Just a quick note: I am not a paid DM, I am not affiliated with StartPlaying.games or any pay to play platform or DM. I just had a good time, and wanted to share the experience. 🤓 If you would like to give StartPlaying a shot and want to give a little back, just use my referral link and we both win! startplaying.games/referral/clqcv0ylv0002m0ohs68pfn68
Absolutely, if it helps, you guys can’t see the downvotes but I can, 340 upvotes and like 15 downvotes. Don’t let the very vocal minority influence your perspective, the community is as far as I can tell not against it
One thing that doesn't get talked about a lot is the negative reactions Pro GM's get. Some people have VERY strong opinions on the matter of paid games, and unfortunately some of them feel it's their job to let you know they disapprove of how you fill your gas tank. But most people in the community just think it's cool that I can do gaming as a side gig.@@progressiveDND
Exactly my man, which is why I showed you the downvotes, as much as they want everyone to believe like them it’s not true, it’s a small sample size but basically 95% felt compelled to upvote an honest open and positive view of pay to play, and 5 % were against it enough to downvote. They naysayers will always be the loudest, creating a channel you learn real quick if that’s the voices you listen to you just have to give up :) I mean don’t do that, do you and do so unapologetically. I loved the experience and actually signed up for the 10th to play a game with dm frank because it was a great experience.
I play weekly with the DM (Frank) that was showcased in this video. He is an outstanding DM. He always preps for the games and maximize all the functions in roll20. Definitely recommend him.
I started running games there about a year and a half ago or so, and I have now run 173 paid games charging $20 per person. This is what I have found...I have completed 5 campaigns from start to finish and currently 65% through my 6th campaign and 10-15% of my 7th campaign. Previous to being on SPG I only ran tables at Conventions and VDDW for D&D. I never finished a campaign when it was free as a 25-30 session campaign would always derail for a plethora of reasons around Session 10-15. I use the money I generate to PATREON people and pay for my "in-house" artist who is saving money for a down payment for a house in Argentina. I currently support 10 creators monthly and I feel really good about spreading the wealth. I use the experiences I have at the table to hone my craft. I learn something with each and every session. I hope to one day have special event weekends bringing people to Colombia (where I currently live) to mix culture with great fun at the table. Great insight and thanks for supporting the GMs/DMs in this way.
"the entire group was high energy and showed up on time". That's absolutely worth $5 lol Semi related, there's a feller I know that somewhat recently went full time as a paid GM. It's crazy to me, and I'm not sure you could pay me enough to play with and manage randos, but hey, more power to him.
I was honestly floored with how everyone just fell right in, it was way above expectations, this cat named bune, he endeared himself to the whole table with his insanely happy game play. I know randoms is a gamble but my experience left me looking forward to doing another and a little sad I won’t likely see these guys again.
@@progressiveDND Is there no way to add "friends" or anything on that site? I've never used it. Would be kind of sad to have great players and never see them again.
Sure, yeah I could have done that, but I guess I it feels counter to the "service" that should be StartPlaying. I feel like "friending" someone in startplaying would be a better experience than making people do the work legwork themselves in discord, but yes, I could have reached out in discord and added them. Ideally I would have liked to see a friend status in startplaying, then startplaying could actually send notificatons "Bob just signed up to play ..." would be good for their revenue too :D
My current Friday game is on spg and it has been an amazing experience so far, we completed an 18 month long campaign about two months ago. Before that I played a series of one shots loosely in the same world but all amazingly fun and getting to play with all sorts of people opened my eyes to the potential of just playing with strangers. I am fully in support of pay to play DND and any trrpg(which spg offers) to be able to control when and where you play whatever game it is. Great video, have a sub ❤.
Great review of SPG. As a full time SPG DM, it’s great to hear you had a good experience! The service has literally been life changing for me, and your thought process felt very much like my own when I first encountered the platform. Nice work! Thank you!
@@DoomVampire I actually have a video of my own on the topic. lol. Can't share here, I don't think. My 2cp at 1am (now) would be: Start small and work your way up. Campaigns are better for your business than one-shots. Treat it as a business and act professionally and you'll be treated in kind. It doesn't hurt to do some market analysis to see what games are popular, and there is good help when you're new on the SPG discord server. And last but VERY MUCH not least. HAVE FUN.
The advice to run an npc from an upcoming game you're running in a one shot to get a feel for the character is FANTASTIC advice I never would have thought of. Thank you.
Thanks for your opinion. I'm a writer who is currently GMing at conventions. I've really loved talking up new games and networking with people over the past year The feedback I'm getting from my players seems to indicate that I should actually be writing for published games. It's starting to feel weird to run free games because of all the time and effort I'm putting into my prep work, so maybe Start Playing and websites like the DMG would make a logical next step for me? We shall see.
For my family game I have been building the campaign as we go along, and was considering releasing it on dmsguild, not charging for it, but just releasing it for the fun of it. I think the experience of building it out into official format be interesting.
You should give it a go, it might take a while to get off the ground as a GM, but I have run some of the most satisfying campaigns I have ever run on this platform. Having financially committed players really makes a difference. They REALLY want a great game.
@@ElwoodShortSee I'm of the opposite camp that paying for the session devalues it to me. That rather than organic storytelling or role play that the dm feels obligated to make grand set piece moments and play a little too close to a certain set of campaigns with some famous voice actors that it feels more like it's trying to be that rather than just be what it is naturally. That I now have a much more critical eye for whether I'm "getting my money's worth " rather than just enjoying the game. I much rather buying the snacks or getting the dm a new source book to run or make my Dm's life easier, or if I dm buying the module my players want to run.
@@afrosamurai3847 Well, I rarely use modules, and we have a very relaxed set up, where everyone gets to put forward ideas. Yeah, I get where you are coming from, but it’s not a given that GM’s operate that way. I certainly don’t. Grand moments, happen when they happen, trying make them a ‘weekly event’ is going to get stale fast.
It honestly was, I learned a lot about who Mira is almost by accident, she confronted with a farmer who’s wife went missing she didn’t pity, she accused the farmer of being a bad husband, she’s spunky and a little judgmental, when I run her in my real games I can do it just with a few lines of notes about what her plot points are. Great fun!
I’m an old school who hadn’t played since 3.5. I have a daughter who DM’s at conventions but I don’t get to play with her often because she lives too far away. So I saw an ad for start playing and was so excited. I’m in a couple campaigns on there and I also found another player who is DMing a game not on there so now I have three campaigns with some great DM’s and at 10~15 dollars for the two it’s well worth it!
100% with you on that, it's the DND experience as intended. Just hard to do most the time. I have a massive custom TV table that I haven't used in a long time. Maybe one day...
Very nice video. Informative and not just a click bait title as I often see with channels related to D&D that pop up for me for some reason. As a DM who has been considering doing an occasional one shot on startplaying it is good to see what people honestly think about pricing, how it works out, the group dynamic of a rando group, and how it all went. Big thumbs up for the video.
Great video, Ive been considering DMing professionally and would try a few pay to play games first. Its good to hear your take on it, especially the fact that other players also paid and are more likely to be engaged. Thanks for sharing!
I was a player in a year long, weekly campaign on the site. Level 3 all the way to 9. We played curse of Strahd and unless more than 3 people canceled we did play every. single. week. It was $10 per player and well worth it to see it all the way to the end. As one of the rare long term players from the site I can’t recommend it enough. Feel free to ask me anything about my experience, I’ll try to answer to the best of my knowledge.
Having to pay a small amount means that now players have skin in the game. It will definitely make them more motivated to show up and less likely to flake out.
i am very interested and will probably try it out. paying to play does seem to bring out the people who want to have a good experience - just look at things like casual sports leagues. me and my friends put down money and time to enjoy ourselves so we're more engaged in the game. this is a great video!
I found Start playing awhile back. I haven't gotten to DM in forever. But I am not sure about setting up a digital game right now. So, I have been considering jumping in as a player. I appreciate hearing about your experience. I have some time away from work soon. So Maybe I'll jump into a game in the next couple of weeks. Cheers!
As DM for startplaying I can say there is a lot of variety in different players. However, if someone pays to be there, they're more likely to be at every session. I've ran quite a few free games where people sign up and just ghost out or play one or two sessions and just don't come back.
Another cool thing about SPG is the access to other types of TTRPGs. Want to try a new game? You can find a huge variety of one shots or campaigns, with folks who are eager to teach people a new game.
This is a great video! I haven't rp'd in over a decade, so I didn't even know about startplaying or any similar sites. I might just have to give it a look! I also like the whole perspective thing as far as DM's playing in someone else's campaigns as a nobody or newer character. The whole point is to have fun, and you seem to have done so! Bravo, sir!
I wasn't a fan of the idea of pay-to-play D&D, but as a forever DM, but maybe it would let me throw dice as a player once in a while. As for price, how much am I willing to pay for an evening of entertainment? A $5 session is a bargain - assuming $20 for 3-4 hours would put it on par with a movie ticket. After hearing your experience, it makes me more inclined to give it go.
I highly recommend it! I run a few sessions a week on SPG and half the players in my weekly campaigns are "forever DMs" for their groups. It's also fun to chat with them outside of the game and share tips and books and such. I do charge $20 a player per session, which like you said is comparable to a movie. The best part is that every one shows up for the session and we don't have to deal with the schedule monster! And it's a great place to play non-5e games. Want to try a new TTRPG? You can probably find someone willing to run it on SPG.
I’d pay to play in a West Marches style game where you can pop in or out for a session when you want to. In fact, I’m going to look it up! Thanks for making the video
Good video. If I had a group of friends that I met regularly with to play DnD then yeah I wouldn't play online. But as an adult with a job and kids (so limited free time) that is a lot easier said then done. Online just works better for my situation. I'm glad you mentioned the cost. I am not in the US so a US$20 dollar game is more like $35+. Paying that a week adds up. But I can find games that match my price point.
stick around, in the coming couple of weeks once we have had time to really feel it out, we are doing a video on play by post, there's lots available on startplaying and so far the experience has been outstanding. DND whenever you have time, no late nights, no scheduling, just asynchronous :) Thanks for commenting!
I will start my first pay-to-play campaign in a little over a week, and honestly, I’m nervous about it. What I’m seeing so far is all good signs (free session 0, GM has been excessively good about communication, GM seems very supportive and even excited about my character concept, both other players currently signed up are returned customers of the GM, both other players have been kind and involved in the Discord, we all seem to want to play the same kind of game, etc.). But part of me can’t get over the idea of playing with strangers. Thanks for sharing your experience! On the price point issue, I see the bigger point not as “cost of campaign”, but “cost per month”. The campaign I joined is $20 a session, but only meets biweekly. To me, 40$ a month for 2 sessions is much easier to justify than 80$ a month for 4 sessions.
I think you are going to be pleasantly surprised, everyone I have played with (two different games on startplaying so far) were amazing people who came to have a great time. I agree it's awkward at first, but just be open, and it will be natural and comfortable in no time. Report back if you can, love to hear how it went.
@@progressiveDND just finished session 0. It was fantastic! GM seems like just a very competent guy that wants to play, and was already talking about potentially continuing past the module (most of the negative reviews I’ve seen were about GMs that just try to shuffle as many players as possible through modules as cheaply as possible). He even adjusted our starting position based on some of the characters’ backgrounds. All the other players were also very welcoming and collaborative. Honestly, now my only concern is that I might not be a very good player (I have rather limited playing experience as I am generally GMing for my group) and might drag down the experience, but I know that’s probably just me being too harsh with myself. I’m looking forward to getting into the actual game in a couple of weeks!
Old school gamer here i left the hobby for a while and i am back i had some friends i started to play with and i realized i wanted to play again but the game fell on its ass so i tried start playing i chose one d&d and one pathfinder game and really like my dms and the players i play with its not quite the same as old friends but i will take it i play two games that are under 10 each and thats worth the money
As a former DM on SPG, where I hosted 6-10 games every week, the biggest issue is that SPG will affect the status of a GM's profile if they ever get reported by a player, and there is no way for a DM to contest it. I had the SPG staff tell me that, even though I recorded my session with the permission of the group, and that nothing they reported took place and I had proof of it, that they will derank my profile and it will be harder for me to find players. It's hard to recommend them after spending 2.5 years with them.
That’s a hard one to weigh in on, I hope they see this comment. A lot of these service aggregation companies lean heavily to the customer not the provider and it’s often unfair. I.e. sellers on eBay or Amazon basically can rarely win in a dispute. When they get big enough not to be able to examine every case it’s an issue and then there’s the politics of it
I play in 2-3 campaigns a week on SPG for a few years. I simply cannot find free campaigns that are long term. The average group stays together about 4-6 months. Online is my only option. Hopefully it gets better. Maybe AI tools will help assist in keeping groups together longer.
It’s like paying to go to a convention where the highlight of the convention is the other people who also paid to go to the convention, or is that just me?
From what I saw there are tons of newbie friendly games on there. A personal recommendation would be to find someone running lost mine of phandelver as that’s an amazing starter adventure
I’m going to use start playing. Tried a few pay games searching roll20 and had bad experiences. Mostly the glaring obviousness of a DM taking money from people and that DM barely prepared a thing. Or really bad rulings and adversarial dynamics.
That's interesting. The recommended starting rate for GM's is typically listed at $20, or at least it was last year, I'm sure it's been trending down as more GM's get on SPG and try running games with the advertising push they've had.
I did, and actually played again since. Now sadly im stuck in the middle of a house move so my desk is in my garage while we figure it out, but as soon as I can I hope to get into some more games.
20 session long form? Ok, try 76 sessions. Yes, that is a big financial commitment for a pro game, but a pro GM is likely to see that through. Ok, in fairness, the 76 session was call of Cthulhu’s ‘Masks of Nyarlathotep’ which is a notoriously long campaign. But, running it was one of the most satisfying things I have ever done as a GM. [oh I don’t charge $35 mind you]. Ihave found paying players are highly motivated, and value their game time. They tend to really try to attend every week as much as possible, even with campaigns lasting over a year. Ok my Runequest game has now hit 77 sessions, and shows no signs of stopping anytime soon.
To be honest, the "excited players" reason is probably the main one I would be interested in, if I were ever to join a p2p campaign. Having invested players can turn even the most mundane campaign into a special one.
That's the problem as a DM, if you're looking at this as a way to make money, you'd have to charge more than most people would be willing to play. For $5-10, you come away from a session with $20-50... your players have bought you dinner...
@@progressiveDND Its not a hobby at that point. I online sim raced, started a sim racing company selling sim racing gear. Made over a million a year for 6 years but never again raced myself. Was it worthwhiile? I lost a hobby, but i made a living out of it. I do miss the racing, but its tough when your working non stop providing the equipment with no time to race yourself.
I heavily recommend playing on a discord west marches, like The New Dawn or the forged concordance. Really awesome to play with all kinds of players and DMs, for free and with the same character (or you make a new character).
While $5 is a great price point and I am very glad you got your money’s worth, unless you only use free resources (the SRD, free DND Beyond account tier, and the few freebies WOTC throws few and far between), the hobby (more like addiction to some of us) is expensive. Of course, if your financials allow it, indulge.
@@colbyboucher6391 I didn’t imply that in my comment, that’s your assumption, interpretation and that’s exclusively on you. I’ve played and enjoyed other TTRPG’s besides D&D and it’s still a costly habit to maintain. That’s just not exclusive to D&D. Been playing it since the Basuc, Exoert, and Advanced sets. Shadowrun, Traveller, Roll20, TORG, The World Of Darkness games, the Palladium games, etc. They cost a pretty penny if you want to get all the relevant pieces to run them properly. PDF’s are nice but I prefer physical copies when I can. Thankfully recently you can get to play many games, including D&D with some Quickstarter rules or SRD’s for free. So you get your first proverbial fix for free and if you want to further your investment in it, there you go. Have a great day!
In my experience with Startplaying, my biggest issue comes down to GM professionalism. GM comes in late (1 to 5 minutes but still late), forgets where the group is at spending 10 minutes remembering where we were at or what we were doing, or cancel at the last minute. Saying the game will be 3-4 hours and stopping at the 3 hour mark constantly with a 15 minute break. Most/part of this, I believe, is because once the GM's on startplaying get a bit of money, they think "wow, I can run another game" (that is an opinion). Then they start having 3-7 (or more) different games with different players. I am currently in 1 game from Startplaying and it is fun enough to continue to pay for it. Fortunately as a GM (I run 1 game a week), I enjoy GM'ing too much, I don't want to get paid for it. Personally, I think if I got paid to GM, I would treat it as a job instead of a fun hobby.
yeah I can see spreading themselves too thin would be a serious risk.. and temptation. I agree on enjoying DM'ing. I don't think I would do it for money and if I did it would be absurdly low priced just to keep the atmosphere light and casual. I should try one of these 40 dollar games just to see what they are bringing that their price is so high. Thanks for watching!
@progressiveDND This is the crux of it; the higher priced gms have priced themselves that way so they don't have to spread themselves so thin. A higher priced gm is likely to be more prepared and take your game more seriously because they see this as a business. They've done the analysis on how many games they can run and what they need to price them at in order to give you the experience that's worth the money, and still be able to live the life they want to, with time for their families etc. I just started running games on SPG. I currently run 3, and I deliberately priced myself low since I was just starting. This was a mistake. I'm running in the red just after expenses, not including the time I spend. The next game I take on will definitely be priced higher, and I'll need to raise the rate on most of my other games probably within the next six months. Otherwise I'd have to run so many games i wouldn't be able to care for each of them effectively.
Its worth noting that you talk a lot about the $5 price point, but that is literally the minimum a DM on the site can charge for a session, and typically only new DMs like Frank with very few games played offer games at that price while trying yo build up their profile. The average game on the site is in the 15-20 range per session.
uhh, i mean Yeah I understand there's probably much less games at that price point, but there's plenty of them. at a glance it looks like 40+ just in the next seven days.
@@progressiveDNDsure, i was only commenting that this is not the average experience on the website, most games that cheap are from DMs like the one in the video who are trying to establish themselves. This was definitely a bargain!
@@Dont-Say-Dave oh ok yeah I understand. I think I’m going to bounce around the cheapies for a while just for the fun of seeing lots of other DMs in action. One day maybe I’ll try a full campaign though
It’s interesting really, the value of a service is always going to be for the consumer to decide, there’s probably tons of people who would pay 20, or even 40 for that perfect game. My point is that I would be comfortable committing to a long term game at 15 a session because for me I see that price tag as a whole. Some may see 40 dollars a session as a few coppers at the tavern and other see it as gold. We all stand somewhere on the spectrum and that’s just fine, for sure I’m not implying someone else should be like me, they will place the value of the service where it’s suits them. There’s room for everyone at the table
@progressiveDND that's fine and all. And 15 is probably the lowest I personally would ever take if I did paid gming. If it's a 5 person party that's $75 for 4.5ish hours of gaming and prep. Not accounting for people calling out its 16ish an hour. As a proponent of people earning enough to live well no matter the job, I just couldn't. Maybe for a 6 person game but still tight.
Totally agree, all companies should pay a livable wage, thing is when a person decides to use startplaying platform to be a paid DM, they are the company, and subject whims of the market. That market is saturated with avid passionate DMs who would do it for free if able. At 75 a game night, assuming you somehow were able to fill every seat every single night, you are looking at just a bit over 2000, factor in taxes and startplaying's cut, which will for sure be a thing when going that hard at it, where I am at that wouldn't even keep a roof over our heads and the lights on. I don't believe startplaying by itself could be a viable income source, and I think 99% would end up hating DM'ing within months at that pace. It's possible it could be part of strategy of growth around publishing, streaming, youtube, etc where it was part of your promotion and services. If I ever decide to play around with it as a paid DM, I think I would just stick with a low price point, and one a couple types of one shots just to have fun myself. I think I'll let my coding keep the lights on though :)
@progressiveDND fair about the market. Ive been thinking about doing paid gming and took a poll on in a large dnd group to see what people are willing to pay between 0,15,18,20,25 and most choose 20 which surprised me. At 20 a game with 6 players each that's actually a decent wage assuming you do 10 games a week. I can def see people hating being gms from this. It's for sure not for everyone.
yeah, I can't even imagine, I DM two games now that are biweekly, and I feel the pressure. Granted I also have a full time job, a YT channel, and VTT in development. 10 a week I would leave the hobby, it wouldn't be fun anymore, just endless work.
I personally would never shame you about the services a DM provides. I DM in person with people and I don't charge them a dime. I like the work. I like being creative. I simply will not pay to play and I don't charge money for me to run.
Yes the "professional" DM should require "experienced" players as well. So for my game I would need to post: 1 Combat, 2 Social Encounters, 1 Magical event or thing, and maybe a puzzle or trap. Combat player wants: Combat, Magical things, Combat, Social event, Combat, and maybe trap involving combat in some way. Actor type wants: Social Encounter, puzzle, Social encounter, Combat, and maybe something magical. You get the idea of how to filter these player profiles.
I have no interest in paying to play D&D, but I can definitely see the value in it and would never judge someone for charging to run a game or anyone who payed to play.
Thankfully I have some wonderful friends whom I can play Roll20 with so I do not need to pay for a game, however, I can see this as a fantastic thing for many of us who can not find a group to play with the only problem with a pay to play site as in all things in life is it will get flooded with wanna be DMs and people just after the quick buck and over time it will push people away as a money grab and the real DMs who are trying to make a living doing this will get kicked in the teeth I hope I am wrong but we all know how greedy us stupid humans can get.
At the risk of courting a slippery slope fallacy, I think the problem with these is that it quickly goes from 'skin in the game' with early adopters, to something more sinister as it gains in popularity. One need only look at the evolution of monetization in the video games industry through the arcade scene in the 80s and 90s to the casino-inspired practices of modern 'free-to-play' games. Once you normalize the concept of paying for something that used to be free, it's very hard to go back.
As a person who has tried getting into free games on roll20.... no, joining a game is not that same sort of experience as the one he had. Typically you will spend days applying to tens of different games only to get approved on one or two of them, simply because there is such a countless horde of people who want to join free games. I've never played in a p2p game before, but hearing how quick and easy getting into this game was for him, it sounds tempting.
Well I am in p2p and I find it fun until the 30 dollar point. I found that I could just play Baldur's gate . The DM was lackluster and I hard that I paid for that.
haha, yeah :) I like BG3, playing it a little here and there myself but I see a lot of comparisons and some outlandish ideas of it as D&D's future floating around RU-vid, and yeah, that's obscene 🙃
It is a one person game without a human DM. It is a great computer game that I have spent too much time on, but I'll take live play with a group over it any day.
