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Something that few people are talking about is the impact of workflow with the Push 3 Standalone. I've got most of the competing products... MPC X, Maschine MK3, Akai Force, SP404MK2, many of the Elektron boxes. Each one has a unique workflow that inspires creativity in a different way. What I've found so far using the Push 3 SA is that I am exploring and using the native FX and instruments and Max devices in a way that I never considered with the Push 2 or directly in the software. There I mostly focused on 3rd party plugins. Even though I've used Ableton for many years, I am using and exploring it in new ways and having a blast doing it.
Great points! It seems that the Push 3 SA has the right kind of limitations to breed amazing creativity. I feel as though that this sort of magic within it’s workflow would be what attracts me to most to it as well. Plus it has some pretty badass functionality with ADAT + USB
Side Question: Since you have all the boxes I have been thinking about, which one is your favorite? Especially in the context of a beginner who wants something with an intuitive workflow. I actually picked up the sp404mk2 a few months ago coz I thought it would be the ideal portable device to learn on. But find the workflow pretty confusing and have been struggling to actually get stuff made with it. Lots of fun for messing around with effects/performance though.
@@wayofki I like them all for different reasons. Nothing allows you to power through the epic amount of Native Instrument presets and expansions like the Maschine. It does a great job of chopping samles too. However if chopping samples is your thing I think that crown goes to the MPC line. If I want to go crate digging, my MPC X is where I set up shop. The elektron workflow is the most challenging. However if sound design and and creative sequencing is your thing, then it's arguably the best. Elektron deserves its cult following. If you could "unmodular" modular synthesis and stick it in a box, you'd have elektron. Be prepared for some menu diving. I'm fairly new with the SP404MK2. it has it's own unique workflow that requires time and memory to make the most of it. It has that 4 track tape feel where you can easily overwrite things that you can't undo. Also, you have to like a sound and flow that somewhat lacks precision. Loose quantization. Works great for boombap. I don't find myself drawn to it like my other devices, however I do use it with my other boxes as an fx processor for which is is fantastic for. A box with a fairly easy workflow that not too many people seem to have or focus on is the Pioneer SP-16. I like it for ideas and performance. If I had to only keep one that did a bit of everything where I could create and perform... Hmm. The Akai Force is high on the list. It just does so much. I'm still sorting out where the Push 3 fits into all of this for me. The most obvious spot, which I mentioned in my original comment, is it is allowing me to engage another side of Live that I did not focus on with the software and the Push 2, and that is Live's own FX, Instruments, and MAX for live devices.
I love this. Thanks for making me laugh. I took the push 3 standalone model on vacation this past 2 weeks - three continents, multiple countries… I was able to fiddle with beats in the plane, at the pool near the alps, and in between. It was nice having “just one box” and a pair of headphones. Yes it is limited compared to connecting the laptop, but I had a blast with it.
Thanks for your thoughtful commentary. I could not see the value of Push 3 when it first came out. Now that I am performing live sets again I do, and recently purchased it on sale. Hooked up to my Audient 8 channel ADAT it gives me all the channels I need for most events. Exquisite.
Side note. While playing in note view, you can hold the session button, trigger a clip, and release the session button for it to go back to note view. Also slightly hold any track to arm the track.
I had very similar thoughts to you when I heard about the Push 3. It seems like a really good improvement to the Push 2, and while expensive, the prices is not excessive for what you get. Comparing as an mpe instrument to the linnstrument the price is also competitive. But I already have a Push 2, Lightpad block, USB powerbank, audio interface, and laptop that will do pretty much the same thing. So I don't plan on upgrading but am glad to see Ableton making a solid release. Maybe I will pick one up second hand in a few years when they are a lot cheaper.
The thing is, most of the things your getting to "replicate" the Push 3 (besides the Roli) are things you will probably also need if you do have the Push 3.
you forgot the APC40MK2, and also, you can't get Push 2 for $700, probably used for $400 or less, the market will be full of them soon. If anything you showed why the Push 3 makes sense for $2000. great video, Thanks!
It does not make sense. Let’s stop thinking like lazy people. Every other musician apart from a singer has to lug around gear and set it up. If you are smart you’d put all the extra parts in a rack or a backpack and would only need to pull out the Push 2 and Laptop and you’re ready to rock and roll. Save your money. The crap built in computer and the limited Ableton makes this standalone product useless in my view.
@@kehindea I agree that the standalone Push cannot replace the regular ableton DAW, but for a live show, "just pull out the push 2 and laptop (and rack) and connect it all, and make sure it's powered, and now do all of that in a festival. quick setup and break down cannot be under rated for a performing musician. it's a matter of time until stand-alone boxes will be capable enough we won't have to deal with computers (tbh, if I were the head of ableton, i'd made Push 3 controller and iPad pro ableton version, best of both worlds, with better process power, portability and a screen!)
Some thoughts (as someone who has pre-ordered Push3 SA): The way I think about it value-wise is that you are essentially getting a multi-timbral MPE instrument with virtually every form of synthesis, sampling, groove-box functionality and integration as a Live 11 controller. For comparison the Osmose is $1800 and has one timbral layer and 24 voices. Both are a lot of money and investment, no doubt. But I don’t think the Push 3 is unreasonable for what you get. If you look at what synths in the past cost historically you may cringe when you see the price for a DX7 or Wavestation when they originally came out, especially adjusting for inflation. Modern manufacturing and tech has driven prices down overall, the problem is that worker wages and salaries have largely stagnated buuuuut thats a separate discussion….. My only complaint would be that they should have included Live Standard. The sales they may have gotten for including it would have compensated for any lost on the additional licensing and frustration of prospective buyers. I would also like to recognize that it isn’t close to perfect in it’s current state and it’s likely a few firmware updates away from being gig-ready. Regardless I am excited for mine and excited to use your Push 3 tutorials for learning some music-theory! They are excellent guides :)
Even though the Push 3 costs a lot of imaginary fiat dollarz, I'm really excited it exists and I feel like it's worth it because of the immaculately efficient workflow for creating music. But I think it should come with Suite software at $2,000. Just started watching your videos man. Great stuff.
“Omg so expensive”. Comes from the crowd with 5 elektron grooveboxes and 20 synths. It literally is a daw in a box. That seamlessly gets everything you’ve done on it ready in the daw. No cables, no multitrack recording, no problem. Enjoy your 1 LFO grooveboxes that barely break 4 bars of repeats.
Pre ordered the stand alone, but am becoming more interested in the controller version. My biggest pain point with push 2 is plugging it in to get that extra brightness. Even using myvolts rip cord it bugs me.
You didn’t add the cost of the Akai controller lol. But you can go with the Scarlett Solo and definitely can get a cheaper laptop, put them all in a flight case and you’ll get pretty close. Think about it a DJ would carry their decks, keyboardists will carry a big keyboard plus modules and a guitarist will carry a guitar and amp. The computer used by the Push is so rubbish and you can get it for under $500. All in all separate is better especially if you already have Push 2. Thanks for the good video.
This last Christmas I randomly checked OfferUp for a Push 2 wanting to get back into making beats in Live. Saw a listing that was a day old for a Push 2 at a Pawn Shop that’s wasnt too far from me. It was listed at $199. The official listing and receipt says ableton dj mixer. I’m certain they price matched it with the Push 1 before listing it. I’m seeing these things still go for $600. Absolute robbery, the unit is flawless not even a “dust scratch” on the screen. Only thing was the wall adapter was cracked so I had to order a new one for $25 from ableton and since their warehouse is in TX it came in like 1 day.
Love the way you did this video. The Push 3 to me looks geared towards travelers, performers, on the go content creators, etc. I would love a Push 3 for the MPE support as I already have a Push 2. Most people already have laptops or desktops, so if they are in the studio they already have a more powerful machine. I think Ableton did it right though by releasing two versions that are upgradable. I think the price is right. This is geared for 'PRO's" I think, or people serious about performing speaking for the all in one version.
NO. I will not get stuck with a $2K PUSH 3 hardware for the next 10 years. There is more flexibility, customization and choices by adding gear to P1 & P2. The main question is; how valuable is it to go standalone while at the same time giving up certain features? I personally can live w/o MPE.
You can use the APC with Push 3 in Standalone mode. I got my Standalone Push 3 a few days ago and actually thought about returning it, but ultimately decided to keep it because I am curious about what Ableton is going to do with it in the future.
I've got the standalone version on preorder. There's a lot of knobs and sliders to adjust in Live and I'm a big fan of hardware buttons, knobs and sliders.
800 for a brand new iPad. 30 bucks for DRambo. 13 for koala sampler. 200-500 for an mpe controller and plenty of extra cash for plugins for iOS. The technology is beyond there for sound design and beat making
Drambo is indeed a modern marvel of software design. I’ve spent thousands on hardware grooveboxes, from Elektron, Maschine, to Push 2 and Deluge, but Drambo is the most intuitive and fun I’ve had out of any. I just use the built in samplers for one-shot sequencing, but I’ve found Loopy Pro to be an ideal complement to it for more advanced sampling. Add a good multi FX like Mixbox, Power synth (Synthmaster 2/Butter/Tera Pro) and maybe a drum synth (Drum Computer/Fac Drums) and the sky is the limit. Tera is my fav, but it’s such a CPU hog, so Loopy Pro serves well as a track “Freeze”
I think that the purpouse of the video fails under the 2 minutes. A laptop plus soundcard plus push 2 and so on, will make the price of everything much higher than the price of a push3
I'll be pushing the push 3 out of my way so I can get to my Akai MPC X SE it's not that there's anything wrong with the push 3, it's just that Ableton light or regular is mostly geared towards live performance, and I'm not into that.
Ok, so maybe a couple of things you may need to take into account in the equation on the components alone, on top of the fact that a Roliblocks only has a handful of pads: Interface wise, the cheapest portable interfaces with Adat in/out are going to be the likes of a Motu Ultralite Mk5 (650e) or Mk3 (550e), or RME Babyface Pro FS (1000e - Well I know those 2 have better converters and offer a lot more out of the box, but it has to be said). Otherwise, all portable audio interfaces with Adat, only have ADAT in, so that forces you to get a Rackmount Audio interface (be it a used Motu 828, or a new one like a Focusrite Scarlett 18i20 which costs 550USD). By the way, at the moment on all Focusrite interfaces (or their controllers like the excellent Launchpad Pro Mk3) you get 50% off Ableton Suite which is a great saving) Battery wise, you can't power a rackmount audio interface from a battery, so if you would like a portable use as well as adat in/out expandability while in the studio (with a Behringer ADA 82000 for instance), you'll end up having to buy 2 x audio interfaces, so that's 750USD there. One thing people will have to buy on the Push3 probably is also a portable preamp as the mic preamp on the Push3 is poor, so that's 100usd extra for an ART USB Dual Pre. Either way, I think Push3 is a worthwhile investment as a non standalone for most people and as a standalone for some of the users (the ability to have a battery in there is handy, however short @2odd hours it may last) I like mine anyway
It seems to me the push 3 standalone is aimed at the gigging musician. If you`re a songwriter you need to see the arrangement view, and that means connecting to a computer. So if you`re not a gigging musician it makes no sense to pay the extra.
I went to Guitar Center trading in my Push 2 first day Push 3 released, hoping for better return... Still not get it, but about to push "buy". No Questions to get it. Though over years waiting for standalone BADLY .... will get just a controller. To accustomed to luxury of my plugs and analogue synths in studio 😆
Great compare vid…thanks homie. If you’ve ever jammed all this gear into a box for travel and live performance, and then setup and sound checked at venue, and then used it live with an audience…you will probably think the single device is a game changer. About 5 years ago I went the APC Route, with many similar add ons, and as cool and fun as it was, 2023 I’d go for the Push 3, which dollar per dollar is probably more fun too 😎🖤🙌🐘 good luck all 🍀
Get the tethered Push 3 and a Steam Deck or the ROG Ally or a Macbook if you dont want to pay the premium for the standalone version which is more limited than the tethered version anyway. I have been a Push 2 user for years and Im all in on the Push/ Live workflow, but I have debated whether or not to upgrade. Thankfully, Ableton was forward-thinking enough to offer an upgrade path for the tethered Push 3.
Absolutely! Offering the two versions plus upgradability was a good move on their end. Upgrading from Push 2 to Push 3 tethered is totally worth it and not unreasonable.
Interesting comparison. I think you will need to add cost to Ableton 3 SA for headphones or speakers which is built in a laptop. And we can go on and on adding stuff in one corner or another. Basically I do not believe that a beginner will buy and spent $2.000 on the first piece of gear. So most people interested in a Push 3 have already got a home studio (and probably a Push 2). It always feels like you have second hand gear that nobody wants anymore when a new(er) edition comes out, so I do like the expandability of the Push 3 to make it more future proof. If it will ever become a ‘real’ instrument is a matter of definition. For me an instrument most retain its value regardless of technology improvements, like a piano, guitar, saxophone or violin. But that’s just my definition 😉
the non standalone version is actually interesting to me as someone new to push. but 2k for a midi controller with a chip I need to upgrade in a year? no thanks
Well, because the Push 2 or better say - Ableton Live has bugs ruining the flow, and the Ableton team seems not into fixing it, instead making ... Drift, I don't think that we will have a Push 3 super star in the near future
Thanks for video! I think the problem in push3 is a intel processor. For exapmple Roland Zencore processor have very good level of efficiency at 1000$ you have standalone device with 8x16 clips. pads, effects.
I have push 2 and the APC 40 MK2 and a Joue Pro and I'm happy with my lot, but you forgot to build in the price of the apc mk2 into your costings to control session view.. Your video is really interesting though regarding costings. if you were to buy 4 roli seablocks for 64 pads for eg the push 3 instantly looks good value.
It’s standalone-ish … it doesn’t have a standalone arrangement mode … this is 2000 dollar sketch pad . The IO is lacking the fact that the unit isn’t class compliant is just silly . If you really want ppl to bring this out as a Live instrument/ performance device ( DJs ) this unit is lacking . I wish this was a partnership with akai …. The akai force should of been the starting point of the push 3 hardware wise and the development should of been focused porting Ableton live to the Force . On that note There’s no reason why Live can’t run on IOS as a full Daw with a push 3 as the controller. I’m sorry for the rant but it just seems like a bunch of missed opportunities.
@@metamindmusicofficial Also theres the Steam Deck, which is Linux based not Windows, but Ableton Live works on Linux too so its an option as well. I imagine quite a few people might consider going that route with the tethered version of the Push 3.
I think for that price, a $600 Mac Mini with M2 Apple Silicon would likely be a better performance value. It’d certainly run circles around the intel i3 in the standalone Push 3.
MPE is overrated. It offers greater play possibilities but requires better control in playing music. I sometimes turn off after touch on a keyboard because you can get unintended inputs. I can get to the same place with after touch, a pitch wheel, and a modulation wheel on a keyboard. People made music hundreds of years before MIDI and MPE.
Good vid! I did get the push 3 SA version just to have everything in one box. I easily get distracted on my laptop (adhd much) so I’ve always been looking for standalone devices. I can also state using the Push 3 SA with the APC 40 works seamlessly together in standalone mode.
With the laptop, you glossed over the lack of Arrangement View, and for me, you glossed over Clyphx (as well as other remote scripts)...... the truth is, you really can't use stand alone P3 without a laptop..... and the audio interface with 2I/2O is extremely low powered. I use a P2 with an APC-40 MKII, in much the same way. Dedicated volume vaders, mute buttons, and cross-fade are a far better performance setup than all the context switching in Push.
Fair point! The lack or arrangement view in standalone is a pretty big deal compared to what you get with the full version of Ableton. Though I’m not surprised they didn’t include it, yet. As for the more advanced clip automations with Clyphx, follow actions and the such… I didn’t know if it would work or not since I don’t have a unit to test.
I hate drum machines lol like hate them . I started with computer production . But I love my push 3 . I create extremely fast, And just finish my songs on my computer like everybody does who uses stand alone machines . Only thing I don’t like is abletons sounds are trash to me . I make my on samples then load them on push and just go crazy or load it up with music and flip that . Or I’ll just plug up my keyboards guitar and bass and work like that . The price is high but really to me it’s been worth it
MPE is more closer to MIDI 2 and when that happen you won't be needed anymore. Velocity can give you 16bit amount of function and that's 128 per one pad. Now MPE is 😂 nothing usable just go back to M Audio Code or any X-Y and that's it. Audience is more interesting in what Push 3 can do??? No nonsensical and basic sounds playing together in polifony . It does come with Little version for 2000$ 😮 what can be done?
