This might be the most important Star Citizen video to watch. For people thinking about getting into it, as well as for current players. It gives what almost no other videos or articles can... a fair and mostly objective perspective on the game and its progress.
You know, you pointing out that you have been covering it every day for 4 YEARS really makes me empathize with the few times you really show frustration with it all. How you maintain the positivity is commendable
It's a balance. I have plenty of gripes and frustrations I talk more about on the Livestreams and podcasts, but there are plenty interesting things to cover as well.
@@GlennRRB What makes you think people will suddenly decide to stop spending money on the game with year after year of record breaking income? I think some people won't ever stop giving them money short of the company outright dissolving.
@@nologin5375 Its a lot easier to a company stop receiving money than to receive money forever. Maybe they ll keep fooling around with ppls cash, but everything changes. A lot of good companies die. Imagine the bad ones.
Money was supposed to be used to develop Star Citizen, but it's been used to develop an entire company. Fancy headquarters studio buildings, elaborate constructions at the studios including custom sliding doors and corporate art, rather than pinching pennies they've been spending like it's a never ending stream of cash coming in. Then they're going to sell the final product and and we will have financed the creation of an entire company. All the assets gained using our cash will be theirs to keep and use for further products. Pretty genius actually.
Ill say another thing. If I remember correctly, the original pitch of the kickstarter was the single player campaign wasnt it, it was why i backed. Online took over as the kickstarter got bigger.
"For now most people should not be playing it" I couldn't agree more. When people ask me how SC is doing I tell them to not get involved unless they're the most hardcore space simmers (and at that point they most likely already have a pledge). I can't wait to do all the cool activities this game will have with my friends but we're not there yet.
Yea for some of us the real dream is hoping we will still be alive when that final release game does finally come! I started thinking I found a game I could play with my son and now we are at the state where I am hoping it will be done so I can play with my grandson and I doubt I will give two shits if it takes so long I would dream about playing with my great grand son!
Yep. I have absolutely stopped talking about it. There are two people I know who are great candidates for SC but have been completely turned off. So no more recomendations from me, until the state of the game gets MUCH better.
"We don't have scope creep, it's just that old mechanics increase in scope as they're tied in with other features." Hey, I hate to be the guy to tell you this but that's the definition of scope creep lol
I loved Wing Commander, so when this was pitched, I was an early crowdfunder. It's 11 years later, and yeah, I'm REALLY tired of waiting. I'm also tired of the excuses that come out about their really crappy customer service. So I'm not playing, but I'm also really angry that I gave them money a decade ago and am still waiting. They can make all the excuses they want, but a decade is still a decade and they've taken in hundreds of millions without really delivering.
@@Vandetta333 A thank you for "expanding virtual sciences", and a farewell to "all the backers" for making such a "fun and fulfilling ride with friends" a possibility. Yours truly, Chris Roberts and suckers co. It's already the most expensive piece of software of all time. There isn't money for marketing, bar the money they may get in the future out of those too invested. Obviously, deleting progress and talking over points of development isn't as precise and return friendly as quality informed intuition of the best in the industry, or letting AI handle the matrices the so much struggled with, and are probably culling through, over and over, until nothing of value is left. Anything they've worked for for so long, could have been done in 10 months today. The verbal bullshittery of Roberts is the most "vitriolous" part of the same failings that plague Phil Spencer, but he has deadlines that come to pass, and there is progress that stands test of time, unlike Chris who dominates everyone with a shred of money with shitlaced honey, and "Listen! If we do it such.. and SUCH..!" "..blahblah, please let me staaaay..!". Freelancer 2.0 guys- there is nothing in the engine, that would excuse anything like what has come to pass, bar the world being ready for tremendous AI, grand scale compute revolution implementation, results of which, would be on sale already. Get away right now, the sooner it will stop beoing re, and, de-constructed.. the sooner it will release, and be able to build upon itself. *Not attacking you Vandetta333, or anything, just putting things down "on paper"
@@Vandetta333 Its not the time, its 750mil to build a company, buy studios hire people etc. if money starts drying up it will lead to more delays, more money dries up and eventually fail, it all depends on if they are going to have money coming in, they can afford development going far in the future that would require 42 to come out and be a huge hit.
I remember buying a ship for this thing in 2013 or so. I also remember that my nephew was just a newborn then. He is now 10, almost 11. I have only touched this 2 or 3 times since then, cause it became obvious what this was turning into. Again, take the time to understand and think about the timespan of a person being born and to being close to becoming a teenager lol, and this hasn't been released yet lol... I feel bad for people that have been invested in this and can't see how absurd it is anymore. Their denial has created this alternate reality that they force themselves into apparently.
Conversely, I bought a Mustang Alpha starter pack three years ago and have at points spent months playing it every day. No other game I own about flying spaceships comes anywhere close in the "actually flying your spaceship" department.
Sure. It's just most backers expected a full / relatively polished experience in less than 6 years because that's what they were promised. Most game studios in that situation get the backlash + get to do the patches for free if they care about making another game ever.
@@ackbooh9032 I sincerely doubt CIG will be making another game. Again they may not even finish this one. And I mean even after all these years, they're still working on trying to get certain things to work. It'd hard personally to fault them for not finishing their game after all these years when the games you see DO get completed in this genre have only a fraction of the potential features
There were people who backed this, excited for a new game from the creator of Wing commander and Privateer, after the 2012 trailer. They had tears in their eyes and spent hundreds of dollars. It would just take 3 or 4 years Roberts said. They have since died, never getting anything playable for or it.
@@catriona_drummond The Persistent Universe has been running since 2015. I first tried the game in 2016, but my GPU at the time couldn't handle it. I don't think they should have promised any timeframe, and even when they did, I don't think anyone should have believed them. I don't think anyone, themselves included, had any idea how complicated making this game was going to be. But they're still working on it! They could have taken their ball and their hundreds of millions of dollars and gone home, but they're still plugging away at this monstrosity, trying to get it to be the thing they've been dreaming about for decades.
“The game’s not going anywhere”. Aunt that the truth! The promises about delivery dates for content (“SQ42 in 2 years!”) have slipped so many times that CiG has lost all respectability. Scope creep masquerading as stretch goals. If I didn’t know it’d only serve to line a lawyer’s pockets, I’d suggest a class action suit
@@Synthmilk Unreasonable delay for the delivery of a bought product? As Mike said above, they've blown past the promised delivery date with not too much more reasoning than "we found out we had more money so we decided we'd add more bells and whistles" which kept pushing that date further and further back. I'd imagine it would come down to needing to prove intent to scam before a payout would be possible in that situation. This is all hypothetical though. Personally, I think CIG has the money and that's it. No one will see a penny back even if nothing comes out.
@@daggern15 You would have to make the argument that the delay is unreasonable, nobody has made that argument for more than from their own personal perspective, and as is obvious, most people do not agree it's unreasonable. What's been added is far more than bells and whistles. Not to mention, for the PU, none of the features added have had any negative impact on the development of their server tech. Server tech that isn't finished yet. So even if they had finished only the bare minimum of features promised, the game still wouldn't be released, as the server tech is one of those original features. As for SQ42, getting more money than expected and thus expanding the scope and depth of the game is perfectly reasonable for a project of this kind, meaning one that is a dream moon shot. Again, the vast majority are fine with this. It would be hard for nothing to come of the project when we have had something come of it for over a decade. Not to mention CIG doesn't have most of the money anymore, it's mostly gone to salaries. So obviously if there was an end to the project that resulted in refunds, people would not get close to what they paid. That's not a scam, that's simple math.
It’s a tech demo because Chris Roberts is a poor leader. A good leader would have directed the project to the point of single system completion, added a few more systems, and then kept working from there. We all know they’ve had enough time and money. But Roberts doesn’t direct the project into a skillfully narrowed beam. He does 10-30% of all things then abandons them. It’s an unfocused, poorly managed mess. And that’s because of him.
@@johnryan3622 A capable leader would have focused on finishing Squadron 42 as a proof of concept years ago, to showcase both the technology and ambition, to get something tangible out there for the consumers from which to build further. Even if that would have meant making compromises concerning features or scope. Pushing the boundaries of what is possible is fine, Roberts has done it throughout his career as a game developer, always was avantgarde. But one can also push ambitions too far. And Roberts obviously doesn't know when to stop and reel in those lofty ambitions of his. He doesn't know how to limit himself to what's actually achievable with what's available and focus. And the fools that uncritically keep supporting him with their money only stoke those critical flaws and help him keep his head above the clouds so he can keep stargazing.
Money doesn't magically make it possible to hit all deadlines. Obviously the player experience isn't that bad, since so many people are playing and continue to play.
I'm a 2014 backer and have long given up on any hope. It's been 9 years for me. Is 10 years a reasonable time to develop a game? 15 years? While the stuttering progress and dev issues may just be representative of how other large scale AAA budget games are developed, they're operating on the assumption that they can switch tack at any time (which they seem to be doing quite often) and that they will continue to receive funding from the public in a never-ending dev cycle. What happens when the interest and the money dies out?
Will it ever run out, though? They seem to have figured out a way to keep this ball rolling indefinitely. There's some serious skill involved in pulling that off, I must admit. No game, just endless development, paying for the lives of a sizeable team, seemingly forever.
A really quick note. Some great games like factorio, rimworld, oxygen not included, etc. etc. went for quite some time in early access (5+ years) so to come to citizen's defense for just a second (even though I have no hopes for it) they oversold what they were trying to do but the "early access for about a decade thing" isn't a solid line in the ever more common early access dev cycle. The only way No Man's Sky differs is that it released every update for free which made the game redeemable but the reason I include it here is because rather than go the EA route they released the game 1.0 from the get go. Fast forward to 2023 and it's still getting developed. Star Citizen clearly is a turd that is probably akin to Mass Effect Andromeda. Overly ambitious, has a few redeemable qualities, but overall has no positives for the parent company to >ever< release the game because that only means they'll get roasted akin to cyberpunk or other similar games with day1 patches and continue to fix it... only now in the open. Sad too afaik, Starfield is pretty much what star citizen promised to be, only without all the BS at least according to what my coworkers say about it.
10+ years seems reasonable considering that yet no game, even those that took 10 years have achieved what Star Citizens has already to offer. If CIG seems greedy, remember that this studio needs money and that it is a crowdfunded model. If people stop investing, the project just dies instantly. You don't pay for a jpeg or some useless paint. In fact, you are financing a project and get in return goodies as a reward. You don't buy a paint, ship or a jpeg for itself.
...you cant count all their Stretchgoals and compare them to those already implemented somehow, to check how many % is already done of the game and how long it will still take... You get that, right? 😅
If cig was a bakery they could bake 4 pies in 2 hours, but by the time the recipe is finalized 5 years will have passed, and no pies. Just custard and pie crust samples.
True. Star Citizen is in reality a money print for Roberts, millions keep coming in day after day, all he needs to do is to maintain the illusion of "the greatest game ever". Star Citizen will only come out once the money dries up, and then it most certainly will NOT be the game promised.
This gets said often, but I really, truly, wholeheartedly believe this game will never actually release. In 20 years, this will somehow still be "in development."
I mean, we’re about to be halfway there already. I’ll give them the first 3 years of ramp up, but 2014 was patch 1.0 and a fair benchmark for the true “beginning”. I don’t see this being done in another 10 years.
I have literally given up on this game. After spending four grand I never play it, watch any media about it or visit their website. This is honestly the first video I've watched about it in a very long time. I'll come back in 20 years when they're 9 billion dollars in is still haven't finished.
@@kybalionking9966 how do you think CIG able to sustain their development with 1000 people working? It's because their "players" are spending thousands of dollars buying "pledges."
This is like watching someone cover the pros and cons of heroin. Everyone who’s NOT a heroin addict knows that there ARE NO pros to heroin. The same can be said for people who haven’t put any money into Star Citizen. If you’re on the outside looking in, this game is a blatant scam meant to take in as much money as possible before it’s inevitably abandoned. If you’re one of the unfortunate souls who’s put money into this game, it’s very likely that the sunk cost fallacy has its hooks too deep into you for you to ever come out of it alive. Watching people still defend this game is EXACTLY the same as watching an interview with one of those elderly people who’s fallen for a Nigerian romance scam. The person they’ve fallen in love with doesn’t exist, and they aren’t trapped overseas. They’re a business meant to take advantage of unsuspecting people’s hope, by constantly stringing them along with “just a little more money” before they’re finally able to meet them. Of course that day never comes, but it doesn’t matter to the scammer because they’ve already drained their entire bank account. I used to think Star Citizen fans were just morons, but I’ve come to realize this game preys on the same psychological vulnerabilities as hard drugs and gambling. Just know that if you’re someone who’s still on board with this game, you’re indistinguishable from a mumbling, insane crack head on the side of the road screaming nonsense at everyone who passes by. Everyone in the word except for YOU can see the obvious truth. I would wish you the best of luck breaking free from your addiction, but I already know that you’ll defend this scam until you’re completely broke and you have nothing left for it to take from you.
I remember building lego with my best friend and building a toy train line with him and building in his sandpit. We would get in to a groove and these projects were all we wanted to do and we’d even hide from our Mums when they’d call us for dinner or when it was time to go home. These guys are living the dream. Endlessly building systems together day after day, months after month for years. Why would they want to stop that? But they WOULD have to stop that. To do the extremely stressful and incredibly difficult task of actually boxing and finishing a game they need to fix goals and stop endlessly building. What and incredibly hard job that’s going to be but how joyous it is to just keep playing together forever. But it’s time and they need an adult to tell them to come inside, get cleaned up and finish their homework. The management must clearly be gifted artists but they aren’t business adults. Chris needs to step down and they need to put someone in place who turns the ship around and heads it towards the completion of at least the campaign. Otherwise it will not “end up being” anything except what it is now. An endless proving ground for the most cutting edge systems in the world and a playpen for the man-children who make it.
As much as I might dislike how often games get rushed out for release too early, I have to admit that there IS a need for someone to be there to make sure that things stay on schedule. Otherwise you end up with a situation where the game just doesn't get released because the devs get lost in continuing to chase down the different ideas that they have.
Nah dude, they aren't having fun. It's a hellish process. I remember when they picked an engine which didn't have good networking in it. So they tried coding it in and it was super messy, didn't work with the event system. So they had to change engines. How much of a muppet do you have to be to pick an engine without networking? The leadership of this project are on drugs, worse amateurs than most junior devs. Their job is fixing nonsensical garbage of the previous devs, it's a horrible job.
Software developer speaking: The LEGO analogy is the problem. Software isn't a LEGO kit. There is no manual. Try this modification: You and your friend would build sand castles, bigger and bigger. Sometimes they crumble. Sometimes someone kicks it over. Sometimes a design doesn't come out right so you rebuild a part. When will you be done? The answer is... There is no "done". You have to mutually agree to a finish line. Chris doesn't have a finish line. The finish line is when he's dead so he doesn't have to pay bills anymore.
That's a really unintelligent take. This is his career, in what universe is the last 4 years of his life a waste? You only think it's a digital cash grab because you got your opinion from the Internet at large which is way more of a waste.
“Optimistic advertising from devs” what an unbelievably polite way of describing lying about a products progress to sell images of ships for real money and copy’s of the game.
As a mostly-outside observer who's hugely interested in this game becoming a reality.... Or at least I was like 10-12 years ago, even the more realistic folks in this community really sound like battered wives. It's pretty amazing how many people still hold out hope for this... tech demo? Art project? I don't even know what to call it at this point. I think the best thing that could happen is they run out of money and have to sell all their work to a real studio.
Yeah. tomato here is the kind who would even manage to give a "balanced" take on the sinking of the Titanic. The creativity in bs-ing is admirable, in a way.
Even though I might not completley agree on some of your points, your presentation is very well put together, Intellegent and fair. I’m very impressed with this episode.
Schrödinger's game, as long as you don't see an update, the project is both alive and dead. I wish I gave a shit. I’ll give the game this, I’m excited to watch an eight hour RU-vid retrospective on the constant delays and money laundering.
Some of the other creators talk about being frustrated with the state of the game as it is and don't care about the development as much. But I really vibe with your approach of being really interested in the story of the development, in how things turned out and the twists and turns in the journey. It really fascinates me too. Thanks for your continued deep dives.
One of the best aspects of it, of people were able to see something like this for a major Hollywood feature film, it would be seen as unprecedented. Here we have it with the equivalent in another industry. It's a cool real-time study!
This game has been in development for a decade or more. No one who purchased ships for $20K or just paid for the game will ever see the game and items they bought. Star Citizen is a scam. You can see the exact same thing in scam real-estate projects. Massive buildings, yes they start to build, yes some progress is made. But eventually when people stop investing, so does the work. Anyone who paid money for something digital in this mess has lost that money. Forever. We now see Starfield about to go live. Will it have all the features of what Star Citizen will supposedly have? Hell no, but HELLO!!! It's a real game, where you can spend hundreds of hours for $70.00. I prefer to play a real game that can be added to over time by the developers and modders than a $20K digital spaceship that you'll never see. Wake up, if it looks like a scam, smells like a scam and sucks in money like a scam, it's a scam.
I'm totally new to this, but doesn't the level of progress recently announced about Squadron 42 also mean that many of the Star Citizen systems are near workable completion?
Hey, the ride is the game. Nothing feels sweeter then actually completing a mission in spite of the growing pains. Not falling through a planet ✔️ Not getting killed by a lift ✔️ Not hitting an invisible asteroid✔️ Box delivery goes smoothly✔️ Not getting a 30k until after your mission is complete or resources transferred✔️ And my personal favorite, Not having your helmet glitch and suffocate in space🤐✔️ I love this Alpha of an Alpha👍
I've been telling ppl that ship naming will eventually expand to all ships but is currently only available for few as it's one of those things that CIG wanted to test out and expand later, only to get laughed at and told that doesn't make any sense... Excellent content as always. Keep it up buddy 🤝
People also don't understand, why features can be broken again and again, when they worked in the past; or why features would be needed to be removed in one build, just to get implemented again in the future. You can only understand this, if you have any interest of learing a tiny bit of the software, code, game engine topic. If you're thinking in terms of: "LOL i have milk butter eggs sugar flour baking powder and salt it shouldnt be too hard to make pancakes LOL", you will have a hard time to say the least ;)
750mil later you cant name a ship... I would start wondering, it's all honesty not that complicated and if that can break your code you are fucked, but you guys keep dreaming. Maybe after another 750mil and 10y you get the last laugh.
@@contris1 not adding new stuff would mean we wouldn't have the abitility to give certain players access to our ship, it would mean we couldn't allow our friends to sell our cargo, it would mean there'd be no way to repair your ship without going back to a space station, there'd be no easy way to stack items in the inventory, space ships would have no way of getting disabled they would just be destroyed, and on and on. The features they are adding are what is supposed to make the game, which sucks cause it HAS taken so long. But Mark is right, beta is a ways away, cause they have a lot of work ahead of them.
People have to understand that 2012 pitch was just a cobbled together tech demo made buy a handful of guys. Real development took off in 2014. That's a mere 9 years which is nothing for a project of this magnitude. I have been around since 2013 and boy, it was a ride. Arena Commander was literally unplayable for a couple of years, but we still had fun in the PU and Jumptown 1.0 was a blast. We did Levski bloackdes and had pilots pay via beacons since moneytransfer wasn't in yet. And yesterday we were holding a bridge of a boarded Constellation against its crew , who were protecting their cargo and i realized once more: i already got everything i pledged for back in the day. Star Citizen forever.
I love Star Citizen. Maybe the secret is that- I have never expected Star Citizen to be completed. Ever. I see Star Citizen as a cathedral. It takes multiple generations to complete a cathedral: they are generational projects. What I do is check in with the game every now and then, to see how it is doing. I am always impressed with what they are doing. Carry on, Star Citizen!
Wow, the message at the end gave me goosebumps, as I did not expect to hear it. To basically stop forcing yourself to play it, and rather wait for the state of the game you wish for. Most people these days, buy have a look, drop it and never look back because it was a bad experience relativ to the expectations, loosing the sight for that one moment you are talking about, that people should focus on. Great video! Thanks
@@SpaceTomato The average GTA fan is 15 to 20 years younger than the average Wing Commander fan though, I dare to assume. Also, there is GTA V, for the time being.. And people haven't made payments into GTA IV 12 years ago
@@catriona_drummond but once GTA 5 was done, many folks only wanted to play GTA 6. Once the first Avatar came out, many folks only wanted to see Avatar 2. Same goes for Elder Scrolls 6. A ton of people die waiting for these games.
I like this direction you’ve taken. The more reporting, analytical, bigger picture, cadence and different perspectives presented in a calm and intriguing tone is making this channel standout and your work shine
I must say this is an honest and candid take on SC which really will resonate with newer players and long-time veterans alike. Thanks for being real with us! 21896
When a game charged thousands to buy a ship for a game with real money that was years away from completion, I knew it was a scam. And that was six years ago. I have had mostly passing interest since.
I have not played the game for a while but I still daydream about my fav ships flying about exploring the games potential. Perhaps as I discover the secret to eternal life I will get to see it all at the tender age of 21896
Yeah, I gave up worrying about it years ago. I was there at the very beginning and it became clear nothing was going to happen fast. Back then I was super frustrated but over the last decade I've grown more to realize that everything worth doing takes a long ass time. I let it go and I'm totally at peace with it. I come back every now and then and I always see meaningful progress. It's plainly not a scam so all I have to do is keep busy until it looks like its ready for me. Pretty easy really, I got a son I should be playing lego with anyway. When he's tired of that then maybe we'll look up to the stars together.
I've followed Star Citizen for 11 years now, having obtained my Golden Ticket, Colonel package and even the metal badge back in 2012. Seeing the game still in alpha, barely playable, and Squadron 42 nowhere in sight after over a decade is appalling. I get that development is hard, but it can't be an excuse at this point. As long as feature creep (or feature scope creep) and terrible project management are in the picture, Star Citizen will remain stuck in development for the foreseeable future. But one could even say the "forever in development" concept is practically the business model at this point: as long as funding continues, the game provides jobs and makes money. And thanks to ToS legalese changes over the years, RSI owes its patrons effectively nothing. Ultimately, the cold hard truth is that there's no motivation, no obligation to actually reach the finish line. Certainly not financially. As long as the cash cow keeps on giving, the game could be another 10 years in alpha, 10 more in beta, still a mess, but still making money. And if the cow ever shows signs of drying up, which I predict happening in less than a decade, RSI can cut their losses, pretend whatever they dump on the public is 1.0, shut everything down, and get away with it scot free. Who knows, I may be wrong. But it'll be my yet-unborn children the ones to tell me, via holo-call from their space college dorm quarters.
Had some friends interested on SC. "Wait for a free week, then we can do some shit around the verse, then you decide whether or not you pledge into it. And by the way, even if it goes good there's nothing keeping a bad update to make it unplayable". This is more or less what I tell my friends.
The engine was complete when they purchased the rights to use it. All they did was make tools it's no different then any other company to license an engine
I don’t plan on playing this “game” again until/if it reaches beta. Not a Tarkov style “beta” but a feature complete package where they’re ironing out issues and game balance. At that point I feel like my feedback is valuable and the experience prior to release will actually be useful. Bless you for your dedication.
Very thankful for your updates! I stopped playing about four years ago. I decided back in 2019 to jump back in when the game comes out of beta. Sadly, that has not happened and doesn't look like it will anytime soon. I'm convinced that SC would have benefited with a publisher forcing the game to a schedule. A completed game lacking features is better than a feature sandbox with no game (IMHO).
Imagine a game, two actually, being in developement for over a decade and not even having a feature complete working engine, because the technical demands for its core features are so avantgarde, over-ambitious and keep constantly climbing. And imagine people keeping paying big money for it all for naught but concepts and promises despite having nothing to show for but a slowly expanding glorified Alpha tech demo. And the single player campaign of Squadron 42, lacking most of the advanced online components, should also have been ready and released years ago already by any reasonable standards, yet it isn't with no definitive date given. No other AAA developer, under any circumstances, could have pulled something similar off. If that isn't the biggest red flag, i don't know what is.
Great video (as always). Haven't played but 2 times in 10 years for about 2 months each. It keeps me excited, wowed, and hopeful without the extreme frustrations that frequent play brings. Sort of feel sorry for the folks playing regularly. I would imagine it's like watching countless trailers to a movie. Seeing the movie later would be such a shoulder shrug. So, good advice you're giving!
Chris Roberts is like Peter Molyneux, without someone there with the willingness AND the ability to tell him "NO," the chances of a project reaching completion on time, within budget, and without scope creep are slim to none. With Chris in charge of everything, it was a foregone conclusion that chances of failure were almost certain. What I didn't expect was the nostalgic power of Wing Commander to attract so many whales to keep Chris swimming in money for so long.
I love the game and tell all my friends about it. I play regularly and have invested a lot. That being said, I have been a part of 2 startups, and served as the head of product and head of technology. Building a company is hard - but not *that* hard. CIG makes it harder than it has to be.
I've backed SC since it was announced in 2012 and this is a pretty good primer for people who aren't in-the-loop. I don't think the game is a total scam or perfect sim but it is somewhere in between. The fact that we are still in alpha and only in the first out of 100 star systems a decade into development is a real smack in the face but the gameplay we currently have along with what's in development is very impressive. I really recommend having another game or games to play and then periodically checking in on SC when big patches come out. Trying to make SC your main game is just too frustrating at the moment.
Honestly, I still think the 100 systems is reachable. However a process has to be made and a template created to get there. If Pyro works then every subsequent system will follow that same method of creation cutting down processing time by half.
You know, when you have to state your sentence as "I do not think the game is a total scam...", that is huge red flag about state of the game development
@@iglidor That's the thing, they don't realize it even now haha. To most backers or people somewhat invested in this, this timeframe is completely normal, I mean if they cant see how scammy these people have been by now, they never will. They force themselves into believing that this is normal.
I spent over 2 years creating tutorials and similar videos for this game on my other channel. And I have finally come to the realization about 9 months ago that I no longer want to work on or be a part of this project. Too much time spent, money invested, and expectations unmet. Issues with the company. Toxicity in the community. There were fewer and fewer positives as time went on and finally, those positives were so grossly outnumbered by the negatives that I decided to call it and never go back. This isn’t a game in my opinion. It’s an incredibly well managed marketing campaign that has generated hundreds of millions but without actually delivering a product worth all the money and hype.
I appreciate the content you put out Tomato, you keep us up to date on a weekly basis. I backed the project in 2013 and have been following the development on a weekly/monthly basis and I can say your channel is the most concise and has the best put together videos out there. Keep up the good work!!
I was just thinking about this the other day. I backed the game in 2014, since then i have grown up and my life situation has completly changed--i have completly changed . I dont even know if i will still be intereseted in or have the same amount of excitement and time to even play the game when it finally releases.
I learned that CIG is not truthful and occasionally lies about development. Their goal is to build a tech studio to sell to the highest bidder later. Secondary goal is to make a game.
I've been with the project since late December of 2013. Im here for the project to go for the best damn universe sim never before seen, with an intent to give me the game of my life. I've seen massive progress since 2013, but when it comes to portions of the community...well, I dont know; most of the time - really, the vast majority of the time - I enjoy both the gameplay and the journey. When SC doesnt work well enough to test/play, I move over to other things. I would robustly recommend doing that to content creators and testers/supporters of the project. I hope that the project accommodates zero compromise to the fullest, most complete vision reflected somewhat in the stretch goals.
This is a Chris Roberts problem, he's always been like that and quite a few years ago it became impossible toever actually being released because the second it gets released RSI effectively states "this is what you got for your money" and people crash from their hype, hopes and dreams. And then the lawsuits start.
Good point: they add systems and mechanics just to have them in in some way, not spend time to polish them since they require large rework later anyhow.
I discovered your channel while browsing for Starfield lol! while I don't think I'll ever play SC, I still enjoy watching the content you put out. I hope you can cover SF as well as you've covered SC even if it's just for a little while after the game releases. Thanks for the content!
Great video! I remember hearing about Star Citizen like 5 years ago. Great to hear there is still so much passion and the details of everything look very exciting! I'll check back every couple years on this game xD
@@Uncanny_Mountain do you not remember early minecraft? they hid nothing and released builds nightly for people who were early alpha players, regardless of if a feature was done or even worked correctly.
Loved the pacing, balance of information and subtle humor & blend of relevant facts with how realistic you were on how optimistic they are. After having pledged in 2020 and a wee bit over $1k in, I know when to play for fun with friends, relax on my own, or stay away for the dreaded 21896 or 30000 errors, or even worse-back to back event and ship sales to try and make up for their tech debt. Keep it up, Tomato!
This was an incredible video @Space Tomato! Been a backer since 2016. Played off and on throughout the years. Each year I come back the game gets better after every major patch. It really is a unique semi-transparent project like Star Citizen. Looking forward to watching more of your vids!
I think the main problem of Star Citizen is, that they have no real incentive to "finish" the game. When you are a development studio under a publisher, you have accountability and deadlines, even if they get shifted often times. But Star Citizens' business model basically incentivices them to do feature creep and never finish the game. As long as people continue to buy starships, they are funded. People are not buying a finish product, they invest money to be part of a perpetual beta test. That doesn't mean to detract from the results they have achieved in the meantime, which are oftentimes quite impressive. But there is absolutely zero incentive to ever deliver a finished product for them. They don't have investors holding them accountable, the top managment doesn't have an interest to finish the game, the business model works perfectly fine without the need for a finished product for an influx of cash.
Personally, I started playing the game for what it is NOW, not the promises made. But I also cannot deny that often dreaming about imagined future gameplay is more fun than actually playing the game. But that imagining wouldnt be possible without the work that has already been put into the game and continues to be on a daily basis. 21896
Or: Why preproduction is so important - don't produce content if your (core) systems are (mostly) not done yet. The fact that they can F up this bad and still keep running is a testament of how much money they got. Really the result of their business model. If the industry was working correctly they wouldn't have to produce content to sell to you way in advance.
They seem to have a lot of good ideas, but their ideas never seem to work as intended. Instead of focusing on a fix, they seem to beg for more money and move on to the next idea. 10+ years of development. Hundreds of millions of unearned money raked in from backers. Thats unacceptable. Star citizen feels like nothing more than a cash grab. Feels like a huge FAILURE
What a wonderfully balanced review of the trials and tribulations of being both a backer and a developer (I'm sure) of Star Citizen. Great work Tomato! 👍
"We're along for the ride." Dude, you're so right about that. We're being taken for a ride; just not in the optimistic way you're describing. At this point, they just want people engaged and keep buying their ships. This is a scam, plain and simple. They KNOW they're better off NOT releasing the game at all.
Oh? So all the tech/content being developed and implemented is just to keep people engaged and wanting to support the project? Isn't that how game development works? What makes this a scam?
@@Synthmilk Yeah, if they put in half the effort in actually finishing the game than what they're putting in making new ships....c'mon, man, it's pretty obvious.
@@Blackwingk No, it's not obvious at all, since only about 50 employees company wide are dedicated to making ships, and that leaves 550+ working on everything else. So, how would putting half the effort of making ships towards finishing the game, help significantly? That's only adding 25 people to the 550+, and you're assuming those people would be inherently useful to 100% of their talents in a different role.
Original backer here after 11 years what we got is pretty disgraceful. New buyers beware this game will probably get feature creeped for at least another 10 years
They don’t tell you it’ll never be released. Sorry man, I’ve been following this slow moving train-wreck for 11 years… I’m done. You’re an amazing content creator…would love to see you expand into more viable projects. In the end, you’re not going to wanna be solely-attached to this when it all comes crashing down. 5 years ago, I would have read what I just wrote and argued with myself…I was a fanboy. Today? I’m awake. SC is the impossible dream…we dared to dream it, but now it’s time to wake up. Because like you said man, “the game isn’t going anywhere.”
Anyone else notice that the game is waiting on Squadron 42? not what u think i mean, Star Citizen is being held back by 42. I think its basically because there is features or things that they want to be secret to be released. I get we can track it, but something in my gut tells me alot of the legacy stuff we tested already, stress tested them. They implamentation is already in 42. several things we test or complaining thast needs to be fixed was tested and is now ready for launch they just hold it back until 42 because its a addition to something they havent introduced yet to SC. SO i think everyone thats waiting for SC to be great is gonna be in a big shock.
Even knowing where they wanna go, the constant alterations and rebuilds make me think they don't have an ending target. Its "early" to say it, but it seems like they even don't know where they're going, only the path.
Why would they continue working on the game when their current business model has brought in $500 million. Anyone contributing to the garbage is to blame.
I can't even consistently water my plants every week for 3 months lmao. I lost interest in this game very early and never thought about it again so I'm glad the algorithm recommend this video to me.
You have to realise they're not in this to finish a game. Because then they would be out of work. They're in this to have work. And not just "any" work. But to have a job working on the vision of the best game ever. What developer wouldn't want to work on a project like that? They're not the players. The players want a game, finished, that they can play. In other words: it's not about the end destination for them, it's about the journey. If it was about finishing the project they would have deadlines and work towards them. That is how any project is done. But they don't WANT to finish the project. Because it is their dream project. To actually finish it, would be to end the dream (for them).
While I agree with most of this, I would like to call attention to Digital Extremes and Warframe. They have had regular Devstreams every week for 6 or 7 years now, showcasing only things that actually make it into the game, and setting real expectations for A) what it will look and play like when finished and B) when players can expect that. They've missed a couple big dates, but when they do, they always go into great detail about why and how they'll avoid over promising things in the future, and it works - they really don't make the same mistakes twice. CIG could learn a thing or two from DE, not so much about game development as communication. Don't make promises you can't keep. (Or things that you know players will likely misconstrue as a promise, which is functionally the same thing.) Apologize and show humility when you miss a deadline or you deliver a broken feature, because you understand that your players' time is a valuable commodity and you SHOULD feel bad for wasting it. Basics like this are things that a large chunk of the industry understand, but they seem to fly right over CIG's head. If they could fix THIS, their communication problem, I think we'd all be a lot more understanding of their development woes. Or in short, never, EVER utter the phrase "if we polished what we have now it would already be the best damn space game ever." No, it wouldn't, but the arrogance of that statement is a much larger problem than the accuracy of it. Don't be that guy, CIG.
