The BIG BOY needs a DIESEL HELPER? Why? 

But those old Loco's were MEANT to work, that's what they do best.

@@jacknedry3925 While that is what they were made to do, it's not what it's doing anymore. Now it's a living history piece, which means being nice to it so we can continue to have it and see it for many years to come.

@@jacknedry3925 u are right ha 844 killing human big boy pulling a twain

Thanks for the info on having the diesel in tow behind the big boy. I had always thought that it was there to provide modern electricity to the passenger cars as well as help the steam engine not work so hard over the hills.

I've also read that the diesel is there because the FRA wants it there, just in case the steam loco experiences some kind of failure, the diesel can be used to keep the train moving.

which is nonsense.

@@hawkdsl Not in the least.

@@phoenixrising4573 again, multiple interviews with UP, the diesel is only there for electric power and dynamic braking. There is no need to baby the steamers, as UP has a dedicated steam shop.

@@hawkdsl we’ll what if the big boy ran out of fuel or water what would you do than?

@hawkdsl Or if the steam engine had an issue the diesel could limp the train to the nearest spot out of the way so the mainline could stay operational.

I like your answer the best. I'm thumbing up this comment. No engine should walk the rail life alone. Locomotives Lives Matter, bruh.

@@rdallas81 i read somewhere that they applied some of the diesel's braking power uphill " for fun" and he gained speed lmao so aside from the help in braking its hilarious to hear people go but it needed a helper, like nah big boy needed some young engine to roll his eyes as he was forced to listen to the old timers story's haha

@@jessegruber8690 Right!

yep, but times have changed. Needs water along the track!

I think it actually doesn't now.. in fact its just there in case, and it has its own steam power generators and compressors now too it appears they installed them sometime last year.

I think the boss at APL wanted to have the stacked train pulled by a steam engine. There's a story about that somewhere...

@@eva.cassidy The story I heard was that the yard boss walked up to the Challenger crew and said something like "Hey, can I borrow your locomotive?" The Challenger crew said something like "Hell, yeah!" and the deal was done.

@@eva.cassidy Didn't on of the diesel units experience a major electrical failure and small fire before they hooked up?

@@phoenixrising4573 Something like that, yeah...

It was a scheduled photo shoot request by APL. Nothing broke down unexpectedly. For the famous shot of it cresting Archer Hill, what they did was get it up to 50 mph on the downgrade west of Cheyenne and used the trains momentum to get it up and over the shorter Archer Hill located east of Cheyenne. In other words, it was a carefully planned event.

modded minecraft taught me it was called that

What do people normally say?

@@NeonNijahn usually pipe

Sewer pipe

@@andreweppink4498 -_-

Antique car world is similar- scrounge for parts and accept what you get .

I still work on DC-3s occasionally. T6s, Stearnans, a DC-6 awhile back but they're all nearly gone now. I'm a radial engine mechanic, but mostly I work on smaller flat engines these days.

Saw a B17 when I was younger and there was a team of mechanics who had a cylinder off right on the tarmac. Hadn't thought of that in years but it makes sense that you gotta do what you gotta do with old machinery like that

@danmanthe9335 I work like that all the time. Out of the back of my truck. Most small General Aviation aircraft were built in the 1960s and 1970s.

Our museum has our own C-47. D-day vet too! I agree. We will run her for a week, do an inspection, perform maintenance, then back out she goes! By the time winter layup comes around, it's all work. Engines and props off, oil pans out, everything is disassembled. The engines only run for a couple hundred hours before rebuild, so keeping that time low is important.

Isn't there another car in the excursion consist that provides HEP for the train? I paid close attention once and looked up the car (can't remember the number) It was a converted steam car that now provides HEP.

Can confirm, Large Lad consist had one or two dedicated generator cars in the consist.

this reaffirms what I had heard and learned myself. I knew braking was a significant factor in a diesel helper because old school brake rigging like the kind on those old passenger cars or the massive brake shoes on the large lad proper do not grow on trees and when you wear them the steam crew is the crew who has to fix them. the thing about the sand getting into parts and ruining them was new to me. I love your videos because they are practical and informative from an operations side of view not just railfan speculation and guesswork.

Thank you! Many people fail to consider that regular service freight locomotives haven’t had steam generators/ HEP for many decades.

If you want to hear and see some steam at tonnage and at speed I present you with this, half of them don't even have diesels on the back!!! ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-O4c4SmlV0-o.html

Damn straight.

kinda reminding me of how the USS Iowa had a gun explosion from using 20 year old powder charges and barrels because those things where not made in BATTLESHIP size anymore

​@Jean_LucLikeTheCaptain Though contributing factors, I'm pretty sure the lack of safety on the rammer was ruled the cause through all the investigations (though the initial claimed it was a purposeful overramming to detonate a sabotage device when they scapegoated Hartwig). It was actually found the trim charges attached to the bags in the mid-80s were the real initiators of deflagration and igniting the black powder initiator charges on the bags which would set the main charges off.

exactly, cant imagine 4014 with dynamic braking blisters on her sides!

Doesn't that mean that in a way the diesel is essentially acting akin to the caboose

@@daemosblack pretty much!

I caught her outside Chester IL in August of 2021. I was roughly 8ft from her side at a level crossing outside town. That three chime is burned into my soul lol

@Just a T114 My grandpa used to have 2 layouts in his basement, an 8x8 for the N and HO, and a 16x8 for the O guage. His prized Loco was a Lionel steamer, a 700e Hudson that he scraped and saved for in 1940. After the war he got his Super Chiefs (he had 3).... He used to talk about how he was sad he never got to see a Big Boy in action. He would wax poetic about seeing the older steamers in his youth, but always wanted to see "one of those big UP locos". I'm man enough to admit I cried the day I saw 4014 pull away. Wished Pop could've been there with me for it.

I met Ed in Duluth Minnesota at the DNE 28 kick off. I was part of the crew. We talked for an hour about the restoration. He is a very knowledgeable man when it comes to steam. Yes he is a class act.

It’s whistle really punches you in the chest man it’s amazing

Hey, no fair! In October 2019, I only got to talk to Ed for about two minutes.

as an armchair railfan, I knew B & O has historic archives and those useful nuggets of information way before UP overhauled their challenger locomotive.

This is definitely one of those topics that people outside the industry really don't seem to understand, hence why I wanted to make this video. Same goes for anything related to PTC.... lol

Well said, from both of you. I’m a weird sort, so they say, and I do a lot of research. I agree that having a diesel to save fuel for the steamer is a good idea. So, from the guy who has studied the history, and now works in the modern day… The Big Boy can’t just be shut down in the middle of a trip, that would damage the main cylinders in short order. Brakes, they would be hard to find these days. Shoes would have to be fabricated at a high cost for the application, because the run would be so small, not to mention having to be upgraded with modern materials. Fuel, well, the conversion to burning oil helps to transport and deliver as opposed to trying to get coal to who knows where these days, and then load it… Water, not only would a city supply be a bit taxed in some smaller towns, it also has to be tested, and the additives put in. Judging from the extra tenders, I would say that there is at least 20,000 gallons behind the old boy. Big Boy locomotives never pulled passenger, so there is no electric or steam to supply those cars with. The sand makes a mess, it gets crushed to dust, and blow everywhere… I would love to see the engineer getting out with an oil can to add a bit of lube to bearings during a water or fuel stop! PTC has been used on steamers in the past, picking up a signal from the rails. They still send signals through rails these days. Put a transistor AM radio set where there is no station near a mainline rail and the signal becomes audible, but don’t trespass where you shouldn’t be.

@@dangeary2134 At least one Big Boy actually *did* pull passenger trains. 4005 was fitted with steam heat to pull troop trains, and it still has the steam heat controls in the cab.

As far as I know, the brake shoes are not modern, they’re still using the same cast iron shoes they’ve always used. The difference is they’re not ordering thousands at a time, it’s just a couple hundred probably, if that. They’re bound to be pretty heavy for a machinist to hang one when it’s time to change it too. I’ve changed a few normal sized cast iron shoes on some SW 1500 switchers when I first went to work on the RR and they were pretty heavy and had 4 shoes per axle on units with double clasping brake shoes, but then we went to composition shoes on everything, and now it’s been 10+ years since I’ve seen an SW 1500 or even an MP 15 on the property. They’re building trains in our yard using SD 40-2’s and slugs made from SD 40 and SD 38 locomotives now.

one of the many favorites of old top gear, esp. Jeremy at the end covered in soot a bit.

First time the NY Central tried out the water trays, they hadn't added enough vents to the tender. This resulted in the tender exploding. You could get from NYC to Chicago faster by rail in 1899, on stick rail, with manual signals and hand-thrown switches.

That loco now has ETCS fitted too so that hopefully it can continue to run onto its home turf of the ECML... And in certain situations it can be permitted to run at 90mph instead of the normal 75

I'd believe that any day of the week, shoes for our engines aren't cheap either.

Yeah when you have brakes on a 132’ tube that can weighs the equivalent of a medium 1 story brick building They will be expensive and massive The cost to machine parts like that is enough to make someone break down crying and never turn up again

@@Leatherface123. not only that, but for something that is a public relations tool, and isn’t making a profit either… I’ve seen some people on FB mention how UP is a big corporation that can shell out the money for that, no problem! What they forget is, a company’s purpose is to make money. The fact we have a Class 1 who fully restores an articulated engine and runs it on its line, at what I imagine is a financial loss, surely, for a bunch of idiots who just want to see the steam train, is a miracle enough as it is! So the people, who the vast majority have not/will not ever give UP a dime, demanding them to waste even more money than they are currently, is quite insane to me.

@@coalcountry6795 What percent of UP share-holders are "foamers"? How quick would they be to throw UP execs out if they thought they were jeopardizing their investments in UP on frivolities like running an ancient steam train?

@@coalcountry6795 You get it. I hear this all the time, I use the example of Walmart, if they gave just a $2.00 raise to ALL employees, they would not make a dime, so why bother staying in business. You can look up Walmart's prophets, look up how many employees they have, and do the math. They would be bankrupt over that $2.00 an hour raise. Same goes for UP.

This is a really good point. Hopefully SBRHS works on something similar for the future, so the public can experience the magic of the world’s oldest surviving Northern in operation.

When I went on one as a kid, the steam train was in heavy maintenance, so we only got the diesel. I was sad. Now when I see that old 1958 diesel, it I am amazed by it!

Wait a minute, Ash is a train nerd also... interesting

How big is the boy?

I followed it also, I caught it in Corsicana and chased it to Groesbeck, got videos of one side at Angus and the other side in Groesbeck. It was a fun day, even in the heavy thunderstorm that let up just about 5 minutes before it got to my location a little north of Groesbeck.

I'm just 5 years younger and yeah, seeing Big Boy just a couple years ago when it came through Fremont, NE and Omaha, it really sparked my interest in trains

Much worse and far easier in iems of no water towers would be running the tender dry. Atöeast droppig the fire on an oilburner is as easy as turning the fuel valve shut, but until a tankerload of water or another engine shows up a steamer with no watee isnt going anywhere

Enthusiasm is route to Heaven. You've got it coal spades !. Big boy , rock and roll. Thanks. Dave

it is saved. B & O is repository of all of that information. there was 1 video made during challenger overhaul. UP sometime has the information otherwise goes to museum to get them. it was Ed's job to gather those information. He is fortunate that Big Boy locomotive mostly used same tooling process as Challenger, thus can use same source of spec sheets.

@@rynait now the steam repositories of information need to be digitized to save it in case of a fire at such repositories.

You can always just keep your 140 outside of Class A, B, or C airspace and Mode C veils... ...Mode C and ADS-B Out are not required in Class D, E, or G airspace.

@@rescue270 You're right. But I live in the more densely populated part of Central Texas. Besides, we sold the 140. It was my dad's. He recently decided it was time to close out his log book at the age of 84.

Huh, that's a neat tidbit I didn't think about. Grease guns definitely eat a lot of air, that's for sure.

@@Hyce777 just don't try to run steam accessories on air and expect the same efficiency 😅😅😅

surprised, because all the tenders and 4014 have the air hoses and MU plugs to use the air from 4015's air brake system.

On a question like that, google is only as smart as the unaware forums are! Hyce is a great teacher!

There was a 611 steaming in I know wife 611

I saw it that night, but they stopped in Pierce, CO and went back because of some mechanical failure. The take off in reverse was pretty cool since the steam shrouded it like a magician disappearing.

Yes there is a fueling rig that fallows the locomotive, but it only holds so much fuel.

@@Stealthschannel good thing about burning what us essentially filtered waste oil from the diesel fleet, they can get it anywhere they have a service facility, and a small pump is all that's needed to move it to the tender.

The incident where the 4014 pushed a stalled freight train was NOT a freight train with no working locomotives. The train in question had 2 diesels on it and ONE of them failed. The other was working fine. The train was heavier than what a single loco could start on that grade. So the 4014 helped get the train started but the working diesel was pulling at full power. I know in the world of rail buffs they want to exaggerate these incidents to make them more exciting than they are.

Hyce: Marshall stack to the ceiling

I miss playing in the band but I don't miss lugging 4x12's around lmao

I work in a large locomotive shop, there aren’t a lot of things we do to the engines or alternators that can be done without a crane or other lifting device. Ed and his crew don’t have the advantage of a crane while on a trip, short of renting a crane, at best, they could get an MOW mechanic to bring his truck so they could use the auto crane or hydraulic jacks to perform some smaller tasks that can’t be done by hand or with chain hoists.

Also, you hear the whine of the generator and its turbine.

good question, might be hard to explain the smoke coming out the tender!!

That makes sense

I watched a video of a British steam locomotive that they recently pushed to the limits to break 100 MPH. So these things can still handle the demands but you don’t want to do that stuff often.

​@@MS-xh7cwSaid locomotive is brand new (actually boiler is being renewed). If you make a new locomotive in the states, I'm sure you could too. For example that train has an actual generator, not a dynamo, has ETCS, air brakes, and various very modern improvements.

Some railroads? I don't know besides UP, but CSX does not allow steam engines on its tracks...

@@eddieschwab864 glc, CN, NS all allow steam power within reason

I believe it was somewhere around Nachitoches, LA on its way to Shreveport. My dad had drove down to follow it north. They had to refill it with fire trucks.

I’ve seen that vid. They cracked open the drifting throttle and just shoved it with the diesel. They eventually stopped to pump water from the auxiliary tanks into the tender cistern (instead of running them all connected as one tank) and then they continued pushing to their next stop.

Ed Dickens provided information on the locomotive servicing (including restorations), He did not do the excursion planning or the logistics. UP might used RAA source of information and practices. I hope you see that 3751 shows many of those elements that afford Railfan to spot and realize information value in OP's narration is one side (aka ED's version).

I am hoping to do precisely that!

It also seems that R&N uses diesels in a similar fashion to UP when 425 is running. Pretty understandable given their territory, and that 425 is on the lighter side as Pacifics go. Can’t run it in the corner and all the ceiling all the time, and I’ll bet the brake equipment on those cars is expensive.

lots of curves have become tighter since the diesel came along.

He said that but advanced

Yeah, Last year Big Boy came all the way down to my home state of Louisiana, one of the farthest points on the UP network, from its home in Cheyenne, Wyoming. Then loop back around. I think the tour took a month to do.

Still can't run them that fast sadly. They get stuck behind the modern trains, lol.

the Krokodil does have PTC Equipment in form of the Integra-Signum and ZUB systems, but it doesn't have ETCS L2 fitted which they could fit if they wanted to the only Engine that cannot be retrofitted is the Elephant. And the Re 620 only was a ETCS L2 Engine witch probably had no electric currant on it's motors the Krokodil's don't like to be pulled as they tend to runn hot and overheat.

@@nashorn9745 yup if I'm remembering correctly the Krokodils have tin bearings instead of bronze ones which have the potential of melting even at their glacial speeds.

@@burnerheinz a few years back DB had to realize that painfully when they overheated it twice and it took them almost 1 year to fix it

Steve Lee was in charge back then, and he didn't care as much about the long-term preservation costs. As a result 3985 and 844 both got beat to hell; 844 needed a ton of work back in the early 2010s to become functional again. I remember seeing a photo of the inside of 844's boiler before it was restored: there was more boiler scale in the boiler than there was room for water. I'd imagine that 3985 is in even worse condition (UP chose to restore 4014 over fixing 3985!).

That was a special run done at the request of American President Lines, one of UP's major intermodal customers at the time. I suspect APL paid extra for that trip.

You'll note that the challenger is beat to hell, and not running anymore.

@@Hyce777 how many years was the challenger running? i assumed the boiler ran out of time. that's one of the unfortunate things about operation of steam in modern times, FRA compliance..... maybe it's a good thing im not sure. either way it's a fact of life. we have a local short line, arcade and attica railroad. they normally have a steam locomotive, a consolidation but it has been down for several years for a rebuild...... i hope they get her done soon. i miss hearing the sound of the whistle off in the distance. it was like hearing a ghost. they have, and will eventually run excursions with it. for now they have a couple GE 45 ton switchers.

@@Hyce777 At least it got donated to the Railroading Heritage of Midwest America where it will be restored to working order.

There is another...

Isn’t challenger being brought back to working order again

@@RichieGonzales_28 No, the VP who is the boss of Ed, stated at the 150 anniversary that UP would not be rebuilding the Challenger. Now, however, since she has been donated it would be up to the entity that is now caring for her to bring her back to life.