Doom II's final boss is pretty broken yo. Music: Plurry by Bucket Baron's Province by James Paddock Cataclysmic Impact by James Paddock Patreon: / decino
@sheparddog117 you can’t shoot at the very top - you have to time it. What I do is shoot once when the platform lines up with the Icon’s “chin”, and then time a rocket when I run off of it. I know that’s probably not too helpful, but it’s hard to be specific. Use what I said as guidelines, and practice it.
By the way, Samuel Hayden stating that Icon of sin is getting stronger with every second on earth is a really nice touch, because in Doom 2 this boss fight was just pure race against time, the longer you stay in there, more monsters start and keep spawning, overwhelming you
The icon of sin also keeps spawning demons in doom eternal, starting with fodder and the longer you take fighting it, more heavy demons start spawning.
Fun fact, romero being the boss head wasn't planned from the start, a few others put his head in as a joke and weren't gonna tell him before release but he found out so he recorded and snuck in the voice line without telling anyone for a surprise to the other id dudes
9-25-23 So, some of the other developers of Doom tried to sneak his head into the Icon of Sin as a joke. However, John Romero would discover this fact, and would sneak a voice line into the game without telling anyone else. He surprised the people who tried to surprise him. Funny.
The Free Version is fine. If not that, then the album version. Unless you have boxed copies of all the other DOOM games, in which case I'm going to need your address, k thanks.
It's funny, it seems to show up in just about everything, but I'm pretty sure MAP30 is also the first time I heard it. It always distracts and annoys me when some other piece of media uses it because it's just far too recognizable.
As a child, I remember map 30 and the Icon of Sin being by far the most terrifying thing in Doom. It was gigantic, so unlike any other demon, there was nowhere to hide from it. The empty-ish hall design only exaggerated this. And the fact that it could kill you even with the god mode on completely freaked me out. I had it in my worst nightmares. The best video game boss ever.
Its not just the Icon of Sin. Forgot which doom game, but there was also the first part where you would instantly die (by telefragging yourself) if you didn't cross the "islands" through the right path. Also yeah, telefrags aren't blocked by iddqd.
@@jonbartosch1903 No. It's just a random joke in the video, referring to Romero's recent wad for Doom. "To win the game you must kill me John Romero" was the original reversed message.
@Agent 005 Sometimes a lot more complicated... But honestly? Sometimes not at all that much more complex. AI in games is still extremely primitive in more cases than you might imagine... Sometimes the AI in a modern game barely surpasses the complexity of pacman. On the other hand, sometimes it's so complicated you'd need to do a 3 year long study just to make sense of it all...
Everyone: Icon of Sin ACTUALLY says "To win the game you have to kill me John Romero"! Me: giggling because decino saying "reaction time" sounds like "erection time"
"The longer the Icon of Sin is on Earth, the stronger he will become" Doomguy: "Ok, so beat up John Romero's head, got it." "What?" Doomslayer: "You wouldn't get it."
@@tehberral They already got the classic skin model on Eternal. If they hire a programmer to give it gameplay mechanics, remaster the original levels in idTech 7, and make a Generations style of gameplay (Classic Doomguy cannot jump, can't dash while the Modern Doomslayer can) and voila!
I even got myself a concept for the final Icon of Sin fight now that I thought about it. Both the Doomguy and the Slayer join forces together and head to the portal to the destroyed buildings and he's right there (the full-body one in Eternal) roaring that famous John Romero line menacingly. Both characters take turns in fighting him, as he starts spawning demons using Hell Energy. The Slayer would weaken the body while Doomguy fires on the head, which would stagger him for a while, hence giving the player more time. In the end, after it's almost killed, both of them fire volleys of rockets to it's exposed brain, instantly blowing it up.
_Fun Fact that you probably knew._ The Icon’s brain spit sound is used in multiple movies and other games! _This has been, The fun fact that you probably already knew._
@@ChusenOne It's probably similar to the Doom door sound. While I always mentally associate it with Doom, you'd be surprised once you start listening for it, how many films in shows up in. The reason that door sound is so common is because it comes from a stock sound library that pretty much EVERYONE in Hollywood, and most of the games industry owns. It costs like a few hundred to buy the library, but the sounds it contains are royalty free. No doubt the sound used here is either from the same library, or a similar kind of sound library that was in widespread use...
it's worth noting that despite the fact that you can typically only damage the icon of sin with rockets, the romero head actor doesn't actually have any sort of damage immunity. instead, the head in d2m30 ( as well as many, _many_ map30s that follow ) is just too low to hit with most weapons. but, since splash damage only checks proximity on the xy axis, rockets are still able to damage it by hitting the wall behind it and catching it in their explosion. subsequently, ports like gzdoom which make splash damage use 3d collision detection have to "cheat" and ignore that added functionality _specifically for the romero head_ just to make sure that map30 doesn't _break_ also, the explosions from a dying romero hero _don't_ actually hurt ... under the conditions of a typical map30 setup, anyway. the S_BRAINEXPLODE states don't call A_Explode like the normal rocket death states, and while the spawned actors are 100% standard rockets forced into a non-standard state ( meaning, they're still projectiles - even though they're _visibly_ exploding, the rockets haven't actually _died_ ), actors only check to collide with other actors during P_XYMovement. which, as the name suggests, handles movement on the xy axis, not the z one. so, normally, they don't deal explosion damage, nor are they capable of hitting an actor to deal contact damage and _then_ explode normally but here's the thing: projectiles may not be able to collide with _actors_ while moving purely vertically, but they still collide with _planes_ and being under a floor or being above a ceiling counts as colliding with them so, if a romero head is positioned in such a way that its explosions will spawn below a floor or above a ceiling? the rockets will explode _using their normal death state,_ and thus will deal their normal splash damage to anything unfortunate enough to be in the blast radius. this also means that if an explosion spawns below a ceiling, but is carried into the ceiling by its upward momentum before it vanishes, it'll die and thus _reset the explosion animation,_ but this time as an actual damaging explosion - which, thanks to the aforementioned fact that splash damage doesn't bother checking vertical distances, is far more likely to kill something than you might first think
I think there's something profound about Doom. As I've watched these informative videos that get deep into the code I appreciate the game more. It was made so long ago, yet the software was ingenious at the time. It's optimized so well, that it has basically become possible to run doom on anything. I love these videos, but I gotta go buy the sigil box set.
I have so many fond memories of basically creating Survival maps before Survival gametypes were popular using this. Make a huge base of supplies & guns, then stick an Icon of Sin spawner in the distance.. boom, instant non-stop invasion of enemies (until the crappy netcode crashes lol)
The "monsters can telefrag each other on MAP30" thing explains some odd behavior on MAP30 of the megawad "Epic 2," that being a stream of enemies teleporting in and instantly dying when you hit two switches. It wasn't some weird exploding barrel trick, just the engine doing what it was intended to do, albeit in an unintended way.
I remember some rumors saying that the Icon of Sin could have been a way bigger and more powerful Cyberdemon in previous concepts. And just like all rumors... It was unfounded.
The high pitch ring around 0:41 was a little hard on the ears, I dunno if anything can be done about it (and I knows its part of the song) but just thought I'd mention it But still, amazing video as always, always love a little code deep dive
@@sunny_D I am a 31 yo industrial electrician , I'm used to noise, and high pitched whines and shit coming off of VFD's, and it annoyed the everliving SHIT out of me. Makes my brain go hurty :(
Decino is finally back, missed you my friend. The icon of sin is definitely an interesting enemy, during the fight, I was also scared of those demon cubes he shoots, because if I come into contact, than the telefrag will insta kill me, even with invincibility.
First played Doom 2 all the way through on I'm Too Young To Die with god mode way back when I was 8 years old. I made it to map 30 totally confused what to do, running all over the map, when suddenly I died with a big red screen. Scared the bejezus out of me. Now I know it was just a spawn cube telefragging me.
I have a very distant memory of this happening the first time I ever played the map, would be about the same age and confused me for years. Told myself iddqd must have a time limit
Sooo many new names in the patreon's list! And completely deserved! Always interesting analyses and fun map clears! I hope some day the list will be so large you'll have to get tired or change the perk))
Someone needs to spawn a -1 cube, and then we'll all place bets on what demon it spawns for 11.4 years - should give tons of time for people to get the pot nice and big. I vote it spawns an Arch Vile, for 100$ 🙃
To win the game you must first avoid all the god damn bugs. Now I know why all those clever DeHacked mods I made using the Icon would make the game crash for seemingly no reason. Still, when it worked it was pretty cool.
1:10 This is your moneyshot, decino You made a joke that only the fellow doomers will pick quickly. You are a awesome content creator and also a formidable purist player
Also I believe the explosions from a dying Icon can only be seen if the Icon itself is facing South on a map. Any other direction and you'll get nothing. See: the Icon in TNT Evilution's "Last Call" map faces North, so upon death you'll hear the scream but get nothing.
Hey decino, this video was featured in Cracked article titled "6 Gaming Secrets That Took Forever To Discover" - and they credited you with proper lowercase. :) _"The Icon of Sin is Doom 2's final boss. Its masterplan is literally giving birth to demons that'll hopefully prevent the main character from shooting it in its comically overexposed brains. (...) If you think Sin's strategy isn't flawed enough already, RU-vidr decino found out that, due to some very odd coding, one of the Sin's babies has a gestation period of nearly 11.6 years. So about 11.6 years way too late for anything other than a B-grade revenge-themed sequel."_
I still find it oddly funny when the upbeat 'goonies II' music plays in the Scythe level complete intermission after dying in Map10 and hearing that Romero Head scream. I remember thinking it was a glitch or a wrong exit trap until learning about forced pistol starts.
I genuinely love these analysis videos. They all have me learn something good and useful about doom. For instance, the armor video showed me that i shouldnt immediately pick up green armor under 100 percent. The rng one are also useful and interesting. Overall, all of your analysis videos helped me so much in playing some wads, and they are all interesting too.
Thank you so much for having visuals to explain this bosses code, I briefly understood what the cubespawner and cubetarget did but vaguely at best. You've mastered the ability of being informative while entertaining.
Yay a new doom analysis video, this is so awesome because I love to be able to understand how a game works, and especially if it’s doom so thank you so much for making these videos and taking time to analyse the game. You’re the best 👍
I love these videos so much, I normally only understand a little bit of this stuff, as I'm not versed in coding amd stuff...but THIS is insane, I can't even fathom the complexity of this
I just love how much effort, brain power and love is put into this vids and analysis. Decino is a very cool guy and a hidden pearl inside RU-vid algorithm
I lovw the fact that you and Dwars know each other. I'm especially drawn tp his channel because of Heretic and Hexen being the actual first FPS games I played before Doom. BTW, Excellent video as usual!
i kinda wish the icon of sin and the other bosses were more complicated the cyberdemon shoots rockets, the spider mastermind shoots bullets and the wall of sin shoots demons im so confused how the arch vile is soooooo much more annoying than any boss
Well I said earlier we were expecting a yellow background. So much code for just one map, no wonder it came on 5 discs. I will watch this another few times over the next week until it all makes sense 👍 great work
So this explains why I've been buying any random sigils I've come across for the last quarter of a century.... Oh well, money well spent *cackles in demon*.
Everyone waiting for new Valiant video decino: _how about no_ *(still a good video)* buy Sigil-oh wait...i mean *To win the game you must kill me John Romero*
Wow Kotaku have done a small piece on the 12 years to spawn a demon part of your video linking this video on it :) really getting noticed out there Decino :D good work.
