The Washington Naval Treaty was a bitch. It would be interesting to see how many major ships were scrapped, changed, never finished, etc. (how do you make a ship 26 feet longer?) My take is that the treaty was a mistake for America and England. They had the money to build whatever they wanted and Japan and Germany could not keep up. And then you get both of them cheating. I'd say that both Japan and Germany got to build what they could afford and we were left playing catch up.
Cool high quality video, but I never understood your disdain for this class in previous mentions. Use what you got, they obviously made speed a priority to keep up with the carriers during the refits vice burdening them down with extra armor, and in 1941-1942, they were still extremely useful assets to act as fast escorts or to put down cruisers and below. Despite them all being annihilated, they proved their worth.
What would you think would happen if the escorting ships of the Pearl Harbor (The battleships and cruisers) striked as well? And sending another wave at the Harbor?
Vickers gun salesman: "If you act right now we can upgrade your ship with NOT 12" guns, NOT 13" guns, BUT 14" guns absolutely free! All you have to do is pay for shipping and handling'
At that range the 16in sporting US ships were within range of Type 93 torpedoes, they were lucky the Japanese did not score any hits with them (see the Battle of Tassafaronga for reference of what might have happened). At greater ranges the Japanese would have had no means to reply.
@@VersusARCH Washington got radar that have both range and direction. Japanese still uses Eyeballs MK 1 (human spotters) for ranging. And it was a night battle. Advantage goes to Washington.
@@1968gadgetyo The fact that Washington did not fire earlier cost the US three destroyers sunk and one battleship as well as one destroyer heavily damaged.
This is due to the ship initially being designed for 5x2 12" guns, with the 4th turret to be located between the two rear turrets if ended up with. When they swapped the design to 14" guns during construction, they weren't able to change the layout horribly much, and basically dropped a turret location. This is why there is space enough for another turret between the X and Y turrets on the ships. For something similar to the layout it would have had with the 12" armament, have a gander at the Amagi class.
More like: The British sales slaps the Kongou: "You can fit so many 14-inch guns in this baby!" Kongou slaps the salesman: "Yours is hardly fourteen inches ne!"
Not fast enough to outrun the torpedoes from US. Sealion ,which sank her... along with an escorting destroyer who happened to run into one of the tin fish !
That dark. brooding image of Haruna sunk and settled in shallow water is fascinating. If I were a kid there, I'd be desperate to get out to it and explore.
Lord, that is a horrifying thought to me. I’ve always had an irrational fear of being in the water next to a large ship, a partially sunk one would set off so many heebie-jeebies for me.
Just got the coffee... 2:20 "Persuaded the Japanese to select the larger weapon" Somehow I have the impression that the IJN officials were quite dissapointed that they only have the 14" guns... :)
@@thanakonpraepanich4284 I don't know. What I know, is that the Japanese army (pre or post WWii?) issued bayonets to the heavy machine guns, to make a point, that it is an assault weapon.
@Ron Lewenberg i think nicer than Hood and Alaska but Roma ... and incredible ship ! I think 1st Yamato, 2nd Roma, 3rd Ise aircraft carrier battleship, 4th Kongo, 5 Dunkerque, 6 Bismarck, 7 Hood, 8 Warspite, 9 North Carolina, 10 schleswig holstein.
@Enslaved singaporean 2 If the Kongo's count as battleships, then the Alaska's should too. The Alaskas are about the same size as the Kongo's, have slightly better armor but worse torpedo protection, and their more modern 12" guns had better penetration and a higher rate of fire than the Kongo's 14"s... An Alaska would also stand a pretty good chance of winning a duel with a Sharnhorst class. The Alaska is slightly faster and has an immune zone against the Sharnhorst's guns from 18 km out to maximum range, while the Sharnhorst has no immune zone against the Alaska's 12" guns. The bad reputation of "battle" cruisers is pretty much the reason the CB hull designation stands for Cruiser, "big" (large), instead of Cruiser, Battle. The fact that they were intended as carrier escorts doesn't really change much, since in a sense carriers fufill functionally the same role as battlecruisers. (scouting, commerce raiding, and being able to outrun or outrange enemy ships.) The aircraft trumps any gun armed ship for range, but they can't operate at night, and an Alaska could match or overmatch anything fast enough to actually catch a carrier taskforce at night while being cheaper than an Iowa.
Vickers: "We will sell you the ability to erase the British Empire in East Asia" Japan: "We'll do it with aerial torpedos regardless, but a thank you is in order"
Blue Boats When the US had not imposed an oil embargo on Japan for the war in Manchuria and China I don’t think they would have swung south into Malaysia and Indonesia. They did that to get their hands on the oilfields of Indonesia
Except that they really didn’t do all that much either. Yes they sortied a lot more often, but most of their sorties didn’t end in something noteworthy. Their speed often gets brought up because of their ability to keep up with carriers or go into the Slot, but big-gun vessels are bad carrier escorts anyways (the big guns are pointless when you aren’t ever going to be in range of the enemy, and AA can be put on smaller, cheaper warships). Two of the three times they went into the Slot they lost, and they don’t even have the excuse of losing to enemy airpower. In terms of achievements they’re quite awful. The reality of WWII is that ALL big-gun vessels were obsolete and superfluous. I have no idea why Yamato is singled out for this far more general problem. Edit; Don't use the Battle off Samar to argue the Kongos achieved more than other Japanese capital ships, as most of Kongo's supposed achievements there have been found to be wrongly credited to her, being feats by the cruisers or even Yamato.
The Rake It was only at first that they held them back for the decisive battle; after Midway, the Japanese held them back because they (and really, everyone else) couldn’t use their battleships cost-effectively anyways, and unlike the Americans (who could, and did, throw away money on pointless battleships and STILL have enough to build a ton of warships that actually mattered), they couldn’t afford to use them in inefficient ways either.
@@therake8897 Not even that, Second Guadalcanal is really the only battle they could have proved their worth in. Yeah battleships in general ended up doing little in both world wars, though in WWI they were at least necessary for the occasions they came out and fought, while in WWII you can't even say that in most cases.
@@therake8897 That was only before Midway (as I stated in an earlier comment)-afterwards they gave on on a decisive battle and didn't bother with the battlefleet due to them being pointless.
No one was inspired by Battle of the Midway (Chalton Heston version)? Try Azur Lane. The memes are more historical accurate. Like Enterprise got repair bonus with Vestal in the fleet.
Mine would be models I built in the 70s Iowa and a modern carrier, as well as Midway (1976), In Harms Way (1965) and the many submarine movies of the time. Amazing always to tour an old sub and see the machine shop etc... they packed into it.
You have so many videos of ships in drydock. Ever consider a series of videos on the history of drydocks and their value in wars? Can't save the ship if it can't be repaired.
@@bkjeong4302 . I don't think there was any assurance it would not be used in the Atlantic, however wrecking the dock certainly made sure. You are right in that the value of dry docks is not given the attention that perhaps they deserve.
I still find it somewhat surprising that the Royal Navy didn't look for a way to keep HMS Tiger. Especially since she was retired right when the freak-out of the threat of the Deutschland-class as commerce raiders was happening. Battlecruisers were the perfect counter to fast commerce-raiding cruisers, yet Britain was willing to dispose of one of their only 4 remaining battlecruisers. I can't seen any real chance of the Royal Navy using Tiger as a training ship with the specific plan to remilitarize her in wartime the way Japan did with Hiei. Britain was the only nation that was completely scrupulous about complying with the naval treaties, whereas everybody else looked for loopholes to exploit or in the cases of Italy and Japan just outright cheated. For example, the reason the KGV class had 10 rather than the originally planned 12 guns is that with the planned 3 quad turrets they would exceed the 35,000 ton limit by a mere 500 tons. So the only way Tiger would've been saved from the London Treaty would've been to sacrifice HMS Revenge instead. Given Tiger's greater flexibility and Revenge's lack of potential for further upgrades, I think that would've been a good trade.
@@RedXlV Drach covered this exact scenario in his five minute guide on HMS Tiger showing that the RN made the correct choice in saving the Revenge class ships.
You would be surprised by how many of us can be tame and discuss the actual history of the ship without screeching an anime girl based on said ship's lines.
I know the Kongos weren’t the best Battleships/Battlecruisers in history but they are some of my favorite ships. They have undeniably good lines, fast and relatively well armed they hold a special place in my heart
It depends on what your definition of good or bad. Due to the dominance of airpower, most engagements in the Pacific War involved formations of cruisers and destroyers sprinting into a contested sea zone to avoid air attack and fighting under the cover of darkness. The Kongo class was fast enough to go in with these formations and was easily the most active Japanese fast BB. In that sense, it was an oddly appropriate design for its time. The question is whether Kongo's unique capabilities enabled the IJN to do something good or if it just enabled them to do something really dumb. In hindsight, it was the second. Contesting Guadalcanal was a bad idea. At the time, IJN had an incredible superiority in night battles, but this advantage was negated by the Americans just needing to cripple a ship enough that their airplanes could use it for target practice when the sun came up again.
Whatever the resulting end for these ships the IJN got tremendous value from them. Building bigger and fewer battleships proved a mistake compared with large numbers of smaller vessels. Carriers today are making the same mistake, prime targets in a peer conflict.
By far one of the most aesthetically pleasing class of warships of the world wars, and one that I most wish had somehow been preserved (along with Nagato, of course).
You have never specifically said why you seem to dislike the Vickers 14" gun. From what I've seen the only reason to favor the 13.5 over the 14 was because they (the RN) had a stock of 13.5" shells dating back to Queen Victoria sitting around. Hardly (in my opinion) a reason to choose a weapon.
I don't dislike it, it's just hilarious at how pushy they were trying to sell it literally anyone with even a tangential interest in naval artillery. :D
@@Drachinifel Ok, I had considered that as a possibility from the way you said it. I was also mindful that later the RN went to a 14" gun. Another consideration was that the biggest bottleneck in warship production was the big guns. I thought that if the RN had gone to a 14" instead of a 13.5" that they could have benefited from Vickers already existent capacity.
Prior to the Washington Naval Treaty, Japanese battle line tactics revolved around having two squadrons with one made up of fast ships (armored cruisers or battlecruisers). The fast squadron would work with the main squadron using what were called "L" tactics. They would approach the enemy battle line with the fast squadron trailing and no matter which way the enemy battle fleet turned the two squadrons would separate on headings about 90 degrees apart to sandwich the enemy between them so the enemy was taking fire from two directions. The WNT ended the plans for the 8-8 or 8-8-8 fleet so the Japanese had to group their existing capital ships together as one unit. There was no need for battlecruisers in the new doctrine so the ships had their protection improved slightly as discussed in the video (which was excellent as always) and they were redesignated as fast battleships. So physically they weren't much better protected than when in their battlecruiser role but their mission and role had changed by the 30s. That is why they should be considered fast (and admittedly lightly armored) battleships in WW2.
Can you do a video on the Type 3 shell? Or if possible on the different types of aerial bombs and/or a series of video covering the different torpedoes used during both world wars by each country like France, britain and etc? A last series of video you could do would be the evolution of food preservation in the royal navy and other navy's in the world. Thanks to do those video on naval ammunations and food preservation that is also a large aspect of naval warfare that aren't often covered in video's. Thanks to take note of that :)
If I remember the accounts of Hiei at Guadalcanal correctly, USS Laffey's gunfire on her bridge wounded the Japanese admiral in command of the raid force and killed his second in command. Laffey's action, far as I can see, was the cause of the Japanese turning back that night.
American cruisers, when gun shops go to war French, Italian & Soviet destroyers, when Formula 1 cars go to war German battleships, when grandpa goes to war with new toys
Very useful ships! Their high speed was of great value, same as with Hood, Renown, and Repulse. They made ideal escorts for the Japanese carriers, and thus were kept quite busy in the early part of the war.
@@bakaweiner6956 There is a DDoS attack that requires a VPN to play, even if you're using the likes of KC3 Kai. (I'm using SoftEther VPN Gate as that VPN.) This is not permanent, according to devs. Gotland is currently a limited-time drop, and will get her second retrofit soon.
@@bakaweiner6956 Not at the moment. In the previous event, we had the following new ships: - HNLMS De Ruyter - USS Houston - HMAS Perth - Shinshuu Maru (LHA) - Akishimo - Hirato - USS Atlanta (with a certain Hard only equipment, AACI is more powerful than Maya's, but Maya is more versatile) We also had a mini-event involving Hishimochis. The reward was remodel materials. Save for a small part, I pretty much skipped the event. Also, Okinami had her second retrofit.
I'm guessing that they were classified as "fast battleships" after reconstruction more as a matter of the IJN retiring the "battlecruiser" designation than to suggest they were actually considered the equal of a modern battleship.
Really enjoy your videos. Though the ending's seem a bit 'cold'. I, personally, would like to hear you give a brief summation of what you thought of the classes/ships you review at the end of every video - say, 60 seconds long or so.
In fact, from what I've read, the ship was not lost due to Washington's fire itself, but instead accidentally scuttled following efforts to counterflood the damage caused by Washington.
Five minutes guide to the CAM ships of the Merchant Marine! Strapping a Hurricane to your front deck to intercept FW200s with no way of landing the plane is about the most hardcore thing one could do in WW2.
@@spikespa5208 Nope, the hurricat pilots were passionate and to be frank, insane. Who wants to launch off a ship to engage in a dogfight where even if you win you're going to have to ditch in the ocean. If they launched, they swam and hoped that someone would pick them up... Now imagine the ship you launched from sinking. Balls. Of. Steel.
The design and construction of the Kongo class deserves a greater discussion (I think you had pointed out that you are going to do this). It wasnt the case of Armstrong's salesmen selling 14 inch guns there was a complex interaction with the Japanese team who had technincal knowladge and experience and Armstorngs naval artitects with the Royal Navy keeping a close eye on developments. This was different than sales to other countries that seemed simply to go along with the salesmen (thinking of the South American battleships) or accept whatever the Royal Navy told them (the RAN and HMAS Australia - they could have got a better design).
The growth of the pagoda structures reflect the Japanese faith in their optical rangefinders. As their weight and size grew, they needed ever taller and stronger structures to support and make best use of them. This also reflected how little faith the IJN had in radar, since their doctrine was their rangefinders would be more than adequate day or night. It wasn't until late 1942 that the Japanese realized how much USN surface search and radar fire control was mauling their ships. That set off a furious pace of development for their own radars. UNfortunately, it did the same for the army, with many identical types being developed in tandem with no coordination between the two services. If some miracle would have occured and the talented men for all services worked together, the IJN may have had effective radars by late 1944, but even that would have been too late. There are very few cases in the history of warfare where the types of circular gunfights engaged in by the Japanese armed services so badly impacted their chance of survival, let alone victory.
It's not just optics that require a high vantage point; radar also does better the higher it is placed (though the Japanese didn't make use of it for most vessels)
@@bkjeong4302 True, although these pagoda masts were built to increase the height of radio antennas as well as optics. The low powered, regenerative circuit radios of the 20's required as much height as possible if they were going to get any kind of useable range, especially in the Pacific. The early USN radars were primarily mounted on carriers and battleships for the same reasons. It was the development of superhet multiple stage receivers and higher powered transmitters that made absolute antenna height less important during the late 30's onward.
There are some historical claims that Hiei could be saved from sinking if her Captain didn't ignored order to beach her in the shallow waters of a nearby combat zone island... On the other hand... I'm not sure if such beaching would make any overall difference for Hiei's ultimate fate due graduately increased American air superiority over Guadalcanal which would no doubt result in constant air raids against her both from Henderson Field and US Navy carriers operating in the area.
A Japanese captain ignoring a direct order in the very brutal IJN? That's pretty much suicidal. Did he go down with his ship or kill himself? If she had been beached and made into a stationary gun position the Americans would have just bombed her into oblivion.
@@bakaweiner6956 hey, don't try to play that the Japanese were victims. Japan started a war with the US and the US was sure as shit going to finish it.
Asheer: Hiei was badly damaged, and despite efforts to tow her with her rudder jammed, she was further damaged by bombs and torpedoes. Admiral Abe (who had been wounded) ordered the ship to be abandoned, destroyers took off the survivors and then torpedoed the ship. Since admiral Abe was on board, the captain cannot be blamed for anything as he was following orders. It was due to the jammed rudder that Hiei was doomed. It has also been found, that like other Japanese ships that were sunk, Hiei's forrward magazine blew up as she went under indicating either too sensitive shell fuses, shells with fuses installed in storage, or a fire was raging around the magazine.
Dang. Ship was hit by 18.1-inch shells from Yamato, first shell that hit her probably sealed her fate. I believe Kongo claimed a hit on Gambier Bay, but the hit was also claimed by Yamato, who had the shorter range and the correct firing angle.
Somehow, I envision this ship chomping down on one of her sister ships with a maw running the entire length of the ship in a sea of blazing, sinking ships while ominous, yet badass organ music blares in the background. Weird.
Interesting, I've got the same mental image. XD Of course, this is also interspersed with images of a girl with really quite elaborate hair, screaming "Burningu Love!" at the top of her lungs. There really is a heck of a lot of wild and crazy stuff floating around in my skull.
I guess Azur Lane designer had this image in mind when they started working on Friedrich de Grobe. Put a 9th symphony in as a background music and you are set.
