The exact difference at double the power is 3dB, by mathematical definition. 3dB is considered a noticeable difference by most listeners, but isn't perceived as twice as loud by human hearing. (I'm an electrical engineer)
I don't remember the ratio but I do know it's not linear as you go up in watts. A lot of people seem to believe doubling the watts doubles volume though. To triple the volume of 50w wouldn't it end up taking something ridiculous like 5000 watts?
Not wrong mathematically but something else to consider is that most tube amp "wattage" ratings are just rounded to numbers like 50 or 100 for simplicity or marketing or whatever. Depends on tube type and components of course but generally they run higher.
@@competetodefeat4610 To go from 50 watts to a 10dB sound increase ( which is double the perceived loudness) would take 500 watts. Each doubling of power increases the sound level by 3dB.
I love the "Holy Grail" attitude to 100w Marshalls these days. When I started playing on the Isle of Wight in the '70s, that (or similar) was the basic expected rig for most of the successful local bands - with full, not half stacks of speakers. I was still in my high school band when we were booked to open a local festival, and the headliners invited us out to their rehearsal space ahead of time to play through the rig we'd have on the day. It was basically a barn in the middle of nowhere packed to the rafters with Marshall 100w stacks. Dauntingly loud (and it highlighted every cock-up) - but absolute heaven! All these years later, I've never found anything to match the pure visceral power of that experience.
That sounds cool The best comparison I have is playing bass at church, where I’m basically playing ten 18” subwoofers. Pretty cool when I can dig in and have fun!
I remember those days. Bars had larger stages, and Marshall stacks were the norm for gigging guitarist. I remember the giant Altec Lansing PA speakers. Today, they cram bands in a little corner, and they play with minimal gear. There's something missing in the sound.
@@qua7771 agreed, rock music should be loud and a visceral experience. Luckily for Punk, hardcore and metal shows a lot of times you can get away with a louder rig especially at venues where the PA sucks and the guitar and bass have to be loud and fend for themselves. Some PA systems can barely deal with drums and vocals, and sometimes the band provides their own PA and all the bands basically share it.
I just did the Marshall Factory Tour in Milton Keynes, UK some days ago. They put a lot of pride in their amps. Even the non-HW-stuff. All these people at Marshall were so nice to us. I really feel proud to use their products after seeing, how they are made :)
I am 77 and played in original material only for all these years and have since 71, I always prefered a Marshall JMP 50. Yes I had to sell them between bands and from jumping back and forth over the pond for airfare, lol. So I have had 3 over the years. I got lucky they are all a shade different but all were great. I did use a 100 watt half stack in early 71 but it was too, too loud. The 50 is bang on perfect. That said in the last few years I had use an attinuator in small clubs as DB police were on to me, lol. I am gretful for your excelent demo of Daves. It really seems the way to go as my amp may soon be forced to retire.
According to Tom Bukovac, you're absolutely correct about the 100 w amp's clean character. In his rig rundown with Bollinger (which i'm sure you've watched & loved), though he was discussing his 100 w Marshall Super Bass (with the tranny mod he mentioned) - not the same Marshall, but the same aspect of clean HR AND the beauty of the cleans, which he said would rival any Fender clean one could ever want. Your decibel-meter display really helped to bring that point home. This is a very interesting video, and presented in your typical lucid, informative, unbiased way. Good work Rhett.
Yeah the 800 is for me, the last of the true Marshalls. 50 watters sound awesome on either channel. I wish the 2nd channel was a tad louder though. It seems a radical change from channel 1. I had a loner 50/800 for a gig and really wanted to use the channel 2 with pedals but it wouldn't have been enough for the room. I thought it odd that a 50w Marshall would need channel 1 to get loud enough. Anyway it sounded great on either channel.
Yup - I have a red one with matching straight front 4x12 with 2 greenback H magnet speakers and 2 blackback M magnets . I still have the receipt for the head from the Marshall factory where it was special order for me with the coloured Tolex. Pretty sure it cost about £250. Still running it's original filter caps too . Every time I've tried a plexi it's been a bit meh by comparison.
I bought a 100 Watt Vintage Modern almost 20 years ago thinking I needed something that large. One of the silliest decisions I've ever made. I'll never sell it though. Thank goodness for reactive load attenuators.
I have the same cab with a 1987 marshall plexie and its loud but there is nothing like it when you crank it and your right you don't need any pedals just work the volume knob. When I bought this amp my older brother came over to try it he play some jimi on it stop and looked over at me and said with a huge smile this is the sound I have searched for my whole life ! I think that says it all. If you have never owned one you owe to yourself to Experience it!😊
100% correct. My JTM 45 had every modern Blues/Rock tone - think Allman Brothers at Fillmore live. All the tone at your volume control. It was my introduction to the world of tube compression. Pedal wise… certainly my Vox Tonebender and (Thomas Organ) Vox Wah were right at home. While the 50w was ABB. The 100w was Band of Gypsy’s. Speaking of BOG I believe initially Hendrix used the treble channel. We talk about the “thump on the chest” from the Super Lead - the 50plexi could give you a good punch in the gut! Excellent presentation Rhett!
I'm a les Paul guy but no other amp makes me want a strat more than the sound of one through a plexi. This was an awesome video man. 2024 and it's still the best of the best.
As others have stated, the difference between 50w and 100w is 3db's. However, the watt/DBs relationship is not linear, or at least the perceived difference isn't. A 3bd increase from 80dbs is very little. Whereas a 3db increase when you're already at say 120dbs is huge. For the most part, when you get to higher wattage amps, what you're really getting is more headroom, not more volume
When Jim Marshall brought out these 100watt monsters there was a huge need for very loud amps, as players needed to be herd and the PA systems were very limited, used just for mics. I recon most amps up to 50 watt can handle any situation these days, and also stage volume with a pushed 100 watt amp can really damage your hearing
You are correct, but with that some people in my opinion are missing the upshot here. Because yes, 100Watt amp can damage your hearing, but also, with the advent of in-ear monitors you can stand in front of an amp (or better yet have it side-wash the stage) and have it loud enough for all the feel, but ALSO have a mic on in piped into in-ear monitors in to hear the clarity and protect your hearing. It's truly the best of both worlds!
Hats off for you Rhett, I barely created any video, but by my experience as class facilitator, your videos always hits home. Clear framework explained at first and its breakdown, section by section video parts, and then conclusion at the end. Just similar to how a training would be delivered in a class. Great work, man.
I have a 72’ 50 watt jmp and a 73’ 100 watt super lead. They both sound different from each other, with the same settings, cab and guitar. They both are bone stock with zero mods. From my experience the main difference is the headroom, the 100w is just crushing. The other thing that I noticed is how fast the valves open on the 100w, past about 5 or 6 it doesn’t get any louder, the tone starts to change some. The valves on the 50w open slowly and it doesn’t quite peel skin. Cool vid.
Gotta say, the 100watt Marshall sounded way more open and mid forward. The 50watt sounded great too, but compared to the Marshall it sounded shrill and scooped in the mids to my ear
From my experience, when plugged in a 4x12" cabinet, the 100 watt Marshall heads are not that much louder than the Marshall 50 watt heads but the 100 watts models somehow sound bigger. A friend of mine who repairs and mods these Marshall heads said it's like comparing Andrea Bocelli to Luciano Pavarotti. Both are great opera tenor singers, but one sounds "bigger" than the other. In the end it's a matter of taste. Both are great amps!
i know this is about the amps, and they sound killer. but dude, that SG Jr sounds so good. there’s something so ‘acoustic’ about a good Jr, and it’s so apparent in the examples in this video. sounds so good.
Back in the day, one of the best sounding rigs I have ever heard was a 50 watt Laney tube head ran through a tall 4 12 Ampeg cab. Had way more punch. Was less ear splitting than a 100 Marshal.
You've just explained why Yngwie is so phenomenal a player. Nothing to hide behind, unforgiving. A true test of your technique. And a 100W head is all he plays through.
That's true, and the first time you just hate playing it, but in reality you hate your technique. The more you play it the better. I really love the neck single coil stacked, or a dual rail like the pro track, to soloing, you can add some overdrive or comp for a little sustain but just an inch...
He might be a good guitar player, but he showed his ego in a 90s guitar magazine interview (which one I can't remember) in which he was played solos by all kinds of popular lead guitar players and he trashed... every... single... one... most of which are still famous today as really good guitar players... So I've never had the bandwidth to overcome his mouth.
@@timcobb1752agree. so many people shit on players that don’t play blazing scale runs, outside the scale, or other complexities. Playing melodically and hitting chord tones over the actual chords beneath is seen as too easy although it’s memorable and sounds better (in my opinion) just because something is hard doesn’t mean it’s good. If you can get your point across in one sentence there’s no need to write four.
You've just summed up why I regretted buying a 100W Marshall combo over a 50W when I was gigging many years ago. The 100W was just too big, and too loud for what I needed, and it never got passed about 4-5 on the volume knob. All these years later, I keep telling myself I should've bought that 50W amp, it just a lot sounded better! Time moves on, and today I use a Kemper profiler, which is a lot, lot, lighter than lugging a 100W Marshall combo about. And, my favourite profile? A profile of a legendary 1969, Marshall 1987, 50W Marshall Plexi. It's an amp that has been passed around session musicians from Nashville to L.A., and back again. There's just something about the amp, all I know is that it just sounds wonderful.
Either one is plenty loud to gig with however if you have a 50-watt Marshall and are playing with someone with a 100-watt Marshall and they turn up you will see right away how much louder 100 watts is. It is VERY noticeable when they are played side by side. Having said that I have a 100-watt Marshall Super Lead and I absolutely never play it because to get it where it sounds good it is ridiculously loud. I also have a DSL 40 and I love it (and I play it usually on the 20-watt setting turned up to about 4)
I have a solid state Crate SPA 200. Cab is 4x12 celestions. Stereo. Greenback and 75 watter on left and Legend 30 w 75 watter under it on right. 30 band stereo eq in rack. I use multi effects and other stomps. I was in a studio next to a big Mesa Boogie. My rig sounded just as good even the engineer was stumped. Thank you Rhet. Im a fan, bro.
I have a 50 watt 1970 Marshall. With the polarity switch. Had it since 1972. Did an A&B with my bass player's 200 watt Marshall Major. The 50 is tighter, distorts quicker. I love the 50 for cleans. IMO, it depends on speakers. Got mine with the 8-10 cab. Monster to gig with but very tight. Traded it for a Marshall 4-14 in the late 70's. 12's definitely more open. I NEVER use over drive. The guitar volume knob is king.
There used to be an old trick on a 100W head, take out 2 of the power tubes and leave a space in-between them. Both amps are ear splitting. Great video.
Great video! I think most of the difference in overdrive characteristic of 50W and 100W comes from amount of NFB. Assuming the value of NFB resistors are the same, 100W will have about 40% more NFB which makes 100W cleaner up to a certain point.
It’s advised to use a Power Station anyway. The Marshall + PS combo can be had for the same price as the Plex, depending on where you live. Versatility goes through the roof: total volume control + proper effects loop.
Well done! Explains a great deal about the live concert tones of the early rock/hard rock pioneers--Cream era EC, Jeff Beck Group, Hendrix, Page, et al.--that dynamic control, the palette of clean/clean w/ hair, going into flat out overdrive...all from the guitar & without effects (excepting wah, echo, early modulation gear, and of course Hendrix's use of the Fuzz Face, which gave him even more tones to work with). Also exemplifies why so many of those players tended to favor humbucker equipped guitars--increased natural overdrive, lower noise floor, feedback control, etc. Salute!
In Early 90's I toured with a band and had a metal zone going through a 100W superbass, 2 x 4 by 12s. Surprised still have hearing, insane, only ever played this rig live, I still have a Marshall combo, but mainly use a Katana 100 these days. Thing I love about the old Marshalls is sensitivity, every nuance captured, as you pointed out, really nice clean Amps used correctly.
I like the Friedman because of what sounds like, better compression stability. It also sounds "warmer". It's almost like an "any venue/gig" amp that won't be too overwhelming, but will have plenty to push if needed. Great showcase, Rhett.
instantly liked the 100w so much more. there's more "room" in the sound. the Friedman sounded boxed-in by comparison. I had an immediate and strong response, which I was not expecting. question: with all those mics, did you have issues with phase while recording? everything sounds terrific!
I have a 4X12 Marshall cab and it's more than enough sound in a medium to large sized bar. I haven't had the pleasure of throwing a 100W tube head on it yet but it still sounds really nice. 😎
I've been a fender clean amp guy my whole life. Recently, I've been drawn to that greenback overdrive sound that these circuits produce. The 50 is perfect. Love the Hendrix cleans and then the legendary greenback over drive. You just have to have both fender and marshall amps in your life lol.
I recently picked up the Friedman Plexi, it is a wonderful amp, I have only gigged once and as I have recently moved it is still in it’s box. I have to say that I preferred the tones from the Marshall in this video, I have owned original Marshall amps from that era, a super bass, a plexi and a small box 50 from the 70’s to name a few. This makes me want another 100, oh well. Well done video, thanks.
I’ve been waiting for some one to do this exact comparison for years great job Rhett. I’ll make sure to start checking out more of your work on the channel this was excellent.
If you're looking to make your 100w feel more like a 50w, try bringing the amp to a tech and ask them to reduce the screens filtering (or if you know how to solder AND know how to work safely in high voltage capacitive circuits, you could of course do it yourself). Cutting filtering at the phase inverter to 50uf or lower will also contribute, but not as much as the screens. Some of the difference comes down to the difference in the transformers, but you can make the 100w power supply work harder more like a 50w by cutting filtering. Really enjoyed the video, especially with this level of sound quality!
They sound similar but the Marshall is noticeably less muddy and has better midrange bite aking to "chug". If I was forced to choose I would choose the Marshall. I listened using planar magnetic headphones on a powerful headphone rig so ok transparent reproduction :)
I choose JTM45, which is 30 watts. It helps too that I already have this amp :D But also because it has a tube rectifier. For whatever reason, I discovered I like playing through amps with the tube recto.
This mirrors my experience with old school tube amps. And then there were HiWatt / Sound City amps which were even louder. The extra wattage is more about head room. Bought a Marshall 50 Watt Origin amp for about 24 hours before my wife said h@ll no. So I ended up with a Boss Nextone Special 80 Watt. There'sa lot to be said for power scalability. A 20-30 Watt tube amp is usually plenty loud for most people. I've even heard surprising results with tiny 1 Watt amps.
Back in my band days, we were convinced that we had to have the loudest amps as possible. We both played 100watt heads through 4x12 cabs, even in the smallest of clubs and at one point the other guitarist had two 4x12 cabs. Volume was king, or so we thought. We befriended another band from Kentucky and we would drool over how good their guitarist sounded. We were floored when he told us that his live rig was some small little 30 watt head and a 2x12 cab that he would crank to the moon. We just assumed he was running a 100 watt rig like us because his 30 watt head was easily just as loud in those small little clubs. It was an ‘a-ha’ moment for me and the fact that I could only crank my 100watt head to 5 or 6 without destroying my ears now made sense. Plus, his smaller rig was way easier to load-in or out.
This is a really good comparison. With how there can so much variability with playing each riff, i wouldve liked to see you utilizing a reamp box and running the exact same thing through both amps.
I agree with you on the 50 watt is more usable and versatile. I've owned for 50 + years a 1969 JMP Super 100 Tremolo and JMP 1976 Master volume 50 watt top & 50 watt combo. The 100 watt moves much more air and have used it on tours, Large ballrooms, clubs & Festivals where it could be turned up ( 1973 - 1976) The other 50 watt were used(1973 - 2010 ) until I down sized my rig. The 100 sound much different than 50 's . The 50 are controllable were the 100 watt is a force of Nature.
Oh hey, this is actually something I have done myself!! I have a '79 JMP Mark II 100 watt master lead, 2203 circuit. My friend bought an early 80s JCM800 50 watt, 2204 model. Yeah there are a few differences between the overall JMP and JCM, but the circuit is quite similar. We A/B'd them through the same cab, using the same guitars. The long and short of it, he ended up being a bit jealous, and ended up borrowing my amp a few times for recording (it really did sound that much better). Part of that is the output transformer though, the JMP series has a much larger OT than the JCM even if you compare the same circuit, 2203 vs 2203.
The master volume on the JMP also makes it easier to use than a Plexi. Everyone always talks about how great the Plexis are, but for me, they are not that usable. My 100 watter with the master volume on the other hand is one of the nicest sounding amps I have ever played through.
Reminds me my early 80s metal days when I was rehearsing in a medium-sized room with each guitarist pushing a full 100W stack (JMP100 for me, JCM100 for the lead guitarist) , the singer (guitarist too) a "little" 50W stack and the bassist a 100W stack too. Without any ear protection of course. Don't ask me why my ears aren't shot - it's a miracle.
Thank you for explaining all of these points. It's kinda been a mystery in regards to the jumper cable, for one. This was a great comparison, especially the matching of the sound levels during the during the A/B segment. I've often found power isn't everything. Most times LESS power (15 to 40W amps, especially) is generally more playable in most rooms - and friendlier to the sound guy!
Pete townsend from the Who asked Marshall for a more powerfull amp, Jim thought he was mad but made him a 100 watt all tube amp, the rest is history as you might know! Its nice to see and hear so much different amp dudes make their own amps, but looking over the shoulders of Jim Marshall! ♨️♨️♨️
I could not have clicked faster when you said you were giving one of those Friedman's away. I've started down the Marshall road and there's a lot of cool tones to have, but what a killer way this would be to really start :)
Thanks Rhett, great comparison and nice to hear some good old sizzle and hiss! I remember reading an interview with Michael Schenker from the early 80s and he spoke about the difference between the 50W and 100W Marshall JCM800s of the era. He said he preferred the 50W as it gave him more gain while he said Ritchie Blackmore went for the higher headroom 100W. Putting aside the Flying V vs Strat element, that's how I always think of the Marshall heavy rock tonal equation: 50W = Michael Schenker; 100W = Ritchie Blackmore. Schenker's tone wins every time for me!
I use a ceriatone 68 handwired 50w clone with a PPIMV with KT77s and it is my holy grail amp. I run it just up to breakup and run a Carl Martin Plexitone for more gain. I agree with Rhett that it has that rounder slightly spongier aspect to the sound which is enough to give character to what for me is my pedal platform amp. KT77s also as far as using it as a pedal platform put it it in more fender territory and not such a one trick pony. Run it with vintage 30s and it's all good.
What a great demonstration. I feel that the 50 sounded best for that traditional rock sound you performed however I was thinking that perhaps the 100 Watt would make for a better pedal platform.?? I don't know just thought.
In my punked up party metal band experience I enjoy 100 watt super lead style circuit for tight rhythms and 50 1987 circuit for lead work. I feel there is more compression and it’s slightly rounder sounding to my ears. Bigger iron and higher voltage affect the sound for sure. Filtering is another part of the equation as well and I believe seems to affect tone and feel more. 50 watt 2204 is my favorite iteration of classic Marshall circuits. I dig the 50 in this comparison
