I had a non-weapons plasma physicist boyfriend back in the day who was a "proud atheist"...he had a really violent reaction when I suggested to him that "Science" itself had become a religion, and that's why it has come to form a rivalry with institutional religion, and that they are now often mirroring each other with dogma, priesthoods, etc.
Outstanding chat. That 7 year period of Iain's of simply following curiosity isn't surprising in the least: the polymathic breadth and depth of his writing is awe inspiring. Thanks.
Thank you, Rupert Sheldrake for having Ian McGilchrist and Alex Gomez- Marin for this enlightening discussion. The beauocracies of higher learning and those that choose to think outside the box and choose a different path. Both are incredibly important, an education opening up to challenge a newness to allow the individual to come up with exciting new ideas are important. With the deepest appreciation and respect for your examples within and outside institutions.
Listening was a delightful accompaniment during work today. Wonderful to hear these two in conversation and so ably hosted by Alex (in person as well) ❤
I did the "research grant/unemployment money" thing after I quit my last job. It was an immensely valuable time, after which I found a vocation that suits my character and leaves me enough spare time to engage in my creative endeavors.
I would love to see a conversation with Iain, Rupert and Matthias Desmet on resonance. I think this would be an amazing conversation. Matthias talks about resonance, quite a bit, as a possible remedy to many psychological phenomena.
Resonance can no less apply to mass formation or psychosis. Amidst exposure to intolerable disturbance as a result of an undermining of identity/worldview the mind can seek to discharge the overwhelm to a state of limited and mitigated pain that is not relationally present or now, but dissociated to a personally & socially reinforced masking against reliving such exposure. Hence the need for scapegoat. Coherent resonance is presence or relational being. When we meet what we hate (In ourselves) there is a triggered resonance to a past that is usually preverbal or induced from a family or cultural conflict running as part of its current expression. There is a vid of Manel Ballister with Tom Cowan - hard to follow - but a unfolding story that moves from heart transplant theatre to energy healing - via the helical heart as the regulating or balancing of the organs of the body with its parts and the whole body/brain with its nesting electromagnetic environment - which is the Earth - that nests in and interacts with its Star's plasmasphere of fluctuating solar charge. It didn't have the physiological vido of the helical heart but you can search and find the unfolding of a mammalian heart on YT easily. So people who were on 'death row' in terms of queing for heart transplant regained health function via therapies of 'resonant' healing. Ideas about anything can run virtually but if we do live our curiosity and passion are hearts lose core function to become the pump they are conventionally assumed to be.
Here is a true account of something I personally experienced one morning. When I awoke I was initally shocked because I imagined I'd lost an arm. As it turned out the arm was just incredibly numb due to the fact I had slept on it and cut of the blood supply but the significant point is that it felt as if it still existed in a different position and so when I first reached out with my other hand out it just landed on the empty space next to it. This came as a great shock of course, since for a moment I really believed I'd lost my arm. But the experience then became odder because upon reaching around and discovering my real arm again I had carefully manuoevred it back until it aligned with the "phantom arm" - the place where the arm still seemed to be. What I discovered was that once "reconnected" I could operate it again. But - being of a scientific mind - I next wondered what would happen if I moved the real arm away from its phantom position again, and sure enough it went back to sleep again. That's my recollection of the incident after nearly 40 years and some details may be missing, but the point is that for a few moments I seemed to have a real arm (although numb to the point to being completely insensitive) and a "phantom arm" that remained stuck in one position and (more remarkably) that I could temporarily make these two limbs coincide and disassociate again.
Lovely! I suspect there maybe fun analogies here with other power structures, for instance politics - politicians being 'in touch' or 'out of touch' with the electorate.
@@waterkingdavid They are in touch with the part of the electorate that is immensely wealthy - called contributors (bribists) - and out of touch with everybody else ;-)
I love the fact that Rupert has the epistemic humility (and theory of mind!) to say “I don’t know…” then go on to apply a hypothesis he’s been working with for more than 30 years without assuming that Iain (or anyone else listening) know his hypothesis.
Thank you so much, Gentlemen, for this enjoyable conversation. I enjoy so much what feels like freedom in your thinking and connection-making. I’m sure this relates to your lack of narrow speciality. Please keep working away on our behalf.
Rupert sheldrake came and spoke at my school about morphic resonance. 30 years ago now,I barely knew what he was talking about. But it was exciting and fascinating none the less.
I love playing the piano with my hands crossed. Also reversing everything I can. Meaning, learning learn your stitches forward and backwards. It’s a great integrity test, and encourages freedom of movement.
Just beautiful. For many reasons I feel encouraged to remember the time spent homeschooling our two lads as so very important. They were ‘free range’ within a subtle structure. I ‘knew’ this was a good path, though incredibly risky. Thank you Alex, Iain, and Rupert for this conversation.
Such a pleasure and so stimulating to listen to these two original thinkers discussing things that really matter, and Alex is a brilliant moderator and asks the most interesting questions. Thank you. These are conversations that, unfortunately, are no longer part of my world, but there is always RU-vid to expand my mind if I look in the right places.
My all time biggest wish on RU-vid is Ian McGilChrist, Rupert Sheldrake, and anthropologist, ecologist, deep nature connection mentor Jon Young. Can’t wait to listen to this! Almost there!
Specifically, Jon Young has been using techniques to do with shifting people between vergence vision and panoramic / wide angle vision / open monitoring, as well as 360 degree listening in all directions and all levels of distance. These kinds of activities seem to be habilitating the human nervous system back to a state of the master being the right hemisphere mode of awareness and the emissary being the left hemisphere mode.
The most wonderful hour of the day, enjoying this wise and inspirational conversation. As a non-native English speaking non-academic I wish we could mobilize an increasing number of listeners for your thoughts. Perhaps by organizing (in due course) texts and explanations which would make it accessible to non-academic people?
Regards the piano playing. i intuitively want to keep melody in the right hand- in the same feeling as wanting to write with a pen with the right. I may be wrong or bias about that. And also the guitar. In fingerpicking style the right hand is possibly the most dexterous but otherwise it’s used for rhythms mainly which is counter piano. I would be interested to know about the experience of professional players who are left handed. But something tells me something completely different happens and applies to ‘music’ compared to other things.
Simply wonderful. Yes, like Mr. Marin, I feel honored every time the magnificent Rupert Sheldrake sits for a chat. Now Mr. McGilchrist is on my radar ! I did subscribe looking forward to more input!!
I am a harpsichordist, and in Baroque music the left and right hand are often playing many voices in counterpoint. So as with Bach, not at all the left hand playing chords and rhythms to accompany melodies in the right hand. On why the right hand does end up with the melody and virtuosic elaboration in most keyboard music, well most people are right-handed and so more dextrous there to begin with.
interestingly, as you know, it is the left hand, the left fingers of string players which perform for them the most intricate work. Also, I love Baroque music and I love the harpsichord. I've been blown away recently listening through Scott Ross' Scarlatti Sonata recordings. Really great. Cool comment. Thanks for it.
@@AnHebrewChild Scott Ross was a very good musician and great player of Scarlatti! And what you say about the left hand for bowed and plucked string instruments is true. For those instruments I think it is interesting that the right hemisphere/left hand (with complex sequencing of fingers and hand positions) are managing something like the geometry of melody and harmony. Meanwhile, the left hemisphere/right hand are tending to something like the the math and mechanics of producing sounds and placing them rhythmically. And then Scarlatti decides to throw in all those hand crossings!
This was a great chat!! I really appreciate this work and perspective you've come to, its really helpful to shed light on so much about my life and work ect. Im wondering if you have any more detail about the superior temporal gyrus and sulcus being associated with epiphany or aha moments??? I havent been able to find anything on google or Uni library. Would love somewhere to start if you have anything i could read.
Very fortunate, we who live with these many means of listening to other forms of us, these, reared in noble realms of higher learning, me in Mohave dust. I am as free as either ever was, and so are you, to sit in on any lecture we wish, for the past fifty years, all we missed, thats good.
I enjoyed that very much. Thanks all. It occurred to me though that the bones are a musical instrument that is traditionally played with just one hand.
Wonderful interview. Thank you, Alex! I wish Iain and Rupert had run more deeply into boyhood remembrances of Nature. For me, Natural philosophy seems most rooted in actual sense experience, likely from this youthful and free heart-place of sensual consciousness. Ragged, unschooled Curiosity ramped to high vibration. One day revisit such feeling places? Such nature stories, I think, could inspire parent and caregivers to say--"Go Outside and play"; and to set healthy boundaries too...permitting natural "gasp" at climbing trees and engaging in other perceived dangers.
24.15. So much depth about being open to contrary thoughts at such high level of intellect🙏🙏 Salute to both of you ... Please help humanity by validating and thinking about the basic Existential Reality.
Yes indeed how lovely to be able to share with mines like this, however we can also share by exploring our own consciousness, Perhaps meditation and other mind expanding occupations
Also, I have tried to learn piano and what Rupert raises had certainly occurred to me, because the strumming right hand of the guitarist is surely more rhythmic and the left hand more weighted toward the execution of the melody; however it did seem right, natural, for the left hand to be dealing preferentially with the more rhythmic bass notes and the right with the melody 🤷🏻♂ I’m not sure why that isn’t the case with guitar, though I think Mark Knopfler is indeed... let me get this right... I think he is left handed, but plays what is normally considered right handed guitars.
20.21 Beautiful explanation of the interconnected thoughts. Every thought is as much an action as walking. Understanding the flow of thoughts and connected with each other due to the quantum entanglement.
Such an enlightening meeting of extraordinary minds! Three truly exceptional thinkers vitally important to the survival and flourishing of our species. Adding John Vervaeke to this mix would've made it truly riotous in the best way. Maybe next time. Thank you for this!
Regarding the piano, our left hemisphere modeling insisted that the frequencies go in sequence from the left to the right. So we are stuck with the bass notes to our visual left side and the treble notes to the visual right side. On guitar we are lucky that our left brain and right hand strums the rhythm for us.
Increasing specialisation and the publish or perish imperative in higher education has created experts - X, an unknown quantity, and Spurt, a drip under pressure - not conducive to a good learning environment. A wonderfully interesting and enjoyable discussion.
"Universites should be a refuge for battling geniuses; they have become infested with agreeable midwits." Evolutionary Psychologist, Dr. Edward Dutton. Aka, The Jolly Heretic.
Excellent talk. After studying ecology and regeneration for several years, I came to the same conclusion as Allan Savory: that if we could just get people to think and act holistically, we could solve all the problems in the world... And then years later, after reading Besel Van Der Kolks book, 'the body keeps score' along with at the same time, coincidentally reading the book, 'my stroke of insight' (both recommended) I came to the realization that developmental trauma is preventing people from accessing the whole of their systems. In the repair and mitigation of trauma influences on development, movement and physical experience are so invariably critical. Which really speaks to the inclusion of music in "education"..
My concern is , " Will artificial intelligence be a help or a hindrance in the process of creative destruction?" In it's present (primitive) form it keeps using an appeal to authority arguments.
Dear Ian, have you seen the article in New Scientist about a month ago about the discovery of the electrome? The researchers filmed a tadpole developing over 24 hours and used a light sensitive film or something like that and saw to their amazement a glow of light caused by an electric current emanating from the tadpole which seemed to mark the point at which the eye of the tadpole should form as it then immediately started to form at that point. They manipulated the light/current and the eyes formed in a different ("wrong") place.
If a piano had first been built in Baghdad the keys would probably have had the keyboard arranged around the other way. Hilarious. I once watched an entertainer play a piano stood on his head ….. that was hilarious as well. For me Rupert has worked out that more things are unexplainable than Iain has.
"everything knows everything about everything else, all the time" Mae Wan Ho said this, as well as it is something that is said about the electric universe. She called it quantum coherence, and in the electric universe model, it's just called the way it works.
17.11 The brain is not the place where the encoding is done. The understanding contemplating evaluating experiencing all happens in the life atom which is the missing piece that we need to discuss and understand 🙏🙏🙏
Talk of the motor coordination achieved by split brain patients reminds me of the case of the conjoined twins Abby and Brittany. They each control one arm out of their combined two, and similarly one leg out of two, managing to walk, drive a car etc with remarkable fluidity. And I have read that even for individuals who are entirely separate, there is a tendency for their brain waves to synch up if they are working together on a task, which perhaps facilitates effective cooperation. It has been suggested - ‘Differential contributions of the two human cerebral hemispheres to action timing’ Pflug et al 2019 - that the left hemisphere is more accurate than the right at executing fast movements and the situation is reversed for slow movements. So the keyboard design accommodates the natural tempo preferences of the hemispheres.
This was a wonderful discussion I am so enthralled by it I will listen to it again and take notes. My real education never took place in school but in the boxing gyms of East London the etymology of the word educate means to draw out the pupil's natural innate abilities and mine was to fight. Over the years I have read eclectically asking those big questions about where we come from, why are we here etc so I consider myself to be a natural philosopher a lover not of science but of wisdom. What intrigued me about Roger Sperry's split-brain research was that when they severed the corpus callosum sometimes the person would become two people as a hidden personality would emerge this is explored in the work of Bernardo Kastrup who argues we are all alters in Mind at large and in the hypothesis of Anthony Peake who writes about our daemon or higher self.
A good education really requires learning facts and skills AND creativity. None of these are mutually exclusive. Matters of degree and emphasis require careful orchestration. There are no absolutely pat formulas for this, but there are important guidelines. One of them is to always keep a balance between real open-mindedness and critical thinking to avoid either an "anything is possible" or a cynically skeptical take on all things. A healthy exposure to a wide range of experiences, ideas and peoples is key to sustaining that balance.
I wonder when this was recorded...I´d think the work of Michael Levin would be mentioned, has shown the existence of that mysterious "field" which gives purpose to the growth of cells. If I recall correctly: any cell/group of cells can form any shape, (organism)if provided with the electric impulse associated with that shape. Question would now be: where do those electrical currents originate?
Thank you for this view on science and philosophy, and in particular the institutions. I find it concerning, on a philosophical level, that individual freedom is stifled within our institutions unless you are already 'in' as it were. I have a Masters and want to go on to do my doctorate so looking at what options there are. I am working as a psychotherapist and therefore have applied experience as well as academic application in the area I want to research. I have struggled to find an institution and supervisor to consider looking at a proposal because it is not necessarily based on the research interests of the supervisor/s at the intuition, and the institution itself, it has to be based on very specific areas they are already working on (i.e. no scope for new ideas). For example, a particular university here in the UK has said to me my research sounds very interesting but the supervisor cannot take on anymore students (understandable limitations). However my point is that the criteria indicates that if prospective students research ideas do not fit with any of the supervisors research interests, they can not accommodate you. I work in private practice and have a wealth of evidence/knowledge at my fingers tips albeit not in a controlled environment/lab however but I am in a position to contribute to the wider research in my field but I am not being encouraged to. It is such a shame we are at the mercy of funding and supervisors own research interests/limitations where philosophical curiosity is almost non-existent. I do not wish to discredit supervisors by any means however it is very limiting as to what you can and can't put forward. My proposal includes hypnosis and I think this is also going to make it more difficult, although that may be an unfounded assumption on my behalf. I will persevere!
It may be true as Ian says that college attendance for high school graduates does not result in a market ready ‘product’ where newly graduated students can be placed in a setting that earns income for an employer thereby securing their own salary, but rather a student fresh from a four year often stands at a quandary on how to proceed and follow up with action and momentum. It is my thought that there is rarely a better way to spend young adult timeframe of 18 to 21years of age than in a contemplative study of any field of study
I think I manifested this conversation with my mind. I wrote to both of these gentleman a week or so ago asking for long shot meeting. After reading many of their books I have thought that they are both extraordinary minds that have several crossovers. Sadly, I don't think either person really grasps the significance of the other person's ideas. Interesting conversation nonetheless.
...and here I was, thinking ; being a long term biped (thus far), motor neurons firing in one side , feeds back to the sensory neurons of the other via brain stem ...so quickly too. Could explain the somatic ...but the cerebral ? Perhaps any "resonance" , whatever that may be ,is a much slower "bowl". If so ,a satisfactory explanation for my own cat-like reflexes despite being a bit slow upstairs.... A circus clown , teaching juggling ,told me once: "Move fast....but think, slow." Look straight ahead.
8.53 Quantum entangelment very nicely explained... I can explain the same so clearly once you understand the existence of the formless the invisible (life atom )and the physical stuff made up of physical atoms 🙏
Sure would like to have asked , what is a psychosis and psychopath ? Great discussion ..R S. please Recall story about '''Intellectual Phase Locking '''..
The basis for belonging to a movement is not to be rigidly set by rules that are set with the good intentions of seeking to prevent the evils reoccurring (that is what seeds and sets their reiteration).
Really great, as was suggested several times before, to have these kind of exchanges. Now for something completely different !!!, Extend these exchanges to for example with Bernardo Kastrup and Federico Faggin ( beta oriented science) and several others. As Federico stated in one of his interviews , this all is about a different kind of WELTANSCHAUUNG a different kind of very deeply understanding and experiencing of ALL, in principle, both individually and macro/cosmologicsl as ar as possible for us as HUMANS
Mirror neurons maybe? As in one born with no arms having phantom limbs. Humans being the imitators that we are, and one born with no arms may during life mentally imitate others that have arms and mirror neurons take effect and give a phantom limb.
The problem with the resonance model as i see it is that you should see effects from interference from other sources. Other peoples heads close to yours, magnetic fields from devices. Etc. Fascinating problem though ! I do like how Rupert thinks but I'm so not into morphic resonance.
