I Wish I Knew This When I Started: Logo Design

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Lessons learned from starting a design company. How to charge more for a logo design. Why do some designers feel guilty about charging for creative services? Why charge $50 for a logo? Why did you continue to charge so little?
On this episode, Ben Burns joins us on the show as he recounts stories about getting started in design and charging clients $50 for a logo. He was happy and felt a sense of validation.
Later on, he heard about other designers like Aaron Draplin charging $20k and thought "Wow! That's amazing. But there's no way I could charge that."
Is this a problem you're facing? Then watch this episode.
Find MrBenBurns here:
/ mrbenburns
/ mrbenburns
Annotations:
--
2:40 First logos and competing to work at spec via O Desk
5:18 Q: Why didn't it occur to you to ask for more money?
8:47 Q: Have you ever run into a situation where clients ask you for more?
9:59 Value your time as more than a commodity, and don't give it away for free.
12:00 Lack of symmetry in logic
14:18 The Difference is confidence in the value that you provide
15:20 You can do the same work, but you have to position it differently to charge more.
AIGA Pricing Guide + Ethics:
www.aiga.org/aiga/content/tool...
Media Drop:
--
Aaron Draplin - Making it in the little leagues (TedxPortland)
_
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The PROCESS
Credits:
Executive Producer- Chris Do
Hosts- Chris Do
Director- Aaron Szekely
Cameraman- Aaron Szekely, Andrew Truong
Producer- Aaron Szekely
Editor- Aaron Szekely
Show Open- designed by William VanSkaik, animated by Bara Kwon
Intro Theme Song- Adam Sanborne www.adamsanborne.com
Annotations- Isaiah Nwukor
===
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Опубликовано:

7 ноя 2016

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Комментарии : 1,3 тыс.

@Kenyatta.M 6 лет назад

Man. This is like therapy for designers.

@thefutur 6 лет назад

It is. ;)

@Pompnumber 5 лет назад

agreed!

@thisheregiraffe85 5 лет назад

More like confessional! I thought Chris was going to ask for a hail Mary for each of those 20 $50 logos.

@user-xj7ms2hy7l 5 лет назад

@@thefutur Do you use adobe illustrator for design?

@georgegakere8283 5 лет назад

Indeed it is.

@GofelipeGraphicDesign 7 лет назад

charging $50 for a logo and spending 10 hours or more on it, you really ended up paying the client to design their logo because time is money, not to mention time you could have been doing something more productive or creating memories with your love ones. If you are going to sell your time it should be worth it.

@thefutur 7 лет назад

Go Felipe! Graphic Design 100% agree. 🙏

@NQuiz52 5 лет назад

Its about the value you create, not the time. Maybe you develop a crappy logo, if so your time spent is worthless .

@rodels.3745 5 лет назад

@Arty_Zik 5 лет назад

haha live in Latvia

@MrUtoobee 4 года назад

Well said Felipe. This is what Designers need to understand that you are spending valuable time of your life into doing something exceptional for someone else. If you are going to get peanuts for that, you better stay off it instead.

@quantinabeck-jones7151 5 лет назад

Instantly subscribed when you said "no amount of money can buy your time back..." Thank you for this!

@thefutur 5 лет назад

Welcome to the Futur

@mmazz414 6 лет назад

This channel has completely flipped my life around in the best possible way...

@MrLiquidxIce 4 года назад

anal ?

@quinsiero1378 4 года назад

@Your worse enemy, 😂😂 im dead

@93FilmsandMedia 3 года назад

Same

@ExploreElegance 7 лет назад

I think the best advice is to explain why you will charge $200 for a logo design? You will do research, creating a moodboard, sketching, prototyping, colours experimentation, presentation and REVISIONS. If the client can't understand all this, so good luck for him with the $5 fast food designers.

@Zakuma101 7 лет назад

This right here, if you show a client this entire process that youve done, and show them youre enveloped in their company, it would be great for convincing.

@thefutur 7 лет назад

kiyosk we will expand on this.

@larrymack6856 7 лет назад

I'm waiting to hear about this

@SorryAboutYourMom 4 года назад

I absolutely love the raw honesty from Ben throughout the interview. This is a great session for beginners/intermediates to really learn from!

@vampirizza 6 лет назад

''IT WAS JUST MY TIME'' I'm literally crying.

@thefutur 6 лет назад

here for you.

@Ćello.the.Creator 4 месяца назад

You could literally smell Chris' disappointment after that statement..😅💔

@SergheyKatastrofenko 3 года назад

I don't know why but Chris's speeches never fail to blow my mind every time. Even in a free conversation, the ideas are so well structured with examples and everything that he makes it look way easier than it is. And these ideas can be applied anywhere, not only in the design field of work. Love these.

@thefutur 3 года назад

Thank you

@westwaterproductions 7 лет назад

Where are these clients at that will actually pay $5000-$20000 for a logo design? I'm all ears...

@thefutur 7 лет назад

are you looking for them? are you positioned to attract them?

@Xplorer228 6 лет назад

Its really tough to become a name brand like Gucci or something. Saying you should be charging $5000 for a logo is completely unrealistic unless you've already built a name for yourself. If you haven't then you will only loose clients.

@eyhtwozed2606 6 лет назад

First, find one of them. Then find the rest.

@artbear5653 5 лет назад

mossy1 the point here is that you need search for the client that will pay you a lot, and it is not easy there are 20% who can afford the logo for 5k+ and 80% that can not, but tricky part is that you have to search your self, and it won't be on elance for sure. Also depends on the location where you are in the world if you are in 3rd world country chances are 0 % same as almost no one drive Lamborghini there. So it is an idea of that you should charge more, not number because if LA its 5-20k in India where every 2nd person is designer, it is some $. So don't focus on number also on location.

@nazimDZ 5 лет назад

@@artbear5653 just an information xD in the third world ( in Emirates and Qatar )maybe 50 % of people have Lambourghini or maybe better

@BhagirathyJPanth 7 лет назад

I'm a design learner from India and i'm very glad that a series as informative as your exists. I've been learning so much about the industry of the world and thank you for this.

@thefutur 7 лет назад

glad to hear. We have many fans from India.

@nyashamajuta9451 3 года назад

Two years later this is still relevant, I really needed this, definitely felt like Chris was talking to me directly.

@thefutur 3 года назад

Here for you.

@MetroversalDesign 7 лет назад

This video has the potential to change the life of many people. Thank you for sharing your experience with us.

@thefutur 7 лет назад

MetroUX wow. That's a big statement.

@KoryGraphic 7 лет назад

Agreed, i feel very down lately, i'm into graphic since i was 13 but i'm officially studying it just now that i'm 20 and i'm very afraid of losing my creativity. I love your videos Futur, you gave me motivation.

@bruno.myrrha 7 лет назад

So I can tell that this video has changed my life. I've changed my income in about 5 times more and reduced my work to a 8 hour day journey. Thank you man.

@thefutur 7 лет назад

Bruno Myrrha congrats. You can always send us vouchers of appreciation. (Money). :)

@diji5071 6 лет назад

+Ben Burns Thanks man

@armandocabrales 7 лет назад

I was doing logos for free then 150$ now am up to 1500$ for logo, thanks to the valuable information from The Futur videos. am still searching to make a logo for $20k, I know the client is out there.

@thefutur 7 лет назад

armando cabrales love hearing this! When you do, we are interviewing you for the show. Deal?

@armandocabrales 7 лет назад

Deal! Thanks for the encouragement. And thanks so much for the videos they are great!

@FlorianRemy 6 лет назад

That's awesome! Can you show me what a 1,500 usd logo looks like? I am really curious to see how different it is compared to a 50 usd one.

@SergheyKatastrofenko 3 года назад

@@FlorianRemy It's not about the logo itself. The same logo can cost 50$ or 5000$. It's about the value it has for the client and the value you, as a designer, assign to it.

@venomous 6 лет назад

This is so damn eye opening... because I’m doing my very first graphics design job right now and I have no idea what to charge but now I feel confident knowing that my value is so... so much higher than what I was thinking about charging.

@AZTigerMMA 4 года назад

Artist have high agreeability and high compassion - this makes it’s hard - we also think that everyone is where WE are.. and assume people do not have that money - we also think about “TIME”

@BluezConcepts 7 лет назад

I didn't know logo's are so expensive , I thought it was arround $50-$200.

@thefutur 7 лет назад

BluezConcepts cars are the same way. You get what you pay for.

@TheThirdCotelydon 7 лет назад

I think there should be a range, depending on experience and quality of the work :)

@thefutur 7 лет назад

TheThirdCotelydon that makes sense.

@skeptic-psychic 7 лет назад

I think it depends on the area you are marketing to as well. For instance, I live in small town south texas in one of the lowest income areas in the country. There is no way most people here would pay $5,000 - $20,000 for a logo. We are lucky if we can get $200 here.

@Foxuniverso 7 лет назад

Kimbra RODRIGUEZ i get you, i live in Ponce Puerto Rico, people here are cheap as hell! XD (even before the dept!)

@GabieRetana 7 лет назад

Perfect timing. I'm just starting and today I got asked to create three logos (the guy's family has three companies) and they want to give them a fresher look. I've been freaking out all day because I don't really know how much I should charge or even how to say it but oh my god this video is gold. THANK YOU!

@thefutur 7 лет назад

Alright. Perfect timing indeed.

@samuraikina5908 7 лет назад

you should charge him atleast 10K, appreciate your work.

@jakereading3900 7 лет назад

She probably asked for 20k and they lol'd at her assuming she was joking hahaha, seriously though there's no end of low profiled market places with designers at a professional standard charging 10$ for a Logo.. This video seems like it's being used to manipulate the prices because they see greater content being sold for 10$ compared to there 20,000$ price mark causing less sales.. I mean the design presented on your site ( including logo ) I wouldn't even pay 10$ for..

@charlesallen4287 7 лет назад

Jake Reading, to add to what you said, as a business owner, I do not spend money unless I have an expectation to get more money back in the future. Is spending more than $200 on a logo really going to increase the value of my business? If a logo really does affect a prospective client's purchase decision, then it can be easily tested. Two versions of a Web site, an A version and a B version, where EVERYTHING is the same EXCEPT for the logo can be set up to test which is getting better conversions. Again, everything except for the logo is the same. Either version A or version B should outperform the other if logos matter. If one version does outperform the other, I would happily pay more for that logo. Hell, if one logo was increasing my sales by $100,000 per year, I would be an idiot not to pay $10,000 for it. The problem is, would an artists agree to that? Would an artist who wants several thousand dollars for a logo guarantee the result? Would an artist agree to a contract provision that says "unless sales increase by $100,000 per year, I am entitled only to $8/hr"? I would venture to say not. This same problem goes for Web design. I do not care if my Web site is just black text on a white background if it gets me sales. However, I am willing to pay for a colorful and interactive Web site if my sales increase enough to cover my expense and then some. One thing I learned fast is that no matter how pretty a Web site looks, it requires constant changes to increase visibility on Google and to increase conversions. I am not willing to pay $20,000 for eye candy that almost certainly will have to be reworked over the next six months.

@abhishekfaujdar6183 7 лет назад

Gabie Moret hi can u design a logo for my company aswell? For more info contact +91 7838234834 i will give u details

@jottheu 6 лет назад

Thank you for this. Charging reasonable prices is my biggest struggle. I just realized I am filling my (very happy) clients glasses again and again while only charging the first round. You really put things into perspective.

@shevtan5300 7 лет назад

Thank you for making this video. As a student designer, it has taken me a few years to realise that my self worth is important to my craft and knowing that it should be valued as such. I wish I saw this video earlier but I'm glad I'm seeing it now; building on my self-confidence and allowing my clients see how much my design is worth is now my number one priority. Thank you!

@NXDNXRD 6 лет назад

Thank you guys for the video! As a self taught designer, I gained a lot of perspective and some very valuable insight from this interview! In order to deliver on your commitment and to mitigate your client's expectations; it's incredibly important to value your work, time, and to manage your energy.

@AlwynMungofa 7 лет назад

Camera angles game is strong. Loving the setup

@thefutur 7 лет назад

Alwyn Mungofa thanks!

@michelleguzmanphoto 7 лет назад

Love this topic. It's so needed! :) Thank you for always putting great content out there!

@thefutur 7 лет назад

Michelle G you're welcome Michelle.

@Qwertworks 6 лет назад

I think the problem is, like so often, underestimating your own worth. For example when it comes to redoing a logo people (especially newcomers) feel like "I have to redo it, because it was my lack of skill that made my design not match my customers expectations". (like they basically said at the end of the video after I typed that comment lol).

@HRStudiosTheDungeon 7 лет назад

people are waking up as designers. stop cheating yourself.

@thefutur 7 лет назад

that's right!

@nathanmalik1697 4 года назад

This is deep and intense. It's a class on self esteem and confidence primarily.

@frankieroberson3398 6 лет назад

New To The Channel and I am glued; awesome sound advice; looking forward to watching more vlogs; thanks for sharing!!!

@thefutur 6 лет назад

welcome Frankie!

@designsbyhiroki 6 лет назад

i love these long content filled videos. i listen to it while i do design work. great work keep it up!

@morganhebert2590 6 лет назад

This guy describes exactly where I'm at right now and repeats thoughts I've had many many times. I'm a newish freelance graphic designer in a location currently where people don't respect the product enough to pay more than $50 for it, and I always feel bad asking for more. Thank you so much for this video, a lot of people need to see a video like this to give them the push they need!

@metafuel 6 лет назад

I'm watching this in 2018 and Ben, I feel for you bro. I'm the exact same. I always feel that I can't charge too much for something that I love doing. Feel terrible about asking for more cash. Thanks you for this - I have a feeling it's going to change my 2018 around. No more Mr. Cheap Guy for my awesome work. Thanks

@Andrew.Stuart 7 лет назад

Hit the nail on the head with lacking confidence (and valuing your skills). Great video, thanks

@glennracoma7481 5 лет назад

Paradigm shift (mindset) in thinking about time, our product and the value it honestly deserves. Sobering interview that encourages serious assessment of what we do for a living.

@theninetieskid2853 6 лет назад

I’m really thankful for this video!! it opened my eyes .. I just started logo designing and I charged even fewer than he did and I already had a bad feeling about it cause it’s my time and it seems like people don’t appreciate your value of time!! For real it opened my eyes

@AshValmontLyons 7 лет назад

This is one of the most raw, honest and, in my own career, perfectly relatable videos I have ever seen. Thank you.

@thefutur 7 лет назад

Valmont appreciate it.

@GuitarGrind 4 года назад

Making a logo to save a puppy, so crazy that a meme like that is actually this guy's real story.

@dillenium 6 лет назад

Always have same feeling when we climb the ladder of designing.. When you get skills then there are so many concepts that you wish to know before start.. but all comes up with time.. Great topic to share insight!!

@Carson878 Год назад

How Ben was talking about basically is "Work harder to get more" but what Chris did and probably what people should also do is "Work smarter to get more."

@RayGreenJr 4 года назад

"You freely gave away your time and undermined your own value and self-worth."

@gregryan3252 6 лет назад

Adding to the conversation in this episode, one of the best books you can invest in is "Graphic Artist Guild HandBook Pricing and Ethical Guidelines." It definitely helps to answer a lot of these kind of questions.

@OlamideAbiala 7 лет назад

Thank you for uploading this video. It helped me identify my mentality. Had a major breakthrough of how I see myself and my work

@raysway2000 5 лет назад

OMG! This content is flooring me. I've watched and followed a lot of channels. NOTHING! comes close to this stuff. Absolutely love this format of a therapeutic design chill session.

@thefutur 5 лет назад

Thanks. Welcome to the Futur

@jeffreyyoungblood7438 7 лет назад

so much great advice in this video. may have to watch it a few times.

@thefutur 7 лет назад

Jeffrey Youngblood please do. Then watch Pt. 2.

@vintagelove2373 7 лет назад

i'm glad i found this channel. The content is so good

@thefutur 7 лет назад

Vintage Love thanks love.

@vertigo2122 6 лет назад

This is such a good way to look at how you value your time. I needed to hear this, since it comes easy to me I have a hard time with pricing sometimes.

@tollesonrockstar 6 лет назад

I love how it cuts out right as he contemplates what he would tell his younger self. AHHH I LOVE IT!

@TrueJEMtheArtist 5 лет назад

Damn this really opened my eyes... about my worth for designing a logo for someone. Right now I’m experiencing this exact thing. So, this guy was looking for someone to design a logo for his band because he’s about to go touring in July. He hired a graphic designer, the designer made him a couple logos but he didn’t like them. When he found me and asked me if I knew any GD. In my mind I was like finally my first potential client. Told him I’m a GD and then he told me what happened (basically the things I’ve mentioned before) and asked me if I can make a logo for him, but he’ll pay me 50 bucks. This happened right on the spot and like this guy you were talking to, I didn’t know how to charge people. So, I said yes with little confidence. However, I knew in my mind I should’ve charged way more. I wanted to disagree on the price, but idk something stopped me. After watching your videos rn I’m like screw this, this guy owes me more, I still haven’t started on the logo because I believe I should charge more. Also, he still hasn’t given full details on how he wants his logo or the specific things he wants in it. Now he might’ve found another GD because it’s been a week already, but I’m going to message the client saying what’s up? Then charge more. My time is worth more than 50 bucks or in other words, gas money.

@marioronci6342 7 лет назад

loving the new camera angles, up close and personal

@thefutur 7 лет назад

Mario Ronci always evolving.

@LaithWallace 7 лет назад

Fully agree

@darkcanvas 5 лет назад

'Love the message you guys are spreading and the confidence you're spreading to young designers.

@jessicaross2869 5 лет назад

OMG Thanks so much for friken talking about this! I completely feel the same way that Ben felt when he was starting out, like feeling guilty for charging a client for an exponential amount of revisions, changing their minds, whatever. I even feel bad for charging much money at all but I realize that in every scenario like this, I'm the one who loses, I'm the one who gets taken advantage of. Also, when the client would demand all these other revisions, I though I owed them those revisions because I just wasn't doing my job well enough. It's tough to get to that level where you can find work but not sell yourself short.

@JimmyHuynhdesign 7 лет назад

Great content! Always getting better and better guys.

@thefutur 7 лет назад

Jimmy Huynh thanks. How's your channel going?

@JimmyHuynhdesign 7 лет назад

Going well! Growing at a decent rate. Looks like you guys are doing real good. You guys keep pumping out great content. Can't wait till I see you guys hit 100k.

@UnoePuteh 6 лет назад

Jimmy Huynh ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE--kI11KuWfCI.html

@murishal 6 лет назад

Funny just started following your channel today.

@AnthonyVGibby 6 лет назад

WOW!!! I'm currently the younger Ben Burns today. All of his answers is currently my train of thought. I've devalued my work/myself for so long I have been struggling to complete jobs. I've charged $50 for a logo, $150 for website, and list goes on and on. I know I can do this same type of work but like Ben I had no context of the price I should be charging. I just never knew! I'm going to start putting a premium on my time, because I have been giving so much of it away for free for far too long. I so glad I stumbled upon this video.

@Kaydcliff 5 лет назад

So true i seems like most new designers struggle with this area much like myself.

@xchemicalXladybugx 5 лет назад

$150 for a website? My web design course in college costs more than that

@paulwieczorek9003 7 лет назад

Loved the talk! So refreshing! Absolutely loved the way you guys talk, the calmness of it and the content. Keep up the good work, we were missing that kind of talks in this community.

@craigellison2309 3 года назад

This content is literally becoming the foundational building blocks of my design business. I have no prior experience on how to run a design business but am learning from you every day. I can not thank you enough for these amazingly insightful videos.

@localsymbiosis 7 лет назад

This is such a well done interview. That guy is a master

@thefutur 7 лет назад

localsymbiosis glad you enjoyed it.

@TheBhonechellghokill 7 лет назад

I design a logo for Rp 100K in indonesia, and they say it was too expensive..(Rp 100K equal $10)

@thefutur 7 лет назад

Bhonechell Ghokill omg. That's terrible.

@TheBhonechellghokill 7 лет назад

The Futur very terrible..thats the fact.. that's why Indonesian designer decided to go abroad and work for other country's company..

@valdiharris 7 лет назад

Ha! god damn right, it's so cheap here in Indonesia

@thebucketlist. 4 года назад

I also get such kind of clients here in Kenya the best they can give is 1000 KES equal to 10dollars

@AceKhadarTrollFace1 4 года назад

@@thebucketlist. offer branding for bigger companies who can afford it. I do the same thing in Kenya bro. Just got a big contract with a county recently😁

@cannibalcatgirl 7 лет назад

This Video puts so much into perspective. From a new designer, thank you for sharing this. I dont know where the shame of asking for what you really are worth comes from, but theres nothing wrong with charging fairly when you put your heart and soul into your craft. Time is precious

@thefutur 7 лет назад

thank you.

@factopolis7752 7 лет назад

This channel is insane. It's so weird how on point you can speak no matter who the other person in the chair is. Thank you for everything

@thefutur 7 лет назад

akeem anderson appreciate it Akeem.

@simonedc16 7 лет назад

This is so recognizable! I am in the middle of starting my own company, while still being in school (Communication and Multimedia Design study). This week my first customer and I got to an agreement. For a logo. I charge him 15 euro's an hour. After seeing this video I realize it is much too little. Do you have some tips for me? This client also wants a website when he likes the logo... My experiences are only school projects and fictive assignments.

@thefutur 7 лет назад

our whole channel is dedicated on how to charge more. watch a couple more videos and ask me again. or tune in live tomorrow at 11am PST.

@tyro7428 7 лет назад

This dude is a god Damm therapist 😂

@thefutur 7 лет назад

Tyro™ 🙏

@shruthibaskar1647 7 лет назад

Tyro™ His zen like appearance actually calms me lol

@jimcrawley7363 5 лет назад

Thank you! Admire what you are doing and has helped so much with my mindset.

@aldesigns6494 5 лет назад

This was a great video!! I feel like I am like Ben, undercharging for my work. This is definitely an eye opener. 🔥🔥👌🏼🙌🏼

@no.daveed 7 лет назад

I literally yelped when the video cut off for Part 2. Great insight!!!! MORE!!!!

@thefutur 7 лет назад

Program25 lol.

@nickd897 4 года назад

i charged $95 for a logo coming into this video, and I left this exact video charging more

@babyprintz 6 лет назад

I'm glad I stumbled on this episode. It was enjoyable and insightful listening to the conversation. Chris, your questions were relevant as well as the examples and connections you've shared. And Ben, thanks for being open and honest with your responses. The tone was very down to earth and I felt like I was there in the room. I appreciate the interview.

@moviesovermatterproductions 3 года назад

Again, nothing but net! This is such sound advice through/from honest testimony. Ben has developed that confident mentality that is so necessary. Quite an inspiring journey. (Also so glad to hear that they were able to foster the cutie pup♥️) Makes me reflect on how much esteem I need to build as well. Fabulous episode! Take care & be well my guys👏🏾🌹 you’re really inspiring your audiences

@brianschnurr3254 7 лет назад

Great video.

@christianmagill3829 7 лет назад

Hi Chris, I love your thinking! Can you do some videos on practices (daily, etc.) to increase confidence? Thanks

@thefutur 7 лет назад

yeah. that sounds very reasonable.

@thefutur 7 лет назад

check out this FB live video on Confidence.

@christianmagill3829 7 лет назад

Seems like the link is missing. Thanks.

@thefutur 7 лет назад

sorry. here it is: facebook.com/chrisdobusinessdesigner/videos/10154153569410979/?l=4457944466730676667

@christianmagill3829 7 лет назад

Much thanks!

@franciscosunworld 3 года назад

This is a fantastic exploration..thanks a lot to both of you

@alimy1119 7 лет назад

Great video, as always. You are doing great service!

@AlessandroMenduni 7 лет назад

I think pricing is about more than just being confident in your skills, you also need to be confident that you're not screwing up, by raising the price. Personally my biggest "fear" comes from not knowing how much other people are charging in my area. Do you have any tips on how to find out? Thanks Chris, awesome content as always! Keep up

@thefutur 7 лет назад

Alessandro Menduni I believe the AIGA produces a list of rates by cities. It's called the Acquent study (or something like that).

@bokunokintama5523 6 лет назад

There are other factors that decide how and why you price a design... What kind of service are you offering.. Is it full service or just bare bones? Do you pay vendors, or print in house? Do you employ others to help or do the job? Will you be printing the work at all or just giving them a digital version for reproduction on their own? How long will the job take? How busy are you and do you have the time for the job? What are the standards for the job/service in your area? There are several other factors as well. Now, I'm not perfect. I struggle to assign value to my work and time, but if you do jobs too cheap, especially when someone is referred to you from another client, they will also expect you to do cheap work with high quality. Then you are stuck in that rut of hard work for litttle pay.

@justadesigner8895 6 лет назад

I have the exact problem myself. Don't get me wrong, I know referrals are great and let me expand and find more projects quickly, but most of the time it works like "friend referring me to a friend", so they think I will give them a "friends and family discount". Aside from that, I think you skipped one crucial factor - designers, developers, etc. have to learn every day to keep up with trends, standards, technology and so forth... Personally I love that part - learning new things, but at some level this is still part of job.

@julisawright596 7 лет назад

Oh man, this hits home so hard. So glad I stumbled upon this. Thank you!!

@gabriellahanna5594 3 года назад

Thank you so much for sharing! your videos wont let any artist to devaluing theirselves, its one of a kind!

@arvinsilberman804 4 года назад

It’s because his self-validation is tied to his customers’ satisfaction.

@AvinashSingh-wt8tc 7 лет назад

Great Video as always, but how does this theory stands with a freelance start up designer when he just needs to "make money" to survive. I totally understand what chris means when he says that he would prefer to watch a movie than design a logo for $50. I mean that seems to kill self esteem and confidence of start up designers who just need to basically make a living.

@thefutur 7 лет назад

you have to get out of the "needy" or "scarcity" mind set. this is a tough one to overcome if you are literally starving. my suggestion, go work somewhere and save up for a rainy day fund. then go freelance when you have enough side clients going on.

@saraelisa8938 7 лет назад

Thank you so much for the amazing content you share, Chris! So so happy to have found this amazing channel! I wish I knew about it when finished Design School :D!

@thefutur 7 лет назад

saraelisa now you know. Glad to have you.

@nat4br 6 лет назад

I'm loving you guys! Thanks for the post, I work in this area for so long and only now I'm seeing why I'm still in the same place.

@EddyTritten 7 лет назад

The hype is real!

@thefutur 7 лет назад

what hype?

@EddyTritten 7 лет назад

For part 2

@EddyTritten 7 лет назад

"Hype" means excitement/momentum right?

@Wavywahid 7 лет назад

People at 99designs.com designing logos for free. Ruining the market

@afrocat3974 7 лет назад

i see alot of stolen designs there tho, so i wouldnt be surprised

@afrocat3974 7 лет назад

***** exactly man

@breppbrepp 7 лет назад

Ben Burns True that

@rafiktekari 7 лет назад

I agree totally, but my question is how? Especially that you where one day there, and now you are charging much more. How did you get there? I really hoping to hear the answer from you, and looking to watch Part 2.

@yvidhiatama 7 лет назад

I believe 99designs.com is not ruining the market since there are a lot of other designers who know what's right. But what I DO BELIEVE is that 99designs is ruining the client's time and creativity.

@angeliawimbley794 6 лет назад

Great video! Loved the lessons and I needed to hear this today! :-)

@ButlerBranding 7 лет назад

this is a great video! love the new setup, and content was perfect. I think this video is super relevant.

@thefutur 7 лет назад

Butler Branding thanks Sean.

@AdrianaLemus 7 лет назад

The same happens in architecture and in many other fields. I recently partnered with a former classmate to run our own arch firm. She doesn't have any arch experience (after graduating from university) and feels she can't charge as much or even charge for certain things. Unfortunately, recent graduates have that feeling that they need to pay for experience, so they charge very little or nothing at all. This mentality is also pushed by places that don't pay their interns (like the United Nations, to name a huge, outrageous example), or companies that pay very little. Where I'm from, a junior architect is paid less than people in the call center industry.

@thefutur 7 лет назад

i guess this problem is much deeper than just for graphic designers.

@AdrianaLemus 7 лет назад

Unfortunately so! :/ But as it's been made very clear by The Futur in this and other videos, we must value our work and our time.

@thefutur 7 лет назад

Yes. We have to start to reprogram everyone that it's okay to do creative things and be paid handsomely for it.

@kmbm23 7 лет назад

why does this channel have less subs than KSI? Humans.

@thefutur 7 лет назад

Kenneth Mwiti what's KSI?

@92kosta 7 лет назад

+The Futur KSI is a RU-vidr who has over 15.000.000 subscribers.

@thefutur 7 лет назад

92kosta I saw his channel. I figured it out. People would rather be entertained than learn. Decline of western civilization.

@kmbm23 7 лет назад

The Futur so bloody true it hurts. Keep up the great work!

@mrtneditz 7 лет назад

I've watched KSI a couple of times when he had like 500k, but I'd still rather watch factual and informational videos to constantly learn something new.

@sarahswan8498 5 лет назад

This was a perfect video! I think it's about how we value ourselves and our artwork.

@nvrdi13 7 лет назад

Wow! This blew my mind. I can totally relate to Ben. I feel the same way now when he was still starting his design work. This is one amazing video!

@RayGreenJr 4 года назад

"You are doing the exact same thing as Draplin or Michael Bierut or one of these kinds of "rockstar" designers. You're doing the same work, technically, but they're positioned differently than you."

@horacechincer 7 лет назад

The interviewer here may be a big-shot designer, but his interview style is in need of MAJOR improvement. He comes across as self-aggrandizing, stuck-up, and waaaay too cool for school. I give Ben Burns major credit for keeping a cool head. Good for the interviewer that he can't possibly imagine charging $50 for a design. Plenty of people getting started simply want to build a portfolio. Did the interviewer's first job earn him a windfall right out of the gate? Good for him. He would be the first guy I ever heard of doing that. Why is this interviewer being so confrontational to a guy who is clearly on the same side of the issue he is? His intent here is not clear. Interrupting his subject as often as he does comes off as plain rude. He wants people to have confidence in their work and themselves, just like he does. You'll get no argument from me that people need help realizing that creative services are a labor commodity that can (and should) get the fiduciary respect they deserve. But the clash of realities on display here is notable. Can the market sustain every designer in the world charging twenty grand per logo design? Or is there room for weekend warriors and pro-sumer hobbiests in the creative marketplace? It's nice to get paid to learn on the job as a freelancer sometimes. Sometimes, it absolutely sucks. I should know. I'm a late bloomer, and the new market can be both rough and rewarding, depending on the day. The beer analogy here is good information. That's what I find so confounding. The interviewer has worthwhile knowledge to share, but he doles it out in snooty anecdotes that belittle his interview subject's perspective. An the innocent lack of knowledge that one experiences at the beginning of their career is hardly novel. Sir, your attitude in interviewing needs major retooling. I didn't finish this video. But I'm going to paraphrase from it a bit: "For me, I'd rather not watch this at all, even though it costs nothing. I'll go watch a movie. Because this interviewer's approach doesn't do anything for me." Except make me want to subscribe to Ben Burns. Done and DONE.

@thefutur 7 лет назад

Hi Tony. I meant no disrespect to you or Ben. For context if you care to read this. Ben Burns reached out to me over a year ago. He was in need of help but didn't know which way to turn. He was overworked, underpaid and didn't see any alternative to doing what he was doing. There was no model for him to study. I'm happy to report to you that in a matter of months, some shifts in his mindset, action and habit, he went on to hit some pretty incredible milestones. At the end of the second video, he says, I've closed my first ever, $30k logo. Which, btw, is more than I've charged for a logo design. So good for him. I've been accused before as being out of touch, blunt and even arrogant. I accept that this is your perception of who I am. That's fine and maybe even fair. All I know is that I've been able to help many more people by sharing my approach. Today, Ben works at Blind as the Digital Director. We're doing big things together. So maybe the read on our conversation together (not an interview), might be premature. Thanks for your comment.

@horacechincer 7 лет назад

If this was a conversation, it certainly looked to me like it was set up as an interview (camera placement, physical juxtaposition, etc.) Be that as it may, I can tell you're a sharp guy, and a shark to boot. There is certainly value to sharing what you know with those who aren't yet established. As a consumer (in this case, of your information) the arrogance angle is off-putting. That's probably what I found so irritating. I wanted to dig what was happening a lot. But it was like there was a dissonant noise in an otherwise clear signal. And I felt like you were bullying Ben a bit, where it wasn't warranted. Can you tell I was picked last in kickball a few too many times? Perhaps I'm old-fashioned. I have certainly been called that before. I am now a decrepit gen-Xer, and I am no longer the prime and profitable demographic. It is my humble opinion that you could help even more people if you take a look at the way you disseminate the information you have to share. You seem to me like someone who probably understands the value of rhythm, cadence, and flow. Were you to incorporate that (with maybe just a hint of compassion towards your subject) it's possible RU-vid greatness awaits. Just my two cents. And thank you for your response. It has put down the tempest in my teacup.

@thefutur 7 лет назад

Tony, thanks for keeping an open and staying engaged in the conversation. 20 minutes before we taped, i was having this exact same conversation w/ Ben, when I said, hey, let's film this. I think people will dig your story. That's how it went down. I wasn't picked first for kickball either. If you only knew me before... I wasn't into comics, dungeons and dragons, video games, and not the most athletic person either. So I can understand your reaction. Lastly, I want to share this message that came to my inbox today. No joke. "Good morning, Chris! I'm excited to report that, using the tactics you and Jose have so graciously shared, I just received a text message from my first potential client now that I'm transitioning from a graphic designer only to more of a consultant and "agency" business model as you guys suggested. I'm confident that I can help this client build a strategy that will help her business as well as produce the tools needed, but, as you and Jose spoke about in a few of your videos, I'm not the strongest in the "money talk" area and I'm not ashamed to say it. I'm reminded of your conversation with Ben Burns of Burnt Creative Agency and I'm like, "It worked! What Chris said works! Don't mess this one up, Courtney."

@joh24 5 лет назад

I was thinking exactly the same, couldn't agree more. Bravo

@asant90 4 года назад

i know this is old but I guess the asian dude pushes to much his "confidence" to the point of being rude and the interesting thing is he doesnt notice.... and dont even try to argue with the guy cause you will lose xD

@herbiebrady568 7 лет назад

I am a recent subscriber to this channel and so far this is the 2nd episode I have watched and WOW. Thanks for doing this and giving aspiring designers like myself straightforward information about the design world. Truly invaluable.

@thefutur 7 лет назад

welcome Herbie.

@jonnyjpg_ 7 лет назад

Guys, this is so great. I'm a starting up freelance designer myself and have related to all these things that Ben has encountered. I definitely feel the "shadiness" of when I ask clients for more money during overages. Immediately subscribed.

@thefutur 7 лет назад

it's tough to talk about money. but with practice and some guidance it becomes easier. having clear boundaries helps. otherwise, it sounds like "unlimited revisions" to the client.

@AnantGulia 7 лет назад

My case was exactly same as Ben's and yes as ben said confidence plays a great role in pricing and the decision making for instance to stop working for someone who keeps asking for more in same price at a particular point in time. After a few cases of like emotional slavery i thought what the hell is going on and i checked my reviews on freelancer.com and i am glad that i got very good employers as well who appreciated my work and encouraged me, paid me good even it wasn't as same as the real professional level but it gave me confidence and i started telling the stupid guys to go to hell with there money. And once i remember this one guy who started teaching me to use dreamweaver yes that adobe IDE over my personal choice and what should i do to work on his project or all the other projects in general turned out he was a programmer who didn't know s**t about web development and here he was teaching me like he was some kind of Web Development guru i talked to him for half an hour because i wasn't busy that day and after a point when he failed to tell me what he wants for his project but continued to teach me about web development i told him to stfu and go find a smart developer and make him more smart with your useless crapy advise so that he can work on your project. So this was a small yet large summary of my previous 1.5 year of freelancing bad experiences now my message to the beginners be confident and be honest with your clients good ones will stick and pay you the reasonable price for your services and don't let the bad ones fire you fire them yourself it doesn't mean be rude to everyone but don't let the smartest dumb guys teach you. Thanks for reading this till end...

@thefutur 7 лет назад

thanks for sharing. i think ben's situation struck a nerve with the design community.

@AnantGulia 7 лет назад

I know but all i am trying to say is design and development is different but this whole situation can occur in either field maybe because of the unawareness of a newbie either a designer or a developer about what to charge. Or because of a client who always encountered newbies and now he/she lost the reality that the final work he is getting for a few penny is worth a treasure in reality when he meets a more experienced designer and he still ask him/her to create a logo for him for only $50 or a basic website for $100 $150 bucks. I don't know if i am making any sense now because my english vocabulary and thought conveying skills are weak at this time but i'll improve with time. ;)

@zachdylanmolina4667 4 года назад

This guys literally trying to tell this guy how he’s feeling lol

@cadenelson5443 7 лет назад

I'm just starting graphic design through college and this is very helpful, because logo design was something I always wanted to do

@proxima_artemis 7 лет назад

This is probably the best (and the most eye opening video ) I have seen in while. Thanks guys!

@thefutur 7 лет назад

Petra Radman let us know after Pt 2

@adriancobaschi8510 7 лет назад

See, he's right about setting a high price, if you have the know how, BUT even those 50 dollars logos, provided valuable EXPERIENCE! Better than doing nothing or watching a movie. So what this guys fails to see is that 20 logos made for 50 bucks a piece have lead him to gain experience, to realize he can charge more. More than that, I'm pretty sure he gained skills too. Other than don't sell yourself too low, I don't agree with the baldie barbie.

@thefutur 7 лет назад

Baldie Barbie? That's a new one. I thought maybe Baldie Ken at least. Anyways, if you're happy doing what you're doing, keep doing it. Just trying to help those that are tired of doing work for less money than they're worth. Just my 2 cents Adrian. Good day.

@adriancobaschi8510 7 лет назад

My bad, that's a better fit, you are right :D

@thefutur 7 лет назад

Adrian Cobaschi living in a Barbie world.

@adriancobaschi8510 7 лет назад

hope you didn't take it too personal :D It was intented as a lil' joke. After seeing some more stuff from your videos, I found quite good advice from you, Baldie Ken. Thanks!

@thefutur 7 лет назад

It's all good Adrian. #BaldieKen. New nickname.

@tapp3r109 7 лет назад

Man I charged $5000 for the first website I've ever made, and I don't even know PHP.

@thefutur 7 лет назад

good for you. how much are you charging now?

@ky1e000 7 лет назад

Just charged $750 for my first, I can dream of making $5k from a website

@thefutur 7 лет назад

kplus you can get there.

@tim_iliev 7 лет назад

tapp3r Where did you find your client? Could I see the website?

@ky1e000 7 лет назад

*LoyalMoneyEmpire* thanks! I've already managed to get a large project from another client after finishing my first website. Agreed on an hourly rate this time instead, got 3 websites to do.

@tenyson4433 7 лет назад

I love this channel. The advice is incredible. Not only for just design either. Thank you so much for all this advice!!

@thefutur 7 лет назад

you are certainly welcome.

@mariahagstenmichelsen1225 7 лет назад

Great video. The style and tone of the interview reminded me of the good old interviews on "60 minutes". I'm working towards becoming a freelance graphic designer, and this video gave me a clear sense of how to take the first steps in a way where I respect myself and the profession as well. Thank you all for your great content and thank you to Ben for sharing :) Can't wait to see part 2!

@thefutur 7 лет назад

thank you so much Maria. I think Ben was great in helping me to understand what many designers go through.

@TheMessenger012 7 лет назад

I get it that we designers need to charge according to the level of creativity and time spent on the logo design considering other factors. But how do you tell the client i will take lets say $600 for the logo design? Because you as a designer need to work and if the client says he cant afford that and is going, that puts you out of business for sometime till you get another client. There you will be compelled to charge less because you don't want this new client to also go... SO HOW DO WE CHARGE MORE FOR A LOGO DESIGN PROVIDED YOU WANT TO MAINTAIN YOUR CLIENT???

@thefutur 7 лет назад

you don't want clients who don't value your work. it eats up all of your time. it makes the quality of the work go down. It makes you provide poor customer service. the root of this is because you aren't charging enough. you have to be will to say no to low paying work in order for higher paying work to come in the door.

@gorkyd7912 6 лет назад

I'd pay $700 or more for a good logo from a knowledgable designer. But a knowledgable designer should understand what a logo design is worth and not under-charge or over-charge. So if you're charging $100 I can tell from the price that I will have to do all the market research, media adaptations, branding guidelines, etc. myself or pay someone else. So I'd guess it's $100 for a couple hours of illustration, fair price. If you're charging $700 I would expect at least that you've done some market research, adaptations, and written some basic branding guidelines. But if you're charging $700 and can't tell me anything those tasks you better have some amazing illustrator skills. If you're charging $1000+ and can't tell me anything about those things I know you're over-priced because a logo that doesn't account for how it will be used will just need to be redone by someone else.

@RaysoRad 5 лет назад

I've actually done logos for free when first starting off. I thought it was a good way to build my portfolio until people started to take advantage.

@thefutur 5 лет назад

the trick is to transition out quickly from doing free work.

@RaysoRad 5 лет назад

@@thefutur what about working hourly. I got a gig where at first I agreed to hourly pay of 15 an hour because I'm still learning and thought that I could use this as a learning process but it's 4 months now and I think I'm ready to move on but it's hard to have that conversation with my employer cuz he's so nice and I don't want to offend him haha. I just want to do more and more in the field of advertising design not packaging.

@hvbrands 4 года назад

@@RaysoRad hey rachel m from 2020 lol just wanted to ask you how much you charge now? since i just started logo designing 5 months ago and m kinda in the same spot as you are chargin 80-120$ for a logo