversation about women going deeper than the symbol, and further challenging how that devotion is changing their lives and spirituality far beyond mass.
@@thatblackcatholicchickyes you’ve stated that several times, but I’m not sure what part I’m not getting into for you? It’s a sacramental, the Church allows these objects to point us to a deeper understanding of the faith. The veil has many things that it symbolizes; being under protection of God and a Husband, being feminine and different than the men in creation, it is a reminder to men of how the most precious things(like women) are veiled because in Mass the chalice etc is veiled until the consecration etc.
This is your personal journey, so I'm not criticizing you. I don't veil - mostly out of vanity (there's only one other person who veils at my parish; and I am the weirdo in the back of the church already lol). So with all that in mind, my thought is: I think the physical gives body to the spiritual. That is what Catholicism has taught me. I wish I was at a spiritual maturity where I would be veiling at Mass; I have begun to in Adoration a couple times and that's a start.
Thank you, thank you, thank you for articulating what I think myself and many Catholic women feel. We can still be devout, orthodox, practicing Catholics while still supporting Vatican II and the associated practices.
As a new Catholic in a congregation where very few women veil, I felt that if I were to start it would be seen as trying to be holier than anyone else or "more Catholic than cradle Catholics". For this reason I thought it wd be more of a distraction for everyone than if I didn't veil. Also I feel that, if I start, I always have to do it (it becomes very awkward to discontinue).
Do you see that being self conscious of what others think is the vice of vanity and pride? If anyone makes you feel uncomfortable, bring yourself and your veil to the traditional Latin Mass.
Beautiful. All of our faith journeys are different. The key is to always listen to Our Lord and follow the Holy Spirit in our lives. Devotions and habits will surely change as we change - and change we should - we are trying to be Perfect like God and get to Heaven.
When I veil, I concentrate more on God and as a consequence, I won't stop crying during Mass. I decided to stop veiling because of my crying. However, I love seeing women veil. I know it pleases God.
I cry a lot at mass too, not really knowing why most of the time, and my Priest said it is the Holy Spirit working in me. I would veil and let the tears flow!
I think it is a personal choice. And when St. Paul talked about women covering their heads, he was addressing a certain group of women at a certain and basically telling them to separate themselves from the prostitutes at the time. And this is just my 2 cent, Jesus's sacrifice and resurrection is sufficient for us. We do not have to be upheld to the law. I love being Catholic and I don't think I am any less Catholic for not veiling. I think veils are beautiful and I respect other women's choices to do so. But, it should be a choice. With love, Nat! ❤❤
I forgot to mention that I love what you said about spiritual veiling. I relate to that. I also love your authenticity and love for the Lord. God bless you and keep the good fight! ❤
Everyones journey to God is different. I grew up wearing a chapel veil, ( when it was MANDATORY for women to veil in The House of God)) then fell away from the Church for many years. When I came back I didnt veil, because noone was, which seemed "normal" to me at the time. Then, one day after Holy Mass, I was in thanksgiving prayer and something happened after Mass that led me to realize how irreverent we are in Gods House! A lady literally was sitting on the back of the pew laughing hysterically with the other churchgoers..threw her head back and shouted Oh! My God!" loudly!!! I immediately asked Gods forgiveness for her and put my head down and prayed harder. Does that make me holier than her? NO! (Judge not lest ye be judged comes to mind.) I was not veiled but was trying to thank God for allowing me the opportunity to attend Holy Mass. Something came over me deep in my heart. The Holy Spirit, Im assuming. ❤ I sought out the Traditional Latin Mass that I was used to attending as a young girl. By God's Grace I found one within 5 miles of my home. I went back to veiling after much discernment. I realized then how we need to be reverent in God's house regardless if you veil or not. Noone veiled at my previous parish and the irrevevence was in stark contrast to my new parish where the TLM is offered on Sundays. Although not all, but more women veil at this new parish and the reverence here is more noticeable. Is that a coincidence? I think not...my new parish also has kneelers..even at NO Mass. My old parish did not. Does attending a Holy Mass veiled make me holier?..I highly doubt it. What veiling does do is keep my sight in check and allows me to pray and attend Holy Mass with blinders on so to speak....lol. In the end its noones business if someone chooses to veil or not. I do..my daughter and granddaughter dont. God loves them just the same, Im pretty certain of that. 😊❤❤❤ Anyhoo..sorry for going on and on...God Bless you. Roxie! Thanks for your honest sharing! You are incredible! Ave Maria!
When I started going to mass for the very first time, I saw women veiling and it was SO fascinating to me, I thought that it was beautiful. It reminded me once when I was a little girl and I put a pillow case over my head and rocked a pillow like a baby and pretended I was Mary at Christmas. Then I thought how this was the only place and context where I’d be able to wear this special thing, and I just liked it and really wanted to. When I looked up where it comes from and why women did it, the whole modesty reason for it didn’t sit right with me. It felt kinda holier than thou. Idk, I know that I’ve started to become a bit more neurotic about the veiling, but I think this video is a good reminder of why I started in the first place. I want to continue veiling, but I want to reorient myself toward the lighthearted beauty and joy of why I started it to begin with
I used to veil as well until maybe 1.5 years ago when I became more active in the parish and actually interacted with some of the people who veiled. I didn't want to be included with people who veiled so others would see my devotion and think "wow she's so devoted" or "wow she's a snob", I wanted to *live* my devotion more so I didn't feel right wearing a veil anymore. I'm now a postulant of the Lay Dominicans and have tools to live my devotion even more without physical things that I may or may not be misusing because of my fallibility as a human fighting personal spiritual battles. My choices (including head-to-toe wardrobe) and self-awareness are where my humility and penance come from vs. the veil. If that makes sense. lol
Who cares what people think!!!!! It’s not about anyone but you and Christ. Wear your veil and ignore everyone there but our Lord. There’s a lot of self conscious comments here. Maybe that’s why I abstained from Novus Ordo for 41 years. If I hadn’t found a TLM chapel near me 3 years ago, I may never have had the sacraments again. I’m not holy enough to benefit spiritually from the N0, and belong at the TLM, and happy to cover my head.
I dress modestly. I never wear pants, always a non clinging skirt and to my ankles. Always a cardigan or cover over my top. Although i live in a hot state. I do not veil. I notice many who veil wear short skirts and r immodest otherwise. An older woman told me my hair was beautiful but she didn't want to distract anyone. Seemed she was trying to shame me. O well.
I commend your courage in adhering to Christ's teachings on modesty. Your actions truly reflect the principles outlined in Pope Pius XI’s "Decree on Modesty", which emphasised the importance of modest dress as a reflection of Christian virtue. The Popes, understanding the threats posed by movements like Freemasonry, recognised how women were often used to distract and undermine the spiritual focus of men, making it harder to maintain a Christ-centred life. As men, we sometimes struggle with these distractions and appreciate any effort that helps us remain focused on our faith. However, remember not to measure your holiness by the actions of others. Our Blessed Lord and His Holy Mother remain the ultimate models of Christian life and virtue. Ave Maria
I love your channel and love your message. I veil and not because of traditional reasons. One of the most beautiful things about the church is how much room there is for variance but unity all at once. Be who God called you to be and keep it coming!
Thank you for your profoundly spiritual words. Makes me feel rather immature in the Faith, and rather shallow. Please pray for people like me who muddle along without any deep understanding of these matters.
Aw no! I don't want you to feel that way at all. Instead what I hope is that it inspires you to go deeper. In my space at least, I want to always challenge each other to look far beyond the surface and get raw. Trust me, God has been raking me through the coals so I can be a witness to others and just help bring His people closer to Him. So just see what of what I shared hit you. And then just pray that God puts the desire in your heart to see how that might transform you!
@@maryoregan6770 don’t be content to muddle along. Deeper insight comes with deliberate prayer and reading of the Word, thinking carefully about what is written. The Bible is God’s message to His creation and we should read it carefully. Some new insight always develops each time we do.
I started veiling because I felt called to but was very shy to stand out. After covid I felt weird wearing a mask at Mass so I made it double uncomfortable by veiling as well. It brought me a sense of peace and eventually brought me to be okay with femininity. I felt God did this and transformed me through veiling. I am not strict with veiling and think it's a personal devotion. I've thought about if I have any daughters I will show them that veiling is a personal choice and just because I do it doesn't mean they have to. Or vice versa. It did take me a while to get to this point of view. I think women should dress modestly for Mass, but women don't HAVE to veil to show reverence.
Yes if I could wear a mask, I could wear a veil. During covid I made about 15 veils and chapel caps of different colors to match clothes from lace bought by mail. I wear them at mass out of respect for Christ in the Eucharist. I am under secular vows, single, vowed to virginity for life and not ordered to wear veils etc. but I think it sets aside the sacred time we have at mass to with Christ in the Eucharist. Therefore, respect for Christ in the Eucharist is the reason for the veil. Period. When I first took my promises, I wore hats, which were too showy and really a focus on me no Jesus. So wear the veil for Christ's presense.
Welcome home girl 🙏🏼🙏🏾🙏🏿🙏🏽, many many many many will not understand the profound depth of your conversion, I have lived this conversion and continue to convert with Gods Will every second of my life, Gods Will is not negotiable in my life, to understand the surrender of all that we were to the Creator of whom we are to be, takes complete humility, and some insist that a little piece of cloth on their head will separate their pride from their hearts. I have sadly experienced snobbery with many head covered women, it is not an act of reverence to God if you can't smile at others with love. Love one another as I have loved you
Amen sister! Oh trust, we will absolutely dig deeper in the convo of His Will and out surrender. It's absolutely life changing, and scary at the same time. ✝️😭👏🏿🙏🏿💓
Remember that in the Presence of the Pope while at the Vatican you MUST vail. So, it can’t just be something optional since there is a required time to do it.
The call isn't for anyone to stop or start. But what I am challenging is for women to go deeper into why. The conversation on RU-vid and other spaces keeps this devotion on a very surface level. I am challenging women to allow the act of the sacramental to change them in a way that is far beyond simply wearing a head covering at mass. No one seems to be discussing that. That's what I would love to foster here. ✝️
@@thatblackcatholicchickI only started veiling and I completely agree with you about digging into the why. It’s a lot easier to stop veiling if we don’t know why we do it. I was convicted while trying to educate my sons on why they had to take off their hoodies at mass. In that same passage it talked about women veiling but I ignored it and a voice within convicted me on that. I had to pray for a long time but I knew what I had to do but I still did not understand. One day after communion I asked God about this whole veiling practice and I heard very clear words that said “the moment women took off the veil, they started taking other things off”. This is my story. Veiling is about restoring modesty and humility in worship because God deserves it. And yes it should reflect the inside but does not negate it even if it doesn’t. My opinion 😊
I stopped veiling during mass because I felt that it made me feel this religious sense of pride, I felt like I was doing it for the people and not for God. But I still highly appreciate it and I find it beautiful, I hope that one day, when I become humble in my faith I will start wearing it again as a sign of Gods glory upon my head. ❤
Such a beautiful video. You are such an inspiration! *Thank-you* I used to be involved in Opus Dei and so your homeboy is close to my heart. While watching your video i thought of the saying, "Preach the Gospel and when necessary, use words." I believe you are right: when we actively, deliberately, submit our lives to God, everything else is superfuous in regards to the lesser, external realities. I'd like to recommend to everyone one of my favorite books written by Cardinal Sarah "God or Nothing". Such a gem. I'm hoping he will be the next Pope.
Thank you Roxy for this perspective! This is indeed a topic that is discussed only in a surface level. It hasn't been that long that I started veiling. My major reason for starting to veil was to encourage people to give the reverence that we should have for God, as I can only attend the Novus Ordo mass and alot of things are done wrongly. Indeed the veil helps especially that I would be more focused on the liturgy. I also understand its meaning. But as I have reflecting in my path of TRUE HUMILITY, I chose to give up wearing the veil as of now. I dont think it is good to be wearing it without examining how have I been as a Christian lately. It is a beautiful clothing with such deepe meaning but if I am someone who doesnt apply the suppose to be lesson behind veiling, then I should give it up as of now and try to fix what needs to be fixed, though it is also possible by God's grace alone.
I actually headcover full time because of a lot of the reasons you mentioned. I had become very prideful and vain about my hair and did a lot of elaborate updos wanting attention. The Lord opened my eyes to my vanity when I started veiling at mass. After a few years, I submitted to Him and started covering my hair whenever I left the house. Since i live in the bible belt in the south i dont stand out so much and blend a bit as you stated. Although in this case people are VERY surprised when they find out I'm a catholic and headcover. 😂
As someone who went to Mass in the 50s and 60s, I cannot understand where these retro women get the idea of "veiling". If you look at film of people leaving Mass in the pre- V. II era, you see plainly that women wore stylish hats, not veils, unless they were immigrants from a country where veils were popular. I would actually like to see women in stylish hats at church, as well as the whole congregation better attired and less casual. It is true that many women, when they went downtown hatless, would keep a doily, or "chapel veil", in their purse, because it was popular to make a visit to the blessed sacrament when near the church, and church law required women to cover their heads when entering a church. But veils? Only old immigrant ladies. I wonder where this odd idea came from?
I think it depends on the culture indeed. I grew up around a lot of Italians in NYC. So you saw many of them wearing veils - many of the older women in particular when I was growing up. But women were also very much wearing hats in the 50s/60s in the US like you mentioned. Veils would also have been seen more in Latin American countries. In the US you'd have more of that influence from Mexico and the immigrants who brought the more European Spanish culture by way of veiling. And likely to have seen this more in the western states. As with all things that come around I think people start to gravitate towards what is seen as more idealic and beautiful. So the appeal towards the mantilla is understandable in our culture which craves a more hard-core tradition in response.
I respect the concept of being hidden. I really do, but I couldn't imagine simply applying it to veiling in Mass or not, since how hidden can you really be? We aren't in a grocery store. It's Mass surrounded by hopefully other devout people, so I tend to just remember the presence of our Lord in the Tabernacle. Based off of that I would then argue that I have also had that spiritual veil, but for me it only makes me want to veil more not less. Plus, physically veiling that which is Sacred is still a real thing. I knew that Roxie would have a relatively reasonable answer for this though. I still disagree lightly because at the end of the day as human beings we are both body and soul after all. We can have our spiritual veils and physical ones. Y'all please pray for me, because I'm noticing another potential spiritual battle coming. EDIT: Roxie send me some of your veils then lol I know you have a whole collection 😂
Lol nah I'll still wear them likely for special occasions and when I feel I need to keep that pride in check. 😂 All I can say to make it maybe more clear is like this... Imagine how the Blessed Mother must have been to be so trusting in God that when He tells her the impossible is about to made possible, and in the real world that possible could have gotten her exiled or killed. And her response wasn't to run but instead was, absolutely YES, let it be done! The amount of trust, abandonment of fear, full submission, and obedience is so great that it surpasses anything anything in this universe can ever contain. That is what I'm talking about veiling physically *needs to* challenge every single one of us to be. No excuses. That is what I'm striving and praying for. Complete abandonment and submission to God and His perfect will in my life. And no earthly object can satisfy nor encompass that. So for me, what I held onto so strongly as an outward sign no longer suffices nor has meaning like that. I have no attachments to a cloth. And how God is transforming this in *me, myself* at least has me falling at His feet washing them with my tears and hair. What I'm saying in this video is ladies, go deeper. There's more to it.
Roxy this video. Wow. I am totally here for it. All these people saying they will never give up their veil for anything. What about for Jesus? What about for His church? The churches greatest virtue in line with the Cardinal virtues is obedience which compliments and grows humility. Detach or Purgatory will burn away your attachment to that thing. Reminds me of what Jesus said about whitewashed tombs. We should all reflect on why we are veiling and if it is just an attachment or pride.
Being Holy, does not have anything to do with veiling or not. Many people really focus on their feelings, you can feel nothing and be holy. we are called to BE holy, not feel holy.
I understand the movement to focus on inward devotion. However, in the last decades I feel like there have been a lot of attempts to make Catholics (and Christians in general) ashamed of their faith and hesitant to participate in any outward signs of devotion because that is read only as "holier than thou" behaviour. We have seen a huge disappearance of faith from public life. I am not speaking to Roxie's personal decision to stop veiling, but just to the general conversation around it because I simply think we are too critical of veiling and other outward signs of devotions in general. There is an atmosphere of fear and self-doubt that creeps in about how others will react whenever I feel inspired to do something that shows on the outside the love and gratitude that I am feeling on the inside (like veiling, kneeling and praying and public, prostrating etc) and I think it's unhelpful to feed into those doubts by focusing the conversation around whether people who veil are too prideful. For example, I know way more people who are struggling because they are afraid to reveal their Catholic identity to co-workers than I know people who are too prideful from veiling. I know far more people who are afraid of their love for God being seen than those who have taken outward devotion too far. It is a difficult distinction between being Pharisaic and hiding your light under a bushel. However, I think in this present age of lukewarmness and a society that has fallen away from faith, it is better to air more on the side of being countercultural and sticking out a bit because of your faith rather than trying to blend in so as not to cause offense. I think that perhaps Roxie has reached a place where after intense spirtual cultivation and being Catholic "out loud," she can withdram from outward shows of devotion to focus on humility. However, I think the bigger problem for the average Catholic is lukewarmness and fear of how the world will react to their faith.
Let us not give to human pressure. We follow the Lord's teaching. I always kneel when receiving the our Lord in Holy Eucharist. Why? Because He is too big and I can't contain Him in my human context.
I have thought of veiling and honestly never did. For some reason, the signal I perceived is that: I am a better Catholic because I veil and don't. I am a saint, and you are not because you don't veil. How dare you come to mass without a veil. It never ever sends me the correct message. In other words I think attitudes and personalities becomes louder than the veil. I can sense through the veil everything except respect. In addition, I think that maybe a hoodie will do me better for my personality or a shawl ... who knows, one time I saw a lady with a bucket hat, and I loved her. I think authenticity and honesty are the names of my game because who you gonna fool God knows your ❤😂 Imagine wearing the veil and being mean Just my opinion.
What does not make sense to me is covering your head while your shoulders are showing, covering of the head is all about modesty, and showing obedience to God. Now, one is really not showing obedience by wearing a for example skin jeans and top tanks and then a veil in the head( it is not that veil that works a miracle, it is the whole atitude towards)it just shows you have no ideia what you are doing, and the problem with todays world is, the humble and obedience is not there at all, as if one teaches about this, people with already be defensive, saying things like "God knows my heart" who are you to say anything, and the list goes on. Maybe the someone who is teaching is someone who has been there, did the wrong things, did not have anyone to correct and know is juts trying to help a sister out by telling her how exactly God wants us to present ourselves to HIM. And Im purely talking about the outside, and YES it DOES matter To HIM( and please dont start looking for justifications such as " oh if it is a poor person that can not afford proper clothes" because, for that person it is justified, but not for you who have a choice. Please look up the message of Our Lady of La Salete and Fátima, Mother Mary said that there would be fashions that would offend Our Lord greatly...
I was taught vailing as a woman. It is purity and chastity to God. Or until as a gift to save. And keep yourself only to your husband who you become one. Gifted to each other. Women carry life. Our husband protects us.
My dear Black Catholic Chick-------------you are living the innate confusion God poses to all of us. It is not about external presentation. i only started veiling when i understood my sins needed to be hidden when approaching the Eucharist. YOU ARE WHERE YOU ARE. DO NOT ADHERE TO SOME **** A 'better than' CHILD OF GOD because NO ONE IS BETTER THAN YOU, OR ANYONE ELSE. Love. m...
Visuals of spiritual realities can be helpful but I never thought veiling was necessary. Marg Mowczko has published research on scriptures that speak to veiling which led me to think it was not necessarily God’s intent for women to veil.
God bless! I'm glad you've had a deeper devotion in submitting to Jesus. We can all pray that each of us have that deeper devotion ourselves. My understanding is that a veil can be that for some women at times and others it might become more of a distraction. Let's not judge anyone's heart who chooses to veil or not veil. That is only for God to understand and judge. I do like that this practice of veiling is being talked about. I'm an adult convert and so I never grew up with seeing the church when veiling was a common practice. Personally, I love seeing the connection of Mama Mary and her covering to us modern day women when we cover. It see it as beautiful. For some it might be little b beautiful and others big B Beautiful (bring them closer to God).
I do not veil but, maybe one day I will. Who knows? Submitting to the will of God is complete humility, which is to say, “I am less. He is more.” When women, veil, they are hiding themselves in him. Veiling helps some women focus, diminish, quiet the noise and calm the distractions around to completely open their temple for him to dwell. Some are called, some are not. It does not mean, that it’s only for show. It does not mean that these women don’t have the desire to be hidden. No one has to go deeper unless God is calling them to that path. Veils are not surface level and they shouldn’t be looked at as impossible to go hand and hand with humility. They do. The Greatest woman in the universe, ever created wears a veil which aligns with not only her perfect submission to God, but, also her glorious humility. Ave Maria! I would never even think that veiling is an attachment that is furthering women from God. If women struggle with it and chose to not wear it. Cool. If they wear one. Cool as well.
I don't even understand all this reflexion around the veil. I didn't know women were thinking over it like this. You can do whatever you want. No one is going around in the churches checking if you wear the veil or not. I don't know. This discussion seems odd to me. I veil and I don't care about what other people may think. Sometimes I forget my veil and I don't feel bad either. For me, it's a non issue.
St. John of the Cross talks about in Dark Night of the Soul how folks often fall into the trap of attachment to devotionals and how it is a form of Spiritual Avarice. We are seeing this in real time.
When I first reverted to Catholicism, I felt called to veil but was pretty shy about it. As I explored the faith more, I became disillusioned with the practice of veiling due to its association with the more fundamentalist, radical side of the Catholic faith, which I absolutely want no part of. I am by no means a "liberal or progressive" Catholic but I greatly dislike the self-righteousness, holier-than-thou attitude that characterizes the traditionalists. Not that they're all like that, obviously but it's just been my experience.
I see what you're saying, it's the opposite for me. I had bad experiences with people who thought Jesus was a hippie and are very lukewarm that they don't take the faith or Sacraments seriously. I really don't like people who shrug off the faith like it's some cultural thing or act like they know so much about Catholicism despite having fallen away and no longer practice anymore. It's why I wanted to become a hardcore traditionalist, only to find out that one can go too far. lol
First, excellent video, as per standard! I'm not the target audience for this vid, but wanted to bring something up that might be of use; just a few things I've found in my own spiritual life: - I generally check myself whenever I feel like, "I understand this now, so I don't need to do xyz that I was doing before." Very seldom is there a removal of some point of guidance; generally the guidance just changes. For example, one daily prayer might become another daily prayer. Removing a prayer might instead become a scheduled time of relaxation, or some other discipline (because I work more than I should and don't sleep enough). I write this partially because it sounds like there is a deepening related to the removal of the veil, but it's more coincidental than directly related to moving from one step to another. - Second, whenever I keep doing something that seemed like it was something I didn't need anymore, it ends up becoming a source of greater fruit, because now that I've grown closer to God in x way, that practice changes- it isn't the same practice as before. The prior motivation is gone, and now if I continue following that guidance in obedience to what I believe to be God's will, I end up realizing a benefit that I didn't know was there previously, and thus in a sense, God is providing the motivation for that continued practice, while previously I was providing it myself, if that makes sense. - Thus, rather than just using the veil as a sort of mortification for pride, I would ask, based on my own experience, if there isn't something else to learn if you continue it as a regular practice. I say this not so much from a liturgical concern, but from a personal spiritual concern- generally what has been significantly useful to me in the past is something that I should continue, barring a pretty clear indication from our Lord. I'm also wondering, being from a rural area in the midwest with many religious vocations, if there isn't a reason beyond the vocation that religious sisters maintain the habit throughout their lives, even though they are hopefully increasing in a great deal of holiness as part of the practice.
Great great comment! Yeah you know I think that God will always find ways to challenge us and go deeper with us when we are ready for it. As I mentioned in the video, for me, I'm really following a call for me to humble my reliance or attachment to externals. John of the Cross talks about this in The Dark Night of the Soul. How there is a sin of "Spiritual Greed" where we collect devotionals or "trinkets" of faith and have an overreliance of things in our spiritual life - and how we need to strip ourselves of this to go deeper with God. St. Josemaria Escriva whom I shared I have been reading a ton on/about talks about the charism of being hidden in ways to not rely on externals in the same way as John of the Cross discusses. And I realize that I have a tendency to do that myself. So where God is pushing me now is to rely on my full submission as the expression. Removed from attachments of the objects I've been maybe in some ways falling into a sort of spiritual pride. It feels natural to me right now so I know He's got a lesson in me that I'm more than happy to share for others to see if this questions them to go deeper. Sure, as I said in the video He needed me to learn one specific lesson via veiling. And then that lesson began to transcend the original intention - and now we're here. I'll be absolutely talking more about this total submission and where it's taking me. And I really appreciate the dialog you've brought to the convo!
Nobody who is humble points out to others verbally or otherwise(By not wearing a veil in your case) that she is overcome with humility...😅 I still see pride.
Ah, I see we have another Christian who doesn't understand the basics of faith. Seems like you're taking a worldly false definition and trying to place that on a virtue as taught by the Church. So let's have a little lesson, shall we. The Catechism defines humility as the virtue by which a Christian acknowledges that God is the source of all good. Humility is a virtue that involves: 1) Recognizing God's greatness Humility is more about recognizing God's greatness than how lowly a person is. 2) Accepting one's dependence on God Humility involves accepting that one is impoverished and cannot help oneself, and therefore submitting to God's grace. 3) Rightful Submission Submitting to other authority figures, such as parents, bosses, and spiritual directors, for the sake of God. 4) Avoiding immoderate self-abjection Humility is opposed to immoderate self-abjection, *which is when someone fails to recognize God's gifts and use them according to God's will.* So now, based on this, can you please tell me where I'm not supposed to share my own story that doesn't fall in line with this.
Being in the church is different that being outside it, so communicate to our brothers and sisters that, is a must on this days. Veiling is optional, but I take it this way, I do it to praise God, but also for the other reason I just said. In my case, I only have one, a black one, to don't distract.
Being in the church should not be different than outside of the church. We are called to bring Christ in and to everything. There is a major problem with people not realizing this which bolsters even more what I mean when too many people are inconsistent in faith. One can veil inside but if the act of veiling isn't extended beyond the inside of the church in how the devotional is supposed to transform us as women, then what's the point than it merely being an idol.
Mantillas slide right 8:22 off my baby fine hair as do bobby pins. Constantly having to adjust one was so distracting. I wear hats, so I fit in everywhere. My head is covered.
I had the same experience in my faith journey. However, I have two daughters now and I would like them to veil, perhaps after their formal holy communion they can continue wearing the veil
That isn't totally correct. If you are talking about the plea of Mary in Fatima, there was no mention of covering oneself in church. And if we are going to take that into a real conversation, modesty extends beyond dress but in a complete comportment of life, thought, and speech. Many veiled women are extremely immodest in the latter. So are we really doing what the Blessed Mother asks when your submission, humility, and modesty ends once one takes off the veil? Veiling comes from 1 Cor 11:2-16. And it had nothing to do with modesty but everything to do with submission. We need to speak about this correctly. And also understand that humility, submission and modesty requires one's entire life, body, and spirit to follow even outside of the mass.
I agree with everything you saying here. But People who want to or like to veil for many different reasons.. will veil. Those that don’t or feel like they don’t need to won’t. Simple. It’s not a big deal either way. Eveyone must be fully convinced in their own minds. As you said just be consistent either way and do it for the right reasons and let it transform you. I think we all make a bigger deal out of each point of tradition these days. Some love it and prefer it and there’s nothing wrong with that. Some don’t or have their own reasons as you stated why they stopped. As long as just as you stated you have good reasons.
Veiling came from societies who used them as signs to distinguish between publicly available women (slaves and prostitutes) and "respectable" women. Those who were born in that condition were not allowed to veil and wear clothes that a respectable woman would wear. I understand veiling and I love a hat, but I don't need them to look respectable in the eyes of God. He does not distinguishes like that. Jesus never says : women should wear this or that. Like you say, it is an accessory.
but St Peter did. And his teaching has a very logical origin. But, veiling had to do with cultural ideas in St Paul´s time. That, was developed to wear veil as a symbol of chastity, or humility. Veiling is just a way to show. We are not forced to do it. Veiling or not veiling does not mean less or more love, respect or devotion to God. As for me, I cannot, believe me, I´ve tried, be in Mass without my veil. Greetings
@@earthgirl369 but, do you understand that the "veiling" in St Paul, has nothing to do with the reason Moses veiled in the Old Testament? Moses wanted to cover his face FROM the elders and the people, because his face was glowing and many felt scared and were distracted by it. Whereas, St Paul, uses the veiling of WOMEN as a means to show chastity. I suggest, you listen to Jimmy Akin, he explains this issue in depth. And it´s very interesting.
@@biankapalomalike with many things in our faith though, they develop over time. So even if that was true about the origin at the time, veiling has many layered meanings to it that have developed over time and Church Fathers even wrote about.
As I've said many times in the comments, this video has nothing to do with anyone's choices but my own. Continue to wear your veil, as that's not what this conversation is about.
I plan to continue wearing the veil because i see so much general sloppiness (from both men and women ) at the novus ordo- its very distracting and paradoxically makes ordinary parishioners even more different from the priests who are always wearing a proscribed formal dress. I like thinking im helping to keep the church formal. That said i do also have a distaste for parishioners who outwardly follow all the rules but seem to have cold or elitist attitudes
I agree the sloppiness is crazy. Our family is always "well turned out" for Mass. I veil. We all wear dress clothes. I really don't care if people think we are acting uppity or whatever - for us, dressing nicely is part of honoring God in HIS house.
Amen, put the veil on and pray to Our Blessed Mother. Ask her to teach you how to surrender everything without question to Our Lord. And further, repeat to oneself "For without Me you are nothing." The words of Christ in John 15. You'll absolutely be handed your pride back to you on a silver platter 😂. That's what Christ does to me! 😭😩🙏🏿😆🙌🏿✝️
I would strongly recommend and suggest that if you are a CATHOLIC woman going to a TLM it is a great blessing to Veil at every mass and even the NUNS encourage it as respect and Honour to our LADY with abundant blessings on those who follow this important TRADITION . If you participate in a NOVUS ORD MASS then this is sadly overlooked and disregarded and leads many souls to follow sacrilegious paths and actions the NOVUS ORDO does NOT properly address and acknowledge the Deciplins necessary to encourage young women especially to grow closer in HOLYNESS to God . AVE MARIA GRATIA PLENAR DOMINUS TECUM ❤🙏
If anyone thinks people who veil need to be perfect because they look perfect in church, the intent is totally wrong. No one is perfect. I started veiling 3 years ago and will be becoming a Consecrated Virgin. I will never stop veiling no matter how much I sin. I wont stop because I will sin and people see veils and think that makes us a saint. I'm not and I'm still Christ's Bride.
I veil for the same reason men do not cover their heads at mass. Men by Canon law are not required to uncover their heads but they never stopped but women did. I leave it up to all to determine if there were consequences or not.
But most men don't wear hats on a regular basis as a part of their wardrobe in general. Men, even in secular situations remove their hats as a part of etiquette, not just in church. This conversation isn't about telling any woman to stop veiling. It is a conversation about going deeper and letting the devotional transform oneself in a deeper interior way.
@@thatblackcatholicchick understood. Unfortunately unintentionally it’s led to the opposite I.e. veilers feeling like they need to defend themselves and non veilers feeling vindicated. This is not about us but about the best way to offer God worship. I am at Mass to worship God not to judge the morality of others. I am enough of a sinner. I don’t find veiling comfortable and I fought against it for a while after knowing God was calling me to it so it’s a penance I can accept along with knowing it pleases God. Btw thanks for taking the time to respond to so many comments. That’s not easy to do and probably a penance in itself 🙂
Sometimes I veil, sometimes I don't depending on the reason. It's good to just keep the focus on God, if you're veiling and it's causing you vanity or pride issues, maybe sit where people can't see you or take it off? lol.
Yes! The same thing has been happening to me. I no longer evil either. It's not necessary, for me. I also started going to a Movie Ordo mass out at Of necessity.
