Тёмный

I Was Wrong About This Endgame 😢 

Chess Vibes
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Puzzle FEN:
8/8/8/5R2/4K1k1/pp6/8/8 w - - 0 1
Puzzle Details:
Tassilo Von der Lasa, 1843
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Опубликовано:

 

26 май 2023

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Комментарии : 81   
@shreyjain3197
@shreyjain3197 Год назад
This technically doesn't break the rule because you still had to bring the king to stop the pawns and it wasn't just a lone rook trying to stop the pawns
@Glitch_Real
@Glitch_Real Год назад
🤓🧠🧠🧠🤯
@bam38
@bam38 Год назад
​@@Glitch_Real 💀
@zanti4132
@zanti4132 Год назад
Yes, as is true for just about every chess principle, the real answer is "it depends" - it depends on the position. Generally speaking, a rook can't stop two connected pawns on the sixth rank, but factor in the placement of the two kings, and there are going to be exceptions to the rule. In the position shown in the video, White has a tricky tactical sequence to save the draw.
@torarne7796
@torarne7796 Год назад
Exactly. The rook can't stop the pawns by itself, but the rook and the king can do it together. Just as in other positions.
@tottenvillelegend826
@tottenvillelegend826 Год назад
Truth
@BorisGamingChannel
@BorisGamingChannel Год назад
I had a chess book with 101 suggestions for beginners to follow. The first 100 were principaled and logical statements, but my favorite one was the last: "In chess, the only way to become master is to know when you can break the principals you have learned".
@mikahamari6420
@mikahamari6420 Год назад
And then you shred the book and burned it to ashes. 🔥
@andarerYT
@andarerYT Год назад
​@@mikahamari6420 and snorted the ashes
@zanti4132
@zanti4132 Год назад
"Creativity is the ability to recognize situations where the rules don't apply." --Me
@BorisGamingChannel
@BorisGamingChannel Год назад
@@zanti4132 I love that!
@mikahamari6420
@mikahamari6420 Год назад
@@zanti4132 That is well said. 👍 Many people think it makes them different when they say "No" if others say "Yes", but it is just echoing others, totally predictable and rule-based behaviour. Creativity and rules are not the opposite, as you said. If everything in Chess was just mechanical following of principles, it wouldn't have retained and grown its success even today. I think top engines solve this "creativity" element by their super fast calculation of variations, because they are not creative. But neural networks have come closer this. I still love to watch the games in which Alpha Zero strangled Stockfish by making its pieces immobilized. At least for human player that would have been very creative way to take the edge.
@mikahamari6420
@mikahamari6420 Год назад
Great teaching as always, thank you! Rook vs. Pawns is often an interesting battle. The "material advantage" doesn't mean much, when horizontal and vertical movement is not enough and you need diagonal. But as seen here, it is subtle, even one check may change the situation.
@SenseiSathya
@SenseiSathya Год назад
Watching Nelson's puzzle makes my day and I'm over the moon when I solve his puzzles. Very satisfying and educational. Chess Vibes should create 2+ videos per day
@user-eo5xj9hr2g
@user-eo5xj9hr2g Год назад
Such an interesting position! No doubts about why even the rook
@blendernoob420
@blendernoob420 Год назад
chess never stops to be amazing
@BobChess
@BobChess Год назад
"I was wrong about this endgame" Viewers: nah bro, it is too complicated and I don't see it. It's okay that you miss.
@alexpotts6520
@alexpotts6520 Год назад
I wonder whether this position has actually ever occurred in a grandmaster game? Like a game where black calculates that he can trade down to this position, and thinks, "yeah two pawns on the 6th beat a rook", and doesn't analyse any further, then when he reaches the endgame he realises he's screwed up.
@DanielDugovic
@DanielDugovic Год назад
I've read Encyclopedia of Chess Endgames and didn't realize this was in there.
@keymasta3260
@keymasta3260 Год назад
I memorized 5-man endgame tablebaseses so it was obvious for me
@Jared7873
@Jared7873 Год назад
Big 🧠 🤯
@irritator9062
@irritator9062 Год назад
Being a 1300 rated, I'm glad I got it correct
@Kat-dp4rh
@Kat-dp4rh Год назад
Nelson: I said 2 pawns on the last rank was always winning for the pawns, but that was a mistake, I found a position where the side with the rook can draw. Also Nelson on 11 April 2022: *releases a video called "which position can white win?", in which there is a puzzle where the side with the rook manages to win! 😜 It was similar to what happen after Kg1, where black is in zugswang. I remembered the video, and it helped me find this one. Nice video Nelson
@wesleydeng71
@wesleydeng71 Год назад
Most of rules in chess have exceptions. There are always some quirky positions that violate rules.
@AbouTaim-Lille
@AbouTaim-Lille 3 месяца назад
Off course the rook can stop the pawns if they are not connected.
@ulischarl2026
@ulischarl2026 Год назад
such a nice end game theory, I did enjoy this video a lot
@Bucket-f9z
@Bucket-f9z Год назад
thanks for this useful advice to use on my endgames
@Dausuul
@Dausuul Год назад
I don't feel like this invalidates your original statement. Any "x beats y" statement in chess comes with an implied "barring special circumstances." I mean, the rook can also beat the pawns if you're in a position to take one pawn on the first move, or deliver mate in 1. This is just a more elaborate version of that.
@timesnow6205
@timesnow6205 Год назад
in general, it's not a good idea to say "always", which is a good life lesson too, life situations is almost like chess positions
@DavidNietoRamos
@DavidNietoRamos Год назад
Gracias señor aumentaste mi conocimiento de ajedrez
@fifiwoof1969
@fifiwoof1969 Год назад
Nice one Nelson. More Bobby Fischerman please.
@christopherheckman7957
@christopherheckman7957 Год назад
In short: R vs 2 connected passed pawns on 6th is a win for the pawns. K+R vs K+2 cpps can be a draw.
@poly_hexamethyl
@poly_hexamethyl Год назад
I couldn't think of how to draw for white, and found this fascinating!
@mudamudamudamudamudamuda7778
If they move their king you don’t have to mirror. If you move your rook from f1 to f2 then its forced mate and they can’t run for long and its mate before they can queen
@randylazer2894
@randylazer2894 Год назад
Nelson....you are a really good guy. What I wish is that when you started out with your video, sharing that you had made a mistake, that you somehow could teach a few million people on Facebook, and for that matter RU-vid and Twitter, to act as you did; which is to admit to an error, and move forward. Good Lord, about half of this country goes nuts if one is merely proven to be wrong, even about really inconsequential stuff. But thanks for taking your time and of giving your expertise that helps many with their learning and pursuit of chess. Lots of good wishes for you.
@PauIdenino
@PauIdenino Год назад
Yay I got this right, it was helpful to practice rook vs king endgame. 😄
@zyloxyoutube
@zyloxyoutube Год назад
i remembered this
@0638
@0638 Год назад
hey theres an opening named after von der lasa, its the von Der Lasa gambit
@KolejowySzynszyl901
@KolejowySzynszyl901 Год назад
Brain.exe has stopped working
@hcgreier6037
@hcgreier6037 Год назад
Hi Nelson, there is another nice sideline when Black pushes the a-pawn first: 1.♖f1 a2 2.♖g1+ ♚h3 3.♔f3 and draw due to opposition, but if Black plays 3...♚h2?, then White wins with 4.♖a1 b2 (4...♚h3?? 5.♖h1++) 5.♖xa2 and the b-pawn is pinned!
@gunsandpolitics5510
@gunsandpolitics5510 Год назад
I wondered about a2. I missed the b pawn pin! Good catch.
@ezra7088
@ezra7088 Год назад
I was able to get from the beginning position to 3:34 in my head, but then I couldn't see the move. I found it once that position was reached in the video tho, but that is a pretty hard move to find
@bigredracingdog466
@bigredracingdog466 Год назад
The exception that proves the rule.
@KevinAllen619
@KevinAllen619 Год назад
Thanks Nelson, and God bless ya
@ozderei6607
@ozderei6607 Год назад
What if black goes a2 instead of b2
@LaggyMcDougal
@LaggyMcDougal 11 месяцев назад
what would happen if rook went to f4 check?
@stanimir5F
@stanimir5F Год назад
To me this position doesn't make you "wrong" about this endgame. There will always be some specific situation in which a certain piece will be more valuable than another(s) that in theory should be better. Pretty much every puzzle that involves underpromotion is an example of such case.
@PhattyMatty2008
@PhattyMatty2008 Год назад
What if Black’s first pawn move was a2? Still winning for black then… yes?
@Dexaan
@Dexaan Год назад
Wouldn't it play out the same, except at the point where you move the rook to B1 to force a pawn move, you move to A1, and then the B2 pawn is pinned to the king on H2 when you take the A2 pawn?
@Dausuul
@Dausuul Год назад
Nope. As Doug points out, you just pin the b2 pawn instead of forking a2. Everything else is the same.
@xerxese191
@xerxese191 6 месяцев назад
Chess is FULL of exceptions. Here's another guideline that you will not agree with even though it's true. A queen is no stronger than a pawn! Think about it and you'll LOVE Chess that much more.
@myeon4866
@myeon4866 Год назад
What happnen if A2 first?
@flukeog2225
@flukeog2225 Год назад
In the position where the king was on the H file couldn't it have just gone to H8 and promoted their B pawn since it protected the checkmate?
@Dausuul
@Dausuul Год назад
If the white king is on f7 and black moves Kh8, white simply moves Rh1#. That ends the game right there; black never gets a chance to promote the b pawn.
@flukeog2225
@flukeog2225 Год назад
@@Dausuul ah my bad
@cihankara9637
@cihankara9637 Год назад
Nice one but i guess you miss A2 pawn move after F1
@Dausuul
@Dausuul Год назад
It plays out the same, except if the black king moves down to h2. In that case, the rook goes to a1 instead of b1. When black moves b2, white responds with Rxa2, and instead of a fork, it's a pin: The b2 pawn can't move without putting black's king in check. So the king has to move, and white plays Rxb2 and goes on to win.
@samirlofty8899
@samirlofty8899 8 месяцев назад
RF1
@sneedmcsneed2762
@sneedmcsneed2762 Год назад
Wouldn't white be able to draw by repetition in first scenerio?
@samirlofty8899
@samirlofty8899 8 месяцев назад
Rb1
@samirlofty8899
@samirlofty8899 8 месяцев назад
Kd3
@glennkarg1331
@glennkarg1331 Год назад
Thank you
@manjilpokhrel4547
@manjilpokhrel4547 Год назад
can the rook go upside inside of downside
@jennifercheung6464
@jennifercheung6464 Год назад
No
@MichaelHarrisIreland
@MichaelHarrisIreland 6 месяцев назад
Yes
@graecullen1584
@graecullen1584 Год назад
The other guy
@ushamoolchandani2243
@ushamoolchandani2243 Год назад
A2
@Dausuul
@Dausuul Год назад
It plays out the same, except the rook pins the b2 pawn instead of forking the a2 pawn.
@mr.witherstorm
@mr.witherstorm Год назад
y r there dislikes?
@drziggyabdelmalak1439
@drziggyabdelmalak1439 Год назад
Cool.
@Mpetersable
@Mpetersable Год назад
You make too many unnecesary moves.
@Namal23
@Namal23 Год назад
Subsystem
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