I Need Your Help 

Thank you all for the suggestions and feedback thus far! I should have clarified in the video about the risers. All good there and I have a plan to elevate the track for the tall rolling stock. I am mostly looking for suggestions and ideas for the elevated track plan/ mountain idea. Your ideas are extremely helpful!

The hard part about the upper track turnaround is that it's so close to the town it'd be difficult to mask it with a mountain unless you put in a sheer cliff face there. And I don't think it'd look right. Raising the track, if you're not going to move it around, is the easy part. Just 3D print some spacers to go on top of the supports. Biggest trouble there is raising the portals and possibly the mountain where the upper track disappears into the mountain near the fireplace.

As for the loop @ the town, I would recommend a simple 1in wooden block riser painted to look like cement or brick. It may be possible to "hide" the track by altering the backdrop and background by adding a few cement grain tower's similar to what is seen in the Wichita, Kansas yard near downtown. It may require slightly adjustment to the loop and pushing it back into the cubby space slightly. The other loop near the fire place, I would consider doing a an graduated height increase from the scene you want to keep to a elevated line connecting both loops. The bracing for the elevated line could be based off the same girder supports used by Chicago's "L-line" elevated subway line. For the return back to the fireplace, hide the line behind the backdrop as to give a break up to the loop.

Great video RBP! I suggest connecting both of your upper loops somehow with a single track so you could keep them as two separate yet connected circuits. I also think that would be interesting if you did a mountain in the Bailey Township though I feel like it would cause some major clutter. The way I think it would have to work is the mountain only cover a little over half of the end of the “dogbone” end of the track and then connect to the backdrop. That would create an interesting complex of tunnels underneath to service the mainlines and the upper loop but it would help hide the turn around and add a new element. The part of the loop you don’t cover with the mountain could be on the edge of a cliff similar to the part of your layout by the big double track bridge. Just some ideas!! Keep up the great work!

For the issue with cars not clearing the underside of the bridge, I suggest raising the part of the bridge up a quarter inch

Chris, I have always enjoyed your track plan. With that said, I would not want to cover up that turnaround with a mountain, hence hiding trains. I would make risers out of wood for each Trestle shaped like a concrete block. After all cutting and shaping completed, I would prime, and paint with Gray Stone accent paint, available at Ace, Home Depot, or Lowes. It has a sandy rock like finish. Joe Gozzo

Don't forget to check the tunnel clearances aswell it definitely helps if you have an NMRA gauge (if they make them in O scale)

I would say keep the two tracks on the upper level past your bridge and wood cabin scene, then put in a switch bringing the line into 1 track to continue to the other end of the layout, then put another switch in to make another reversing loop. This would mean youd only have to run 1 upper level track over your yard area.

What about a large factory instead of a mountain? You have sidings already in place, so something like an iron works or steel mill. Accessibility to the back is still key, but all the buildings and piping would conceal quite a bit

I think for the 2nd level of track you should raise the support beams by putting a small piece of wood or extruded foam that is like at least and inch, for the bottom of the of the support beams. I think it will work

Yes! A scrim (backdrop) that you can hang from the ceiling would be ideal! Something printed on canvas that you can easily move if you need to get to the storage behind. Same goes for covering the fireplace. Great idea to join both elevated sections together, perhaps using a causeway that you can navigate under. It should also not be too much of a problem to elevate the sections of track that are preventing the rolling stock from moving under.

For the two upper tracks, connecting them into one upper loop would seem to be a noble goal from an operational standpoint. However, it would probably require single track in areas to avoid being obtrusive in the area above the big yard. This single track would be problematic for running two trains at a time on the upper loop, which is nice for photography. So I’m not sure what to do here. If I were to do a double track upper loop over your big lower level yard area I would borrow from my home city of Philly and build a high line structure over the yard.

For you double bridge loop, I suggest a building rather than a mountain. For that area, it seems fitting to have a destination or at least a building. Like a building the train can go through.

I love the 49er themed Challenger on the other freight train plus the string of hopper cars. Whatever engine pulls that train, I love it!

Something you could do is just trip notches in the track for cars to go through They have actually done something similar with tunnels like tehachapi pass, to make modern cars like double stacks fit, they cut the tunnel roof to be more like a square instead of rounded. By cutting corners into tunnel roofs it allowed modern cars to go through. So you could just trim the overhang of the track pieces that are low

Although extending the upper loop to connect with the tiny one would be awesome and gives more track to run, it takes away another running train. About the mountain? Go for it! A hidden reverse loop is always helpful

For the small loop you mentioned in the beginning, just add a 1/2 to 3/4 inch “concrete” or gravel pad under the supports and add more of the backdrop, just put it on a hinge so you can access your storage. For the corner with the mountain, make both lines go side by side into the mountain and out, and follow the wall to the other elevated loop. Just a suggestion!

Adding some small shims under your bridge piers would be an easy fix for your clearance issue. It also would be cool to see your elevated lines connected into 1 huge main line , maybe make the 2 into 1 "dog-bone" style? More trackage and more room for bigger trains seems like a win-win. Enjoying the videos , thanks !

I got two ideas. You could move the backdrops closer to the front of the layout so the elevated track does some of its loop behind it. This would also allow it to look like it’s going somewhere. Other idea is more expensive where you could build a lift bridge and connect the two elevated lines with it, but it might make the layout feel closed off.

I’d take the whole upper loop out, cut some sub roadbed out of half inch plywood and then replace the track with gargraves. If that’s your plan anyway that would be a good place to start. Then for the bents, you could build some yourself in a simple jig that would be taller than the Lionel ones. Bob Bartisack (I just totally butchered his last name!) has an article on his website for building trestle bents.

The only cone shape to hide the turn around is a Volcano scene. Also raising the upper tier about 1/4 inch should give you enough height without changing to much. Camera angle that is another matter. Not sure the best way to do that although you could a a helix loop to the layout and go higher as you basement area is not big. Your only option for expansion seems to be up.

For the loop by town try making it a slightly raised gradient and put it in the middle of the lower track if you can that way you have a bit of room to raise it up a bit, for the other overhangs do a small little “speed bump” so it gets raised over the track and then lowers just before the tunnel

Good thoughts Chris...however mountain buildups can appear to consume too much space and be cluttered. My 8x16 layout is winter themed. I have an (incline) just raised enough to give skiers and hikers a realistic view. More spread out than tall. It's all about what we enjoy working with and the materials we have on hand. I'm sure your final decision and completion will look terrific. Just a thought ! ✌

Hi Chris one idea on your turn around instead of a mountain you could scratch build a couple of warehouses the trains actually go through or behind and maybe connect your two upper loops or lower the main line on the D T shortline the trains go behind the Harry Potter castles

Yes, connect the 2 elevated areas, and put a snow covered mountain with a ski hill and lots of pine trees behind Bailey Twp.

If you connect one loop of the high rise to the other loop on the other end of the layout you should make a big suspension bridge or some sort of cool bridge. Or if you decide to reduce the work load what you could do is make a slight hill from the outside of the tunnel to the loop until the hill is high enough for the hobo and the intermodal cars. The actual turn that’s causing clearance issues shouldn’t be inclined unless you want a derailment. Hope I make sense Chris!

Just make an indent in the table so that the lower track can dip down, this idea is based on how my town solved this problem

Love to see KCS power. It’s something that you don’t see often on most videos made by collectors on you tube

Yes it is a real paint scheme. It was used on streamlined 4-8-2 locomotives. Sadly this paint scheme wasn’t called the “Hot Dog” it was called the “49er” and had that exact paint scheme as the challenger. But no, the challenger didn’t get the 49er scheme.

It is really up to you what you want to do to your layout Chris.

Hey Chris, after a little research and some pondering I think I have a solid idea (in theory) for concealing the upper loop. My plan involves moving the station closer to the rest of the town in between the two spur tracks with the tankers and the Pennsylvania diesel locomotive. If that is possible, I believe that would add more continuity to the layout of the town. Then, where the station is currently, you could add a mountainside to continue the theme you like so much already. Then you could make it slowly take over at least half of the loop from the side closest to the wall to the apex of the loop opposite the two-track bridge. You could do this with a large cut, making the trains disappear from certain angles, or you could do a full enclosed tunnel. Then you would have to add two tunnel portals on each end of the lower level of track for each main line as staggering is most often preferred on curves. You could have the first two entering the mountain approximately where the middle of the station currently is, and the other two just before the crossing. Anyways, I know that's a lot of words, but I'm always happy to help!

If you're going to upgrade the layout you should add the N scale as well like a loop within the layout.

Hello Chris, I have been thinking about this since you posted this video. I'm guessing you are probably want to raise it 1.5 to 2 inches taller? For the trestles you could add risers to the bases to you existing trestles if you want to save them and paint them to look like like a concrete foundation. Maybe you could add a single track somewhere connecting the two elevated lines, maybe a double. The existing mountain is a challenge but it can be done! You can raise the tunnel portals, but you may have to re-contour the terrain by the tunnel entrances. Another mountain scene for that other turnaround be will be very cool! I wish I was at your place so I can get a much better evaluation and analysis and help you even more! You can do it and keep up the good work and amazing and fun videos! You take care!

Personally, I love the turnaround area that you have already because you can fit so many trains in one frame and it looks awesome. But, on the other hand, if you could pull off a mountain scene there, you may be able to make it look less crowded. As for your elevated track issue, you could build supports that allow for space directly underneath them , so your overpass on the right corner would possibly fit better (and of course allow you to make them taller) I have had lots of experience with this type of issue on an old layout due to size , and hand-built supports did the job for me, though it is a tough solution. Just a suggestion though!

Thanks, Chris, for this challenge. Quite a conundrum you've got to solve. Not having an actual layout, I can still appreciate the difficulty you face. As you suggest, connecting the two loops together, joining each end of layout into one large one would save the town scene, but would require the raising of the upper tracks on both sides to allow for larger freight to pass under. You would also have to choose between a duckunder or a gate-like opening to get into the control centre. Of course, the final solution is up to your excellent knowledge and skill at planning and modelling. As always, love your videos and your sense of fun!

Chris we spent all summer raising rails and building taller tunnel portals. Good luck. We had to raise a hole town it was a big pain. If you need larger tunnel portals let me know.

I love the pink engine on the freight train. It looks exactly like the Commodore Vanderbilt.

you could raise the overpass by about half an inch, just glue some popsicle sticks together and shove 'em under the the supports.

I imagine that scale would be easy to work on and have room for various added electronics ideas. Room for all kinds of micro Arduino experiments etc. Easy to add extra running LEDs etc.

Quarter inch plywood - make small platforms for the risers to sit on. I had to do the same thing!

The loop would be easy to cover up in theory. The hard part would be the physical labor of doing the construction. I am an N scaler myself, so I am not too sure your options but since you already have a town around the loop you are wanting to hide just build larger buildings and have the trains run through the buildings. A mountain wouldn’t look right unless it was a straight boxy looking land mass. After watching your video on benchwork, I am trying to figure out a good suggestion for your elevated track dilemma. Instead of looking at ways to raise the elevated line, is there a way to take away from the lower lines? I know you use the pre fab track but, in N scale, the unitrack is taller than flex track and snap track. Not sure if there is a height difference in Lionel. If there is then maybe replace some of those pieces and just have gradual dips.

I have a suggestion, first elevate the elevated line and move the bridge to make it face towards the mountain with the tunnel and keep the loop there, you’d have to do some stuff to the loop at the town but yea.

Consider converting the upper level to more of and elevated style (NY or Chicago) and use an elevated station behind the town to visually block the other side of the turnaround

Your show is super well done!! Great to see young blood into trains

I love the locomotives on the display shelves. Plus the Heritage units.

For concealing the mountain idea have the upper track look like its going around a mountain and where it cuts over the line on the other problem part to the south part of the yard put tunnels.

You are right about a railroad always needs to be worked on or isn't finished, I have a ho scale layout of csx that I think isn't finished yet

A bit late to the comment party...two ideas...one would be to use some taller buildings...like apartments to mask the upper turn around. Your happy town lends itself to residence verses industry. Now for the elevated section....I wod ditch the return loops all together, join all of it and have some sort of bridge that would spam the walkway at the front of the layout...while the bridge idea would be a massive undertaking it would add new camera possibilities. And I would also suggest the upper section be double tracked with maybe some crossover switches added. Good luck and hope my comments are helpful.

For your backdrop maybe you should think of a kind of curtain backdrop. So you can slide it in when filming and slide it out of the way when you need to show your trains or do some work at that spot. Have fun changing and rising the tracks. Greetings from The Netherlands, Peter

Bailey, I’d do tall buildings so you can do micro and macro shots . DIY digital just did filming illusions . It would hide it away too.

I like the mountain idea, though as others have mentioned, there would have to be a pretty sheer cliff behind the town. Perhaps instead expand the town into a city with larger buildings with the trains blending into a tunnel that's concealed in the buildings themselves. Though to keep the look of the area, maybe a large factory in brick like the Pullman plant (which could also double I suppose as the North Pole since I heard that was used as inspiration in the Polar Express movie). Again, the trains would go through the buildings. It would take some planning to not make it obvious, but with the right artistic view, I think it could be accomplished.

Video idea of it u want I think it would be fun to see full speed on like big steam locomotives on big boy and see how fast they go around the layout with a timer and then whichever is the fastest wins

Hi enjoy your videos. My suggestion wood be maybe a small hill that is plateaued at top. With some trees to obscure or maybe a park like area on the flat area. Still allowing view of trains or just put tall trees in the middle to keep all track visible.

I used a cliff face to back my town, the I have my upper loop running along on top of it, that helped create a good background for the town. I'm in the process of changing my upper loop over from O27 to O36 fastrack and I'm going to use those same fastrack risers with some wood pieces painted like concrete under each one to add some height. My tunnel isn't high enough for some of my pieces but since I don't run scale stuff I'll leave that project for another time.

When he said model railroad ers assemble there should've been a cool montage of model trains racing down the track to cool music.

Add a spacer either directly below the track or under the supports that are under the track.

on your remodel job , maybe put the over head cables for the acela . a demo or small portion area .

You could use a file or saw on the ballast part of the fastrack to make it so the auto racks can fit and only run one container on the husky stacks. Also you should go to the north penn ogauger run for fun.

For the turn around, maybe a big shed? And pls connect the to upper tracks if you can.

Raise the over pass. Wood blocking formed to the exact specs on the bottom pillars It’ll give you the clearance

You might try adding some shims to the bridge supports then raise the main tracks to match the grade and there wouldn't be that much tear down

love the vid i do say you need to raise the upper tract a little bit like enough to fit the higher cars but not that much because we wanted to stay simple but you're going to have to raise all the detail on the higher levels like the tunnel so that's going to be a challenge for you to figure out by yourself. keep up the good work

Brother I love the layout the way it is I like seeing the trains all the way through

I would pull the upper loop entirely & redo it as a simple oval mounted to the wall - have it run the full outer perimeter of the room. If you don't want to mess with the door & window area, you could instead have it hop from one table to the other with a lift bridge. This would let you run 072 curves for the upper layout, give you plenty of room for mountains, and you get to play with some very long / cool bridges as well. Just realize you'll have to get creative with the bridges - I don't think you're going to find an off the shelf option that would do your layout justice.

A scrap yard and new bridges that are taller for your taller cars to past under also some new mountains and sky backdrop to fix it

I would consider building a suspended framework that supports the majority of the mountain needed there from the ceiling. Thinking of hanging all-thread rod down that would support the wooden platform just under the new elevation of track and building up and around that. The top that meets the ceiling could be cloaked in "clouds" like you see where some layouts have the thunder and lightening sounds, and the controls and speaker for that system would be mounted in.... you guessed it, inside the top of the mountain on a shelf supported by the aforementioned all-thread rods. Having that hollow with shelves inside would allow for control and automation such as when a train passes by inside the mountain a light comes on in a structure to add life to it instead of a static rock.

Im constantly amazed at your photography , editing skills, and imagination... my compliments. Working by myself, I struggle to finish my latest trainboard changes and do my first video. Can I borrow you for a day, even 3 hours in NJ.... my fear is that I forgot what wire goes where in my struggle to finish my walkthru and turnaround loop. Pray for me, often... or at least lite a candle... gary j

Its in town, that upper loop can be an elevated train station with a glass roof

I think the upper track needs to be go up a little bit more to accommodate those double stacks and auto racks

Subscribed. Excellent collection! I won't bother with any suggestions because there are some excellent ideas here but I think a long term goal is to get to the point where you can run scale things (curve/height requirements) on at least one line and you won't look back. I made the same mistake on my first permanent layout and could not run intermodal.

Chris I don't think I can give any suggestions that haven't been given already, but personally I'd be very reluctant to make any major changes, I think your layout's perfection itself. OK, maybe some scenic backdrops for those bare spots on the wall, but that's as far as I'd go. Oh, I don't have Hannah Montana looking over my layout and keeping an eye on things, but I DO have Alan Hale Jr. as Casey Jones (From the kid's TV series of 1959) keeping an eye on mine! You might remember Alan as "The Skipper" from "Gilligan's Island." "Casey Jones" is on RU-vid, easily found, and it's a fun watch!

we mostly all agree to raise your stuff , but many seem to underestimate how much your tunnels thru that mountain complicates things. Ive never tried to raise a mountain, but then again..good luck, my friend ....gary j

I don't have any train layout like that or any model trains but maybe you should put a mountain in the space around the top layer where you were suggesting and in the mountain is like a little space for the trains to rest

Always liked smoking steamer !! First , just raise a little the upper loop , I would also hide half of the loop with a mountain from the double tracks bridge to halfway in the loop . It would make a nice scene of bridge to "rat hole" . You have a beautifull collection !!!

A mountain would work for the south end, you could also add a small grade so that the autorack can pass

Id really like to have that up challenger set up.

2 weeks ago I finished my quest and and I Now Have seem ALL 6 of the UP HERITAGE UNITS!

You know, I'm in love with pretty much the entire layout.

I used to make train videos with my kgtrains channel and helped several other channels in my day including Toy Channels ...I recommend losing the elevated track. mount some permanent (GoPro type or other) cameras on stands at key points, start all the cameras at the same time (ipad or iphone) and they use a Clapperboard or similar device. This allows you to sync the videos starts based on the sound files and the "clap". If you edit a lot of videos, you know what I am getting at and finally.....if you must use smoke in the videos hang a ventilation duct or ducts driving by a small fan. smoke plays havoc with auto-focus cameras...... ...and get some really long USB cables and USB POWERED hubs so you don't need to charge camera batteries all day long.....My experience is that a layout used for fun, isn't the best layout for making movies. Remember the old Lionel display layout, it was great for filming because it had really wide curves and really long straits without much details.... check out MrMuffins videos for a layout that is nearly impossible to film because it is so busy with stuff.

Maybe raise it up and make a large loop but also connect it to a smaller one so it can be a big loop or 2 small loops or make it into a subway line

I would suggest that you elevate that part of the layout with a more detailed, cooler looking steel bridge. Lots of cities had steel train bridges, so a steel bridge would look at home near that downtown section. I would suggest that you hand build it, or have it hand built. I would also suggest using photos of older steam era steel bridges in real life to model after. If that does not suit you, then you can have your children build a popsicle bridge. I think that would Al’s be very nice because it shows that your model railroad is about fun, and the kids have a part in it. Anyway, I hope you have good outcomes with this project, and I can’t wait to see the end result.

1 See if you need 1/4 to 1/2 in higher to meet all clearance options. Have 1 line that doesn't go under another for max clearance.

I wish I was him with all these locomotives and rolling stock, all I have is a small train set that's put away.

It would be a big change but I think I would try to double track the entire elevated portion and eliminate both the turnarounds then connect it via a giant custom bridge over the main aisle. This would make a giant double tracked loop around the entire layout with potentially wider turns allowing bigger locomotives and rolling stock to run up there. Like I said huge change but I think that's what I would try. A big potential problem would be the bridge obstructing certain views. Most of the areas you wanted to preserve on the elevated section seemed to be double tracked already.

The sound effects on the first engine are so amazing and I love the American whistle !! Like they said in the "It's a wonderful life" movie: You know what the three most exciting sounds in the world are? - Breakfast is served. Lunch is served. Dinner... - No, no, no, no! Anchor chains, plane motors and train whistles. The black engine has a typical German steam whistle, very funny ... As for the clearance problem: Maybe you just elevate the whole top level a bit? Like an inch or two? And yes: some concealed track, maybe a steep cliff that hides that very tight loop on the upper track, would look amazing!

Have you thought about maybe doing some sort of high rise tower instead of a mountain? Something that looks older not so modern with Some nice pillars in the front.

I honestly have no idea what to do for the south area of the lay out. It’s kinda a tough spot to work on. Maybe try and do work on the track under the overpass area and find the right combination? Or raise the overpass so the hobo and larger cars can make it through? I have no idea Chris haha it’s a tough spot.

I really like the open turn around. Have you thought about hiding Hal of it. Specifically the back side of the loop. Visually you would see the train disappear and then reappear over the town. This would solve the proximity to the street scene issue.

Hay brother so what would do is just rip it up and build it again but you do what you want and have fun !!!!

Now I am by no means what so ever a model railway/railroad expert. heck I haven't even built one myself due to A. high model prices, B. lack of space, and C. any models I DO get are beyond repair. But...perhaps sticking a old barn style bridge under the upper line of track, in scale and big enough for any car of course, could add some extra detail to the layout while also pushing the upper line's track up. It could also double as a road set piece for some more cars, and you could make the tunnel look old and worn out so parts of it can be see-through. As for the city-scape shot....I'm unsure...sorry, like I said I've never made a layout before fore several reasons so this is the best I can offer advice wise.

You could make up different types of bracket hangers to mount cameras for the different angles for your videos brother.

Hey Chris! Perhaps purchase a pull down green screen ( similar to a movie screen). Then you can pull down when needed to drop in a new background in post production! I often do this on my channel to change things up. When not in use, the screen rolls up to the ceiling out of view! All the best! Doug from Full Earth Workshop

RC helicopter and drones flying over the train sets and special effect night time sky with twinkling stars, moon and daytime sky, sun, clouds, ocean simulation too could be a video of whales and dolphins jumping in the background of the train set too. all interactive electric skies over your train sets. Your train sets would be even more magical to watch.

I would raise the upper level by two inches. If you can switch to the Chicago EL style supports and lose the FasTrack it would be less invasive to the surrounding scenery. I would connect the upper loops also. Maybe put a switch at either end so you still keep the line going through the tunnel and it's just one straight line connecting the two upper loops. Might have to lose the Lego buildings or at least relocate them. As for the backdrops I would get 4ft. high masonite and wrap it around the back of the layout. Probably would have to screw it into the bench work. Then you can get the fancy photo backdrop scenes like Jason and Chris have. Where in the layout would this lift bridge be that you were talking about doing on the OGR Forum? How does that factor into all this redo? Good luck with whatever you decide! Thanks for all you do for the hobby!

The mountain is a good idea are you going to have the train go inside the mountain or around it extend the upper loops pretty sweet I look forward to seeing your final design I'd love for your engine to go inside the mountain and go underneath the main table and come out from a different area good luck 👍

If there ever was a recast for “Blues Clues” - this guy would totally be the new Steve.

I would skip the mountain and hide the city end return loop with lots of high rise structures. See George Selios' Franklin &South Manchester for inspiration.

You could place a monument, statue or tall structure of some sorts in the turnaround

Mountain scenes are always appealing.

Chris, if you plan to spend the time and moneyon the upper loop, i woukd raise it to clear double stacks underneath. Then i would replace the curves with 072 curves so you can run the biggest on the upper loop. And if the loops are seperated, just add 4 switches and run 2 lines across following the back wall to make it dog bons like return loops, but if you want to keep it seperate with two trains on either end you still could do that. Also test fit everything above and below. Ie overhangs outside with a big boy and inside overhangs with a dd40ax.