I Spent 9 hours in LFR so you don't 

They should just crank down the difficulty, fill the open spots with npc after 5min qeue, and call it story mode.

Honestly they need to turn LFR into full "tutorial" mode. They've already experimented with the concept with class trials. Imagine giant arrows over what to DPS, a WeakAura like overlay to move out of harmful effects, etc. Provide them even a sliver of a chance to learn something.

I have an alternative idea for you: What if LFR was just about learning the mechanics without having to "herd the sheep?" Make LFR a solo mode like the mage tower, where you're just with a limited crew of predetermined bots, and it's all about learning the mechanics yourself. Then you don't have to bribe better players with rewards that shouldn't be in LFR. And it lets players who just want to finish the quest do it at a reasonable time. In addition, it lets nervous players learn the mechanics, and maybe feel confident enough to try it out on the harder difficulties.

Stays away from the plague in real life. Deliberately dives head first into pestilence ingame so you don't have to.

My grandma and her sister play LFRs. Just keep in mind that the people playing with you may be somebody's kind and lovely grandma who bakes an awesome apple pie and also likes to play WoW sometimes, and be relaxed and nice to them.

Another bs on this LFR is waiting to get party and when you get inside, they already done half of the boss or it is the last boss.

LFR = story, that's why main quests include killing last Raid boss.

I did some LFR in BFA for transmog (or attempts at mog), specifically Battle of Dazar'alor. I have absolutely zero reason to even touch LFR Ny'alotha because the LFR sets are obtainable outside LFR. Blizzard should make LFR the "babby's first raid tutorial" version of the fights, with super clear indicators about how to deal with the different abilities, and I mean that in the best way possible. I don't care about reward scaling or shit like that, but raiding is a super daunting thing to someone who hasn't done it before and LFR could be the perfect system to get people involved. Take the start of this fight for example. The pull begins and everyone starts to phase. The tanks get a message on screen: Tank Psychus onto Synapses to allow DPS to weaken him. After a few seconds, another one: Hold Psychus off Synapses to drop Creeping Anguish. When DPS phase across: When Psychus is standing near a Synapse, killing it will weaken him. Just run it all through the regular alert system. You don't need to incentivise actual raiders to go into LFR, just make LFR better for the non-raiders.

I do LFR because I can't raid, and wait times don't matter, just queue up when I log on, and then go do dailies.... don't hang around waiting! I kinda like the bosses who provide a challenge. No-one learns anything with tank and spank bosses. The worst boss by far for me was Uunat, dear god that was a trial. Went in again with a really over-geared group who still didn't know what to do and found myself having to organise them to just hit the right thing at the right time and get it through their heads that the 'undying' mobs literally wouldn't die, no matter how much you nuked them. N'Zoth, first kill for me had a warlock who really knew what he was doing, calmly organised everyone, and I think it was maybe 5 pulls for the kill. My second attempt was much, much more painful, but we managed it on 10 stacks of determination. Thing is, people actually learn things, learn that they can't just stand there pushing buttons, that they actually have a responsibility, even it it's only to sort out their own sanity with the Heart. I kinda like that challenge.

I would love to see a new "Fresh account" series, like you did at the end of Legion. And maybe compare the different expansions with eachother, pros & cons and if it's as much of a headache as it was in legion to pug pve content.

While we are talking about LFR: dungeon journal is hot garbage currently. I don't know how they organize this thing or what's guidelines to making it, but it's clearly an informational mess that is a big hurdle on LFR, because it's a prime source of information on bosses for people who do want to kill LFR. I understand that it's not supposed to be The Guide, but at least some structure to it is required, since after it's intro in Pandaria bosses became bloated with unique mechanics and spreadsheets of abilities.

I mythic raided all of Legion but still did tons of LFR because there was transmog sets that were worth collecting (white version of Antorus druid set for example). The sets for BFA aren't even worth collecting on heroic, let alone attempting to get them on LFR.

You're a good man Preach, I hope Blizzard watch this

I remember back in Legion, some gilds on my server did "Learning" Raid's for new players, where you could join them on Teamspeak/discord and they took you with them into normal/heroic and explain the abilities and mechanic's etc. I raided a couple of time with them and In that time i learned more about raiding then in 3 years of LFR only. I think it would be awesome if blizzard could give an incentive to these guild's to encourage them to keep doing that, instead of simplifying LFR even more .

I like your approach to 'teaching people' by making them understand with no communication at all. Keep up the good work !

When it takes 4 hours to kill a LFR boss that drops gear you can get in a mythic +2.

Reminds me of when I would lfr kiljaiden even to the last days. You literally had new people/clueless people even then. Kiljaiden was often harder than Antorus fights

Hey Preach, I absolutely love your videos, keep up the good work. I wanted to ask you, if you could do the legacy of cataclysm video, I would be super interested in that, cuz I thinky it wasn't at all as bad as people say, and some things were just amazing about it. Since I know you said in some video, that you actually enjoyed every spec in cata I would love to hear more about it from you. Love you bb

Every single final boss this expansion in LFR has been total clown shoes

Man i havent played retail for over a year but still watch all your videos, I love your takes

I used to be one of those try hard toxic people in LFR back in Dragon Soul. I couldn't understand how people were so "bad" and could fail mechanics that I could clear in heroic easily. After quitting in MoP, and recently coming back almost a decade older and more mature, I get it now. This game may seem easy, but its really complex to an average player. I cringe at the thought of the toxic player I once was

I'm not a raider I simply as preach said went into this just to get my quest marker done and finish the story. I spent maybe 5 hours in the queue and maybe 4 hours in the raid. Nzoth was rough but not too hard and this was the first-ever raid I've done in Modern WoW but really it just came down to knowing what mechanics did what. I come from FFXIV so a lot of this stuff was natural for me to understand. I had knowledge that LFR was supposed to be the baby mode so I was able to shrug off losing just because I thought (well it's a group of randos we'll get it eventually) actually opening myself up more to figuring out what needed to be done on my end. As with any MMO just knowing the mechanics is all you need and we got it done. Perserverance and mechanics knowledge is the foundation of raiding I think and the rest is Patience getting 20+ other people to do the same. Too many people get angry and despair in the face of defeat when they should just buckle up for the ride - and for those who really didn't get it that were kicked, I'm sorry you were kicked but got to focus a bit more.

thanks to your vidoes i spend zero time with 8.3 content because thanks to you i knew its nothing for me. Keep up the work. Cant wait for your shadowlands vidoes to save me from wasting time in that expansion too.

This vid really impressed me when I first saw it and I really appreciate it still.

A system I would like to be implemented is a positive feedback reward system similar to what they implemented in Overwatch. Make a new currency with different transmog rewards/mounts/pets as rewards for people "leveling up" in a feedback system. More instructive/positive one is in chat, leads to people upvoting or commending someone. Those upvotes give that veteran player assisting casuals currency they can then use to buy things they value in exchange for servicing their time in a place with no gear incentive. Win/Win for all involved, without making LFR forced to have zero mechanics, yet at the same time not making hardcore players feel obligated to do LFR. Make the system unexploitable by only allowing commendations outside of oneself or their own premade party.

Think of LFR as story mode. If you are too “elite” or hate LFR, don’t enter it. Decent people who try and help are very appreciated. Thank you for trying to help out. Preach became a true Hero to a lot of people, by having a good attitude and helping out.

Some people mocked me on LFR back in Legion when I was tanking Aggramar like we do on Normal/Heroic. As you remember, he had the Foe Breaker and Flame Rend. I expected Foe Breaker to be a thing and when I told them I didn't know they took it out. Some people did mock while others pointed out that I knew how to tank Aggramar because I knew about Foe Breaker. After that? Clean kill and Argus dead. It takes one person with proper knowledge of upper difficulty with some kills. I've yet to kill N'Zoth because we went straight to Heroic before we even had a chance to understand thr concepts of N'Zoth. We're 9/12H (Il'gynoth is causing some issues at the moment) and it's often the same people who're dying to the same stuff on farm. We had someone dying to Sha'dar despite having pretty much mastered the fight.

It took me 100+ pulls on LFR to get it done. That is with everyone, after 10 stacks of determination. Most of it is just coordinating people who NEVER play together on a boss that requires the coordination of people who always play together. We finally got it done when we had 2 tanks in the LFR that had experience in heroic, 2 healers who knew when the big hits were coming and enough dps on top and bottom that knew how to prioritize a kill. So, we basically did carry at least a quarter of the raid that died early on to things like finding their body or late on by thought harvester. It came down to those who knew calling out "bodies", "neck", "tenticles", "hug your partner". That seemed to do the trick. That said, I consider it a major accomplishment for the year, in a lot of ways it was harder than heroic with my guild and it was actually exciting to actually get it after hours of hard HARD work. BTW, what you said about tanking on the bodies is huge, as a druid its no problem for me to get back, but some people don't have that mobility. Thought harvester was another one. LFR is vital imo, you have many people who only consider raiding the worthwhile feature in all of this game and for whatever reason can't get into a raid. In my guild, its because we have 2 full raid teams, no spots, likely never going to be any spots. My server is smaller so not many options beyond that. In fact, my guild is #1 on our server so the team is just not open for new players. LFR is the only way someone in my guild is going to even sniff a raid. It should be challenging, but not impossible and its borderline impossible for most people. edit: I see what your saying about it having no purpose now, yeah I get that. Having completion of LFR pretty much require a competent full-time raider who doesn't want to do that content is not fair to that raider. Perhaps we need to start looking at LFR as Mythic 0, just getting your feet wet. Perhaps make it training grounds like? A way to learn the mechanics or how to be a raider? FFXIV kind of has a system like this and it lets people learn their role in a raid environment before they go try to raid.

As a returning player I really appreciate this video... I tried talking a pug through the fight and it was hopeless. People don't read. People don't listen. And the toxic fucks are just the icing on the shitcake. Without those better than thou asshats it would've worked. But when the flame makes people leave time and again there's just no way to get a stable group up to Nzoth standard...

Tried N'Zoth LFR this weekend, and it didn't go well at all. When I entered, the raid already had 10 determination (for those who don't know, you get 1 determination per wife, up to 10 max, which gives a total of 50% extra dmg and healing). Even at 10, we wiped something like 10 times before I left. According to the DBM addon, I currently have 27 wipes and 1 win on this fight. So it shouldn't surprise anyone that I've given this up completely, well unless they change the encounter. I'm also losing interest in LFR, which used to be one of my favourite activities in the game.

As a healer i came to like testing things in LFR (MW Builds was my latest one) this Tier. Because for me there is just no comparison when it comes to complete random BS. My favorite is Ra-Den LFR... such... damage. Havent had the pleasure of N'Zoth though because, as you mentioned, the insanity mechanic makes it kind of hard to test things out as a healer. On top of that, i guess that people just arent used to look for a second ressource. So they dont really get "i shouldnt stand in this because... outch", they stand in it an see their life not really taking a dive. I switched mains from the last tier, yeah i know i know , to this one. And within this one i switched Builds twice. And with one Raid Day a week i dont have much of an option =/. Anyway... i completly agree with you though its not that i want to be in it or most of the other people, who queue ,for that matter. so long

Um sir you have been teasing a legacy video for a long time now and i need it in my life right now please.

The funniest part of the video was when you said they could remove Psychus 2 and 3, and people would still get the full scope of the fight. It's hilarious and true, just because of how bad this fight is, regardless of difficulty mode.

In WoD, the satchels for completing an LFR wing in an underrepresented role were very lucrative, dropping runes + a very healthy amount of gold. I had an add-on that tracked and alerted when one was up, and I would farm them while doing world content. Goldmakers put out some videos saying how overpowered of a way it was to make gold, and Blizzard snap reacted and nerfed these satchels, even though this method, as apposed to running old raids, or clicking on a mission table board, should be how Blizzard would want people to earn their gold. Even though improving satchel rewards would draw players across the spectrum of skill, and not specifically get top raiders back into LFR, it would no doubt shorten the queues, making it more attractive to the player base, and thereby flattening the learning curve of the population. Blizzard could also integrate the alert add-on into their base game, removing an additional step to making this happen.

I can't queue for M+ or M0, and staring at the "Premade finder" applying for groups or trying to put one together can take hours and still fail.

Love videos like this, good work keep it up :)

Some irl stuff came up when the raid released so I was unable to join my raid team. I got back into the game and decided to try Raid Finder Nzoth. I'm surprised that it took hours for you Preach because it only took us two pulls to kill it, first one I was confused by everything, then got the gist of it. And second try the raid made it, less than 30 minutes (this was about a week ago on a Disc Priest). Had a 'raid leader' who was calling out instructions and everyone sufficiently followed them for us to make it xD

I've made it a habit to ignore LFR for months after it's released before qing

It is cool preach! Today, I repeatedly stuck my hand in and out of a bag of loose syringes so you didn't have to. Felt like someone should pay you back.

ive recently come back to the game and did a few lfrs for gear, the mechanics are super easy obviously but the boss fights are fun your first time around and im sad i missed out on progression it seems like an awesome tier, makes me want to raid properly in 9.0

Hi Preach. I’m back to wow after a 6 year break! Enjoying your videos, I don’t think you’ve changed a bit...maybe a little less ranty 😂. I see lfr is for me, my gear is weak and I DO have the damn quest to clear and onto the next part of the storyline. I’ve been trying to get it done ALL weak! Have had some nice groups, with decent people in and some awful groups with the leave-after-fails crew that breaks the raid altogether or puts time back on!A couple of things from me if I may... I can’t get to raid in my guild, my gear sux and there’s no doubt an established team. I’m trying to get better gear, take a look at the new raids and learn so I might have some experience to call on should I get the call up...that’s how I look at lfr for mate. A basic biggy that I’ve seen is managing sanity (god I hate the extra layer of difficulty corruption makes, but I’m new back and base it on how it used to be, so I’ll adjust!) and positioning, mainly a good tank WILL make the difference. But here’s the rub, a ROGUE stepped up as our LFR leader after about 4 wipes, obviously had Raif experience and eventually got us through it. Yes a few died but we downed the thing (I was on an alt) and the base reason for the game, was morale and banter that was coming out made it super old school enjoyable. Those are the days that make the game great. Good on you for staying in lfr I think us normals can pick up great tips from running with you elite players, we get more from it, but it’s great to see the game played well. Thanks for posting mate, enjoy your game. I’ll be at this via self isolation Coronavirus for a while so maybe hope to bump into you in a rage fest lfr one day 😂

I went into LFR Nzoth the other day, ended up taking over and giving raid warnings. We got it in about 8 attempts. I definitely agree with what you said about elitism at lower ends.

I like seeing your change of heart over the years regarding LFR. LFR isnt about getting gear. LFR is about clearing that quest log, and letting everyone experience the story.

Omg the psychus thing... you have no idea how many tanks want to kill him on the opposite end of the room, while I'm playing a dk. I hope you can feel a fraction of my pain from this.

9 hours in LFR? You, my friend, are INSANE. You couldn't pay me to do that. You have my respect.

I used to que lfr a lot, reason: I was really new to the game and had never played before so before nyalotha came out I boosted a character and had 270 ilvl, so after doing cloak quests and getting benthic gear and most other stuff to about 350 ilvl the raid came out one thing at a time so I started playing it, since I didn't know there were other viable options, and since I didn't have a raid group to play with. It's biggest use I think is for the people who don't have raid groups in general and want to try the raids

Maybe they should change it to the role agnostic, scenario type 1-30 ppl mode. It would allow peeps to see the content, complete the quests and earn some reward like a loot chest after each wing. A true story mode. Grouping up with randoms is not an environment to learn how to conquer higher difficulties (This sentence kind of nullifies every public system of education in the world.).

Best analysis of the failure of LFR ever. Great work Preach.

Something to remember about LFR is that it gets harder each day after reset.

Deleted the 'go kill N'zoth' quest from my log: Solved!

rly nice video bro, alot of education and fun for me

The weekly cache system was what got me in lfr. Didnt mind carrying a wing for a chance at relevant loot for me

As painfull as it is it's a matter of kicking out the weak till you kill it with what you got. Had this issue the other day nicely explained the issue too the other tank that his gear was too low with a tier 1 Cape ,after replaced boss 1 shot.

Could u do the same thing as u did at the end of Legion with fresh account ?

In legion I'd do lfr for the tier gear or tmogs. In bfa, you can get the lfr tmog gear from quests

Had to spend 4 hours raid leading LFR Nzoth, was pretty chill and a lot of the people were really cool but oh my god, the amount of energy it took and time was insane.

When I did LFR, it was so painful to see nobody interrupt the Corruptor Tentacles. Literally nobody cared about those things. It was so painful.

blizz just preparing us for the removal of lfr in shadowlands

I haven't goen to lfr at all this patch or in EP. Bercause even on a new char I jsut went to m0, and that gave me alot more for my time

Had a great time clearing out my quest log personally. Queued as tank, got in very fast to a group that had already built up 10 stacks of determination, the other tank said he'd handle Psychus and just needed me to jump on the basher tentacles and watch my sanity, and we one-shotted. Can't imagine that's typical, though.

I always thought they should make LFR a catch up mechanic for alts, gear and maybe even levelling, so letting you in bellow level cap and just scaling the bosses. I've recently started diving into lfr without doing it whole expansion just to get the catch up currency.

Yeah, I can only think of maybe three times I've been in LFR this whole expansion. Once to run a friend through to see the fights, once to test out my new healing set-up, and once when I was thirsty enough for just a little more Azerite at the start of a patch. I don't necessarily hate LFR. I credit it for being the one thing that made me want to raid in the first place. But, man, I admit I've been glad this expac that I haven't felt obligated to get in there and I'd be ambivalent about Shadowlands giving me power incentives to join. Just maybe have it drop less trash-tier transmogs next expansion. That's usually about the right level of incentive for me.

I think having mount drop from last boss helps a little, since people, who clear heroic/mythic and are collectors usually want one extra chance every week to drop it, but of course, you can't add mount to every raid in expansion

I have come from the future to tell you, it is probably worse now- after all these months- than it was back then. I just want to get my quest down for completionism’s sake, and I have given up. There is just no point. Even at 10 stacks most groups won’t get to even phase 3 every time. I won’t do that to myself just for some azerite and a completed quest

haven't done lfr since legion, and I don't miss it

7:10 #6 on dmg as resto OOOF

First raid I ever did was LFR Crucible of Storm. Wiped so many times that I quit. It was too difficult. Skip to much later where I got more experience in raiding and my class, I'm raiding HC. It's a shame that LFR gets a bad rep from the 'Elitists'. I did Wing 2 of Ny'alotha on an alt to test my DPS in action. As I was raiding HC on my main. I guided the raid to victory by explaining tacts, using raid warnings, placing markers. And nobody was toxic. One shot all but Vexiona. It was great. They could easily do Normal. It's just a shame that many players leave after one wipe and players become really toxic. I also told these guys they did a good job and should try normal. (The fights don't even differ that much) I think the biggest problem with raids is there are mechanics with mechanics. Mindgrasp is the perfect example of that. Thought Harvesters too. It's overwhelming, especially for LFR. It took me 10 wipes to understand N'zoth. It takes other players 30. It's too confusing so unnecessarily. LFR should be easier to be honest. There's so many mechanics to learn. It would be easier to grasp if they throw the mechanics step by step rather than all at once.

What got me to do lfr was the tier sets. Back in cata I would queue up on my prot pally with a few of the dps lads who all shared the same tier token and after 2 weeks we had the full tier bonuses on those characters which got us into heroic faster. Just give us tier sets back and I would use lfr for at least a few weeks per character.

LFR Kil'Jaeden from the Tomb of Sargeras was the most painful experience ever. I'm pretty sure they have an algorithm where you have 4-5 high ilvl people and the rest are all ranging from bare minimum to an average ilvl, and if your other healers aren't healing (extremely low ilvl, people who queue as heals for a quicker queue and dps anyway, afk-ish people) then you can end up trying to solo heal a 25man raid.

I did LFR n'zoth and it made me realise why i went on a long break from the game, people were getting kicked before the fight began, because it was there first time doing the raid for there quest, and the toxic ones were stroking each others egos and in the end they didnt know the fight them self's,

I just got back to retail after a few months of classic just to have some more wow to play outside of classic. I had no clue what to do in LFR and this fight man.. xD

You just add a potion/Reward box if youre above avg ilvl for the gear that drops; eg, elixer based on spec + Vantus rune

I'll never understand the utter hatred certain streamers (not preach?) have for LFR, Asmongold's podcast mention it every single show as a leading cause of why people don't raid because LFR gear is already too good, all my characters are 445-460 just from world quests and visions, I haven't stepped foot in LFR since Jaina's fight because I wanted to see the area, LFR takes months to come out fully, normal and heroic are cleared on day 1 with pugs.

Pures should get a reward for even quing for any LFD/LFR. The wait time they are forced to endure since they can't do any other role is painful.

2 months have passed since this video, nothing was changed

I remember Lei Shen LFR back in MoP and the fight was simply un-do-able without at least 10 stacks of determination because it was overtuned and people didn't know the phases. At least with lei shen, you could brute force it enough dps from the determ stacks. Stayed that way for a while too until blizz finally nerfed it.

I do lfr because I have a job, look after my house and myself, then have to do office work at home and get maybe 2 hours a day to play few days a week. I used to do hardcore raiding up till cata and I know the level of commitment and time required for it. I'm just not about that life anymore. I'm in my early 20s playing Video games for mad hours is not a good look for me

I've never been a raider. the most I've ever raided was a few normal raids, and I didnt even finish them, so LFR is pretty comfortable for me, I like to come and experience the story so that's all I need. Last night I couldn't understand why it was so hard!we just wiped and queued and wiped and queued. never been so bad. makes me feel slightly better knowing even Preach says it's notoriously difficult!

I posted this as a reply to someone else earlier who had suggested a type of weak aura like overlay to guide people. I'll post it again here for more visibility. I was thinking the same, but without arrows or overlays. Just have an NPC shout stuff, like a person would if they knew the fight. It doesn't have to be too hand holdy, but just enough so that people gain an understanding of what they should do. It could be flavorful too if they want. It's not like we haven't had NPCs join the fight before so it wouldn't even be hard to implement. Just simple statements like "another creature has joined in the attack, take it out quickly or we'll get overwhelmed!" or "BBG is looking like it's going to cast a devastating spell, if you don't stop it, we'll be sure to lose this fight!"

What's amusing for me is that I play a feral druid, a 425 iLVL cat with a rank 1 cloak at the time. Spent about 6 hours trying LFR and went ahead and upgraded my cloak to rank 5 and increased my gear score to 430. Also was specced more for world stuff rather than LFR at the time (healing abilities, etc.) and so far at that time only made it to phase 3 once. Sadly, that time the only reason why we made it to phase 3 was because we had no tanks drop down into the portal on the second run and I popped Bear Form. Tanked it myself, did not die, and we cleared Psychus and made it just to start and end up wiping on phase 3 because we didn't know what to do. I don't think it's difficult, especially when half the time I'm usually one of the few left standing while everyone else gets gifted by N'Zoth.

They should use LFR to teach you how to raid. so like the main character for for tier, so in 8.3 Wrathion joins on on the boss fights and makes calls on where to stand and when might be best to use hero and yes they may not apply to normal or heroic but will assist with helping understand the fights better. In 8.2 Janna could have been in the fights with us in LFR yelling out, Hero's, over here and don't move, or depending on the debuff you get you hear her call out what you should be doing. just having a relevant MPC guiding you through the encounters.

I’ve seen so many tanks drop anguish on the groups bodies

I did it on release of the wing. It was fun trying to progress with people ive never met. Would do it again

I'd be very interested in a video on the topic of how would you fix LFR going into Shadowlands. What would you change it into. I don't raid, I'm not even in a guild - so naturally, if I want to do a quick raid for a quest or whatever, LFR would be the natural choice (or LFG for Normal let's say). We certainly need something accessible and completable for everyone, but it could be a really good stepping stone for player like me, who like the idea of raiding, and want to try it to see if it's for them - or they were trying to complete their quests and find out that they somewhat like what they were doing and want to try more. Making LFR the easy mode where you don't really have to do anything is kinda a solution, but then as you've said, only those who wanted to finish the quest would do it which would lead to very long wait times (which is very bad for casual players who don't have time to play). Trying to "force" raiders back into LFR with rewards would lower queue times, yes but then would those players have fun doing trivial content with random players over and over (like Island Expeditions)? No. I wonder if they made an AI driven experience, where you could try a Raid in different roles aided by AI groups (or even a scripted piece of a raid) where you could learn the mechanics, complete the kill quest and that's it. After that, you'd know the basics of the boss mechanics and then could do an LFR where it's not entirely trivial. (I don't know how much work would this be - is there a well working, low development resource requiring solution to this.)

It can be carried, though not by normal means. I had to do 147k dps on this fight in order to make it work. Me, and another cutting edge player, joined this as a fire mage+tank, and solo'd psychus twice, meaning that all the upstairs guys had to do was survive until we were back, and then we'd just burn the boss down with BL. Im DEFINITELY not saying "this fight is easy lol" but it is carryable by 2 people if some very specific checkboxes are ticked.

Just throwing in my input because I might be a bit of a minority here, or maybe not, who knows. I'm a 12/12 heroic and 3/12 mythic NYA raider. I will sometimes queue for LFR for a couple reasons. 1. The satchels have some decent gold and augment runes (which sell for more gold - I pay for my sub in gold) 2. I like to practice the base mechanics of some of the fights me and my guild blew through. 3. It's just kinda... fun? Idk There's always a few top players in there with me and battling for the top is kinda fun. 4. Raid mats. This time it was the item to get rank 3 Formless Void. Quicker I get that stuff the happier I am. 5. Transmog, I like to collect. What can I say. 6. I like raiding. Just having a big boss to kill with a bunch of people is enjoyable to me. I run M+ so much and I only raid 2 times a week. I don't see these raid bosses very often so having more chances to fight them is a bonus for me. Even if I'm raiding mythic Maut, my guild is only fighting him for... maybe 30mins? Compare that to the HOURS I've been in combat with Yazma from AD. It's just refreshing to see mechanics that I don't often see. Just thought I'd share reasons for why me, a casual mythic raider, sometimes goes into LFR. Maybe help some people understand.

I'm one of those people who used to raid a lot (I don't in BFA because of work), and for the most part, I always did LFR for one reason or another. Aside from mog, I really haven't had any reason to do it in BFA. For the time that it takes to queue like Preach said, and for me, the abysmally low drop rate of items, it just isn't worth it. I really would like to see some change in LFR and not just how it works, but it needs to redefine it's purpose. Is it really for teaching new folks how to do the bosses? I never felt that as I have tried to learn from it in the past, only to step into normal and relearn everything. I agree with what some folks have been suggesting-make LFR tutorial mode. Make it so players, both new and old, can step in and say ooooh, so THAT'S how it's done.

100% agree with everything in this video. As somebody that used to be a hardcore raider & now only does LFR, I hate what LFR has become. Its exhausting trying to lead people to do simple mechanics. Its like people dont care at all to learn. None of the loot is even worth the time it takes. Something needs to change in Shadowlands, even if they remove LFR, Id rather be forced to do normal mode.

I think the best way to fix LFR? Is bring back the "Flex Raids" (Which is basically LFR.) You just can't Q for it anymore. Let's you have more control and people can't troll it. Get the thing done, GFU out. :)

i go in for transmog but for nyzoth whats helped me beat em in lfr is just tell everyone it is "stack the fight". If everyone stacks in every mechanic it works out and normally i get in 1 to 2 pulls after that

me being healer and a tank got together and created /RW macros to give step by step instructions for mechanics of each phase. It took awhile with a quarter group leaving every wipe but we got it under 2 hrs. Our biggest issue was people not clicking their bodies after first psychus (wish we had your vid when we did it lolol)....I will not being doing nzoth LFR the rest of this xpac lol

The LFR coloration of the Ny'alotha set is what you get from invasions and visions gear so even transmog is very limited reason to run LFR this tier. This is actually the first time i've actually completed an LFR coloration of a tier set since last time i tried LFR still didn't have legacy loot so 50% of 1/20th of a chance of loot wasn't worth the effort.

Some LFR weapons are nice, so even if M0 gives similar power gear, you can only get, for example, the nice Unguent Cares from Ny'aloth. People will still run it for these interesting weapons (like Carapacio caster one too).

I was able to clear N'zoth twice on LFR and I'm almost certain this is what Mythic feels like. Stuck at 10 stacks of determination while people: -cant find their body to get out of the mind realm and die -don't recharge their sanity, ever, at all -don't bother interrupting any of the tentacles -kill the eye first instead of the basher first -refuse to follow the set groups to go back to the mind realm and just stay above -cant fathom to either stay next to N'zoth or run away to prevent being pulled into shit by the grasp also some of them just plain don't speak english so they cant coordinate with you. The groups I was in in particular actually tried using the in-game voice chat and discord AND the Fatboss guide to teach, but obviously no one is going to bother doing any of that. Another thing: the dungeon journal makes no mention to Psychus or going back to the mindrealm to deal with him multiple times, nor does it mention the grasping tendrils that pull you either away from or towards the boss. I'd tell people to read the dungeon journal first, but that ain't gonna do shit until you get to phase 3 which even with 10 stacks of determination is an extremely challenging task.

You have put it quite on point: There just is no reason to do LFR besides getting the Quest done. And most decent players will get these done on normal/heroic. Gearing an alt? by the time you get an LFR invite you can have completed 1-3 mythic dungeons. In Legion i queued sometimes for the bonus loot satchel and transmog. but thats just no worth anymore As someone pointed it out: They should just make it a solo szenario

After playing a bunch of different games, it's really weird to see a game that requires third party addons to be beaten and can be considered bad gamedesign.

I often went in there for transmog variations, especially in Legion.

i did some LFR in Previous Expansions because of Different tints of Class Sets, but since they removed them and all Armor Type Sets look like Trash compared to previous ones, i dont bother anymore didnt do any LFR in all of BFA because its pointless for me

I raided with my guild in legion quite a bit, but I think I was one of the few people who actually did LFR just because there was fun in the chaos. I rather enjoyed derping around, while still knowing the fights lol.

Archimonde LFR was the same on first week if even evening. People just ignored the Infernals even with 10 stacks of compensation stuff.