I Take My RWD Volkswagen ID.4 EV Out In The Snow For The First Time! 

Hi Branden. 3 things from a Quebec City ID.4 RWD driver with almost 50 years of experience on all sorts of cars, RWD, FWD and AWD. 1. You are absolutely right about winter tires and they are WAY better, to the point of not having them is almost dangerous. 2. Believe me, the first snow is always a challenge here because it is a bit too clean under it. With you people in the south, too bad, it is almost always the first snow! And 3: NEVER NEVER NEVER use B mode on your ID.4 on icy or snowy roads: it creates a rear wheels drag as soon as you raise your foot and you don't want any of it. Because any traction you lose in the forward direction will not be available for trajectory control. Become greedy about this precious resource we call traction. Let go for any energy recuperation and use the brakes only when necessary and always while going in straight line (you brake or you turn, never both at the same time). On a RWD ID.4, when applying brakes while in D mode, you spread the braking force on your 4 wheels instead of B-mode rear wheels only, which will make your rear end get loose. You will be also be better at dosing it correctly. Finally, try not overcorrecting on the steering, holding the wheel tight is better. My experienced grain of salt!

If you lived in a real snow-belt area, you'd know that weight over the driven wheels is the key factor! That's why 2WD pick-up trucks are nearly useless in the snow (unless you have a ton of gravel in the bed!) and FWD vehicles will invariably be able to go through far more snow than an equivalent RWD. Obviously, old Beetles an properly-equipped Porsches have a rear weight basis and the bonus of acceleration weight-transfer, but they suffer from the "push a pencil" problem where the rear-end can swing-out if the forward force vector is not the same as the direction of travel! FWD cars are essentially "pulled" through the snow, with 65%-75% of the weight over the front wheels, so other than terminal understeer in bad situations, they are infinitely easier to drive than ANY RWD car in deep snow or icy conditions.

Tires,tires,tires

Hey guys additional note - we took down the video my dad made on his terrible IONIQ 5 buying experience. The dealership had received way too many personal threats to keep that video up as it was causing more harm than good. I’ve asked my dad to film a follow up video, with more detail and the exact events that lead to such a poor experience, while also explaining the situation and the huge response we saw from you all - so we should have that to you soon. We’ve never removed a video before but when it causes people to fear for their safety, well that was the limit for us. Let us know if you think we should air that video or keep it to reviewing cars, and not the buying experience.

Video just started and as an ID4 owner myself as soon as I saw those reduculous wheels & tires on my 1st edition I went out immediately and got snow tires and new 18" wheels. Looks quite mean and I can get through the 18" of show we just got last night without a problem (Rear wheel drive as well). I was stationed in Norfolk for a number of years and 3" is crippling down there. Stay safe. Get snow tires if you are above the Mason Dixon line.

6:09. There is the proof that "all season" tiers are dangerous as hell. Can barely drive in 30mph on 1 inch of snow and the braking distance is waaay to long. That’s the reson that no one use all season tiers here in Norway or scandinavia.

Overall, for being such a heavy car on all-season tires, the driving experience wasn’t bad! I do wish there was ESC Sport or a snow mode that allowed more wheel slip, but with winter tires, I wouldn’t hesitate to have a RWD ID.4 even if I lived in a climate with more frequent snow.

This had to be one of the most stress filled videos I’ve watched on this page and about the ID 4. Mainly, on the account of the overall driving style attempted. The goal in any inclement weather like this is to maintain good traction, not to try and drive normal or in the case here(flooring it). That much steering and the amount of time you had traction control blasting on the screen was because you were giving too much power and you shouldn’t be in B mode introducing as much regenerative braking into the equation. Examples like testing the acceleration from a stop was just silliness. Feather the accelerator and you’d have far less slipping and accelerate easily. Most importantly driving based on the conditions is always most important. That Mercedes’ doing 10-15 was driving responsibly on the road while you were fighting the car the whole time to try and drive 25-30.

I got an RWD ID4 as well. Since I'm living in an area with quite some snow in winter, I equipped it with proper winter/snow tyres. Also, having some experience driving in snow with my previous (combustion engine) cars, I quickly found that driving in sports mode is an absolute must. The comfort mode gives way too little feedback from steering and drive. Same applies for using D instead of B mode, as you have more control over braking.

Try taking it out of B mode. In snow, when losing traction, I feel you want to feather the throttle, removing torque as needed to regain traction. You don't necessarily want to add resistance to the wheels through regenerative braking. That would have the impact of feathering the rear brakes. But yeah, RWD cars should always get snow tires in the winter. What you're doing in this video looks stressful AF, winter tires are a huge improvement.

In my opinion it is easier to drive a front wheel drive compared to a RWD in snow, simply because you are getting dragged by the front wheels instead of being pushed by the rear ones and having to correct with the steering. You are definitely more busy with the steering wheel in a RWD vs a FWD. As far as traction issues, I agree with you, it is all a matter of where the weight is situated..

Watching you drive is annoying, I get that it's slippery but you're all over the steering wheel as if you're trying to constantly slide (which you are). No one actually drives like this, you only correct when needed, not try to flick the car sideways every second just so that you can correct it then do it again. Watching you drive like this is painful, you never stop swinging that wheel...

Flooring the throttle and making the traction system fight for traction is simply not best way to drive in snow. VW doesn't have a way to defeat traction control, and one must learn to drive the vehicle in the best manner available. Learning to "feather the throttle" will accomplish this. Try it compared to your method of flooring it and see for yourself. Keep in mind that a sliding/spinning tire has LESS traction than one that stays on the verge of grip, which is why race drivers don't want to spin their tires when launching, or lock up the brakes when rapidly decelerating for a turn. Threshold braking is ideal, for example, as is feathering the throttle in slippery conditions, even with ABS and traction control. If you've tried to accelerate quickly in the rain, you know that spinning your tires by flooring it causes you to accelerate slower than if you can maintain traction. Likewise, prior to ABS, skidding in the rain or snow produces longer stopping distances. The same principles apply to driving in snow. Although in winter, stopping distances can be shorter without ABS due to a wedge of snow building up in front of a sliding/locked tire, but that sacrifices control and turning ability due to the sliding tire. There was no traction disable button on my 2014 Jetta, and my wife's 2014, 2017 and 2019 Beetles. So this isn't new for VW to not have a way to defeat traction control. We never had a problem with those vehicles with winter tires in ANY snow conditions here in Chicago. I won a bet by following my friend's lifted Wrangler through 10" deep snow in a field in our winter tire equipped convertible Beetle with the top down (it added to the ridiculous factor) just to prove to him that it could. Using some gentle throttle to keep traction works better than flooring it when you need to move from a dead stop, which is why VW encourages "Eco mode" in winter to reduce throttle input.

At 00:35 I knew exactly where this video was going. Factory all season tires, you might just as well have installed slicks for winter driving. Then turn traction control off, hammer the throttle and fishtail or spin donuts in the parking lot like a 16 year old showing off for the girls. No matter where you live, that is not how to drive in the snow. If you are going full throttle and the TCS is trying hard to give you some traction, then you are ignoring what the TCS is trying to tell you, ease off on the throttle! Best traction is obtained with a rolling tire, not a spinning one. Spinning the tires just creates a layer of ice under the tire and traction is greatly reduced. I've seen a lot of videos by car reviewers this winter winter that exemplify how NOT to drive in the snow. Some of the worst have been with the Maverick Hybrid FWD. Lamentations of it should be AWD abound as they full throttle their way into deep snow with the wrong tires and go nowhere. RWD, FWD and AWD all benefit from having good snow tires (Michelin X-Ice or equivalent) when conditions warrant. Ground clearance is also a huge factor with any unibody style vehicle. They act like toboggans on the deep snow and eventually the snow packed under the vehicle lifts the drive wheels off the ground. At that point you can full throttle all day if you want and go nowhere. This type of driving is more suited to Kyle's "let's go canyon carving in everything under the sun with TCS turned off". No doubt if a Tesla semi is available we will be treated to a video of that doing something it was never designed to do. The saving grace for EV's is the battery placement and low center of gravity which helps mitigate rollovers. The limitation then is sidewall stability. When you start to pop tire beads off the rim and slide to a stop in a shower of sparks, rest assured that you have pushed the vehicle too far.

I'd be worried about somebody sliding into me under these conditions.

I got some 19” wheels and snow tires, on my AWD Pro S, and it’s been pretty good so far, though when it was single digits F out, my range was pretty negatively impacted 🤷‍♂️😅

I drove a RWD BMW 3 series for 18 years in Ottawa, Ontario. I did use decent snow tires and it was ok most of the time. Deep snow wasn’t great because of the low height. Starting off in 2nd gear worked better in slippery sections and the traction control was a bit overbearing at times.

Branden, your little girl doesn't look like she's feeling well.

The id.4 drew me here, but the baby yoda made me stay

I’ve been waiting till the very end for that recommendation. Get at least all weather tyres if you want to drive on cold or snowy conditions.

Those braking distances are pretty dangerous. Don’t understand how people budget for a $40k car and then skimp on true winter tyres… just one fender bender will cover the cost of the winter tyres, or worse a slide down a gentle slope could result in serious injury for a bystander. It looks like the id4 would do amazing with a proper winter tyre

Your review was excellent. A very practical and realistic approach for the winter driving conditions in your area. Your narrative was great. Very informative, even educational for those without experience driving in the snow, slush and ice. And as you stated, a good set of fully dedicated snow tires makes a vast difference in the vehicles stability. Also, I want to caution those considering the all weather tires with the 3-peaks symbol. These types of tires are best in light snow or occasional snow conditions. If you are in an area that routinely gets snow storms, do yourself a favor and buy a set of fully dedicated snow tires. The latest design improvements combined with the new rubber compounds has greatly improved the performance of todays modern snow tires. There are several manufacture’s that produce good quality snow tires to meet your particular vehicle needs. I highly recommend them for safety purposes alone. With todays modern vehicles a minor accident/collision can easily cost $1-2k. Recovery vehicles (tow trucks) are quite costly as well. And during sudden snow storms, many of the towing companies get overwhelmed and may not even be available the same day. A set of dedicated snow tires is the best way to avoid these situations. Be cautious, be safe, and happy motoring to all.

That was a lot of counter-steering to keep it on the road! Certainly would have been better with winter tires. My concern with EVs in winter is braking distance given vehicle weights approaching 5,000 pounds and OEM tires emphasizing low rolling resistance. ABS has limitations compared to skilled threshold braking, but for the average driver, regenerative braking might be more useful as a way to slow down safely in slippery conditions than as a way to (questionably) improve economy.

For anyone interested in a set of fully dedicated snow tires, I recommend the General Tire Altimax Arctic 12. Great value and performance for the money. I removed my all season tires, and replaced them with the Arctic 12 to drive during the winter conditions here in Flagstaff Arizona. They are on my Mercedes’ E320, with the 4matic drive system. I am very pleased with the performance of these tires. I didn’t feel safe or confident driving in the snow on the all season tires. These dedicated snow tires gave me the confidence to get to my destination safely. They provide good maneuverability and a sure footed stable ride. Especially during braking. Good solid straight line braking. These tires are directional and have aggressive sipes to maintain control and stability. They do very well in the wet/slushy driving conditions. Excellent and steady acceleration from a complete stop. Even on an incline. $700 for a set of 4. Worth even penny in my opinion.

The Traction Control indicator light flashing means to slow down or get off the road. 😂 It doesn't stop you from sliding through an intersection. I thought the drive video was a bit scary with the Traction Control warning light, steering correction and summer tires. At least the roads were deserted (for good reason). Toronto closed several expressways because of the heavy snowfall this week.

Remember folks… snow tires work best in situations like this.

You need to learn how to drive in snow. This demo is stupid.

When I took mine out in snow yesterday which was icy and lots of downhill I found that if I ran in sport and left the regeneration on "B" that the slide was immediately stopped. With Regen off slid like crazy. It's been years since I've been in a car without AwD but it actually did okay. Scary but with defensive slow driving it brought me down a big hill and did it without slide. Again if I'm just D rive slides all over but B drive much better. If you live where it snows get the AWD. You will have a much better ride and your heart will not jump out of your chest.

I live in the southern region of Texas, where it has snowed 4 times since 1887, and yes I meant 1887, not 1987. It snowed in 1887, 1976, 2004, and 2017. Although it did freeze here in 2021, it did not snow in my hometown in 2021. No one this far south worries about getting snow tires on their vehicle.

That’s now snow. It’s a joke. And it’s flat…

we live over in the Raleigh area, not sure we got that much but it was pretty covered. My college kids still had to work and they drove our Pro S ID.4 and did do some sliding, but after I explained to my oldest not to pump the breaks (Mom told her too) she did fine. First snow ever for them.

Very noisy screen wipers 😁

I think baby Yoda used the force to keep you on the road.

Excellent demonstration. Not quite the challenging environment that I live in (paved roads involving 15 to 20 degree grades with intermittent Sierra Cement snow) but evident enough to make me realize that Konig snow chains on a RWD ID.4 might be enough to get me up & downhill safely where I drive mountain contour roads (aka "steep") between 3900 & 5100 feet, a few miles from the Tehachapi Pass area. Everybody here wants AWD, but the reality is that it only pays-off a few days each year and, truth be told, 2WD with Konig snow chains or similiar is always safer than AWD rolling on all-season tires without chains (i've witnessed AWD Subarus without chains hugging power poles and other AWD/4WD vehicles without chains kissing guard rails in my neighborhood). Note: budget cable-chains are dangerous to use to mountainous areas; from my real experiences changing in 2 seconds from a driver losing traction on a mountain road, to a passenger at whim of Mother Nature, if you get my drift.

I don’t understand the logic behind your driving style in the snow. Who floors it all the time when driving in slippery conditions?

What a dangerous driving style, even if you’re showcasing something

I think the take away from this video has much less to do with the car and much more to do with the tires. In many areas, weather like this would be considered a mild day. With those tires, the car is basically undriveable. You personally may have been able to get around, but remember that most drivers are unsafe even in ideal conditions. I suspect with some narrower, proper winter tires, the ID.4 would have no problem. It would be nice to see a winter traction mode to allow a little more wheel spin though. Completely eliminating wheel spin, especially from a stop, is not great in snow conditions.

I really appreciate the real-world testing. Looking at an Ionic 5 and RWD versions are shipping in June while the AWD isn't coming until November here in Saskatchewan. I'll wait. It's kind of a hoot to floor our AWD Pallisade with winter tires through a snowy corner and get scary amounts of speed with zero slip. I won't be giving that up anytime soon. The roads you see here are basically November to April in central Canada.

Grogu in the back swinging from side to side lol. Put him in a seatbelt before he uses the force on you.

Tires!

so would this most likely be fine with snow tires. I feel like these RWD EVs aren't nearly as dangerous as ICE RWD. Ive driven those in the winters and they are awful. I feel like this would be similar to driving a FWD ICE car in the winter.

Fantastic review. Thank you for filming this. I bought a Mustang Mach-E RWD and I was wondering how it would perform in snow conditions. I think your ID.4 is very analogous.

Most of the well traveled lanes can be a little some slick was my local direct observation. It was like black ice strips depending on the time of day of your drive. Well controlled ride. 👍🏼

Hi everyone, I have a Volkswagen Id4 24 and I live in Utah and it’s rwd I also do Uber wondering on the winter time would it be OK if I add the snow tires to do Uber or should I hang up the keys during winter? This is my first. Rwd car

Greetings from Minnesota! My ID4 Pro sits in a warm garage when it snows outside. I drive our four wheel drive SUV on snow days.

My first car was an '86 Mustang LX, the wimpy 4cyl they made for a bit. Rear wheel drive, absolutely no weight in the rear. Never ever bothered with winter tires, just a crazy kid driving on the icy Saskatchewan roads way too fast and drifting like mad! the one saving grace... no hills in Saskatchewan, or I'd have been screwed. It was fun, but also stupid!

Good video. I had my ID4 1st addition out in snow it did ok I was running stock tires I did not get stuck from stop and go.

I bought RWD model as well. Been a very mild winter, but I can say the combination of a non all weather tire and the fact that the rear tire is a 255 width makes it somewhat suck in the snow. I seriously may invest in Blizzaks next year.

I'm just going to say one thing. With the right tires contacting the ground and the right sensitivity in the drivetrain. The vehicle is more like a tank in terms of handling and if jeeps go electric......MOTHER NATURE BRING IT ON

Never had a problem driving a rear wheel drive car in snow when I used to live where it snowed. I drove a rear wheel drive Chevrolet Caprice Station Wagon with pretty wide all season tires on it back in 2000. Never got stuck and I lived near Philadelphia at the time so we regularly got 4 to 12 inches a snow. Used to laugh at a bunch of people stuck at the side of the road as I just cruised past. Technique can get you a LONG way. Sure snow tires and ABS and all that stuff helps.

i did not like driving my ID.4 in the snow with the all-seasons here in WA. the hills are a killer

Needs snow tires .

Not true at all that RWD ICE cars have inferior weight distribution. Most of the european or japanese sedans from 1995's have close to 50/50 just like ID4.

Glad I’m in Florida don’t need to deal with snow 😂😂

Electric 2wd cars are better than ice 2wd cars thanks to weight always being over the driven axle (electic motor) and superior traction control systems. I dont see AWD being worth it unless the added power and traction limit are needed by an enthusiast. For the every day person a 2WD EV is all they need.

Fair not really, you young Branden. May the traction be with you.

An overpriced car with lots of software problems...Nein danke!

bro why bother making this video without winter tires?

Why are the wipers so noisy?? Sounds like wipers in a Chinese car

Get some Bridgestone blizzaks on that car

You did great, I can't drive in those conditions I'll get nervous.

Sport Mode, D, All weather Tires got it

Thank you so much for the test.

no winter tire ?

Seems very dangerous to me.

Even a perfectly balanced RWD car will oversteer madly in the snow, simply because being the wheels with power they will lose traction first! In a FWD car the opposite is true, the front wheels will lose traction first thus the car will plow ahead (understeer) both situations will suck and you will be stuck either way. Again, you have discovered that snow tires are essential if you live where you have significant snow. All season tires suck in all seasons! If you want a tire with good year round performance, buy "all weather" tires like the Michelin Crossclimate a tire that is more than capable in all conditions. Again, "all season" tires: BAD, "all weather" tires: GOOD!

Good overview of the ID.4! I've had similar experiences so far in my RWD Model Y. The regen does introduce some squirrelly braking, which you mentioned (and is my biggest learning curve on this car). It's also extremely difficult to review cars in snow, since all snow is different. Is it slushy? Icy? Powdery? How are your tires? The only way to *truly* understand a car on snow is to get behind the wheel!

windscreen wiper is very noisy.

lol scary

Incorrect on rwd and fwd , rwd is inherently unstable as non straight results in a positive feedback of overtake of the back. You did not do physics at school where you get test this. The idea of acceleration rocking weight back is irrevelent in snow where acceration is so slow.

When you try to accelerate faster than it can because of wheel spin the car is cutting power. In an ice you could hear the engine sound. I have to search to find if regen is modulated in an antilock manner.

how about true winter tyres for start? and did you hear about esc off when doing uphill in the snow (at least what works with fwd)?

I drove home from walmart on the highway in a ford pinto back in the late 80s. Those were horrendous in the snow. The worst vehicle ever (rear wheel drive) and has a tendency to blow up if hit from the rear. we were poor.

Definitely getting the AWD version if I decide to go with the ID4. Great ad for the AWD version.

Seems a little bit stress and calculation. With 12 cm snow and ice I will be an other story put some good winter tyres and snowsocks.

A good set of snow tires would solve most issues. I drive a BMW i3 (also rear wheel drive) with snow tires and I've no issue in MN getting around in snow and ice.

Maybe it's the placement of the camera but your wipers are quite loud on video

I have a RWD but the matter in snow is alsothe tyres, chains you use..

How long have you been with Out of Spec Reviews?

Why did VW stagger the tire size? For the regular car owner being able to rotate the tires is a huge advantage. I have a RWD Tesla Model 3. All season tires stink but it can be done. Just know your limits. Give snow tires a try. It's a world of difference.

Mitigated with a battery electric vehicle? Um, no. Lots of RWD BMWs are 50/50 balanced and still suck n snow.

Looks like you have terrible winter tires on the ID4. I have Nokian Hakkapelitta studless on my ID.4 and it's really good on snowy roads. Very good car for winter driving in Trondheim Norway.

I didn't hear you mention how much tread life you have on the tires. Did you measure tread depth or at least tell us how many miles are on them and if they are easy or hard acceleration and turning miles?

I like the fact you have a Lectric XP as well. One of the main issues I have is they did not put a hitch on my pro S and although I can fold my XP, I would rather put it on a bike rack

Someone said drive in eco mode for the redused torque. I have a First Edition in Chicago and I know how to drive in snow. You have to know how to use the throttle. (e throttle now)

I feel safe in Kona electric in snow . Nice I'd 4

Pull the ABS fuse - then you can drift it😃 At least if it works the same as on the ID.3.......

Thx Brandon, useful video

Yeah in my opinion if you live in a state with 2 more inches of snow everyday get the awd the rwd is meant for Florida California and Arizona places with no snow or at the very least get snow tires

Wow those wipers are noisy do they need replacement. If could turn off traction control could really have fun.

why buy a rwd car when you live in snow country? makes no sense.

You are pretty brave!

Watching southerners deal with the snow is always a treat...... ;)

Fwd is still better than rwd as it is easier to pull than push. But given the more even weight distribution of evs and lower center of gravity I'm betting the benefit of fwd vs rwd isn't as much as with ice vehicles with the motor sitting above the front transaxles

This is one of the scariest videos I've ever watched.

Anyone told you that you look like Dustin Milligan?

Get better tires, you’re going to fast for conditions. And it’s ridiculous it’s clear you are going to cause an accident.

What’s the bike?

Bro… bad winter driving skills

Forgot the lack of experience factor! 😳