I'm right about the Old Goku...! | DBZ 

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I feel like Toriyama wrote Goku as nuanced enough that we understand that he’s generally a pretty selfless person, but he also enjoys testing his limits. Goku fights to protect others AND to test his limits. Toriyama has basically never written Goku into a scenario in which Goku had to pick between a good fight and protecting others. I guess the closest thing would be him letting Vegeta live, which does result in a lot of Namekians dying, but Goku never has to deal with the consequences of that decision. Like Six said, Goku almost always shows concern for the well-being of his friends and innocent bystanders. He isn’t like a superhero who seeks out threats to stop and spends his spare time flying around trying to stop crime, but he also wouldn’t just let an innocent person die or get hurt if he was around to help them.

Goku did kill Freeza and Cold in Future Trunks timeline, so he was not kidding, he learned from his mistake and was not going to let Freeza get away a second time

I always thought being dead for 7 years is what changed him the most.

The panel after Goku "kills" Frieza is one of the best panels of manga ever. I'm my opinion no other single adaptation quite captures the aray of emotions Goku felt. He looks sad, disappointed, and angry all at the same time. Toriyama conveyed this with NO words in a single image. No game, anime, or other adaptation feels as hollow and gut-wrenching as that panel does. It's truly a work of art.

My take on the cell senzu was that Goku didnt want Cell to feel backed into a corner when Gohan finally let go. We saw the result of that kind of situation when cell self destructed. He wanted Cell to fell confident that he would win so that hopefully when Gohan snapped he didnt get mad and take his toys and go home so to speak. Given Goku's words to gohan about not backing cell into a corner we know this possibility was known to Goku.

I think they call it flanderization. But it doesn't help that it's essentially the fandom writing the manga/anime. Your first video and this one are on point

No amount of time in another world should make you forget how important basics are... He literally doesnt even meditate anymore, he finds it "goofy" that vegeta was just "sitting around" like come on, how can you forget how important spirit and mind is if you were the one drilling it into everyone elses head?

What makes goku a hero isn't his conviction to uphold justice and go out of his way to defend the weak, what makes him a hero is the fact that he helps the innocent against the villians if he happens to be passing by. He doesn't like it when people are treated badly, he's more of a passerby type of hero. A true hero doesn't always consider themselves to be one, it's just the results of their actions that define who they are. When it comes to the dub I would say that the og dragonball captured gokus character the best, a good natured man who enjoys the thrill of a challenge.

Bro is back again for the smoke from the "You don't understand Goku" community

i think the weird thing to do when you want your main character to be a nuanced neutral character is to give him the kinto un that can only be ridden by those that are pure of heart. you are immediately led to believe goku is a good person no matter what because of it, and a lot of it can be spun to later iterations of him

That face that goku makes after blasting Frieza is hands down my favourite pannel in all of dragon ball So much emotion from just 1 pannel Easily surpassess anything in Super

In terms of goku not being the hero, i feel like he’s got a pretty realistic position considering the situation. By the time of cell saga they were able to gather all the dragonballs in the span of a day, and since it was dende’s dragonballs they could just wish for all of the people who died to be brought back anytime there’s a fight. So while he isnt gonna put his life at risk to prevent collateral damage in a fight, he still has the morals to prefer people dont get killed as a result of his battles 😂

Super Goku gets trashed bc as fans who’ve watched him grow we saw him regress💀 it was like a slap in the face tbh

I don’t think it really matters how Toriyama ‘meant’ for Goku to be depicted. I think the version of Goku most people remember the most fondly is the version of Goku that is made up of ideas from not just Toriyama, but his editors too. Toriyama’s vision of Dragon Ball seemed to have been put on a pedestal for the most recent stuff, which is fine, but I do think that the input of his editors from back in the Z era was mostly beneficial to the series as a whole.

I'm so glad that this and your other video about this topic exist. I don't know when or how it happened, but Goku's character has become one of the most controversial parts of the series in recent years and people constantly refuse to read my arguments or go back and read the original manga and compare the original Goku to DBS Goku I mean of course they don't they're Dragon Ball fans and lack the ability to read.

I think the biggest issue that people aren't taking into consideration when they defend the senzu bean situation with Moro is that *he did not need to be healed even if you spare him here*. He was damaged up a bit, but still capable of walking, talking, etc. It's really crazy that he felt the need to heal someone who was going to spend their days in prison, like it literally doesn't make sense. Ignore what you think about Goku, or the story itself. Why even heal him when he can be taken to the prison as is? I've been reflecting on this character for a while, and I have to say that while we have the slight differences in opinion, I'm still on the same page. Goku's character has been tarnished. DBS Super Hero is what really sold it for me. You either say he's stupid or that he has dementia (granted, he did hit his head as a kid).

I dont only miss old goku, I miss Dragonball. The story was never a strong point of the series but they just overdo it. Let's bring Frieza back a 3rd time with a new form. Here have some new Androids. Ah, and Cell needs a comeback too. And through the power of science, some random dude on earth can build Androids on par with a trillion times more powerful beings than the original cell. Ah, and Gohan is not relevant enough, lets just give him a billion times powerup out of nowhere. The Moro Arc was perfection against what comes after it...

3:21 I actually like the comment about "poison". Goku doesn't necessarily overcome his saiyan instincts (which have gotten less vicious in their depiction over time, but are still pretty rough) but instead channels them into doing productive things. Same with generally more 'peaceful' Saiyans like Gohan and Trunks, who have episodes they lose control possibly BECAUSE they don't train as much as Goku; It's interesting to think that while Goku probably doesn't do martial arts to specifically control his saiyan instincts, it might be a happy byproduct. Also I think Goku as the Fool, not necessarily stupid or superheroic but just living in the moment of his own positivity, is the best depiction of him.

Another goated Goku video from Wix himself 🔥

The cognitive dissonance I experienced when watching dbz in comparison to hearing about goku from the fans was crazy. Thank you for really making me a db fan six

Just wanted to stop and appreciate how high quality the scans/manga panels in your videos are.

I think what I love most about Six is that he’s petty enough to make a whole other video to prove what was a fact and break it down to the casuals lol.

I do feel as well that Toriyama didn't capture what he wanted for Goku. I think Goku is more heroic than what Toriyama intended. This doesn't mean he is Superman, but superheroes overall aren't exactly like Superman. However, because they care about the world and others still, it doesn't take away that they are heroes. I agree with others who mentioned the reason why Super Goku is different from Z Goku is that - Super Goku was the view Toriyama really wanted for Goku. Within the Namek saga, when he approaches Freeza, an important aspect is that he doesn't know all the people of Namek or Saiyans. However, Goku is still willing to fight for them and wanted Freeza to pay because of his cruelty. He cares about people he didn't even know. This even shows how Goku believes in justice. In the same arc, while fighting Freeza, he does show to fight for the universe. He says "But I have to defeat Freeza now, while I still can... or the entire universe will be in danger" In the Boo saga, while fighting kid Boo he says "I better go all out if I want to stand a chance. The whole universe is at stake here!!" In the series, even when Goku brings up the world, he isn't just focusing on "his family" or "his friends," he wants to save everyone in the world. I feel this is a reason why many feel disconnected from Super Goku. When you compare him to Z Goku, both of them have different ideologies. Not saying that Super Goku doesn't want to save his friends and others, but it is clear that most of the time he focuses on fighting a strong person-even when things are dire. Z Goku does want to fight others who are strong, but when they are evil and set on destroying the world, his entire focus will be to save the world.

The fact Goku gave Moro a Senzu Bean so he could full heal, just to break this man’s arm with his damn pecs right after is literally another tier of disrespect.

Personally, I think Goku giving Cell the senzu was the right call. He wasn't being careless. Goku knew that he didn't stand a chance, and that Gohan did; provided he could trick Cell into not taking Gohan seriously. Cell originally had no interest in fighting Gohan, so I think he would have just killed Gohan on the spot so he could get back to the main event. The senzu made Cell overconfident and more willing to toy with Gohan long enough for him to unlock super saiyan 2. Of course, It was a calculated risk missing a key variable; being Gohan not enjoying fighting. But how was Goku supposed to know about that? Chi Chi never allowed Goku to attempt to train him, then after Goku's revived; he sees Gohan on a battlefield. When Goku told Gohan to go home where he'd be safe, Gohan just returned to the fight. After recovering from nearly being killed by Vegeta, Goku finds Gohan in another battle. To top it off, Future Trunks tells Goku about Gohan being the one to train him. The lack of context behind all of Gohan's involvement was likely a major contributor to this misunderstanding, and his desire to help prepare for the artificial humans and Cell didn't help. Once Goku learned that Gohan was in danger and only fighting because he felt pressured into doing it; he immediately tried to intervene and get Gohan back to relative safety.

Something that's not entirely uncommon among writers and what I feel like Toriyami is struggling with here with Goku is passion for the character and belief in their persona. It's as if Goku has broken the 4th wall and stolen Toriyama's heart. He may have wanted Goku to not necessarily be the stereotypical "good guy", but he can't bring himself to make Goku inherently evil either. As such, all expectations don't get met on either end. But at the end of the day, everybody loves Goku

Goku knocking Geros hat off is peak Goku.

He was spittin but don't let that distract you from the fact that this man said naruto wouldnt be able to use sage mode without kurama

Another detailed and goated video from Six

"Goku was meant to be childish!" Yeah! When he was a child! He's an adult man now and we have literally seen his progression in DBZ and now his obvious regression in Super. "Only in the English dub is Goku a superhero" Time and time again Goku would put the well-being of Earth and his friends before himself or his desires. People say Vegeta was bad for letting Cell become perfect but Super Goku DEFINITELY would have done the same thing. Super Goku is basically the cause of everything bad happening or escalating to dire situations in Super because he is a retard now.

Six drops a video imma have to watch🤷🏿‍♂️

Totally agree. Since the black arc it was clear in my head that super was irredimible and was only going to get worse and worse; and sadly I’ve been right ever since. That’s why right there i just stop caring about the future of the franchise, and i was just glad DBZ is always gonna be there and being untouchable.

This also fits with GT. Goku in GT will often try to talk his opponent out of a fight to the death, but if they don't take the offer, or clearly won't change, he will end them.

But I don’t think Toriyama failed. Goku protects the Earth because he’s from there and loves the Earth. His friends and family is there. He’s always stopped the bad guys because they were a hinderance to his goals. And when he was commissioned by someone else to stop a bad guy, he took the “job” because he knew there were strong. He never says “oh he’s a killer? It’s my duty to stop this evil doer!” He always says it sounds fun and he can push himself. That was clear throughout the series to me

keep spittin'. I've been watchin DB since 94 and readin since ~09, if mfs think Super Goku(and alot of the cast for the matter) hasn't regressed as a character and isn't a shell of himself, you don't pay attention. Goku in Super is like if you just look at his character at the MOST surface level possible! Funny enough to say but if you want a return to form for his character go watch GT

Omg, a dragonball fan with literary comprehension! Really good video!

On the Buu topic, actually I think Goku wanted him to reincarnate as a good guy because he enjoyed the challenge but also because he recognized that Fat Buu was a good character because of Mr. Satan. He still killed Kid Buu but he wanted to give Buu another chance, but AFTER they killed off his evil side.

Spit about our king Goku🎉

Six is my favorite body pillow RU-vidr

Goku from the Cell arc was the best version of Goku. He had fears, he was afraid to die, he question his own abilities and knew he was limited. A more human Goku was amazing touch with the character. Goku refusing to stop Buu will forever be a stain for me. I get his mindset, but Goku punching Gero to stop going on a mass killing spree, to Goku simply saying “nope, don’t need to stop it because it’s not my place.” That forever changed my perspective on the character. Akira did his job very well with getting to question Goku morals after Buu well at least for me.

I always thought Goku gave the Senzu to Cell so Gohan could humiliate Cell while he was at Full Power. It was just a way of showing off, like "My son is so powerful, even after a full heal you stand no chance!"

Honestly the fact we are even still talking about the Moro senzu bean incident sould just tell you how little scene it makes. And to my understanding the only reason why it happened from a meta narrative is so they could hint at Uub (and continue the cell similarities) since I think they had no idea how to naturally introduce him as they are still trying to reach the same end of Z from super.

0:22 that's a fire start. I do remember the dog mayor remembering him, but that might be filler.

I am starting to think that the way Goku is portrayed in the Manga is due to Akira Toriyama's Editor. Just like with George Lucas and the original Trilogy when he allowed other people to direct the movies, I think the Dragon Ball Editor Kept Akira Toriyama in check. The editor is the reason Goku is the way he is in the Original Manga, but in the Super Anime, the Editor is not around to keep AT and the anime writers in check. This why Goku is so different in Super

This information really does make Goku more interesting to me.

I hate how everyone in the db community defends the argument of what toriyama originally wanted goku to be. He also wanted android 19 and 20 to be the big bad of the android saga. He also wantes to end the series after frieza saga. He also wanted vegito blue to not be a thing. He also wanted jiren to not be as strong as he is.

5:30 😂lol six is based af. I agree, just because toriyama wanted to show Goku a certain way does not mean he succeeded in doing so. How many times do we see Goku doing good things for the sake of it? Like giving up his grandpas dragon ball so Upa(?)s father can come back to life after the Tao fight? Ya know?

I enjoyed that one of the first things you said was people gaslighting themselves. Very accurate.

it is quite simple , goku is just a normal guy like us who like to fight , not a super hero but if he see someone's life being threaten , he won stay indifferent , he will help cause he knows that is the right thing to do and he can , like any normal person with a sense of moral

I wish Goku was more serious in Super. Like when he fought Goku on Namek.

With regard to the Moro being given a senzu ordeal, I saw a counter-argument that states it's fine for Goku to give Moro a senzu bean, since he immediately breaks his arm on UI Goku's chest the moment he tries to attack him, which means that Goku knew that Moro stood no chance against him anymore, and was basically no longer a threat. But you bring up an even better point: why give Moro a senzu in the first place? The fight was over, he was already beaten, and his injuries basically amounted to some bruises, a broken horn, a cracked forehead jewel thingy and a missing hand. The simple answer is that the author wanted the fight to continue and for Moro to get UI, so he got the outcome he wanted by contriving Goku into acting like an idiot for no good reason. Goku giving Cell the senzu bean was an honest mistake (and there might be an argument to be made that it was actually the right course of action), born out of him misunderstanding his son's nature, but there's no such justification for what Goku did with Moro.

Wow knowing the specific manga details of how Goku was really feeling at the end of the Frieza fight (trembling w/ sad face) made me appreciate that part of the story a lot more. Knowing that bit of info also makes it more consistent for me story-wise, that Frieza was still able continue living even after being blasted by Goku. The best part of this is we still get to see Goku being true to his nature, and Frieza gets to live a little longer only to get annihilated by Super Saiyan AGAIN!

The pure of heart needed for riding the nimbus showed it being the good pure of heart not the single minded purpose type. So Toriyama messed up in the very beginning of the series.

I agree, even in Super the Goku not kissing chi chi is wrong because Daizenshuu 5 page 60 part 2 of the TV guide- LITERALLY states he kissed chi chi- not chichi kiss Goku; no it says HE KISSED chichi- It read: "悟空はしばらく別れ てしまうチチにキスを･･･。" "Goku kisses chichi, who he is leaving for a while." but Super forgot about that. Goku also went on a picnic and was driving too- he was far more mature in Z- super seemed to exaggerate it too much. So well done Six

Man, seeing those manga panels from z, i say it still very much holds up even against modern shounen mangas. Its beautiful. The action is shard and has impact. Six is spitting facts. Sometimes i wonder like, are people even reading the same manga? Lol

Thank you. I think u have a good understanding of Goku's character. I still dislike Goku giving Moro a senzu.

there was one moment in DBS in which Goku was his old DBZ self. you remember the moment when he wanted to talk with Zeno about the tournament and beerus suddenly threatened him? the entire tone of the scene shifted in an instant, the music turned serious, Goku's face expression and way of talking was his old DBZ self. it resolved in Goku tricking beerus which is also unlike super Goku too. this scene was, for just a little conversation, a lot more serious and suspenseful than anything else in super.

Man I miss Goku

It sounds like Toriyama's depiction of Goku was supposed to be more like Luffy from One Piece. Luffy fights because he loves to fight. He doesn't usually care for any possible casualties that he would be involved with UNLESS it puts those he cares about in severe danger. Those people are usually his friends who can't handle themselves, as well as people he respects and their valued property and/or citizens... and also those who promised him food. If any of these people need his help because of something tragic, he won't comfort them, and instead advances to resolve the issue with his fists. I think the major issue between Luffy and Goku's situation in regards to the way Toriyama wanted Goku to be depicted is, the power. Luffy can achieve this stuff without having to worry about him or his opponent tearing the whole island or country anew because their powers don't usually impact a huge area at a destructive level. The goals of Toriyama's depiction can be achieved way easier this way. However, Toriyama kind of wrote himself into a wall when it comes to his depiction of Goku. His characters powers are far too immense to be used around society, and so he has Goku lead the villains away from civilization to a barren wasteland, 19 and 20 being prime examples of this. Even with Goku wanting to stay dead after Cell, while I loved that so much, it doesn't support his depiction, because Goku is being deprived of his passion to fight for the sake of humanity (and this is before he knew he'd be able to satisfy his passion in the afterlife). Then the Buu saga itself opened up a lot of cans where Goku's often shown being heroic over his passion. Dragon Ball Super gives Goku the chance to show less heroicness because he often fights in worlds where he doesn't need to worry about causalities, and even then, Goku's actions line up more with Toriyama's depiction just in general, such as when he fought Beerus in the city, but it's too late now. We've gone through Dragon Ball and Z where we see Goku develop into a heroic warrior, and he's at fault for writing him in the way he didn't want to write him. To suddenly change his character completely in the sequel series to fit your depiction will result in an inconsistency that's so big, it makes all of Z feel irrelevant. There's nothing else to say but, Toriyama messed up. He failed to write Goku in the way he depicted him. To us, the fans, Z Goku is beloved to us while Super Goku is somebody entirely different. DBZ is our Goku and DBS is Toriyama's Goku.

toriyama is accurate in that goku is not a 'good' guy. he is pure of heart but goku doesn't view himself as a 'good' guy. he is not self righteous. a lot of self righteous 'good' guys end up doing bad things because the ends justify the means. look at zamasu. he viewed himself as the ultimate good guy but was really just a racist that was committing genocide against all mortals.

Your actions end up crafting and shaping you into who you become. Just like if you do bad things for a good, it can lead you to becoming a bad person if you lose sight of what you are doing it for.

A lot of people, even myself forget this part (at least i assume): Before Goku gives Moro the senzu, after being kicked into rubble, Moro begs Goku to help him. Goku then silently stares at him. That is when Goku's decision to spare him initially is made. After talking to Jaco, Goku then resigns from being a Galactic Patrol member and rips the symbol off. It is not in Goku's nature to immediately destroy someone who begs for them at his feet. From Raditz, to Freeza, and now to Moro. You can even make the argument of how Goku didn't learn his lesson for Freeza when a very similar situation happened to Raditz. Goku gives the senzu to Moro because he literally wants to fight with a good version of Moro. After Goku gives the bean, Moro immediately attacks him and breaks his hand. To which Goku calls him a coward, then powers down and asks him if he's ever trained. After Moro reiterates he will never reform, that's when Goku powers back to UI and mentions his promise to Merus to protect the galaxy. Goku is somehow simultaneously complex and simple as a character. I don't like the entire senzu situation with Moro that much if I were being honest (I think it's forced), but I cannot say it is out of character for Goku in this point of the story.

I miss how wise Goku felt during the Piccolo Jr. saga. He was serious, but not in the same way he was when he got serious in Z. He felt more like a master martial artist in that saga than he even did while training Gohan. He was able to think about consequences before things happened, and was even mentally and emotionally mature enough to understand why Chi-Chi was upset at the tournament. That's how I wish he was during Z and a better version of Super/GT (both are ass, but imagine if they were both rebooted as one new series with all the best elements carefully planned out).

he as initially willing to spare mercenary Tao too!

It's been a minute since i read the moro stuff, so forgive my monke brain if i misremember things. But a possible explanation for the senzu, not saying id agree, could be that at the time it was kiiinda like a cell situation where goku knew full well thag moro legit just... couldn't win, cause moro tried all the dirty tricks he had and Goku didnt get hit once in the entire thing before that. The main difference being this time goku knew the person in charge of taking down moro was willing to do it if things came to that because Goku himself was doing it. You could say goku thought that, since he did win fair and square, he figured moro would also have to see that and as Goku had stopped all prior attempts to eat the world during the skirmish goku figured his overwhelming power would force moro to understand his options were: die or face his time in prison. Based on what he says in the small time where he leaves UI in the middle of the fight he seems like he kinda wants to be proven wrong that some people just have to die, that even people like moro can be forced to see reason, goku was just wrong. Least, thats the best argument i can think of off the top of my head, so... prolly even not that good, hah. Personally i think it's kiiinda just seems like more super wheele spinning but part of me hopes theres something im just nor seeing.

15:40 also to add to ur point there, while goku chose a fair fight over the safety of the universe, it was also a misguided choice in that goku & vegeta both underestimated buu and later on admits they should have fused. So if he knew how strong Kid buu really was, he might have opted to fuse with vegeta or fight 2v1

It's a basic fact of fiction that the author's idea almost never makes it to the page on an ideal for. The character he wanted to write is harder to make interesting. In reality, if he wanted Goku to be a person who just wanted a stronger challenge all the time he should have made him fight both villans and heros because that how that works. Like he goes to Namak Frieza's nemesis Alomstfreza is their and asks Goku to team up and Goku insist instead on fighting him even if I makes stopping Freza impossible. The reason Goku became a hero is that not trying to help people and not having a code would make him a villan at least by allowing evil to happen and that not what he intended either.

The fact that you have to explain this again is q bit ridiculous to me because i think you were pretty clear in the first video. But i guess some people only hear what they want to hear. Keep up the good work these video essays are really good.

Idk if this is just me but I feel like the Super manga is more closer in feel to DBZ than the Super anime ever was especially with how they handle characters

Being dead for 7 years is not a dead, its sleeping bruh

I miss old Goku too, I literally was 2 when my sister would put Z on to put me to sleep so Goku is a special character to me and it actually physically hurts seeing what they are doing to him. I never saw the manga only but 2 volumes but I plan on getting it to relive the joy of his story. I’m never getting super tho, I’d rather throw it into the sun then buy it. 😂

Is this a reupload?

I completely disagree because Goku has always been about mercy and giving people second chances. A better comparison is vegeta. He was very evil but Goku let him live. He gave Moro the senzu bean NOT for no reason at all. It was the only way Goku could be sure of Moros intentions. If he was actually going to be good or just lying about it because he was weak. Goku knew he could beat him again if he had to. This is not the problem with Goku. The real change is how dumb and immature he is now. This is the only mature thing he's done in super. It really started in dragon ball when Eighter told Goku not to kill white. He learned mercy then. So for him not to do it anymore would be regressing the character. Goku doesn't kill people unless he absolutely feels he has too. Even Frieza he held back that final shot.

It goes back to Dragon Ball, too. I mean when that little kid’s dad dies and he goes out of his way to avenge and revive him. And then throughout the series his power ups and fights stem from him avenging others.

Can you do a Buu saga power level explanation please ?

I feel this. Essentially DB Super has all the necessary key elements like forgiving the opponent, transformations and.. wholesome scenes. But everything feels just so empty. Like the path to a transformation is bs - Looking at DB Super Super Hero. Vegeta being gangsta but wearing a pink tutu (that almost killed Super for me in an instant) And then Goku... holy hell I think they just got rid of serious Goku so Ultra Instinct Goku has a right to exist I had high hopes in the last movie. But sadly Cell was a braindead Godzilla

Man I miss the old Goku. Also, I appreciate the content you've been putting out on Goku. We need more critical thinkers like you in the community. Dragon ball has played a big role in my child hood, and I absolutely dislike what they've done to Goku's character. Honestly, it is a shame to have one of the most influential character in fiction and then ruin his character completely. Vegeta too.

Another thing is the Majin Buu saga, Vegeta becoming a Majin and vaporized an enormous amount of people to egg Goku on to fight him. Goku, angry at Vegeta, immediately powers up to Super Saiyan ready to accept the challenge. What was crazy about Goku here is the fact he was ready to kill the Supreme Kai for interfering.

I feel like the most likely reason that Goku's character has been regressed is so that the new generation has analogous stories. Like, literally the reason he gives Moro a senzu is probably pure member berries. I'm assuming it's a marketing thing, or just doing a safe storyline Beat. Either that, or maybe Toriyama legitimately forgot he already wrote that character development. Edit: Now that Daima is announced, I realize that Toriyama was not the only writer on Super, don't know the details but it seems like he has more creative freedom with Daima so we'll see

3:08 dude, I just realized that's ALL he does on Super. Like literally no villain in DBS ACTUALLY damages Goku's friends (to the extent they did before), they are a multiversal threat RATHER than personal threat to Goku's relatives. They do threaten them but none actually get close to a deep emotional scar

That is so cool seeing the manga panel again because when I saw the anime Goku and frieza's final scenes I automatically noticed that there was a sadness rather than or oddly mixed in with an anger despite Goku's facial expression in the anime. Not to mention he says something along the lines of "it's a shame your life had to end this way" so maybe i projected my own emotional baggage on there which made me interpret the scene as sad and angry. Dbz was peak. Idk wtf happened. My guess is dragon ball became corporate as the years went by and when something goes corporate for long enough the story dies to make room for the money. And i still gladly buy anything that looks good even if it's fan service (in games) There seems to be a sweet spot where the money is flowing but the story is still extremely important and that ended...idk. probably between z and super. It should be noted im an android/cell saga guy but obviously the buu saga was still awesome like 85% of the time it's just android and cell was like the apex to me Anyway good vid. I couldnt put my thoughts together this well (not yet anyway)

The point Torayama made is better understood if we contrast Goku with Saiyaman/Gohan Saiyaman is a hero. He sees crime and injustice, he goes out of his way to stop it. He takes down bad guys. He is trying to make the world a better place. Goku is not a hero. He is a good man, he does not create evil and is generally good and selfless, but Goku, despite being pretty much capable of just stopping every robbery, mugging and murder in the city, does not do that. He lives a cozy, selfish life. He trains and gets stronger because he likes to. He fights bad guys when they threaten him and his loved ones. He doesn't want innocent people to get hurt, but he won't go out of his way to make the world a better place. Even Frieza, the Sayians, the Red Army, Cell, Boo, all of these threats he fought were NOT because he was a hero of justice, but because they threaten him and his way of life.

Well. I'm 100% sure it is a character regression because it HAS to be there. At the end of Z there was zero ways to have Goku grow. Then making him the main character for a demographic that did not grow up with him. I believe the writers at Toei and even Toriyama felt he HAD to be that way. Even the movie where you had Goku not knowing why Vegeta is meditating even though he was taught the importance of meditation as kid when training with Kami.

I havent finished the video yet but I agree so much of how you he stopped his desire to hold back after freeza to further to solidify your point goku was straight about to kill supreme kai because he saw him as a threat. Also, about goku giving cell the sensu bean, goku knew about gohan hidden potential. He knew that gohan could kill cell so giving cell a sensu was not a problem to him. Even gohan thought goku was holding back his strength even though he was going all out

Also when Goku took down the entire red ribbon army to revive Upa’s father. Also why is Goro’s theme in the background?🥴

No offense,but would love some background music and or audio cues to really make your videos pop.

Six What is your opinion on Goku Black(the character)

Goku gave moro a sensu bean because he knew that even if moro heals he would still be able to beat him this is shown as goku tanks moro's punch like it was nothing of course eventually moro fused with the earth but everyone makes mistakes the way you are saying it your making it like DBS Goku is a terrible and completely different character with no redeeming qualities

I was on the Idea that Goku was making the exception with moro to honor the angel wishes. But he wqs not afraid to kill him if he didn't learn.

I really really hate how they characterized him in Super. Cell saga goku really goated

Early gang fr

Ah the automated subs "After sale speech, the whole world fell in a state of terror"

you basically just called author statements HEADCANON 🥶

Z Goku is the odd one out imo DB and super Goku are believably the same person.

The best way to describe Goku now is that they made the DBZ Abridged Goku cannon.

WE STARTING A RIOT WITH THIS ONE🔥 we Gon make these niggas understand.

6:50 Bulma gave birth to Trunks, so Future Bulma did defeat Frieza, by proxy. 😂

“At least not in my opinion” that’s what people need to understand. I think six is just blatantly wrong here. I don’t get payed to prove why, I just disagree with his view on the topic. At least in the sense of early Goku. Current Super Goku is clearly a shell of his former self and six explained it perfectly

Hi cool vid I agree with most of your points about super Goku, But I do think the Moro stuff does kind of make sense. My reason for thinking this is that Goku never liked killing people even if they where pure evil, so him trusting his instincts like what he has been learning through all of super makes sense to me he is giving Moro every opportunity to change his way's even gave him a sensu bean to show that no matter what you do you can not win. And when Moro still rejects him Goku then decides has to kill him. I think him stopping and talking to Moro is some-what true to his character or at least an evolution of his character about how he trusts his instincts and because of that he is usually right, Like with piccolo to extent even though at the time he did to keep kami alive I don't believe that to be the main reason he did it, his true reason was to fight him again in the future and it turned out alright. And even more so with Vegeta, at the time he had no reason to spare him and he was the biggest threat they had met and it turned out alright in the end. SO Goku trusting his instincts have been mostly consistent with his character and I think if they continue this path Super Goku will be in a better place and closer to a Z or more developed Z Goku