I've never heard such honesty from someone who is online to promote products. You are obviously in this trade to promote the skill of guitar building. Of course, I'd known this since watching you in your garage....but this video is proof if you ever needed it. Excellent work.
I feel your pain Ben, esp as they're meant to be top quality. To me they appear to have outsourced manufacture and packing to a third party! the 1st few batches that were sent for approval were inspected & passed, and then when allowed to ship direct they send poorly made and finished items. Just return the lot for a full refund and written apology for wasting your time & money.
The really sad thing is the vast majority of customers will never use the Allen keys. I’ve lost track of how many tools I’ve bought that come with cheap Allen keys and I’ve never used any of them as I’ve got a nice set of quality P handled Allen keys that are a pleasure to use. I’m sure I’m not alone in this.
I've had the ibex palm plane for years, it's incredibly uncomfortable to use the blade digs into my hand. I now have two Stanley squirrel tail planes and they're so much better. You're spot on with your comments.
I have a friend who made patterns for her violin planes and had them cast in brass. The fellow that ran the foundry was so taken with her project that he cast them for the cost of the brass. They were so small he would put them in the mold with other big pieces.
I bought the same purfling cutter from your US-competitor 15 years ago and it came in the same bag with the same allen key. The tool itself is great but it was also scratched and dented when it arrived here in Europe. The damage was not severe enough to send it back but it was enough so that I still remember it after all these years. I can't believe that this is still a problem.
I have the two smalest Ibex finger planes with the thumb wheel that work great for carving my F5 mandolin back and top. They are for carving then use a sharpened curved scraper for the final shaping and smoothing.
Well that's pretty disappointing - in this day and age it's not hard to pack a product properly and still offer a competitive price. Thanks for another excellent video Ben - I'm feeling your pain!!
this was also my first thought when I saw the Finger-Planes. He could sell these in a limited series, so well done are they made. Better than everything IBEX has send to Ben
I love the channel. Have been following for the last 9 years. I appreciate the attention to detail and I fully understand everything you talked about. I ordered a few things from Crimson back in2015 and I was disappointed with the quality of the templates I got. I wrote the shop about it but I never got a reply. I think things changed since then, good.
I feel your pain Ben. Don't spend too much time on getting annoyed. It's not healthy. I've done that too and I need to stop and focus on nicer things. Let's show the world a better way to do things.. We're not alone and you're living proof that focus on quality is a success formula.
The world really needs affordable violin/cello/archtop planes that aren't crap. For my current archtop build, I ended up buying and modifying a cheap wooden block plane because I just couldn't justify the cost of the brass ones.
I wanted to make a carved top electric, the best I could find was the Veritas thumb plane. This was a couple years and one house move ago, and I've still not made that guitar.
I feel your pain. When I was starting out, there were $$$$ tools for guitar making (like Stew Mac) or you took cheap hardware store crap that took a lot of work to modify or refine. The annoying thing is that now generic mass produced older tools are being sold as rare "vintage" collector pieces. You see ridiculous Ebay auctions for rusty wooden spokeshaves and Stanley block planes with chipped castings. Even rusty used plane blades are now "collectors' items".
Looking at those planes makes me aprieciate my Veritas miniture block plane even more. IT has been suprisingly usefull for something I brought as an extra at the same time as my block plane. Very hand in getting into tight spaces and working on small peices of wood.
As a Canadian that has been a fan of Lee Valley from before the Veritas range, their stuff is a bit pricey but very precisely and thoughtfully made from quality materials. The only thing is the aesthetic. Veritas goes for function and simplicity over "pretty". They have a few reproductions of vintage tools but Lie-Neilsen planes look prettier on the shelf. But I have never been disappointed with one of their tools except for the hit on the wallet when I walk out of the store.
@@tiacho2893 I agree that Lie Nielsen make prettier reproductions of vintage tools. However, I like the functional aesthetic of the Veritas range, they have a look that is all their own. The Bailey pattern plane that Stanley made, would have also seemed utilitarian when it was first introduced. They became classics as time went on, and we've now accepted that's what planes are supposed to look like. I love them, I have far more than I need. But my Norris is both prettier and objectively better at being a smoothing plane.
@@Mikey__R For low angle bevel up I think Veritas is better. The main problem I have with Lie Nielsen is that they are a tad to expensive. I would rather by an old Stanley and retore it than lay out that sort of money even if factoring my labour meens the actual cost is the same or more.
@@martinrwolfe I have a Stanley 60 1/2, I was rather disappointed with it. The frog is partly constructed from the pressed steel lateral adjuster which is far more flimsy than it needs to be. Lee Valley have a much improved version, with their Norris style adjuster. It's on my wishlist. Edit: I read back your reply, and now I realise we actually agree! Yes, Veritas bevel up planes are great!
I've got three Ibex planes one is 30 years old and the other two are newer. I never checked them for scratches and just started using them. I'm an acoustic maker so they get used a lot and all seem to do the job really well
I completely understand where you're coming from. On one hand you're buying a high end tool that is supposed to be perfect with polished brass and shiny steel. Not scratched brass and grubby steel covered in polishing compound. On the other hand, it's a tool. It's supposed to do work, it's not for putting on the mantle piece. If the scratches don't effect its use (and you're going to put more scratches on it through use) then what does it matter? Get making something pretty with it. As a seller though, you want your customers to have an experience when they first get their new toy and you want that experience to be perfect and not spoiled. So many of these issues are caused through carelessness and stupidity.
I wonder if the difference in color is due to the differences between brass / gun metal and bronze. Because of the alloy used to make them, they each have a different color, obviously. Maybe thats why the difference. I too would be very upset to have loose steel parts banging around in the tools I purchased causing the finish to be scratched and the plane irons being dinged. I would photograph them and send them back. As an aside, the larger ones could make a decent infill, if you found a piece of wood you liked. I'd love to see that done. It seems like they're ready for that kind of treatment.
Ben, i have a set of ibex plane for 30years and I can say the finish was not jewelry like but it was perfect for the task. To make one of these type of tool you need to setup a investment casting process and a fine machinist to do the post casting operations. In our modern days, you probably use metal 3d printer with similar if not better results. A2 62-64 R.C. steel for the blade with a mirror polish at the cutting edge. Boom you can produce your own plane(well a bit simplistic explanations but feasible).
I have been using Ibex for years with no QC issues. Looks like someone has allowed the accountants to have too much say in the manufacturing... very sad to see.
This is why I made my own Purfling Pick, Purfling Thicknesser, Rosette Chanel Cutter, Purfling Chanel Scriber and Plate Carving planes. Everything in that box plus a lot more. If you make instruments and use hand tools then it's both necessary and logical to make your own specialised tools.
I bought both an Ibex palm plane and the finger plane for carving archtop guitar plates about 20 years ago and I agree that I was disappointed with the quality, considering what I'd paid for them. The blades needed fully sharpening (Which, given the cost, you would have thought would have been done at the factory , even if they just taken it up to a point where the customer just had to do the final hone ) as they only looked to have been 'ground' on a grinding wheel and that was it, finished, the edge still had small nicks out of it where the wheel had taken some of the edge away. And I agree about the blade digging into the palm, especially when, as you say, it's used for hogging out large amounts of timber so there's a lot of cutting force needs to be used. I ended up employing Bob Benedetto's work around, he epoxied a wooden 'knob' on the end of the blade, turning it into a squirrel tail essentially. Having said all that, since I've modified them, they have become an essential tool in my arsenal.
Both of my ibex planes required a bunch of refining on the body to get them to cut well. I did it myself, and it didn't take too long, but it was disappointing.
I'm right behind you on this Ben! If you're paying premium prices you have every right to expect a premium product . There's little excuse for not popping the allen key into a stout poly bag but how the hell can you have so little pride in your product that there's Brasso residue on a high polished part? I hope that the wander with Pup helped undamage your calm
The underside of the Planes all seem to be marked in the same general place, I suspect that whatever part in their process involves involves clamping the tool in some sort of Jig is obviously damaging them!
I feel your pain.. Unfortunately most companies care more about $$$ over quality knowing full well consumers have accepted piss poor quality as the norm. People and companies want cheap and disposable versus buy once for a lifetime or multiple life times. There is no money in people not repeatedly buying the same crap over and over and over again.
I just got one of those bigger curved Ibex planes like you showed. I got it used. But I suspect it was never actually used. It has the exact same scratches on the bottom!
brother I get how you feel there. Just curious have you seen the Veritas mini hand planes? Don't know anything about building guitars but they are small and very nice and not terribly expensive per piece.
I bought a couple of the Ibex finger planes through Lee Valley Tools in Canada- mouth didn’t seem unduly large on mine, they arrived without any nicks and divots, and the one I’ve used most so far seems to have been doing everything I want it to do.
Unfortunately, the packaging problem happens many times. It is not always the responsibility of the manufacturer, but many times it is an error on the part of the distributor. It has happened to me to buy Japanese bridges and tuners, of very good quality; but I have received them all together in the same bag, scratching each other. The manufacturer probably sent a large box with dozens of pieces, unblistered but properly packaged; and the importer or distributor did not deliver them correctly. I don't want to assume this was the case that Ben mentions.
I have a couple of these that I bought a long time ago to make my own versions. The wedge locking into the little cam cast into the body is a great idea. You can remove the whole lever cap without completely removing the screw or having a pin across the blade bed. That said, the mouths are huge and not adjustable except for the largest model. I ended up making a bunch out of wood with various mouths and bought a couple Veritas mini arching planes with the wooden handle and their cast iron "Victor" plane with the squirrel tail. Bronze tools are pretty but I have a drawer of wooden planes that aren't a pretty but function beautifully.
It sounds like that arching plane is the one I bought for carving LP style recurved guitar tops. I moved house and I can only guess that it's in one of the boxes I've yet to unpack. I've still not used it.
@@Mikey__R Same. I know I have an old Leo Quan Badass bass bridge and Schaller tuners in a box in the garage. Bought a neck through bass in the 90s that was totaled (unrepairable headstock break). I bought it with the intention of building my first bass.
Honestly, I'd rather they use waxed-paper and a little masking tape to hold the allen keys to the packing, along with cardstock packing material. The fewer single-use plastics used all the better
You're absolutely right Ben, the way this sloppiness has infiltrated so many aspects of life is deplorable. Full marks for calling it out. We need far more craftsmen and people of honour generally: lead the way sir!
It's to bad you had that experience. I can appreciate the honesty. I would much rather hear that than" its not that bad. I can polish this turd and make it what it should be." I think the follow up video should be how that company is working in customer service.
I would send back thew hole box without further investigation if the first one came out like that. That kind of mony should buy you quality control! I bought a €20 chinese knockoff lasr summer, and with just a little work (realatively) i got myself a nice and usefull little plane , but i just can't afford ibex, and i'm kinda glad i can't now)
I think the knurled wheel is more a decision to have a contrast rather than just not matching. However, having them rattling around with an allen key damaging them is poor.
Ah, Ben… Sorry for your frustration. But you seem to have handled it well. I’m from Massachusetts, so if you Cuss It Out and Walk It Off… We’d say “Well f#
Oh man, that sucks!! I have a couple Ibex planes, they were pretty much flawless when I got them. The one tool I really like, and was surprisingly good for it's price point, is the WoodRiver spoon plane. The blade needed a fair amount of work, but the body of the tool is pretty damn nice.... way better condition than some of these Ibex ones you are unboxing. Oh, and the lock knobs on my Ibex planes do not match the body either. If I'm not mistaken, the body is bronze and the knob is brass.
Lie Neilson also makes reproductions of those squirrel planes, they're pretty nice but pretty spendy. The Groz squirrel tail planes are much better than their price point would suggest. I like the first one enough, I bought a couple of their other planes.
My full size new bench planes were of a lower but similar price, & needed a couple hours each of finish work to get them set up & functional. For specialty & esp brass body planes, that's just sad.
I have a small Ibex plane from many years back and it’s both beautiful and useful. Also have an old one of the purfling groove cutters you pulled out first and find it useful for more than its intended purpose. So sorry to see this. Seems like once again the accountants have taken over.
I'd be disappointed if I'd paid IBEX prices for those. I paid about $30 for a full set of 5 or 6 of the little tiny carving planes on Wish/Aliexpress and the quality wasn't that different. Less refined and not very polished, but for the price I was pretty happy with what I got for the price...
Ibex used to be Very high quality, I bough a small curved bottom sole plane about a year ago it came in all scratched up way worse than yours Ben, but also mine had a chip on the edge of the blade I was horrified. I contacted ibex sent them pics they sent me a new blade only. After useing the plane to tune acustic guitar braces it was dull after working on one guitar, I’m talking spruce & the blade won’t hold an edge. Junk🤬🤬🤮 Thanks Ben & Happy Christmas.🎸👨🏻🦯
Get the veritas mini block plane, I bought one and have been using it for braces, kerfing and a lot of stuff it's probably too small for. After almost a year I still haven't had to touch the blade, I'm amazed how good it is and how sharp it still is, it gets used a lot.
Thank you, I actually have the mini block plane & the larger one from Veritas, When I bought them I did not realize how nice they really were. I have had them for a couple years. Cheers
Seems to be a thing with just chucking an Allen Key in with another item that can get damaged as a result. Harley Benton do the same thing when they send out guitars!
Who actually manufactures Ibex planes and other tools. They were originally manufactured by Irving Sloane under the brand name Ibex, but there doesn’t seem to be any info on the internet on the actual company.
Pity for the damaged sole. They are too expensive for my wallet. But generally i agree with you, the "bigger" ones are best if made in squirrel or a block plane l style. A cheap option is a Kunz n.100 but it only has a flat sole. I hate to mention it again, but there is a Ken Parker video of reshaping a sole to a specific radius (and later adding a handle) of chinese brass plane so if anyone fancy doing some diy...
That's an interesting video, now if somebody could automate the shaping process, take castings from China and tune them up into precise but affordable little planes...
It's kind of ironic that you say you could not buy them because they were too expensive, and now that you are trying to supply your customers with an affordable version you learn the hard way that making a "perfect" product is really really expensive.
No genuinely depressing is when you order not one not two but THREE sets of aluminum billet for a project and Amazon ships them all three times in thin ass recycled paper bags. No box, no bubble wrap. just thin ass paper bags where the billets sharp corners could cut the paper just setting it on a shelf let a lone the rigors of shipping. 6 billets to get one before I just told em to stop and dropped my sub for the free shipping. Totally put me off that project because it is obvious the universe does not want it to be done.
I would say if your spending this kinda money on this kinda plane then you will have a good set of allen keys anyway... scrap the keys and use the money for better shipping... Dont let the bastards grind ya down Ben... Peace N Love Davey P...
The price on those is just absurd. I can't bring myself to buy them not because the money itself is an issue, but I would feel poorly about myself for being taken advantage of, should I spend that much money on something worth less than 10% of that value in reality.
Why do we need another hex / Allan key? Like most people ive got a few sets kicking around and a couple of precision sets. If an Allan key needs to be sent with the plane then get a single square of toilet roll wrap it around the key add a bit of tape and it won't scratch anything. The use of a good quality sticky tape to keep a box closed doesn't cost anything, some cheap tapes are better than the expensive ones. Having pride in what you make and sell makes a happy customer. If you do a half arsed job then just quit and get a different job. And can someone give Ben a big hug? He needs one. 🥺
We don’t need the Allen key, maybe include them for Ikea furniture so anyone can assemble it but if you’re buying a specialist plane there a 100% chance that you already own a dozen Allen keys
Hey Ben, I agree, this is heartbreaking. However, I would watch the pants off of a video series where you make a traditional wooden luthiers plane or five. P.s. Konrad Sauer used to make some small coffin smoothers, that fit the hand perfectly. I think they had a higher pitch, but even so the blade didn't dig into your palm. I tried some out at the Essex woodworking show over a decade ago now, I only just remembered them.
I would not spend any time fixing those, I'd send them back and demand a refund. Anyone charging premium prices should provide a premium product and should package it properly, and if they don't they should not be paid.
For shame, Ibex. Seems to have been no pride whatsoever put into the finishing process and no proper thinking effort implemented regarding the details of the shipping security itself either. This was but a wholesale mentality put into practice, if anything. A true pity a craftsman is forced to perform meticulous maintenance on the product purchased before using it.
Send them back dont fix them. They need to feel the consequences. If you fix them you've made their mistakes go away free of charge to them. Their reputation is protected and without this video you'd just look like you sold them on.
