@@Bruce56 wrong how exactly? And what do you mean “sign up”?. If you reduce the demand for an item, then its black market (or flipper market in this case) vanishes. Why would I buy a Rolex over its normal selling price from a flipper when I could walk into a store and buy a new one from an AD? Artificially restricting sales of the watches drives up the price, and the subsequent flipping opportunity.
@@Bruce56 wrong how? The only reason someone can make an easy flip is because the sales are artificially restricted by the ADs. If the dealers simply sold their stock at a competitive price, customers would have no need to pay an inflated price to a flipper, and the flip market would disappear.
I own a Rolex Yachtmaster. I bought it 19 years ago. I also own a vintage Submariner. So I have two of their watches. I wanted to buy a new Submariner as a gift for my son. I have been to a couple of stores and they each said they only sold to Rolex customers. Well, I own two of them. Aren’t I a customer? I will never buy another one. I don’t need to beg a retailer to sell me anything.
You sound like a great dad. My father still has my grandfather’s old submariner that he bought in 1960 and several Daytonas my dad bought for himself over the years. My grandfather gave my father the submariner when he turned thirteen under the condition that if he had a son one day he would pass it on at his 13th birthday with the same instructions to pass it on to his son. That was a big deal to my grandfather that he often asked about. My dad never honored his wishes. I wound up buying myself a decent Tag Formula 1 when I turned 21. I’m about to turn 40 and find myself wanting a Rolex but not liking the games. I might just buy a classic example from the 50s or 60s.
What you need to remember is the clients who they are saving models for were buying before the hype and will be long after so it’s important as a business to keep them happy as Joe bloggs who walks in may only buy one watch and although that’s important a return customer is worth more in the long term! This isn’t a new practice it was occurring 15+ years ago
@@colingill47I personally would not buy again just because of the way they treat you 😂 whereas I am 100% certain I will buy another omega because I truely felt welcome and you could feel the entusiasm about their watched. Whereas in the Rolex Store It felt like they were laughing Into your face while putting you on their imaginary waiting list
@@colingill47Whatever…most Rolex buyers are posers that have no love for timepieces. It’s just wrist-candy to them. Glory days of Rolex have been over for a long time.
Nice. One of the only two former employees at Rolex who tell it like it is on RU-vid, and this video is more in-depth than the other one and not holding back. Don't mind all the haters and complainers. This video is GOLD to those that are actual watch enthusiasts. Former resident of Hawaii. Mahalo, bradda.
Profiling, discrimination and upfront lies from a retail store. Doesn't make me feel good about ever owning one. That should be a red flag to the Rolex market. Great video. Thanks.
Well put JeffBoyd. Paying this kind of money entitles the buyer to at least feel welcome, rather than feeling like getting in a long line to apply for a crappy job.
@@Ballistarius-nx4dwDiamonds are a horrible “investment” buy your fiancé a high quality CZ in a quality gold setting along with a few ozs of pure gold! 😂
No I really don’t. I think Rolexes are def the better option to keep your money value but you like what you like I guess. I’ll have to keep losing money!😂
Been a watch buyer, seller, and collector for over 53 years. Had many Rolex’s, never waited to buy, never gave my personal information to buy a watch,and would never ever, absolutely never get on a list or be told to be nice, or beg to be sold anything, especially a generic run of the mill Rolex watch. I’ve had watches made just for me, 1 of 1. There are literally millions upon millions of watches up for sale every second the world spins, Rolex has a tightly controlled branded name for an over priced average time piece. Explore the world for watches, from cheap to expensive there’s a wide, wide, world of watches out there go have fun!
Folks that are just beginning to get in to the hobby currently have a great advantage over us old-timers. The research available to them at a keystroke is priceless. A bit of delving onto the technical specs of brands like Longines and Tudor and comparing to Rolex quickly reveals that there is a ton of value for money to be had in Swiss watchmaking today. Rolex can participate however they see fit, but there are many, many pieces on the market that can match or surpass Rolex for fractions of the price even when paying full retail.
I got an Air King way before the big markups. For way under retail. I'm not interested in this bullshit. I feel the same way. My Cartier Tank I got for 1700 is around 4000 now. They all went crazy.
This kind of behavior by dealers is what gives the flippers their market. There wouldn't be a flipping market if Rolex would sell watches like a normal store and not hold them back. They are creating the secondary market.
The exclusivity of the primary market and the higher prices of the secondary market keep Rolex's bar to entry and prices high. Rolex likes how things are now I'm sure!
@@infxmhc exactly, I'm going through this game with an AD right now for an exp 40 and sick of it, I'm just going to buy secondary. It's all working the way they want.
@@infxmhc If they had any intelligence, they'd see that people are willing to pay higher prices for their watches, as shown by the flipper market, and they'd raise their prices and then sell to anyone who had the money and keep the profits for themselves instead of letting parasite flippers steal those unrealized profits.
That green dial Moonshine Speedmaster is a grail in my book, but since that's out of reach, I might pick up the Seaweed Master. Still haven't seen the color in person though.
Legit advice. I got called 2-months after expressing my interest in a stainless steel sports model. While I was waiting for a link to be taken out, my AD straight up said, "The reason I called you is because we can tell you're going to wear the watch, and you're not a flipper". I think the problem is convincing them you're not lying. True story. I don't mind the background check though. Actually like it. If it gets rid or reduces the flipper and gray market, all the better.
@@stevenfoleyuk9404 they made over 10 billion dollars last year, I don't buy rolex but the people who buy the expensive gold models will keep buying them, the guy upset when his submariner takes too long is not calling the shots.
That's exactly the reason why I went to the Omega, Tudor and Breitling AD instead. Don't treat me like a fool or beggar when I'm willing to pay 8.000€ for a watch 🙃
@@TheBajamin If you go tomorrow to the local Tudor AD you will get the watch that you want most likely instantly. If it's a completely new model (e.g. the Coke GMT or black Monochrome) they will call you in 1-3 months to collect it. But you will never ever have to buy something totally different first to get higher on their priority list to be even able to buy the watch (which is very common at the Rolex AD )
@@highsoflyify you realize that’s still supporting Rolex lol. They WANT you to go and buy the Tudor. Don’t buy either, stop giving that shit company your money.
Thanks for your video. I used to own a Kermit, and sold it, when I sold my business. So Rolex is a bit in the past for me. I love my Pelagos, which I think is a better watch than my sub. I wear it for everything, and couldn't be happier. Titanium, especially the type 2 wears really well and the usage is beautiful, unlike scratches to SS, which looks scary. Everyone: enjoy the watch YOU love. And be kind to others.
Great video, very informative and straightforward. As a long-time watch enthusiast who started my collection with my father’s 1601 Datejust, I had never encountered this information before even from watch forums.
Disgusting business practices. We moved to Omega and Breitling because of all the childish games Rolex plays. No more Rolex in our home. Should be illegal to conduct business like this.
i was given that very book after i put my information months ago. i would never want to beg for something that i work hard for. so if rolex wouldn't give me my watch then i would gladly move to other brands that would gladly take my money.
Same here. I was placed on an "interest database" and was also given the hardbound catalog after I ordered a Tudor. I doubt I will ever get the call, so I'm now on Chrono to find the watch I want. The thing is, the only Rolexes that I'm interested in are the Explorer and maybe the BLNR on Jubilee. If JLC brings back the Geophysic True Second at some point, I can forget about the GMT Master II.
I know of one AD in my city who expects first time clients to buy a Day-Date as their first piece, and I know a handful of clients for this AD who have confirmed this rule. Basically, its a case of "show us how much cash you are willing to spend and maybe one day we'll let you buy a steel GMT or steel Sub". Rolex & their ADs have forgotten who their real clients are... and its not "Piere the investment banker", its "Peter the plumber". Now that the grey wrist watch market is essentially dead, and that watches are no longer being seen as a speculative investment asset, this is really going to bite Rolex hard as a brand in the coming 5-10 years.
I don't think their client base was ever "Peter the plumber" tbh. I think, like many luxury brands, they sell an idea of their products as something designed for rugged, adventurous sportsmen, but they as well as anyone else knows that the vast majority of these watches are being worn to and from the office by well-paid white collar employees. The whole thing is a fiction. Maybe that was less true in the 40s and 50s than it is today, but it's certainly the case today.
@@FerrisBjust to chime in there clients are the people coming up. I went to Rolex 4yrs ago wanting to build my relationship with them. They ignored and offered me nothing, I KNEW I where I wanted/would be. 5 grey market Rolex’s and now I’m on my second AP from retail. Rolex IS changing for the better however they lost me forever as a customer because of how they treated me when I wanted my starter watch. Now times my story by millions. Peter the plumber could be Peter the CEO one day or just the idea of getting that Rolex after saving up and being laughed at. Now Peter’s kids don’t like Rolex, dominos. Hope that makes sense
@@Ryan40272 because they are scammers. In the time they took to get me a OP I was on my 5th grey rolex. At which point how do I even build a relationship if they made me go elsewhere to buy my starter watches
Ok interesting. Not at the store I used to work at, my District manager was very strict, afraid of losing the partnership with Rolex. Rolex has employees that buy back watches from the gray market and tracks where they were bought from .
Bought my watch from the Rolex store and went again a few years after, just for curiosity sake, and asked about a particular model. The people there are quite friendly and actually text you when the model you want is available. They did collect my name and such..😅 I think they may have a database of their customer’s name, like most luxury product sellers would. ☺️ With luxury products, I think it’s best to get it at the store and not anywhere else so as not to get duped, and you won’t have any problem with product service later on. 😅
This is why I went to Omega! The customer service at the Omega boutique is A+. I was looking for the new white speedy and 3 weeks later when the boutique received their shipment they called me, I went in and bought it. They popped a bottle of champagne for me and my wife while they prepared the watch. Awesome experience forget Rolex.
In 1969 I bought a Rolex Oyster perpetual from a jewellers in Germany. After wearing it for a couple of years I started to wonder what all the fuss was about. Despite a certificate of timekeeping that it's average gain/loss was +11 secs, it never achieved that claim on my wrist; 20 secs gain every day was average, and I'd owned Ingersoll cheapos that could do better than that. The bracelet gave up the ghost after 5 years; just fell apart. Disillusioned ,I took it to Austin Kaye in the Strand and they took it in exchange for a new quartz Timex that kept time to an accuracy of 1+ second a day. Best decision I ever made.
I don't fully agree with this. Merely 10 years ago you could basically walk into any AD and buy the watch you wanted. Social media fomo and "iNfLuEnCeRs" did ruin the market to a certain degree. Flippers are part of this. It's not just watches but basically anything exclusive/limited/expensive.
@@rogaldorn252 Absolutely , you nailed it , you can’t even buy an LV or Gucci sweater these days all sold out and you’ll find them in stock x or on other sites for sale at double the value the same with trainers like Yeezy back then having to raffle just for the opportunity to buy at retail .
you can buy rolexes everywhere. how do they control the market? if they dont want to sell to new comers thats their issues. ill just buy mine from a middle man
@@tommyreusse3858 You obviously aren't too aware of Rolexes attempts and Techniques... You honestly think used and BNIB Rolexes would be so expensive if not for their meddling and ridiculous sales barriers?.... NOPE.. We're paying more because of their Market Control.
@@tommyreusse3858you can buy them everywhere at retail? Oh yea? Please go to any major city and walk out with a sub, Daytona , gmt or explorer 2 polar. I'm waiting.
Exactly why I won’t buy another Rolex! It’s been at least 25 years since I purchased my last Rolex, went to a dealer a couple weeks ago to purchase a Submariner and they started playing this exact game. I’m not going to jump through hoops to purchase an objectively overpriced luxury item. After leaving that dealer and hearing similar stories from others I decided to explore other quality brands. I’m happy I did as I ended up purchasing a new Sinn U212 and I’m very happy with it. Definitely not the same look as Sub but no doubt more capable and a real collectors conversation piece at a fraction of the cost.
That's why i bought many Rolex's from the grey market. some dealers give a quality service. i will not be held to ransom to buy a watch. that's why i am now into Tudor. a quality watch without the false promises and the hoops to jump through.
Just like De Beers trying to monopolize diamonds, same bs here, Rolex plays games with the rareness of their watches to drive fake demand. Thats called criminal.
ّI will never consider buying a Rolex, just because of the attitude you receive, I tried to buy my 1st Rolex many times and never worked and always the answer a 5 years waiting list. if we are not treated equally, then there is many great brands out there worth buying from
Impossible to catch all flippers. Not all of them sell through social media . Also flippers get more savvy and find more loopholes. Thank you for watching.
@@michaelbishop1 Car Dealerships do the same, basically your paying for the "certified" tag, meaning all the parts are authentic and they look and tested it
It does add up, most of the watches the dealers get are from Trade Shows - People are buying and selling watches all the time, Rich Guy wants a different and new watch, sells his old watch. They do not necessarily have to get them from trade shows.
Thanks for sharing this video, Hawaii Hardy! SPOT ON. One month after visiting my AD for an Op 41 black dial, I received “The Text.” NO spend history. First Rolex. If it happened to me, it can happen to you. Best of luck to all and thanks again Hawaii Hardy!!
Terrific piece. I really enjoyed it and your honesty is commendable. I played the AD game and did get a Datejust after about four months. No bells and whistles. Clean, white dial. Handsome. Bought some jewelry and engaged them for repairs first. Not sure i would do this again. Pre-owned is a better value for me. Thanks!
Thanks for the advice. I will one day get my Explorer II in polar white. I've bought too many other watches to scratch that itch, but I still go back to wanting that Explorer.
A few years ago I was offered the polar Explorer II on my first visit to an AD and I turned it down because I wanted the Explorer. Then later, at another AD, they offered me the Explorer and I didn’t like it. Wish I would’ve taken a look at that polar Explorer II.
I made the “list” as a first time buyer and got my first brand new Rolex Polar Explorer II from the AD a year ago in Jan of 2023. Took about 9 months to get it, definitely worth the wait…..I got it for my 50th so I think the next purchase will be for my 55th…..we’ll see, as of now, super happy with my EXP2. Cheers and thanks for the insight!!
As a businessman, I just buy from the grey market and pay the premium. The amount I’ll save from paying retail, even for a Le Mans, is nothing had I just spent the time, effort, and *money* building that AD relationship to my business instead. Unless you’re a celebrity, don’t buy from AD. If you could buy relationship-building watches you probably are rich, and your time is probably worth more than the savings from not paying the premium.
Exactly what I did. I was strung along for 2 years, all the while checking in, kissing *ss, and being suggested to to buy other jewelry. I said forget it! I'd rather pay less and go grey market rather than spend more and be stuck with pieces and jewelry that I didn't want.
Exactly this. You pay grey market premium, but time = money and that alone saves you tons. And the premium is only initially. You would spend a factor more of that building that relationship.
When I’m ready to buy my first Rolex, I’d like it to be brand new so that I can write my own story with the watch. I don’t want something that’s been worn. I want to start a fresh book.
International airports can be quite good! They know it's all pass-through travelers so if they have something in stock they might as well sell it to you if you're the first to seriously inquire. You can see several YT videos on it.
I waited for a Datejust 41mm Wimbledon (2 tone) for 1.5yrs. Never got the call after repeatedly following up. I bought one grey, took it to the AD to show the salesperson, I get "the call" 2 weeks later for the same watch LOL.
RLX is just great when it comes creating demand. Marketing genius! And all the other brands were able to increase their prices too because of RLX leading the pack.
I just got my first Rolex literally yesterday (Explorer 40). I was on a "wish list" for years, but since I'd purchased previously from WOS I was able to finally get one. No reselling here, that baby's here to stay. And the BEST SA ever, that really helps! Mine was fantastic and hilarious!
That’s funny how trying to buy your watch from somewhere different than a store you’ve previously done business with can work against you, specially when your end game is to just acquire a watch!
Very enlightening, and what a shame that a few fools mess up the buying experience for good honest people who would like to buy a Rolex at some point. I was very lucky then really having bought an Explorer 2 polar in 1999, and I still am very happy with it. I will say to anyone not to be put off though - and if you see a pre-owned beauty that you have been looking for in an authorised Rolex dealership then go for it, as 'not used much' Rolex watches don't hang around either!
Great information. I have been away from the collecting business for nearly a decade. I own an SS Sub and a Day-Date from the early 2000's and that's about all I'm going to own from Rolex. I got both of them brand new by just walking into an authorized AD back in the day. I guess times have changed.
When I got to know about watches I was crazy about rolex. I didn’t have any money back then. When I had money, I learned about watchmaking. And then I realized that Rolex is a marketing company not a watch company
Walked into the new AD at fashion island in Newport Beach CA yesterday and walked out with a DJ 41, two tone, fluted bezel, champagne diamond dial on oyster bracelet. That was my dream watch I had been trying to get from the south coast plaza store for 2+ years. I am now in the system at fashion island and couldn’t be happier.
Thanks for the tips, a good reminder why I have no interest in the brand and seems like many are losing interest as well. There are simply too many great if not better brands out there if you aren't shallow and only care about the status symbol of a rolex to randos. I can afford a Rolex but I'm not playing these games, so my next watch will be a Grand Seiko for sure.
I was looking and looking for a submariner and I finally started leaving negative yelp and Google reviews and made complaints to the BBB… that’s finally when I got one. They wanna play games I’ll play games too.
Thanks! This video helped a lot!! I am now convinced that superclones are the only way to go. I have zero interest in building a relationship with a liar, much less begging. If I am the one with the money, then I’ll be the one to vote with my dollar.
Except your Lexus will lose half of its value in several years while the Rolex will only continue to go up. Certain models are twice the retail price as soon as you receive it. But yea, it’s a big if you will get one from the AD.
I started buying invictas as a teenager. My first really nice automatic was a Hamilton I bought for $140 at a collectors mall, next was a longines, next was an omega, and finally a pre owned Rolex gmt master ii batman with the oyster bracelet. I absolutely love the Batman and I'll never sell it.
I have owned three Rolex each one gets a little more fancy . I love them ! They are the one luxury item you can buy that you can handown to your grandchildren . Nothing makes a man feel good then being well dressed an a rolex on his wrist . My last one I sold was fifteen years old and looked brand new .
And here I thought it was about making business and building relationships. I've never seen an "empty" watch store in my life until I came across Rolex stores. I did tell them to FO and went to Omega!
This was such a helpful video - thank you for the real info! I was able to purchase an Explorer 2 at the Ala Moana Rolex using some of your tips within a week of being put on ‘the list’.
All of these tips - do this, don't do this, say that, don't say that - only gave one message - even though you are a customer willing to spend your money to buy a product, Rolex treats you like they're giving you a charity and you must prove that you deserve it.
The Rolex AD’s are the ones that sell to grey market dealers, the stock that they can’t sell fast, like full gold with diamonds lady stuff, they sell that to grey market dealers, often family members! The wanted pieces are sold to VIP clients. So as a normal buyer you have almost zero chance to get anything from them, except used pieces, so you have to go grey market or just move away from Rolex.
Best thing you can do is to have an honest and genuine reason, and be able to articulate it well. I wanted a Polar Exp II as my "beat cancer" watch. My first buy from that AD. I anticipated a 2 year wait, which would time perfectly for when I got off cancer monitoring and give me time to save. Told them my goal and timeline. Then they surprised me 6 months later for my 40th birthday. Honestly, I wasn't prepared and had to move some money around, but I made it work. Naturally, that left me with needing a new "beat cancer" watch, lol. Have an easier to get, but harder to afford, grail piece in mind now; Bregeut Tradition Retrograde Seconds. Will have to go used, cause there's no way I could swing that new. I'll circle back for either a Skydweller or DJ eventually. But now that I got the Exp II, I want a grail piece for a grail event.
My wife was offered to purchase a DJ to her liking on the 2nd week we came in. We bought a Cartier the previous week since there were no Rolex available. We had our names wait listed on 2 DJs. The following week my wife wanted to change the Rolex she wait-listed on. The one she wanted was actually in stock and our AD staff went to the manager if we can buy it. By then I knew it would be sold to us.
Congratulations. Purchasing the Cartier started the relationship. Datejust are awesome, they are the most produced watch by Rolex , we used to have many in stock. Thank you for sharing.
Yes, we were actually really surprised. Now waiting for mine, hoping to get a Datejust 41mm on green dial (fluted/jubillee) or the GMT Pepsi (I’m told no waitlist as it may take 2 years or so). There were actually 2 GMT Pepsi’s on the floor, was hoping I can get it but I guess not yet.
Yes because more than a million people want them!!! And the flippers are making a fortune, and the people that really want the watches can’t get them and have to buy at over inflated prices…. I appreciate Rolex doing that. Loads of top brands do, do you think you can just walk in and get the latest Ferrari or Hermes bag etc?
I paid more to get the watch I wanted. I don’t regret it because I’m not going to play any game to spend my hard earned money. I just want to buy what I want without games.
Went to AD for a DJ with fluted dial but it was discontinued. Waited for Watches and Wonders and decided to ask for an Everose sky Dweller although I’ll probably never see it. Bought from the store before but it was 20 years ago.
“Flippers” are tiresome, but I still don’t see why Rolex should care what a customer does with his purchase after walking out. They got paid, end of their part in the deal.
It creates frustration within the watch community, if you can't get one or if you're going to be treated like you're doing them a favour handing over your money, you'll go somewhere else. I think this was part of the incentive for Rolex to buy Bucherer. They're fed up of AD's tarnishing their image.
@@casualdudereviewshow does that work? If the AD would simply sell you one, that’s AD experience right there. It’s their own behavior that pushes clients to flippers. Talk about a self fulfilling prophecy.
Thank you for watching. The market has improved for buyers . Let the AD know why you really love that model and be honest and forthcoming about this being your first dream Rolex, the chances should be good. At our location we had a few Explorer 36 come in regularly. Good luck
I walked in to the AD and told him that my wife is pregnant and I would love to purchase a Sprite GMT to celebrate this. Three months later he texted me that my watch is ready for pick up. My purchase history with the AD was a Black Bay 58.
About a year ago, I walked into an AD at my local mall. Struck up a conversation with the Salesman. He asked me some questions about what I do for a living. I told him I'm interested in becoming a collector and told him I was interested in the Rolex Two Tone Submariner. He took down my info like you mentioned. I never purchased anything else from this store, and 3 weeks later he called me and said he got the Sub in and asked if I was still interested. He ended up selling it to me. To this day, I have no Idea what he chose to sell it to me without having a prior relationship. but I guess I just got lucky. Like you said, I played it cool, and was genuine about what I wanted.
This is exactly why I will never own a Rolex. I don’t want to kiss the ass of some retail associate, I don’t want to be researched and spied on. When I spend thousands on a watch, I am the one that wants his ass kissed not the other way around. Rolex can take their watches and shove them were the sun doesn’t shine 😂
