I met Gramps! - A Conversation with  

I got it in your last video. It’s great! Even with the subjects I’m familiar with it showed them in a new light that taught me how to better understand them.

Forrest, the reason this guy isn't understanding you is because he doesn't have listening skills. You have to actually make him repeat you. Like a child. I know how these creationists are, they are either lazy, slow, or both.

he said he would make a video to " highlight the essence of this video " do you think he will honestly represent you're points ??

Another issue with this guy is, he is constantly looking for examples of what he imagines are the best reasons to not accept Evolution is true. So you answer his silly baseless questions that demonstrate he has spent no time learning and then he is still lost. Instead of talking about his imagined reasons to not believe Evolution happened, it would be better to show the best evidence for Evolution itself. The best most incontrovertible evidence includes the fusing of Chromosome 2, retrovirus, genetics and olfactory similarities, ect.

Now play tennis with him

What would change your mind? Forrest: New evidence Gramps: Nothing

I have studied it followed by I have never heard of epigenetics

@@cion486 Yes! The number of times Forrest said something and Gramps just looked blank clearly not knowing what was being said. Did his "study" at the Discovery Center consist of just being told "Evolution is wrong", it sure seems that way.

Thank you Morgan Freeman 😂

@a2225 Epigenetics is an amazing field. The idea that you could turn on and off genes helped us use designed treatments for everyone. It was my primary field for quite a few years (it's not as new as people seem to think). I got into it when we were studying HIV blockers. It's way too much to go into in a youtube comment but start here: www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8156729/ if you are interested and then move on to more general searches regarding epigenetics. At some point you'll come across how that was used to enable a viral injection method to cure a form of cancer. That's where my work was.

Yeah, flat earthers use exactly the same kind of evidence creationists do. And most of them believe it because it is in the Bible, just like creationists do. They just ignore different sets of evidence.

Flat earthers just drew a different bullseye, they were still playing the same blind game

​@@sthed6832Honest question, are most flat earthers creationist? I mean, I've never given it a lot of thought. I assumed the flat earthers were like their own little group of crazy.

@@Gildedmuse They appear to be. Most don't talk about religion, but the ones who do tend to be Bible literalists. Of course most creationists are not flat earthers. I know a flat earther, and she is a literalist - and a believer in every CT out there.

@@sthed6832 Ahh. Maybe it's because I've only ever met two flat earthers irl (both on public transportation, both without any prompting from me. In one case I was literally just trying to distract his kids from screaming and fighting because I happened to have some paper on me and use to be a nanny so asked if they liked to draw. Getting YOUR kids to behave is not permission to tell me about how the government is lying about the globe) but neither gave off strong Christian vibes. Although, I will say that when I think about it like that, the only other people who have felt the need to come up to me and randomly ask something like, "have you accepted Jesus Christ as your Savior?" have been Christian. However, they both gave me the impression they would tell me that the Pope was a lizard and Christianity is just another way to control the sheeple. They were.... a lot. Sweet kids, though, once you paid them some attention. The mom, who was trying to murder the third, seemed sweet and incredibly thankful as well. I remember I had some keychains of Black Panther, Iron Man and Spider-Gwen (the little pop ones) and let them play with them some, including the baby, because the mom didn't want the youngest one or baby using markers and the young boy quickly got bored of the pencil. So I let them play superheroes. At the end the mom had them all say thank you and that's when I realized I had just lost those keychains, the mom did not understand that was not a gift and I didn't have it in me to stress this lady out more by taking them away from the kids.... still, they seemed sweet enough and normal. It was just the dad who was weird.

He also said he studied evolution alongside his characters for his first book "reading, visiting the Discovery Institute and so on".

What, you weren't captivated by his story about God telling him to switch careers? And then giving him 3 specific topics, like God is a stressed out teacher who has to rush her students through the rest of the curriculum before they begin standardized testing. You know he's lying because God speaks to him exactly like all the stilted dialogue in his terrible movies.

Parker is an example of someone who learned just enough about evolution to not understand it, therefore god is an easier explanation to understand.

Yeah, Gramps admitted in the first 2 minutes that he is a bald-liar. His "movie" is clear evidence that all the studying he did on Evolution was listening to Ray Comfort RU-vid clips. I'd bet my life that Gramps never read a book on Evolution that was not written by an apologist.

I've rarely seen someone so graciously moving along with this level of goalpost shifting. Great job Forrest!

Really is a terrible way to start. “I had no idea what it was. All I knew is that I didn’t like it.” I don’t know anything about Muslin stuff. All I know is that it is a religion, and I don’t really like religion. I’ve heard bad things about it, but without actually being educated on it I can’t possibly hate it.

"We will not give in to the thinkers!"

Thinking hurts my head

I managed 14 minutes, when he came along with his 6 ft football player girls "I didn't see it so it didn't exist" analogy I just knew I couldn't get through this for 2.5 hours, lol

​@@Taraeth That is EXACTLY where I am right now. I'm pausing to take a break to read comments because I'm not sure if I can sit through it. Forrest is a much more patient person than I am.

Willing to support Forrest's algorithm. Because this is gonna be hard to watch. Difficult experiences are a must in life. Lol

Yep, it doesn't matter what you say, nothing gets taken onboard. "How did sight evolve?" Right after Forrest spent 5 minutes explaining how eyes evolved.

Can anyone else see Donald's eyes just glaz over? I think it took five minutes

"I don't know much other than I disagree so WRONG"

I think this sums up Gramps. His mind was closed a long time ago.

I held a similar view up until late high school because in middle school, my BIOLOGY teacher reaffirmed by bias by telling me and the rest of my class that 6 day creation was just as well supported as Evolution so take this lesson on it with a grain of salt. I think my teacher may have taken the "same evidence, different interpretation" approach that AIG expresses.

​@@ziploc2000Assuming it were ever open ...

I wish Forrest pressed him on that, how can you dismiss something you don't understand. Ok a Simpsons quote that's similar: "Kirk, crackers are a family food, happy families. Maybe single people eat crackers, we don't know. Frankly, we don't want to know." Same energy.

good analogy.

What are you talking about? There are no wallets in the Nicene Creed!

Yeah pretty much

lmao!!! This is a skit from SpongeBob SquarePants starring Patrick Star ⭐️ 🤣 beautifully relevant to this exact context lmao. Well done!

i like your fursona

*fetus delutus!* 🪄✨

He defeats it, once and for all

It's on Wattpad.

It's a book about Harry using his other "wand". =)

@@BIayne youtube asked if I wanted to translate this to English and apparently it translates to "The fetus washed away!".

I quite agree. He seems to be genuinely reduced to just sitting in disbelief that his treasured stock responses do have very clear, cogent, scientific answers.

@@John.0z The penalty of living in an intellectual bubble.

No. It's not that. He will do a "flerf reset". If you spoke to him in a day's time after this interview, he'd be asking exactly the same questions and saying they have no answer, just as if he had total amnesia.

He probably has encountered multiple people who have tried to explain these things to him, if what he is saying that he wanted to know is true. I have seen a lot of science deniers had their errors explained to them multiple times and those science denier just dismiss it.

He said right from the beginning that you can believe in evolution or you can believe in God, but you can't believe in both. He said we would not believe in evolution no matter what because he can't believe in both. He is staying true to his character, this was never about trying to convince Gramps how evolution is true, it was his attempt to prove evolution is false and when he couldn't do that he just spun his wheels in the mud.

It's the epitome of being willfully ignorant

@@pogers625 he listened but due to having a pre conceived world view did not take in any information.

@@pogers625 I didn't say we aren't fallible or perfect. I'm saying he asks a question "listens" to the answer yet does not even process it's validity. I agree we have all pre concieved world views but part of being an honest interlocutor is acknowledging points and being a reasoned person is willing to change perspective if presented with logic and reason. People can be respected but opinions can (and should) be ridiculed of its deserved.

​@quintonsm2616 agree wholeheartedly. Opinions, concepts, ideas, and beliefs are under no obligation to be respected. It's not my fault if you were a product of your environment, if you have a shitty take, you have a shitty take, and I will call that out.

​@@quintonsm2616 because it's done in a format, where it's incredibly hard to admit, that you are wrong. It's hard for people in general, harder for long held entrenched beliefs AND doubly so in a public space. Here's there to argue, not to be convinced. Both of them should've known that at least unconsciously. Saying "You know what, you are right, this makes sense!" would be an incredible feat of mental firepower, in front of all that crowd (both us and his own viewers). Screaming to the world, that all those books you've written, the movie too - were for naught. That you were indeed mistaken. It's difficult. For everyone.

_waves_ Hello!

😂👍... There were times I'd thought my internet hung. 😶

@@jemborg Donald's silent responses were deafening. Would be interesting to see his edited version of this event without looking like he's lost and drifting in a sea of knowledge.

The one zinger he tries to get in is “How can lungs, Blood, and brain evolve when they’re codependent on each other?” Which Forrest then answers how we can learn these things through “mosaic evolution” by observing similar systems His response is just to bring up the same argument with different organ systems, so Forrest just repeats the same answer

He TRIED. He tried to make some of those dad jokes that probably go over very well with a sympathetic Christian audience and then Forrest just said no and gave him a real answer.

literally just god of the gaps

Incredulity for the things that he's against.

The argument from personal incredulity. My mind pinged to that phrase many times during this video.

he's just like his character from the movie! 😅

God of the gaps is a hell of a drug.

Yeah, just about every gotcha Don had is straight from your normal creationist bs. He had nothing else.

I thought Gramps misspoke when he said it's important to define our platitudes, but I think he is actually just entirely platitude-driven. He doesn't know any other style of communication exists.

💯

"Or what about my terrible analogy? " - chess grandmaster gramps

Here is how it works, I am Forrest, I am a biologist, I say something is true, now you better believe it or you are crazy. Because I am a biologist and I get to tell the world what is true and not true. Dont you know I am a biologist

RIGHT!!!!!!! lets just be honest this person should keep believing in his god, I'm not sure he wouldn't become truly evil if his overlord isn't watching.

@@thedaysadventure1272 Disagree. Those are very different axes right there. He didn't even say that he derives his morality from God (though he probably does, I'll grant that) but even then: most people who say that are lying. To themselves. They actually already HAVE a moral compass, they just don't think about it that way because they think the bible matches it perfectly and is the basis for it. So what happens when you confront them with the HEINOUS bible verses about, let's say, all the genocides that God commanded? Something that contradicts their own intuitive sense of morality? One of two things. They'll either find a way to rationalize those verses away, to explain why they don't ACTUALLY say that those terrible things are good, or why we should ignore those verses, or why context matters... and they usually fail, because they've never thought about morality enough to make coherent arguments there. But they do TRY to make them, which is the important part. This is them putting their own moral compass over god's pronouncements, and just trying to make that work without actively denying the latter. Or they end up accepting that that's what God says, but not easily. They have to grapple with it, and end up saying something like "god works in mysterious ways" or "it's not my place to judge" or stuff like that. Again, failures of moral arguments that themselves imply heinous positions, but not really; these people just haven't thought about it. I don't think they're happy about their god saying that either, but he did, apparently, so what can you do. Of course technically there's also the people who really would just accept a moral pronouncement from the bible as it is, who would just go "yea I guess that means genocide is a-ok actually". But that is the rarity, and not the natural conclusion as you imply. This man, Donald James Parker, does not seem like the kind of person who would start murdering people left and right if he knew that he was not gonna be punished for it in the afterlife. He seems like a kind old man with a good heart, who just believes incorrect things in a misguided way. I could be wrong, but I have no reason to believe I am.

It was bad faith for him to say he was willing to change when he had already came to a conclusion. Me personally would call that a lie.

@@ilonachanYeah, I think that’s true. It’s why I think talking about ethical systems is mostly pointless. We’re all just justifying our own emotional intuitions, at least I am.

It’s amazing that accepting reality is worse to him than the comfort of believing in the imaginary.

this is kinda what I felt. I honestly feel bad for him. I dont think he can cope properly so hes filling up his life with writing and producing films and books. poor guy.

The irony is, he is likely in the scam already. Most churches expect a 10% tithing, and he seems like the kind of guy that is giving at least 10% of his income to the church already.

My first thought when watching this was “Forrest must be one hell of a teacher. He is so patient and truly listens to the “student” to learn where he is at, so he can meet him at that level and build up from there. He is never condescending or arrogant. He just explains, and then listens to see if his explanation was understood. Then if it wasn’t, he tries a new approach. An excellent example of how to teach to each person’s strengths.

​@@MrGundawindyI thought that was only Catholicism?

@@Gildedmuse so many religions have a similar financial situation. That's how they sustain themselves.

@@MrGundawindy Fair enough. You can tell who was raised Catholic.

This is exactly what I try to teach my kids and now my grandkids.

Yep! It's the whole point of the scientific process! I want to know which of my assumptions are false and, by extension, find what's true!

Yes! As a scientist, I love that the whole process involves people trying to prove me wrong, please, tear my work to pieces, or try and fail. Either way it's exhilarating! Either I teach you something or you teach me.

@@aennaenn7468 Love that mindset!

eh, not entirely fair. You can definitely know the fundamentals of evolution without knowing what epigenetics is. I only learned what epigenetics was in my second year of university and I had a decent understanding of evolution before that

​@@BuIIetBiII theres a difference between "a decent understanding" and publishing content to thousands of people about how evolution is fake

did you feel you had a deep enough understanding to write a book about it?@@BuIIetBiII

⁠@@BuIIetBiIIand did you see fit to write a book on the subject prior to your second year of university? That’s the point. He felt arrogant enough to write an entire book about a subject he’d never learned anything about

​@BuIIetBiII yeah but you don't write books on something you don't have a great understanding of unless you have an agenda.

What struck me most about that statement is that Donald never actually explained where his dissatisfaction came from. Forrest tried to ask questions to see where the disconnect was, but it didn’t matter. All the evidence in the world won’t convince someone who has already made up their mind.

Windows xp. DUOH DO DUN DOH.

Ya this is incredibly frustrating and he even claims to Forrest he can't be convinced of God but I've heard Forrest say he could be. He just wouldn't worship it...

If your consciousness were the source of your confidence or nonconfidence towards things, then that would mean you the consciousness determines your state of confidence…. If you don't have an open mind then your brain will not intake, understand and express confidence towards whatever it is you understand! GTFOH Hey Brain! Yes? You better have confidence towards or against ________ lmao 😅 Only if that were the case in life?

Yup, dude's not actually put any actual research into the topic which he pretends to be highly knowledgeable about and able to debunk, when his education level for this is Kent Hovind level.

And that was in a 30-second overview of evolution. Terms like "epigenetics", it's not like these were obscure and technical. Anyone who has read a popsci book on evolution should have encountered them.

Frightening

-someone that has never written for the evolution scientific scenario, for a reason

That's what bothers me the most about "Gramps". So many times he had to do that.

Definitely. He says “you’re never going to change my mind”, so I don’t think he even wanted to listen as a defense mechanism.

@@howdoyouknow1218 yeah that part was insane to hear someone say out loud. He admitted that he is closed minded and wants/hopes to not change his mind. That’s in direct opposition to caring about if what you believe is true.

I think he was internalizing most things. I just think that he got really scared. And at the end of the day, if he is happier believing I'd leave that be. I know I'd want to believe if I could. I just hope he is convinced to stay out of the scientific discourse from now untill hopefully he has time to check his facts a little more.

Absolutely! All Gramps was hearing was, "Natural selection is _blah blah blah blah blah blah_ *DNA* _blah blah blah blah blah_ ." So what does he do? He asks a completely irrelevant question about DNA because while he didn't understand anything Forrest said, he *did* hear him say the word "DNA".

My thoughts exactly!!!

The long awated sequel

Harry Potter being part of the occult, I’m dying

​@@maj1061 I hope that was supposed to be dying, intead of drying 😂. My mental image when I read it was pretty hilarious though.

one of the best christian worship bands....

Fanfic tbh 🤣🤣

He was completely lost when Forrest mentioned epigenetics…WTF?!? Has this guy ever read ANYTHING about evolution?? Why is he making movies about this?!

@@DeltaV11 He's cut from the same cloth as Ken Ham, Matt "I'm holding spit in my mouth to see if I dribble" Powell, Kent Hovind _et al_ in that they next to nothing about evolution. That is intentional ignorance because they are scared of being wrong. Regardless of the fact that atheism is a world view; evolution - a scientific one.

This ❤

And extreme cog dis radiating out

It's really sad to see someone struggle in their understanding, but still cling to what they know, even with someone as patient and competent as Forrest to walk him through stuff you normally gain access to only from a college lecture.

​@@user-qt1cu3ec5w no place would be good for eternity. Forever is a long time.

@@user-qt1cu3ec5w I mean to be fair, God is in heaven, and he's proven himself to be an absolute dick, what with genociding the entire human race apart from Noah and his wife, genociding everyone in Sodom and Gomorrah, genociding the Egyptians, etc. And before you say, "Oh, but they were all evil!", remember that God is supposedly omnipotent. That means that he has the power to make the wickedest people feel remorse for their actions and genuinely reform to be good. He's also supposedly omniscient, which means that he can effortlessly figure out a way to reform evildoers without overriding their free will. And yet, the supposedly omnibenevolent God took the easy way out every time and just killed 'em all. All in all, God sounds pretty slothful and wrathful to me. I wouldn't want to be on the same plane of existence as that guy.

Completely agree. Each time (nearly) he pulled out yet another boring piece of anti science anti evolution religious apologetics. So so sad.

He literally said he came in the mindset that he couldn't change his mind, and even if he preseented evidence he wouldn't be convinced.

Unfortunately he knew Forrest likes to talk so Gramps just kept him rambling on topics. While Forrest spoke at times for up to two minutes, Gramps sat there pretending to listen and deciding what question would send him onto another topic that he would ignore.

Forrest broke it down so compassionately and tried to hold his hand through the entire thought process. Wish donald would have just let go of his delusions, this could have been a powerful, pivotal moment in his life.

@@guaranagaucho3071 I wish Forrest could have broken down his long explanations into shorter back and forth interactions with Gramps so it would have been obvious that Gramps was not understanding anything he was telling him. It seemed to me that Forrest thought he was in front of a classroom instead of talking to a single person.

Honestly it was art

It was 25 seconds actually, but who's counting? Honestly that was crazy. I think Gramps was letting his ego get the better of him and refusing to let Forrest control the flow of the conversation. But I'm pretty sure Gramps only spoke for like 10 minutes out of this whole 2.5 hour video, and he lost any semblance of control about 5 minutes in.

It was just made worse when he broke the silence by saying some version of "Nuh-uh" every time.

@@tylarjackson7928Gramps pretty much sums it all up near the end by admitting that there's no way Forrest (or anyone else) could change his mind, and that he actively DOES NOT WANT to change his mind. I'd feel sorry for him if it wasn't for his obvious ego.

@@goldenknight578 For sure. Some might chalk this up to "standing firm in his faith", but it's just a typical "I'm never wrong" ego trip

One day the knowledge shall be brought to you that, in fact, the truth is not always the best outcome.

I don't know about that myself, but it's not like I have a choice in the matter, I can't just stop caring about what is true and isn't.

I always tell people, I'll always prefer the bitter truth over a sweet lie.

Honestly, when he brought that up I thought for sure he was going to say the world is flat...

He's amazed that flat earthers believe in a flat earth. Right after, he goes to say that he feels the same about evolutionists. Near the end, Forrest should've also listed Round Earth as something Donald accepts without a super-critical lens. Maybe that would've connected better.

Flat earthers use exactly the same extreme confirmation bias as creationists do. They ignore, misrepresent or call fake on any evidence that opposes their position and replace it with magic.

I was hoping Forrest would have traveled down that route to show how we know what the shape of the Earth is, and how that process works to show the mechanisms of evolution.

As a firm believer in the past I would only reject those fields of science which were in conflict with my beliefs, subconsciously believing they would change in the future to show that my beliefs were true…. Because I was convinced that my beliefs were true…. Because I had personal experiences which were explained in a way that reinforced my beliefs. That’s how it works, I believe 😅

Problem is they think the two are diametrically opposed in every facet. Science and those who engage in scientific endeavors entirely involve observation and tangible testing while religion and faith have the massive crutch of, well, faith. If they think there’s even one thing off about something scientific, they can dismantle the whole thing in their minds because that airtight theory isn’t so airtight anymore to them. Religion on the other hand if there’s holes in those beliefs they can fall back on “we just need to have faith” and not questioning God who is out of our control and comprehension and is given leeway to do/have things in a way that doesn’t make sense to us And they don’t get science is an iterative process. As we learn more we improve and build on those ideas. It’s not the gotcha they think it is if something is wrong. They can go back to it and see where they need to adjust things

(That’s called projection)

Projection is the primary superpower of the religious zealot, followed very closely by unjustified confidence in their own position.

Because God never lies. Some ancient people said so. Case closed.

But, but his god speaks to him in an inaudible voice in his head, ergo his god has to exist. LMAO Funny that voice probably tells him what he wants to hear, right?

Forrest, I dont really know, but I will tell you I know because I went to college, and I am a biologist.

​@@gsp3428huh?

@@gsp3428 gsp3428: I don't know shit about anything, but I am a Troll, so I keep Trolling, since that's what a Troll does, hurr durr durr... Git outta here, man!

I cackled

​@@gsp3428When did he say that instead of simply giving a disclaimer that science is always changing and advancing?

He just stares like tucker carlson with this frozen look

I'm not even sure if it is even "... want to listen." I don't think Gramps is capable of listening, he seems too committed/obligated to his beliefs.

Isn't that every fundie ever?

If when we die us so called good people go to heaven where we're we before we were born we have no idea so there for the soul must have been added when we were conceived but we know we are just matter

@@ernesthastie-gg7kn we we're where we we're we we

A perfect illustration of how dogma not only makes people look stupid but how they have to be dishonest to others and to themselves in order to keep their beliefs

His thinking was perfectly demonstrated when forrest asked him to explain literally one thing that he would apply his standards to, and he had no answer.

No I take that back, he said "nothing"

I agree

And totally sincere about it to boot!! He’s always gracious, even in intensely frustrating situations. Forrest, you’re a classy guy 🫡

That and his seemingly infinite patience makes him my favorite atheist and science educator.

I think it’s really important for fixing divides and reducing confrontations. Find middle ground with people, find where you agree and disagree and find where and how each person has veered off. Each person may still think the other is wrong, but communication is important and we can be more empathetic to someone we disagree with if we understand how they got there. We can also potentially fix the causes of issues if we can identify them and we can’t always identify them from the outside.

I enjoy the Forrest Style and the Matt style.

oh my god he's just my dad minus the charisma.

There were several shockers of the social history of the Holocaust. One was that nice, apparently well-adjusted people could commit atrocities with the proper belief foundations and only minor character blemishes.

@@pash_4904 oh my gosh do we have the same dad? 🤣

@@Thunderclap117 the examples gramps gives and the framing he provides is like word for word the shit my father said to me during our discussions, it’s WILD. My father is a pastor, so he has a better time navigating conversations because of his oration skills.

I think this is spot on

We can all appreciate Forrest's willingness to teach, but this gramps dude was clearly not interested in learning anything new. He is nothing more than the super sweet and overly nice version of Kent Hovind.

@@CaptFoster5 I 100% agree

I yelled "he just told you" so loud I scared the shit out of cat lmao😂😂

This! I came here to say the same thing! He clearly checked out during Forest's explanation.

It's like Zoolander. Meets a guy who explains the bad guys' entire plan about using male models for devious purposes, and Zoolander just replies, "Yeah, but why male models?"

I don’t think he was meant to be offering anything. However, I sincerely hope I have the patience he has teaching evolution with teaching mathematics. I like to think I’m a pretty patient dude, but I feel becoming a teacher will be a major test to that.

I was losing my patience as an audience member, it was like watching someone talk to a brick wall. It was amazing to watch this religious man exhibit the inner workings of his own suffering from years of brainwashing in real time. It wouldn’t matter how well evolution was explained to him because his mind has been molded to specifically reject anything that comes close to contradicting creationist ideology. It doesn’t even have to contradict it, it just has to be any other explanation for life that isn’t god.

He offered resting confused face.

I said the same type of comment I get No likes 😂

The guy was apparently asked by God himself to speak out against evolution. However he has not bothered at all to learn what evolution is. If a God would have asked me that question, I would sure as hell make sure I knew what I was talking about.

He's a prime example of an amazing teacher

​@@TomCantDanceRetired teacher here to agree with you.

Yep. That's a big part of what I respect about Forrest. He has the heart of a teacher.

Absolutely second this!

He’s not going to think about it. It’s literally impossible to reason with people like this.

Except he won't think about it. He'll probably go write another crap script and base an evil atheist on Forrest.

Forrest is the goat

He won't think about any of it. I'm sure he'll find it easier to stick with his nonsense and ignorance

2.5 INCREDIBLY ENTERTAINING h of an old man suffering from cognitive dissonance!

Setting the bar pretty low there. Wish this renowned filmmaker could have gotten his camera to not cut off his head.

@@martin2289true, i think we’ve all gotten used to awful and rude people on the internet so it’s nice to see someone less bad lol

@@martin2289 let's be fair the bar can be lower. He's nice enough to have good faith in.

​@@justinlindfors8512"you cannot change my mind." There was no good faith here. Not being a complete dick is not the same as acting in good faith

@@betadecay6503 Can't remeber him saying that verbatim but I do remember him saying "you can't convince me", which is not the same as "I don't understand". Sure he claims he cannot be convinced but unless he's actually confused and just nodding his head which i hope not cuz Valkai gave him plenty of opportunities to bring up any misunderstandings or questions, then there's no problem here. The only problem here besides the comment section not giving the benefit of the doubt, is Gramps treating this like a philosophical discussion rather than a scientific one as if religious people have no understanding of what science in general. For example it doesn't matter what we gain from evolution that's not the point of science, it's not the same as gaining meaning or purpose from religion or a passion etc.

Some ppl rrally thibk Jesus is always the answer, no matter what the question might be.

Which is ironic because it ends up being a testimony for Forrest.

yeah, he just...doesn't get it

@@blondequijote When you need an image of someone to appear on your morning toast, or in the backside of a dog, Jesus usually is often the answer...

Yeah, I agree with the look on his face assessment, COVERAGE shit eating grin on that guy...

It's weird because as a teacher you get excited at the prospect of possibly really making even the tiniest break through, but realistically you know that their believes are based in dogma and you can't penetrate that shield.

Gramps has conflated evolution with the existence of God. He made it an either-or and mutually exclusive situation in such a way that accepting evolution will imply the non-existing (or non-believing) of God.

Unfortunately, it's also a great example of why doing so with an Apologist is an immense waste of time.

Perhaps it would be more accurate to say someone who wants to know absolutely nothing about it.

​@@thuzUNed not a waste of time for us viewers

@@bactrosaurus you are right. I enjoyed and learned some new things

Hypocrisy would be a more apt word

It’s even more funny when you realize they say that as a sarcastic comeback bc they hear it all the time without realizing how it just doesn’t apply the same whatsoever

Did hypocrisy start as an attribute of religions or did it naturally evolve in social species?

@@repelsteeltje90 Latter definitely. Religions started off as a way to bring people together, to form societies, so the social nature and numerous aspects of it already existed.

@@repelsteeltje90 I’m sure it came about on its own

At the end of the day Gramps is caught up almost solely on the talking point of "where did the universe come from", but argues and writes about evolution for no reason except either it sells good or he's gotten too much of an image related to it. He'll push the conversation into the origin of the universe if you let him, but still say it's an evolution conversation because he doesn't know the difference between genetics snd the big bang

Forrest was casting pearls before swine for 2 1/5 hours.

Forrest could explain to him how to add numbers by counting on his fingers and Gramps would reply 'but where do these numbers in the hundreds come from?'

@@rockmusicvideoreviewer896 "But how do you get to 11?" "Ok, ok, but what about 12?" x infinity

My blood pressure kept going up every time Gramps opened his mouth.

It’s a bit sad how he simply rejects what Forrest says simply because he wants to believe in his god.

I go with incredibly dense. Hanlon's razor.

I'll go with purposely dense. To actually learn the source material would ruin his world view and he couldn't let that happen.

Yes, I admire Forrests patience as well. And his civility. I was too frustrated to even watch a third of the video. I think this guy was both dense AND dishonest.

Exactly.... it's excruciating to watch this guy...

I think both. Creationists usually are a combo.

We can all appreciate Forrest's willingness to teach, but this gramps dude was clearly not interested in learning anything new. He is nothing more than the super sweet and overly nice version of Kent Hovind.

@CaptFoster5 damn i wouldn't insult gramps that hard-core. Maybe Ken ham. But hovind? Dudes a criminal of the highest order.

I'm glad he was prepared to have the discussion. But he comes from a very dogmatic position, and was never likely to do anything to harm his cash cow.

​@@archivist17Gramps has confirmed in other interviews that he funds all his "films" himself. They're low budget af, but they don't turn a profit. DjP really likes feeling like his imaginary best friend is the almighty and that he's in the eternal cool kids club (cuz hell is really hot).

Forrest was clearer than ever on every topic. It would take some effort to not understand what he was saying. But Gramps fought hard to cling to his worldview!!

That last one a couple minutes before the end was 25 seconds. Jesus that was so awkward. It literally made me physically clinch.

Lol. I started checking my WiFi. Thought there was an outage.

His eyes just have nothing behind them like, it honestly made my skin crawl at times whenever he would stare blankly.

@@itsmedjoom987 That was just his brain short circuiting from the cognitive dissonance.

@@tylerwest719 When Forrest pointed out that Donald would not accept the things he holds as true for any other subject, based only on what he accepts for his god, you can see that there is _something_ going on in Donald's brain; but what results is not a direct response. Yes, I have to agree that internal conflict and cognitive dissonance is the most likely explanation. He _really_ wants his god to be the answer to everything.

So biased 😂

Which country are you in and what is currently going as the 10th grade definition there? I'm currently doing a masters in education (humanities, geography, science and biology) so I'm really curious how close it is to the definition I use when I speak to peers.

I feel like the 10th grade definition isn't far off because it's just the definition in general if you give or take a few simplifications.

@theperfectbotsteve4916 that's why I'm really curious, because the definition starts simple early on and mostly true and then just builds year by year as understanding grows

@@pinkraven4402 I agree, it was still valuable for the people who needed an evolution 101 experience and for people to see the damage that Christianity does to people's minds. I only meant that it was a waste of time for Forrest to spend 2.5 hours providing thorough, thoughtful answers to his "gotcha" questions, only to be told, "Nothing you've said matters because I'm going to believe what I want to believe as if you had said nothing." And that is why I do not buy into Matt Dillahunty's assertion that people do not choose what they believe. Forrest thoroughly debunked that claim with this interview, and for once, I did not enjoy being correct.

​@@IKilledEarlSorry, I accidentally deleted my comment haha. For clarity for anyone potentially reading this, I said that it was not a waste of time, because thousands of viewers can see this conversation and take away from it :D

But I wanted to add something to your comments. First of all, yeah, Donald was really pulling out one fallacy after another and it was an exhausting watch but I think a highly educational one too! Personally, I don't think that Forrest was "disgusted" towards Donald and I don't think that Forrest would ever made such an expression himself as he seemed to be genuinely very, extremely respectful throughout the entire thing. I suppose he was disappointed that Donald wouldn't will to change his mind. To me actually the positive thing was at the end was the moment when Donald admitted that Forrest left him speechless, so that was a relative good thing I suppose. Also I can slightly appreciate the admittion Donald made, like, I think at the end he didn't say explicitly "you could never change my mind" but said more something like "I hope you can't change my mind" and he like admitted that actually that's because of... fear. Fear of nihilism, of the prospect of there not being afterlife and so on. I highly doubt it will be the case and it's probably my wishful thinking but in a perfect world it would seem as maaaaybe, just maybe Forrest put a tiny seed for Donald to maybe at least a tiny bit reevaluate some stuff he thinks. Again, I highly doubt it but Forrest at least made a great attempt at trying. And again, Donald actually said that he thought Forrest adressed everything and did do very well. Small thing but it could be worse haha. It was clear that it was Donald's first time being expose to such a big amount of thorough explanation, sk at the very least it was cool that he eventually even heard it About the issue whether we can choose what we believe in or not, I think that generally we can't choose what we believe in, but we can use some psychological mechanism to supress doubt and to strengthen our believes. For example, if you showed a chicken to anyone, they have no choice but to believe that it truly is chicken. Like, I cannot in any way force myself to believe that you're holding a paper roll or something else. We're encountering our believes (which include knowledge) inside of us. So at the simple fundamental level we can't change that. However of course we can alter how we approach stuff and there are mechanisms of denial for example that allows us to sorta alter our beliefs, but again, you probably know what I mean. If you're convinced about something aka you believe in it, you can't fully consciously change that.

The unearned confidence of old people astonishes me.

Donald is an incredible example of the idea that true ignorance is refusal to accept how little you know.

I do not gamble, but in this occasion I will bet that is *not* his next movie title, or plot. Another comment suggested that the next one will have an emasculated Forrest massively misrepresented as the "evil evolutionist". IMHO that is a more likely outcome.

Or- gramps has no idea wtf he's talking about

😂😂

Gramps looks like the guy in the meeting who hasn't read a single meeting note and tries to hide that with BS, thinking the others don't see right through it. Embarrassing indeed.

Gramps is Homer Simpson with a monkey clapping symbols in his head. Remarkably unintelligent.

He's so smug.

He's got Kenneth Copeland eyes the whole time too.

I think what he meant was 'you have only told me the general process, not the specific steps'. Which doesn't make it any better

Or it means Donald just doesn’t understand anything. He is not super smart.

@@gerritvalkering1068right I mean… we have two hours. Evolutionary biology is a masters degree which takes 6 years to get. Forrest fast forwarded past the syllabus and did like lectures 1-10 in 2 hours

@@RePlayQ Well, yeah. Like I said, it doesn't make the situation any better

He would have been happier if Forest said “it’s magic!”

You mean far away and long dead but still glowy?

@@Dr_Wrong #NotMyLuke lol

@@hunterhall1575 My Luke died the day Disney signed the check to Lucas..

@@Dr_Wrong well, technically he died 1.232 movies after 😅

Well, um, actually, hypothetically, let's just say

Human immune systems have entered the chat.

@@heatherdorrellAppendix: "Let me introduce myself and ruin your day."

The perfection argument can be refuted simply by the fact that eyeglasses are a thing.

@@Thiefnuker That thing actually has a use: it stores bacteria, to stabilize the intestinal flora

Yeah I can totally see why Forrest didn't go there and was preoccupied with other thoughts. But I was screaming in my head, we're so not perfect. And I've seen Forrest and Matt rattle off lists of imperfections in the human anatomy before and was so ready to hear it there.

Met his match? These two people aren’t even close to being on the same level.

He probably wasn't aware he was being slapped around. He probably thought "God put me here for a reason, and His will is being done" or some nonsense like that. Praying instead of listening (hence the long silent pauses).

The amazing hair is just the cherry on top

Mean, but incredibly accurate. 😂

Accurate!

On top of that, the toddler is in denial of the existence of Rockets and continually fighting every single statement

Religion turns adults into toddlers.

Yeah Donald was never gonna hear a word Forrest said, other than “I believe in Jesus now”.

I wish I could understand that mind set. I was raised Catholic, and it just never made sense to me. How do you believe something just because someone says it's true.

Kind of like Forrest with God.

@@gsp3428 you are lying. forrest plainly says multiple times he is open to evidence, and willing to change his mind. donald says the opposite, he doesn't want to change his mind. does god like it when you lie for him?

'I have studied the sword for decades. A sword is a cylindrical lump of wood. Let me tell you all about swords.'

​@@antediluvianatheist5262I look forward to a log fight with you😊

Gramps also talked about read books (not citing any) on Evolution which makes me wonder if he just flipped through them without understanding anything.

Nothing behind those eyes

100%

More like the lights are on, but he refuses to answer the door.

Are we sure the lights are even on?

Forrest: “Does that make any sense what I’m saying”? Gramps: Nods head with a very blank look on his face.

I think it may be an unfortunate combination of pride and fear of mortality.

​@@miclagaceit's wilful ignorance

right, you can see in his face that hes paying attention to Forrest's explanations, but once its his turn to give his thoughts, you can see on Donald's face that he's looking for something to confirm what he already thinks

Didn't he phrase it more like "how would we even have the 'idea' to start seeing"? I.e. completely missing the point that _any_ type of sight, even just _very_ rudimentary, will probably be an advantage (in an environment that has light): To avoid predators, to access more energy (be it by doing photosynthesis or by eating other stuff that does and will therefore be more plentiful when there is light), to find more/better partners for procreation (which would be a secondary effect after that mutation already significantly manifests in the population, because at that point that's simply where more/healthier individuals will be), ...

Forrest just screams Mutation and Time but he’s 100% wrong, Time of the Gaps argument is fading fast the more we learn

@@TheDjnatronic literally every syllable of what you just said was incorrect lmao.

I said the same thing.

Judging from his responses I'm guessing his research for his book consisted of listening to apologists and nothing else.

God to tell me in a dream that evolution is real

And theists just love to tell everyone that the terrible atheists are not open minded? My mind is open theists, change it by all means. I heavily encourage you to give me good reasons to change my beliefs and my worldview. My beliefs are not set in stone and I do consistently change my mind when provided compelling evidence and good reason.

I'm noticing a trend lol

Yeah, Ken Ham lost the debate the moment he admitted that. It shows that his motivation is something other than the pursuit of truth.

the difference is that Ken Ham somehow was less intelectly disingenious than Gramps here

If saints were real, I’d say Forrest has the patience of one.

It literally was a 2 hour biology lesson 😂 this would be useful in educational settings haha

Sometimes you only need to hear someone talk about something and they have told you all you need to know.

I was cleaning my bathroom when he said that, and I looked up in shock- directly into my bathroom mirror. Never have I seen such a flabbergasted look on my own face. I kind of wish I didn't know I could look like that, lmao

This comment he said was so unbelievable I was completely stunned. I'm rarely speechless but I could not comprehend that this could be a genuine thought. Does he think headaches are because of a lack of aspirin in the body? This one statement is enough to pretty well discredit any argument he has.

The strange thing is Donald asked about macro evolution and Forrest said let’s get onto that before asking what Donald’s problem with it is and Donald went off on a tangent about big pharmaceutical companies charging extortionate prices for drugs. What has that to do with the topic of macro evolution?

@@murph8411 My experience living in a conspiracy theory heavy community is that he was trying to cast doubt on science in general. Essentially, God gives us all of the answers we need, but then scientists come along and construct a lie to sell us for their own purposes. Ie. scientists (or, more importantly, their funders) are politically/financially motivated in one case, therefore he thinks we can assume they are in all cases.

Circular reasoning. A poison that Christianity generally hails as a cure, alongside the poison called blind trust masked as "faith."

They use a book to justify the existence of a character _in that same book!_

Spiderman?@@wintergray1221

​@@wintergray1221 Harry Potter books confirm that the fictional universe is real. Harry Potter books are real, I can see them... so what they say is the truth.

@@vez3834 Wouldn't surprise me if the next isekai novel is "That Time I Got Reincarnated into a Crapsaccharine Wizarding World Wrote By a Bigot" 🤣