Ian Rankin talks to Anne Perry (Juliet Hulme) 

As I watch this a second time, I feel more angry. Her answer to the question what is her personal experience with taking responsibility, she proceeds to immediately deflect and mitigate it: she started with an excuse, "when I was 13 I became quite seriously ill"... " and when I was 15 committed a crime . . I was an accessory . . I was involved." Finally, the interviewer had to ask directly, what was the crime? "I helped someone kill another person." Who was that person? "Their mother." So anonymous. Not even "her mother." All very detached, distancing language that removes her from the actual brutal murder itself, even though she dealt the same horrific blows to her victim. She didn't just stand there. She didn't just help someone else. She beat a woman to death; crushed her face in, until she was unidentifiable except by the rest of her body. Dozens and dozens of blows. I cannot read Anne Perry's books, not because of what she did at 15, but what she has done during all this time since, which is doing what she does best: creating a story. In her story, she's not so culpable, the crime not so gruesome and tragic, the tragedy was hers instead. This interview was chilling, in my opinion.

Made a career out of murder: thinking about it, planning it, talking about it, writing about it, and doing it

She’s extremely smart, charming and careful in what she says, just like most psychopaths are. In fact, when asked about this, in every interview she has done, she barely shows any remorse, all she does is repeat the same excuses again and again: “I was scared”, “my parents were divorcing”, “my best friend was suicidal”, “I was drugged”, as to exonerate herself, to place the blame on someone else, but she never talks about her victim, or how sorry she feels for what she did, or how wrong Pauline and her were. After the murder, a psychiatrist asked her if she felt any remorse, and she said she didn’t. I bet she still feels the same after all these years, although she will never admit it of course because she has a career to protect. This lady is a monster and the fact that the murder happened a long time ago doesn’t change anything, some people never change and to me is clear that she didn’t.

5 years for killing someone in cold blood - pathetic

She has no remorse. She thinks only of herself. The fact that she is a crime writer is chilling to me, she doesn't mind reliving murder over and over.

She's really trying to make herself sound like she was forced into that situation. Her and Pauline were seen laughing as they washed blood off, she mocked the police while being questioned days after the murder. She showed no remorse whatsoever. If she did it solely as obligation to her friend, she'd have been somewhat upset. She wasn't. She was all for killing Pauline's mom. Just as trapped in that fantasy world as Pauline was. She's basically saying "I was a victim too! My friend guilt-tripped me into doing this!" That wasn't the case at all.

She is so intellectual about her vicious crime, detached, analytical and unemotional... Sounds sociopathic to me

The irony of being a crime writer, writing exclusively about murder, never occurred to her until other people pointed it out. Yeah, right. You can tell from her comment about"pulling a rabbit from a hat" how gleeful and bemused she is by it.

Watching Kate Winslet portray her is a thrilling experience

She tries to make herself look so innocent but she murdered someone and I know she was too young for death penalty but they shouldn't have been let out of prison

Absolute sociopath. Externalizing blame, unable to feel remorse, highly intellgent, charismatic, manipulative, leading qualities, lack of empathy... I even think she planted the idea to kill into Pauline's mind, even though Pauline thought it was her own.

She's not being honest. 1. The girls were able to speak in their defence but their lawyers were afraid their arrogance would turn the jury further against them, and 2. Hulme was in hospital 9 months before the murder took place and was on no medication that altered her judgement (as she claims) 3. Her letters from jail showed nothing of remorse or that she wanted to redeem herself, just of a self-absorbed little brat. The way she shamelessly uses her crime to sell her books is disgusting.

I know she was only 15 at the time. But, her reaction was very strange during her trials. She was smiling to the cameras all the time. I believe Pauline shows a lot of remorse. Pauline refuses to speak to authorites and lives in a simple life today. But, I don't understand how could Juliet become a writer of criminal stories with her past. I mean a normal person who committed a terrible crime would have a breakdown to write anything about crime. Additionally, she does an interview about it so calmly. Sociopath's mind matches her. She still does not admitt she had fault. She also blamed the victim. The victim was conservative at the time. In 1954, conservative people were common. But, nothing convinces someone to kill because the parent forbided a love. There were so many forbidden love in past and couples don't kill their parents. All they would do is running away.

"When I was 13 I became seriously ill, oh, and when I was 15 I committed a crime." I love the way she inserts that so casually. No feeling whatsoever.

'Oh, she was awake' The way she said that sent shivers down my spine!

I like how she tries to minimise her role as much as possible... "as an accessory ", nope, convicted of MURDER, "I helped somebody kill another person ". Very vague and full of excuses. That is NOT TRUE REMORSE OR ACCEPTING RESPONSIBILITY!

She basically blames everything on Pauline which is quite sad, actually.

Your right. 5 and a half years is not too long for taking a way life .

Let's cut thru the bullshit here: 1. Minors can testify for themselves; it was her lawyers who didn't put her on the stand. Probably bc, according to the ones in contact with them at the time, she showed zero remorse for her actions. 2. She was instrumental in planning the murder with Pauline. She wasn't along for the ride and saw that there was no other solution. She could have stopped it if she had wanted to. 3. She also tries to blame it on the drugs given to her for TB, but those were the usual ones prescribed at the time, not experimental drugs, and she was off them for 9 months before the murder. She likes to rewrite the past, which is convenient for her that Pauline doesn't want any limelight.

2:04 "Oh, she was awake." Is that a smile?!

This woman is a liar. Killing Paulines mother wouldn't have stopped you from leaving the country. Sorry, but she was just as in love and obsessed with pauline.

God it's so creepy how calmly she talks about murdering someone. WTF? How can anyone read or buy her books, knowing this shit? She doesn't show regret even now! You'd think she would cry, or at least show some remorse.

So nice of her to put all the blame on her friend and describe herself as a “helpless accessory”. Wtf.

Juliet Hulme is an enigma. I am caught in a dilemma with her and I find it difficult to pick up one of her books and read it. When I was fifteen, I'd have to say I did things I wished I hadn't. However, I never committed murder and I knew that it would have been wrong to do so. If a friend told me she was going to commit suicide, then I think I would have told someone of this. We weren't there. We just don't know what was going on for Anne Perry. This is as serious as it gets.

They're talking an awful lot about her, & her words are "me, me, me, I, I, I" & "now for me it no longer exists." I know she's being interviewed, but come on, she TOOK A LIFE. Let's talk about the woman whose head she & her friend bashed in. Let's remember that woman was a mother with two other living children. There is nothing not utterly selfish about this murder. I've read several books & articles about the case, & I have never pitied these girls. They were weird, alright, but that's no excuse. Now as a grown woman she still doesn't seem to truly comprehend what they did, what she did. Is it the mind's attempt at self-preservation? A survival mechanism? In light of more modern murders or attempted murders of teen girls by other girls supposedly their friends, like the recent Slender Man attack by (pre-teens!) there's something to be said for "folie á deux" but in reading about the crime & the weeks prior, they were completely aware of what they were doing.

only one way to deal with cold blooded murderers, and it doesn't involve forgiveness

read a great book on this subject, "Anne Perry & the Murder of the Century". I do think Anne Perry is a sociopath who has never experienced real remorse. For instance, later in life she admitted that she never thought of her victim, and she explained it as being because she (the victim) was a stranger to her (not realizing that only a complete sociopath would have no empathy). I think her parents are partly responsible for rejecting her throughout her childhood though.

The joke is on these two monsters. They brutally killed a trusting defenseless woman to keep from being separated. Yet they ended up being separated with no recourse and have to live with the guilt of such a crime. Anne Perry is a calculated manipulator but I think Pauline suffers.

She makes me feel sick.

After serving their sentences...5 yrs! They each served 5 yrs for bludgeoning the girl’s mother to death. And I read the Christchurch newspaper for the trials. The girls were giggling, doodling, and irreverent. Sickening.

She's full of shit. She didn't speak at her trial because the defence lawyers thought her lack of remorse and arrogance would harm her chances with the jury. Also, she had ceased treatment for TB nine months earlier. She has never expressed remorse or regret, and everything she does say is only linked to her own suffering.

Is it me or did this woman actually kind of sneaked in a bit of a smile when asked what exactly the crime had been? I can't believe I never knew she was a monster! I would've never bought 1 of her books!

I've read many Anne Perry books, and cannot believe that she has not faced her own culpability. The intense moral debate involving her characters behaviors is exquisite. She takes great pains to imbue them with moral failings as well as nobility. I believe that her own horrific actions forced her to see humanity as it is...flawed. She certainly did commit a horrendous crime that many of us may not be capable of...but we'll never know as each of our circumstances are different.

It was bloody lucky for her that her quickwitted father rushed home and burnt her diary, before the police got their hands on it. So only Pauline's retrieved and read . A hands on murderer, with a controlling personality, and has tough as old boots

Regardless of whether people feel that she has adequately accepted responsibility for her crimes or was aptly punished for them, one must concede that she is, for all intents & purposes, a contributing, non- threatening member of society. That's certainly more pragmatically beneficial than a focus on long-term retribution.

Why is the interviewer smirking and relaxed while asking her these questions? He almost seems intrigued by her or supportive of her in a way, like he isn’t disturbed at all by the fact that she had no issue taking someone else’s life. I hate that she says she’s paid the price and moved on, as if 5 years in prison cleans the slate. So disgusting.

Besides her unability to show remorse she has this hypnotical charisma which is typical for sociopaths and attrackts devoted, lonely people.. In the documentary "Inside Anne Perry" we see that she still is surrounded by a little household of sad-eyed, devoted people who seem absolutely found of her.. Frightful!

She talks about moving on after the fact when in actuality she never seemed to care about what she had done in the first place. When you do more research and look into their behavior during the trial, it’s very obvious that what they had done didn’t seem to matter to them.

She was quoted saying hysterically afterwards saying "I'd have to be an idiot not to know murder is against the law!"

"Oh she was awake" what! The tone, tf psychic

I found it fairly odd when she started with "At 13 I became quite seriously ill". She had tuberculosis. Tuberculosis is not mind altering that causes one to commit murder. And then she goes on to say that she was an accessory. She seems to be trying to distance herself further as someone that is an "accessory to murder" is somehow less to blame than a murderer. Reading trial scripts it shows that Juliet/Ann had taken the stocking and smashed it into the poor woman's face along with Pauline.

A lot of duping delight here. Definitely displays sociopathic traits.

The interviewer looks scared shitless throughout.

I detect the glow of pride as she reveals that she committed murder. Her eyes and her mouth seem to have a slight grin. I think she sees her crime as an accomplishment and seems to be trying to profit from her noteriety.

Well, any of us true crime enthusiasts can tell she isn't THAT traumatized by the crime. Only thing can say is at least she turned any other urges of killing into a career of crime novels..makes sense ,since when she was at that age, she( and her friend/,lover) wrote a few books,plays and poems ....one of the most bizarre cases I've ever heard....

What a joke how she got 5 years. She got away with murder. She should be in prison for the rest of her life. Not some writer.

Why Juliet didn’t tell Dr Bennett that she felt trapped by Pauline back in 1954? Instead she told him that she’ll kill anyone who threatens their friendship.

Heavenly Creatures is not reality; it is a movie based loosely on real events. Anne Perry's novels have a strong theme of redemption. I find it interesting how many are judging her without looking more closely at what she has written, at what clearly comes from the heart. This crime was a very long time ago, when she was quite young. I'm not sure what people are expecting of her now to "prove" herself. Read! It is enlightening, and not the work of an evil person, regardless of past evils.

Dr Reginald Medlicott, the psychiatrist who spent time with the girls at different times, stated that the diagnosis of the two, ( then girls ) in the time leading up to the matricide being committed and immediately after was one of psychosis. Due to extreme trauma and stress going on in their lives at the time. Sir Peter Jackson and Fran Walsh also portrayed that very well in the movie 'Heavenly Creatures'. It is grossly injust and punitave for people to now jump on her for the way she tries to explain how she felt as a traumatised schoolgirl, when she is now in her seventies.

regarded as a complete monster... because you're a murderer... you'll always be a murderer...you should've never been released from prison.

But all was in vain because Juliet and Pauline didn't get to stay together as by killing Paulines mother they ended up being seperated anyway in different prisons for their crime. I think that no matter how desperate you are, it is not normal behaviour to decide to kill another person as a solution (truely kind people do not kill) but the intensity of their relationship and societies and families judgment on their relationship I think made them completely irrational and out of control. Did they honestly think they wouldn't be caught though? It's good that Hulme has shown remorse and has made an effort to rebuild her life but that horrifically bad karma she has done can never ever be erased.

Her talk about redemption is self-absorbed and stunted in my opinion. Redemption comes when you realize the immeasurable value of the life you took. It is primarily a realization about the worth of the victim, not about oneself.

She committed a Brutal Murder (bashed someone's head in with a Brick) ??? WTF ? ? ? (crazy world we live in). "Was the mother awake...?" Oh yes, she was awake,...this was the Best Solution!"

She was 15, a child. She went to prison. She clearly says that was a good thing. Since being released she's been a contributing, law-abiding member of society for 45+ (?) years. More prison or ending the life of a 15 year old will not bring the victim back.

Five yrs for murder is light even as a teen

4:59 Justice is not vengeance. She was removed from society because she was a danger to society. Harmful actions must have consequences, or the life she helped to take meant nothing.

I was 15 once, I had many fantasy's, I believed the stream at the bottom of our garden led to a magical place, I also believe that these two intelligent creative children in an intense relationship did a terrible crime, but they were still children. That time must be so distant to Anne Perry now, it was like another person, and in a way she was, a very young girl. Whether she seems remorseful or not, she has lived with her actions, accepted them and moved on.

2:11 Why is she smiling when asked if she jumped on Honora?!

(comment part 4) To become a victorian crime novelist and a true devoted mormon, for Ms Perry, certainly was a way to express and exorcize years of personal turmoil. For Ms Nathan (Pauline), taking care of handicaped children in a riding school, totally devoting herself to catholism became also her own way to find redemption - as her sister Wendy explained in an interview, years ago. (continue next)

Seems a very cold and detached person to me. No sign of remorse. Smiling while re-telling her criminal past involving a brutal murder. How could any publisher accept her books knowing what she did?!!!

Five and a half years in prison is not "settling the debt". You know at 15 planning and murdering someone is WRONG. She's lucky she's had the privilege to move on, unlike Pauline's mother. So wrong

She does not have a conscious... She just knows that she has to pretend to have one because otherwise people would judge her 🤷🏽‍♀️

I don't believe I saw your facial expression change once in this interview. You brought the murder up as though you were only talking about going for a walk down the road and stealing a candy bar. What a monster.

She only got 5 years for her appalling crime!

I know other people have made this point already but I can't stand the way she claims not to be making excuses but describes herself as "an accessory". In her own 1954 statement to police she confessed, "I took the brick and hit her too". That's far more than being an accessory. Even taking into account that some people simply can't emote and show their feelings, she appears to have no feelings to show anyway: "For me it no longer exists". She doesn't appear to have matured from the girl who snickered during the trial, "The old girl took a lot more killing than we thought". Although Pauline's actions were equally repugnant, she appears to show far more remorse simply by remaining silent. Think how much money she could have made by agreeing to be interviewed about the murder when she was "unmasked" as Hillary Nathan back in the '90s .

Very very interesting. Fabulously interviewed , Ian Rankin.

You just have to look at the way they behaved during the trial and the big smiles they had on their faces. If Anne Perry was truely sorry for the killing and only did it because there was no other way, why did she have to behave so arrogantly during the trial.

The completely disturbing aspect of this interview is how she has psychologically/emotionally divorced herself from the act and dead. She is continuing to murder with each new book she writes...only this way it's legal (and makes ALOT of money!). As to the question of only 5+ years of jail time...I don't know about New Zeeland law of the 50's but in today's American legal system, if a juvenile commits an especially horrendous crime, the prosecuting attorney CAN ask the court to try the juvenile(s) as an adult. Was this possible in New Zeeland in the 50's? If so, that prosecutor should have his "pee-pee" whacked! If not, "never mind"! This has happened more than once here in Tulsa county in the last 15 years!!!

Juliet Hulme always denied they were lesbians but I think they were. So she wasn't being truthful.

Look at her shadow on the seat behind her.. That's what she really looks like.

The two girls appeared to be in a folie a deux situation. A mental delusional state. But now she seems a bit too ok with what happened. I wonder how she makes sense of it.

She looks so heartless and empty. So logical and factual in her account of how she murdered an innocent woman. This lady sends shivers down my spine.

I surely hope she wasn't paid for this interview??? 🤔

I appreciate Ms. Perry's honesty and her discussion of the spiritual responsibility concerning the choice of being who you want to be. Who you want to be is a choice that you commit to and I say hats off to her. She is a talented writer who, when young, during a period of great turmoil, made a mistake that she ultimately paid for.

What was she supposed to do? Start crying? Her age was not an excuse but a reason. I don't think she has to show remorse every single time someone brings up the action. She has probably told 1000's of people the same story. It's water off a ducks back now. Back in those days there was only one murder per year in New Zealand. It was a huge story then and still is to this day. If this happened in the states you would barely hear of it again.

Ironic isn't it... she claims she is remorseful and yet still can't own up to her role in this murder... claims to have taken responsibility but actually has not .

She says they weren't allowed to say anything during the trial?! She and Pauline didn't mind making jokes about it and giggling! Juliet said in a staged whisper "the old girl took more of a killing than we thought!".

just because she has aged 60 years does not change the fact that she is responsible for ending someone's life.

It was an extremely good movie.. It explored a teenage girls crush with each other and the over-riding desire not to be separated.. Not a lesbian or sexual crush but a natural thing that should been able to play out.. Unfortunately it resulted in murder.

There's nothing brave about her speaking out , she's only doing so in order to move on like its all very tiresome. When you see a person in agony or cut etc your reaction would be to help save them .

We've seen this before, in personalities that would not do the deed alone, but with a partner, their chemistry is combined, to do a killing.

The poor victim was held down by the throat and beaten over the head over FORTY times! She seems very dismissive of that.

R.I.P Honora Rieper, the victim 🕊🕯🙏🏻

I feel like she is lying. She was a lesbian with Pauline it said in her diary.

I don't think age is an excuse, I just think it needs to be taken into account. And who can tell how much time is appropriate for someone like this? I just think that a long sentence would've broken down their ability to be able rebuild themselves. So for that reason I think 5 1/2 years isn't a bad decision. An older person who has learnt how to control their feelings and has a sense of what's right and wrong should be held more accountable. But that doesn't make what they did any less senseless

Both creeps repeatedly bashed that poor woman over the head with a brick. Who cares if they were minors, these monsters, they each should have gotten a life sentence. 5 years for that kind of brutality, what kind of justice is that? And just the fact that this woman is able to give interviews and talk about her unspeakable crime, just like that, so matter-of-factly, claiming she has paid her dues! This is appalling.

I read some of her "Victorian" novels and appreciated them - and was so taken aback finding out she was one of those two girls. I think they entangled themselves in a folie-à-deux, Perry under great pressure to find a solution, also with regard to time pressure. Imagine that parents can just decide moving a family to another country!!! - and no regard to their children. My own parents did that, my mother took it out on me (I was 22 months old at the time, but do remember the flight and the disappearance of everything I was used to). I had to grow up - later go to school - in a country where I was entirely unwanted. And far too young to protest or have any effect on the madness.

"this is not who I want to be" = this is not what I want people to think of me. There's no genuine remorse there. She talks about her incarceration purely in terms of a debt that she needed to repay to re-enter society and become the respectable person she wanted to be. Nothing she says carries any hint of soul searching or conscience or contrition. She very cleverly makes very shallow excuses as for why she commited the crime, without making it overt that she's doing so. On the contrary she makes it sound like she's doing the exact opposite. All of this is consistent with a high level of narcissism.

I've met some kids who have been in prison for murder. It's true that when these things happen, there are many factors in it, and not just one person to blame. Anne Perry and Pauline Parker were very disturbed, troubled kids who made a horrible mistake. Some killers can be rehabilitated. Like her. Some cannot. Writers use what they know, and Anne's life happens to have more darkness than others.' But she did her time, and she has a right to be who she is.

She wasn't allowed to defend herself how is that legal

She could be the master mind due her hight intelligence for the mistery

Curious but why do people think that she deserves a second chance ????

There is no way you can argue her being under the age of 30 is an excuse for what she did. There is no magic age of innocence when you have a plan and execute it in the way that these girls did. This isn't a matter of surviving by not dwelling on the past, and I certainly do not need to "get over" anything. I sincerely hope that nothing happens to your mother, but I can guarantee that you'll mourn her loss no matter how many years have passed.

Her time at mt Eden was soft. If she was 18 she would have been hung. Both girls knew as minors they would avoid the death penalty, and admitted if they were over 18 they wouldn't have done it

How shameless and remorseless this woman can get

Why did she only get 5 and a half years? There's people out there who get 30 odd years for murder.. Doesn't make a difference how old she is, she's still a murderer.

It's interesting how she exhibits the same defense mechanisms as regular non rich/famous murderers. She's an "accessory" to "help" her friend kill "ANOTHER person". She says it as if she was a third party. It does NOT work that way! She was convicted which means SHE MURDERED a person! She makes excuses for her behavior before she answers the question, and makes it seem as if her friend's threat of suicide exonerates her. She "pays" with 5 years and "wouldn't rebuild herself" if in longer!

Helped kill her friends mother, then moves overseas with her parents. Her lover is alone. 5 years is no where near long enough. That wouldn't happen today. She is very blasé about it all.

Can five and a half years in prison make up for killing a human and a woman who was good to her. I don't think so. I know teenagers think differently from adults, but even they knew that killing Pauline's mother was completely wrong, an evil act. Perry was a young woman when she came out of prison. She had all her adult years to build a very sucessful life for herseld, however her friend's mother's life was taken away by these two rotten, evil girls. When I knew who she really was I put Perry's book in the bin and wouldn't finish it. That's where her books belong.

this woman is frightening. "i was an accessory to a murder" she is a murderer. she has no feelings of remorse. does she even feel at all?