If God, Why Evil | Sean McDowell 

Exactly, i think you understand it very well.

you're mistaken on a number of points. I'll try to address some, since it sounds like you would like a more intellectual/logical/theological look at the problem of evil -you say god was the only thing that existed prior to the universe. Not quite true. Biblically, God existed before all things yes, but sometime before then, we have hints that angels existed prior. And at some point in time, the second in command (or so) angel Lucifer, decided to rebel and convinced 1/3 of the other angels to join him in it, they became fallen angels/demons and Lucifer became Satan(the devil). So God and the angels are not the only force in play (the force for good), there's also the devil and demons trying to influence mankind (force for evil) -you say god created humans exactly as he wants them to be, and that "he created humans knowing perfectly well that okay, the end result of this is gonna be they create a bunch of evil, in the Christian world view objective evil and he signed off on that and said yeah that's exactly what I want," no, that's not quite accurate either. In the beginning, God created mankind and they were perfect, yes, but then mankind sinned/rebelled against God, and that's when evil and corruption entered the world. Human beings were not created to do evil, but we were created with free will. Mankind used/abused free will to bring evil into the world, that was not God's plan/intent/ideal for people. but, you say God knew mankind would do evil. It does appear God knows, at least to some extent, the future. Whether God knows full details of the future, I'd say that point is suspect. In the account of Noah and the flood, it says God saw that the heart/ intent/ thoughts of man were evil all the time, and He regretted making them. Why/how could that be possible, if He truly already knew everything that mankind would do? This implies God did not think it would get that bad. There's also scripture that talks about some people sacrificing their kids to an idol (I believe that was Molech), and God says to the effect "it never even entered My mind that they would do that". Jeremiah 7:31. How can this be possible, if God knows "everything" including ALL details of the future? One possibility is, people are mistaken, and God didn't actually know exactly every detail of what would happen when He created mankind. Another possibility is, God knows everything "that can be known", and all details of the future might not be part of that. I think a more accurate statement is "God is the smartest being in existence", and can possibly figure out all/many potential possibilities people will take, BUT it is not set in stone, until a person actually makes the choice/decision. Your assumption is that God is evil because He essentially either controls everything (and hence free will does not exist), or, that He knows everything that will happen (which I called into question above, that assumption might not actually be true), and yet chooses not to do anything about it. you say when humans do evil, that God is saying "this is exactly what I want". That is a false statement. You assume God always gets what He wants. That is also false. If they were true, why would the Bible say stuff like: deut 30:19 I call heaven and earth to witness against you today, that I have placed before you life and death, the blessing and the curse. So choose life in order that you may live, you and your descendants, Ezek 18:32 For I take no pleasure in the death of anyone who dies,” declares the Lord GOD. “Therefore, repent and live!” matt 23:37 How often I wanted to gather your children together as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were unwilling! why would God even give the Bible and commands to people in the first place, telling people stuff like do not steal, do not murder, do not lie, if they had no choice/decision in what they would choose? It makes no sense. How can a fair judgment day at the end of it all, exist if people didn't have a choice? It couldn't. "God made the world complete, with the evil in it", no, the world started off as good and perfect. Mankind brought the evil in, and the devil also brought in evil when he rebelled earlier and you say something like "if there's a world with even the tiniest shred of evil in it ... if there's one drop of evil god wanted it there, God put it there. God had every opportunity to make the world such that it was not there, but it's there." God created the potential for evil, by creating free will creatures. That does not mean God planned out the evil or evil actions that would happen. God says "love your neighbor as yourself", but if Tommy uses free will to punch his brother instead, is that God's fault or Tommy's? God wanted and told Tommy to do good, but if Tommy does evil, that is Tommy's fault. You assume the best world is one without evil, and yes that would be ideal, but as Sean mentions, you can't have good and free will creatures, without also the possibility of evil. If there was no possibility for evil, there would be no true free will.

hm, my original msg might not have posted? I'll try again: you're mistaken on a number of points. I'll try to address some, since it sounds like you would like a more intellectual/logical/theological look at the problem of evil -you say god was the only thing that existed prior to the universe. Not quite true. Biblically, God existed before all things yes, but sometime before then, we have hints that angels existed prior. And at some point in time, the second in command (or so) angel Lucifer, decided to rebel and convinced 1/3 of the other angels to join him in it, they became fallen angels/demons and Lucifer became Satan(the devil). So God and the angels are not the only force in play (the force for good), there's also the devil and demons trying to influence mankind (force for evil) -you say god created humans exactly as he wants them to be, and that "he created humans knowing perfectly well that okay, the end result of this is gonna be they create a bunch of evil, in the Christian world view objective evil and he signed off on that and said yeah that's exactly what I want," no, that's not quite accurate either. In the beginning, God created mankind and they were perfect, yes, but then mankind sinned/rebelled against God, and that's when evil and corruption entered the world. Human beings were not created to do evil, but we were created with free will. Mankind used/abused free will to bring evil into the world, that was not God's plan/intent/ideal for people. but, you say God knew mankind would do evil. It does appear God knows, at least to some extent, the future. Whether God knows full details of the future, I'd say that point is suspect. In the account of Noah and the flood, it says God saw that the heart/ intent/ thoughts of man were evil all the time, and He regretted making them. Why/how could that be possible, if He truly already knew everything that mankind would do? This implies God did not think it would get that bad. There's also scripture that talks about some people sacrificing their kids to an idol (I believe that was Molech), and God says to the effect "it never even entered My mind that they would do that". Jeremiah 7:31. How can this be possible, if God knows "everything" including ALL details of the future? One possibility is, people are mistaken, and God didn't actually know exactly every detail of what would happen when He created mankind. Another possibility is, God knows everything "that can be known", and all details of the future might not be part of that. I think a more accurate statement is "God is the smartest being in existence", and can possibly figure out all/many potential possibilities people will take, BUT it is not set in stone, until a person actually makes the choice/decision. Your assumption is that God is evil because He essentially either controls everything (and hence free will does not exist), or, that He knows everything that will happen (which I called into question above, that assumption might not actually be true), and yet chooses not to do anything about it. you say when humans do evil, that God is saying "this is exactly what I want". That is a false statement. You assume God always gets what He wants. That is also false. If they were true, why would the Bible say stuff like: deut 30:19 I call heaven and earth to witness against you today, that I have placed before you life and death, the blessing and the curse. So choose life in order that you may live, you and your descendants, Ezek 18:32 For I take no pleasure in the death of anyone who dies,” declares the Lord GOD. “Therefore, repent and live!” matt 23:37 How often I wanted to gather your children together as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were unwilling! why would God even give the Bible and commands to people in the first place, telling people stuff like do not steal, do not murder, do not lie, if they had no choice/decision in what they would choose? It makes no sense. How can a fair judgment day at the end of it all, exist if people didn't have a choice? It couldn't. "God made the world complete, with the evil in it", no, the world started off as good and perfect. Mankind brought the evil in, and the devil also brought in evil when he rebelled earlier and you say something like "if there's a world with even the tiniest shred of evil in it ... if there's one drop of evil god wanted it there, God put it there. God had every opportunity to make the world such that it was not there, but it's there." God created the potential for evil, by creating free will creatures. That does not mean God planned out the evil or evil actions that would happen. God says "love your neighbor as yourself", but if Tommy uses free will to punch his brother instead, is that God's fault or Tommy's? God wanted and told Tommy to do good, but if Tommy does evil, that is Tommy's fault. You assume the best world is one without evil, and yes that would be ideal, but as Sean mentions, you can't have good and free will creatures, without also the possibility of evil. If there was no possibility for evil, there would be no true free will.

@@timothyn4699 Please read your Bible if you don’t believe God doesn’t accept child sacrifice. In Judges chapter 10 you’ll find a warrior named Jephthah asks God to help win a Battles. Jephthah asks God for help to win battles against the Ammonites. Jephthah makes a promises to God if he wins the battles he will make a burnt offering(sacrifice) to the 1st thing that comes out of his home upon his return. After Jephthah successfully wins these battles he returns home and the 1st thing that came out of his home was his only child( a daughter). Jephthah allows his daughter a few months to be trove then he sacrifices his daughter as a burnt offering. That’s a child sacrifice and God could have stopped it like he did with Abrahams son but God didn’t stop it.

@@timothyn4699 This sounds like a very different god than the Christian god. Christians claim that God is all powerful and that would mean he is all knowing. So yeah, if you say God is not all powerful and he had no clue that man would create evil then what I said would not apply to the god you believe in. Christians also that the god they believe in created everything but if angels existed prior to God existing then you believe in a different god than the Christian god. Anyways all gods are the product of human imagination and in the world of imagination everything is possible unlike the real world.

You're just too bright about this topic but to those who are in pain they can relate to it. There's so many verses cited here and you're still entitled for more. So sad for you

part of the beginning's point is that not everyone is looking for / needs an intellectual reason for the problem of evil, sometimes, what they're really asking is an emotional question (which should prob be addressed first) your message is a bit confusing. Are you trying to say you belief the doctrine of total depravity is true, and is what should have been taught/promoted?