I'm not a Plumber (I'm Joe Public) and I've had this issue of non function with two isolation valves that's been installed years ago now. Now I know why they're not working. I learnt something today. Thanks. Liked and subscribed.
Excellent advice Al. I do prefer the full bore lever valve. But it depends on amount of space one has to work with and application. Those screwdriver operated valves also have an arrow on them indicating direction of flow. You can almost guarantee problems if someone put it in the wrong way around if you try to turn it off
the screw head valves are easy - if the slot is in line with the pipe the valve is open - if it is at right angles to the pipe it is closed. easier than looking for an arrow in what is usually a limited space.
@@bertiebongo The arrow tells you which way to plumb it in in the first place when you are fitting it. Not which way to turn it off when you need to stop the flow of water
I can absolutely confirm your advise. Last year I had a kitchen tap to replace. Turned off both hot and cold valves, and both leaked. Spent more time on THEM than the tap, one took 4 months to finally stop a capillary leak. So I still had to shut off the mains valve, and had to stop THAT leaking as well!
I had a similar job, had to change a tap in a factory canteen... it had a screwdriver-operated iso. valve... siezed SOLID ... and NO ONE knew where the water mains cut-off was... simple job turned into a nightmare... 🙄😖
@@peterfitzpatrick7032 Experience has taught me that "Simple" usually means "Straight Forward," and that Straight Forward" usually means 'Time Consuming. . . . . . ' Also that the worst job you could imagine ends up being not as bad as you expected! Why is it that the jobs you learn most from are frequently the WORST?
How true, Isolation valves work great as long as you turn them off and on at least 4 times a year. I do industrial maintenance and I know from experience they will freeze. I have used pipe wrench to turn off a valve and have replaced many because you can't turn them off or not completely. Good Advice
Thank you! These are HORRIBLE. To have plumber agree is so good to hear. These leak whenever you need to use it, calling a plumber back to replace it and cause more problems and cost than you needed. Do plumbers fit these knowing they'll be called back?? Seems it! If I get my pipes replaced, I'll buy the parts and tell plumper to fit them or tell them what I want fitted. Of course I'll pay more. There are better ones out there that in the big scheme of a plumber charge is little compared to these few quid crap.
Good advice and explains a lot. Shame that the previous owners of our property hadn’t seen this before they installed loads of them, all over the place! Advice we’ll received. Thanks.
Sound advice. A cheap slotted iso was fitted when I had an outside tap installed. Every winter had to turn it off to prevent freezing and the inevitable happened after a couple of uses, the screwdriver slot was beyond use and then it seized up and leaked. Since then I always buy and insist plumbers install Peggler full bore with either the longer handle or the shorter twist handle. Never have a problem with any of these -you get what you pay for.
had to turn off and on hundreds of these when replacing water heaters and showers etc, fitted them in my own home and never had a problem. i refuse to turn gate valves off though because you can guarantee they will snap and not turn back on.
@@dereton33I once turned one - just slightly - to isolate the water so I could fit a new sink and worktop. The core shot out like a bullet (pressure was over 5 bar) hit me in the chest and for the next 15 minutes, had the apprentice holding a towel over it until we could find the main valve, which was on a lower floor, hidden amongst dozens of others. Never trusted them from that day to this. And the screwfix 10 in a pack ones ALWAYS leak, unless you use loads of ptfe tape. Cheap rubbish that should be avoided - just not worth the hassle, simply to save a few quid.
Full bore valves don’t all have handles. Full bore just means greater water flow and doesn’t affect pressure. The seals inside are the same irrespective of the type of valve, although I would agree that cheap iso valves do tend to fail before more expensive brands would which I attribute to the quality of the metal and the seals themselves.
Perfect advice. If possible, stay away from these cheap valves!!! They always end up leaking from the rubber seal!!! They should be taken off the market!!
Good morning, nice informative video. I live in Kathu, Northern Cape, South Africa and we have a lot of lime in our water. This affects everything to do with plumbing, from the shower rose to the toilet. Those little isolation taps handle simply break off when you try and close them to work on the toilet as they are "frozen" by lime build up, whether you buy the cheap ones or the more expensive ones is immaterial, they all fail!
Thats a bit of fresh air, a good honest warning. I had mine replaced recently, because it just wouldn't allow ANY water through the pipe to the outside Tap. Alls well now.
Nice one, fully agree about using the full bore . Got one on my inlet , the existing one fitted by the builders was jammed open so added one above it .
I fitted two of those screw slot isolation valves the first time I did some DIY plumbing, I never used them again, both seized up and couldn't be turned when I wanted to shut them off, one was on a shower feed. It was also brass so a very soft screwdriver slot that was easily mangled, I replaced them with the full ball valve lever type you showed, no issues as yet. The handles don't really bother me, they are under the worktop or a sink so not normally visible any way. I did consider the small lever type but figured if they did get tight there wasn't enough leverage or grip on them for me to operate easily.
If the pipe is fully inserted in the live side then it can be forced against the internal seal around the ball when the coupling is tightened thus making the valve difficult to operate. I would suggest fully inserting the pipe then bring it back a mil or two before tightening the coupling. That way the pipe end isn't being forced up against the internal seal and the valve will work without any problem. Also, for those out there who aren't plumbers - please make sure NOT to put PTFE tape on the coupling threads (that serves no purpose other than making it difficult to tighten the coupling. The tape goes over the olive and the thread is left clear allowing the coupling nut to run up and easily tighten.
@@JohnSullivansChannel Never seen a pipe move whilst tightening, there is a lip inside the fitting anyway to stop it going in to far. Also most people say PTFE tape is not needed on compression fittings, I've never used it and to be honest I think it would just be pushed up the curve as you tighten the joint and bunch up between the mating flats possibly making it more likely to leak
Living in spain the use of isolation valves like these are common place fitted properly they pose no problem as long as there not the cheap chinese manufactured type
I replaced some taps on a basin in a relatives house that had the cheap ones and these hadn't been turned in years. Both of them started leaking... I could replace the cold side as that was easy to isolate from the main stop cock, but the hot water side I couldn't find the stop tap and didn't want to drain the hot water tank... in the end as a last resort I heated the valve up with my plumbers torch (hoping but never thinking it would melt a new surface on the seal) and it only flippin worked! Something to try if you're desperate like me I guess.
Worth noting, full bore lever valves are much easier to locate and use for many people, especially in a rental property, than asking a tenant to go find a suitable screwdriver in the even of a leak.
I used two 22mm full bore slotted type within the 3” stud work wall to isolate the hot and cold gravity feeds to the bathroom shower. The hot one seized within 6 months and the cold not long after. Replaced with the lever type and removed the levers so they would fit and just refit when needing to operate them.
Very sound advice. When I’ve fitted them things (customer has usually bought them) I spray wd40 on the screw or under the handle to help longevity. It’s normally me that would be called back years later to fit a new sink or ball valve etc and need to isolate. Seems to work.
Great advice - full bore Peglars always. Also always full bore flexi pipes with no valve and ideally hand tightening nut for the tap connector. Costs 2x the cheap stuff but last a lifetime.. If you are paying a plumber £50 per hour then a £10 valve v a £4 one is irrelevant.
I bought an old Victorian house in 2014, every pipe and radiator had an isolation valve fitted. I kept an eye on them and I did turn them every 6 months. Never had an issue.
yep guess so. I also fired up the boiler in middle of summer just to blow any cobwebs out and keep it free. A good old 25kw Greenstar combi. @@dereton33
Could I just add, that if you fit a "screw" type, please position it as to ensure the screw is easily accessible in what is usually a confined space. Trying to get a screwdriver to do its bit in a couple of inches clearance, is not good for the blood pressure.
All good advice, although the water companies didn't like it, I always used to fit a lever valve rather than a stopcock. They were much easier for an older person to operate, and stopcocks seize up after a few years anyway. Also, make sure you use copper olives and not brass ones with a couple of turns of ptfe tape or a smear of LSX around them.
Also the rubber can perish and be lost i changed presumably 70 year old stopcock as it wouldn't close off and found the rubber had gone. I like quarter turn. As part of good housekeeping people should turn the internal and external shut off to clean off deposits and prevent seizures. I quite like butterfly handle as they are less likely to be knocked , i used one on a farm trough for this reason and had it facing inward to protect against 🐑🐂
They can be ok if the flow rate and pressure is good. On central heating the bore through the valve can be very small. This will result in not enough flow rate to the radiators. Good advice given to fitt full bore valves.😊
i changed my taps just the other day - my isolation valves are adjusted with a flat head screw driver - they have been on for many years and had no problems at all. If you run the hot tap and the water isn't as hot as you would like then just close the isolation valve a little and the flow of water will be slightly reduced and the water will be hotter because it is spending longer over the heat source. no need to get a plumber out for that.
Top video. Cheap ones always dribble. I see their purpose is to set flows on taps, not for isolation. One tip is grease the screw head to stop it corroding/ shearing off 😊
Any type of isolation valve has rubber seals, including the full bore variety/lever handles. So the technology is pretty much the same. The difference is the full bore variety having a larger internal diameter, so are less likely to clog up/seize with scale and not function properly. Lever variety is of better quality, much easier to use. Isolation valves aren’t meant to be regularly turned on/off - they are meant for servicing an appliance like a basin tap, or a toilet which is how often on average? Once in ten years plus? They do the job usually, there are cheaper varieties that look identical and of course don’t perform as well. Most regular people don’t go round turning all their valves and what not in their homes to keep them smooth running, it is good practice of course. But the chances are any type of isolation valves with time will cause problems. I think it unfair to make out these slotted type isolation valves aren’t any good at all.
Not all isolation valves have rubber seals, there are a variety of materials used for seals depending on the intended usage o f the valve as there are a variety of metals used in the construction of the valve bodies. For example DZR fittings for potable water. Most problems occur because of inappropriate selection of materials.
Yes my thought entirely -that I still see instalations including those owned by local authorities without any isloation valves, making repairs difficult, and when it comes down to it an installation without these valves is a clear indication the installation is likely to have many other problems. As to screwdriver turn damage -a hollow ground screwdriver of the appropriate blade crosee section should be used, not anything from a scraper to a cuteraly knife. It is the same with other domestic property services -exactly how many people press the test button (5 x s test) on Residual Current Device on a monthly or quarterly basis? Probably none of you.
@@SteveWhite-d9f DZR fitting with all metal seals (mating surfaces) -especially multi-turn gate valves are just as prone to siezing, most often though not mentioned by detron33 in this video, is caused by hard water lime scale build up -preventing components returning to closed position, after sometime years in open position, that gate valves and even Stop Cocks leak from the gland (the part wwhere the handle /shaft is for you non plumbers) has nothing to do with construction or the metal they are made of, it is down to the gland seal (not metal) drying out, the only way a metal seal can be used is if the valve is designed to be fully open or closed -in effect forcing two metal -copper, brass, or bronze (DZR) into hard contact -and again this may also fail when the secondary position is facilitated, again down to a build of hard water scale. There is no mitigation against- due dilligence by house holders. And as to rubber seals -be they natural or synthetic -they are everywher in all plumbing today if they were as prone to failure as mr Detron33 contends -plumbers would by worked into an early grave, and householders and gov't would be in revolt.
These valves can start leaking from the flat slot when turning with a screwdriver. You then have to drain remove and replace which is hassel and seems to happen more on a Friday. A lever valve is more reliable and they rarely leak from the spindle.
Yes having a decent handle is much more user friendly but how often do they get turned off? Once in a blue moon? Fitted the basic ones 40 years ago and they still function when needed.
100% agree with that. The slotted screw type would be far better with a hex that a socket could be used on, but I think the slotted screw is a necessity due to how they are manufactured.
I always give the screw head on the isolation valves a small squirt with WD40 just to ensure it’s loose and working, before I get the screw driver on it. That helps me.
We use big bore versions of these valves on boats. On private boats they tend not to be turned off and the day the boat is sinking, you find the valve has seized up and can't be shut. The other problem with 1/4 turn valves is that when you turn them off, water remains in the ball and can freeze up during the winter, splitting the valve apart. Gate valves may take longer to close but they are more secure.
I find all isolation type taps, all types mentioned, can leak eventually, including stop cocks. I find that for toilets, where the plumbing tends to develop some issue in a few years, these ones are fine as you end up turning them for some reason relatively regularly. Best off only using these screw ones where likely to get turned when doing a job. For ones you may need to turn for other reasons, such as re-pressurising a boiler, then use tap handle ones.
I’ve had these valves fitted in my bathroom for years I give them a spray with WD- 40 now and again and open and close them every now and then working fine just like anything you must maintain them
Yep, went to isolate the supply to a cistern at my Mums house and the seal peed water out. Thankfully sealed again in the open position. Will replace eventually.
Ha this is what prompted my question about the fill loop replacement. Seems mine had fused itself shut and the handle has snapped as it can't take the force to open it. I'm going to get a fill loop with an inline stop though as I'm no plumber and while these work they are a Godsend able to just avoid larger hassles. I think I will be taking it off when not in use though - keeping it dry should, I hope lessen the likelihood of re-fusing.
I couldn't agree more about slotted isolation valves, especially the cheap tatty ones whose compression joints in my experience all too often won't seal without loads of ptfe tape being wrapped around the olive after compressing it on first. And those cheap ones with the little plastic handles can be too easily nudged back on while you're working on the pipework downstream of it so you and the surroundings get drenched. I prefer the ones made in Doncaster which have a handle which won't turn back on unless you really want it to.
if you as old as me you will remember the first ones that would mash up when you tried to turn them off with the screw driver . we have been plumbing since the 50s . grandad..dad.. them me ..
Went to change basin taps for my daughter, she had bought the taps a few days before,so I went thinking easy job won't take long,great I thought isolating valves,turned off 1st one started dripping from the turn off screw,second one would not turn at all,me and my big mouth,trip to screwfix 2 full bore and 2 new flexi pipes,they didn't look to clever either. Job done eventually.
@@dereton33 It will not wash off the contact area between the seal and the ball - it is the stiction between these that causes these valves to fail - worked for me for 30 odd years.
I agree with your dislike of isolator valves which have to be turned on/off with a screwdriver. In general when fitting taps when supplied by a combi I don't fit isolators as its easier just to turn off the main supply. You should also do a blog about gate valves on a non combi system. They will turn off but never turn back on so you are stuck with a top tank full of water!! I drain the tank instead./
Sage advice💜👍✌️😊 I suspect the ones I fitted seperately from the wretched flexi tails - although all decent quality - will be cream crackered some eight years later 😲💔🙄🤬 The lever type are much better. It's getting harder for the DIYer to buy quality products (or identify them) now though as it's a race to the bottom re competitiveness, vs quality vs VFM😕😕☹️🙄🙄💔🤬
Yeah I usually pay 4 times the price for a Pegler valve, it gives me peace of mind knowing it’s been made in the factory next door to the one that produces the 10 for £10 ones by an 8 year old instead of a 5 year old in darkest China somewhere.
If you are going to have an isolating valve it has to be the Pegler (In my youth it was Pegler & louden perhaps a different company) T bar full bore ball valve.
After working in at a trade supplier for some time, many plumbers appeared to dislike the screwdriver isolator. Some commented that when you use one, there is a chance it is because water is peeing out, when water is peeing out, you don't want to be farting around trying to find a screwdriver or suitable tool to turn these things off (aside from other issues mentioned in video or comments)!
Another great video. I find the valves stick and as you apply more force, the plastic levers deform and turn but the valve doesn’t move. Full bore with a METAL lever is better, less pressure drop. But rather than the long metal levers which may not fit in the available space, consider those with the smaller METAL butterfly levers.
Agreed. I use both the regular and T-handed Pegler ball valves and really like them. Whilst they are pricey, I think they are better than the alternatives.
Long as takes 10 bar it should be alright.. Mine seemed to piss out all over.. Untill you found that sweet spot.. Then it's as dry as a bone.. U got less than a mm to play with to close the valve.. I used one as a temp stop end cos the shops had f all in
I want to replace a hot water isolating valve to my bathroom. I have a combi boiler , can I just turn the water mains off and turn the boiler off ? PS thanks for sharing all your knowledge 🍻
