Important Tips on Making Developers like 510-Pyro and PC-TEA

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Please note, an important question was asked about this method that deserves mentioning here:
The questioner, J, asked if the PH would be changed because of the 25ml of propylene glycol I added with the phenidone dissolved in it. This made the amount of TEA in the developer only 75% of its original formulation. It seemed a lot and would change the PH and therefore the qualities of the developer.
Very good question. Here's my answer:
"I did the PH test this morning. The dilution for developing with PC-TEA is normally 1+50 so I chose that as my test dilution, 10ml to 500ml water. I took 500ml distilled water and added just 7.5ml TEA (simulating a 75% solution of TEA in PC-TEA as I made in the video) and stirred well. The measured PH, using an 8100 PH Meter, was 10.08. I then added 2.5ml more TEA making a total of 10ml TEA in the 500ml water and stirred well. This was now the same as a 100% TEA version of PC-TEA as formulated by Pat Gainer. The PH remained at 10.08. This shows me that the buffering PH of the TEA is the same at 75% as 100%. It was a good question you asked and deserved a thorough investigation to check if my thoughts were valid. This is also good info for the other RU-vid watchers so thank you for your curiosity!".
Therefore, do not worry that using 25ml of 1% solution of propylene glycol (PG) will change the developer. I didn't test any more dilutions, just the one I demonstrated. If you are nervous about adding this much PG then make a stronger solution if phenidone in PG such as 2%.
------
Recently I helped a couple of photographers with a problem with their negatives. They were under developed. We tried a few things but eventually worked out that the phenidone was weaker than it should have been. We also worked out that the heat, when making the developer, had cooked the phenidone. I used to do the same but am now suggesting this alternative. So here are some important tips on making developers like 510-Pyro and Pyrocat in glycol. There's easy mistakes to make that will give you a developer that's less than satisfactory. I'll make some PC-TEA (by Patrick Gainer) and on the way will show how you can improve your developers.
John
www.pictorialplanet.com

Опубликовано:

12 сен 2024

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Комментарии : 99

@brianrowland9993 16 дней назад

PS I purchased your book which I regard as one of the very best I have seen. A great read because it eloquently traces photographic history whilst highlighting the best developerss. I would encourage anyone interested in analogue photography to buy this book.

@brianrowland9993 16 дней назад

Great informative video - I watched this because my Pyro 510 attempt was a complete failure. Pretty sure I followed your directions on the associated video - BUT recall the temperatures you used in that video were much hotter! The failure may be due to excess heat that has killed one of the ingredients? All chemicals were purchased fresh so I’m completely miffed. In desperation I purchased commercial Pyro 510 - and it does indeed work very well. TIP: The 510 concentrate MUST be really well mixed into the water solution - it needs 2 minutes of constant stirring otherwise your neg will be thin.

@normusarms 2 года назад

That makes very good sense, its just like cooking, don't burn your food or your chemicals! Also good to see that you don 't stir too fast or shake the contents in a bottle!

@Rotogravure54 Год назад

Hello John! Thanks very much for the added advice about dissolving ascoribic acid into TEA. Extra heat made all the difference and my 3rd batch was successful. Am also enjoying your book. It has considerable value to me.

@PictorialPlanet Год назад

Good news and thank you for buying my book!

@randallstewart175 2 года назад

I started storing phenidone in glycol as show here about 25 years ago after reading a few articles by Pat Gainer. Prior thereto, I had suffered the pain of dissolving it directly in water when mixing a stock developer. My approach was to heat the glycol alone to a high temperature to drive off any water which may have been absorbed, then mixing in the developer agent when cooler. The first time went fine. The second time I accidentally heated the glycol to its boiling point, which you do not want to do - ever. The smell and mess re unforgettable. Phenidone mixed for storage this way lasts practically forever so long as I can tell from experience.

@PictorialPlanet 2 года назад

This is good advice, thank you, Randall 🙏

@Rotogravure54 Год назад

Defintely going to make myself some PC-TEA!

@PictorialPlanet Год назад

Nice!

@jameslane3846 2 года назад

Great that you're always sharing your knowledge, John I've just hired a chemist specialising in chemical regulation and he told me that I made 510 Pyro look more toxic in the safety data sheet than it actually is! And in fact, it should be classified as harmful (like how hydroquinone devs are) and not toxic. I'll be updating the sheet soon once I get his full report :)

@PictorialPlanet 2 года назад

That's good to know, James! The toxicity of pyro both pyrogallol and pyrocatechin has often been debated. Thanks for the update. By the way, just saw this hood video on Ilford's manufacturing plant: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-vIWpWyrgXjA.html

@jameslane3846 2 года назад

@@PictorialPlanet yeah! I'll be enlisting his help with the future developers to be released - I might not even need the harmful symbol for Ichor for example though I'll put it in anyway because there's bound to be someone to drink it 🤣 Ah yes! Ribsy was very secretive about that, we meet up occasionally 😅 Michelle did invite me for a tour out of the blue last year but haven't followed it up yet

@PictorialPlanet 2 года назад

Hopefully you'll get some good news about Ichor soon. Maybe I could do a video on it? Drop me an email if you ever want to do that.

@jameslane3846 2 года назад

@@PictorialPlanet would love that, I'm holding it off for the moment as I'm getting overwhelmed by the US and EU for wholesale orders for 510 Pyro and a lot of Asian B2C!

@jameslane3846 2 года назад

@@PictorialPlanet hey John, sent you a reply email on our thread about MSDS! Also forgot to mention to expect an email from Silvergrain Classics, they want to interview you!

@189643478 2 года назад

Just small remark but sodium ascorbate is definitely an organic compound. It is an organic salt. But you're definitely right that solubility in organic solvents compared with water will generally be lower for salts.

@PictorialPlanet 2 года назад

Thanks for that information Immortalist. It sure doesn't want to dissolve in TEA or PG.

@theoldfilmbloke 2 года назад

GREAT !!! Just where I was GOING WRONG I think. TOO HOT ! I shall try PC-TEA next . Keep Snapping and Mixing John !

@PictorialPlanet 2 года назад

Thanks Peter!

@ignaciohenche97 2 года назад

Hello John: great video with very useful tips as you use to give to all of us. It is difficult to find the right words to thank you enough. Short questions: is there any method to test if the phenidone remains active? What about the ascorbic acid? If there is some kind of test you may address the topic in further videos or Q&A…. other developing agents too?

@PictorialPlanet 2 года назад

This is a great idea for a future topic. Thank you Ignacio!

@nuolaobi Год назад

Thanks! I was heating them up too much, i guess that's why some types of films gave me very poor results. I will try your way. 👍🏻

@PictorialPlanet Год назад

You're welcome, Chongnuo

@barrykirsten7517 2 года назад

Another interesting video John. One comment I'd make about making percentage solutions in general is to start with a little less than the required amount of solvent, to allow for the increase in volume due to the solute, then add solvent to make up the final volume to, in this case 100 mL. I admit that in a 1% solution the change in volume is negligible, but with 5 or 10% solutions the added volume of the dry powder would likely be significant and the final solution concentration would be less than expected. Incidentally, I make up my phenidone as a 5% solution in isopropyl alcohol, which also seems a good preservative

@PictorialPlanet 2 года назад

Thanks Barry and you are of course quite right. Thanks also for sharing your dilution and solvent. One advantage in isopropyl alcohol is not having to warm it up which is good but I don't think it keeps as long. How long have you kept phenidone preserved this way successfully?

@barrykirsten7517 2 года назад

@@PictorialPlanet Three months to date with no discolouration and using a squirt of butane gas to keep oxygen at bay. I've read of others getting 12 months or more with isopropyl alc.

@PictorialPlanet 2 года назад

Good to know, Barry. Thank you.

@peteb5461 2 года назад

Great video, will be giving PC-tea a try alongside the 510 pyro i recently purchased. Have also just bought your 5th edition book, something to dig into over the weekend ;)

@PictorialPlanet 2 года назад

Thanks Pete and a huge thanks for buying my book! You'll be able to have some fun comparing the two developers.

@davidlohrentz752 2 года назад

Thank you John. I cannot tell you how much you have helped me in my first year of shooting film. I was about to give up on 120 until I saw your tips on how to load it onto the reels. That is just one of many tips I use from your videos. I just got some phenidone, so I will do this straight away. I also got some Ascorbic Acid last year, that perhaps I should put into solution. Would you recommend TEA or Propylene Glycol for that? Also, since Ascorbic Acid seems to be typically used in larger amounts than Phenidone, would a 10% solution make sense, or is that too much to dissolve?

@PictorialPlanet 2 года назад

Thank you for you comment. I appreciate your kind words. I would make up a large batch of your main developer. If it's 510-pyro make a litre or 500ml. Same for PC-TEA. Your phenidone will dissolve up to 5% in glycol but then it becomes a bit harder to measure out for developers so you might try 2% which is my strongest. Unfortunately, the ascorbic acid is used in large amounts that are hard to keep in any solution. The good think is it's cheap so you might just buy fresh every 6 months. This is what I do.

@marcels.6514 Год назад

Hello John, a while ago we had a little chat about the Gainer variant of FX-55 (liquid part B) and the longer development times when compared to regular FX-55. Maybe you remember. Well. I finished my liquid part B and had to mix it again. This time I paid close attention to the temperature of the Glycol when mixing Phenidone and Ascorbic Acid. As it turns out my new batch of FX-55 is way more active than my previous batch. The Glycol, Phenidone and Ascorbic Acid all came from the same stock and unless I made a mixing error the only difference seems to be the temperature during mixing. This time the temperature was lukewarm, the previous time it was definitely warmer. This new part B will keep me going for a while, but when it is time to mix another bottle I need to make a choice. In an attempt to be more consistent I either pre-heat the Glycol to 35 or 40 deg Celcius (with the aid of a thermometer) and use that temperature as a standard for future batches or mix Glycol at room temperature and use that for future batches. Long mixing times do not bother me as I use a heated magnetic stirrer. Given these two options what would your choice be?

@PictorialPlanet Год назад

If you can dissolve it at room temperature then that's the best plan. Another way to shorten development time is to increase the amount of TEA in the B portion. Gainer said 10g (he said it was easier to weigh it than measure 10ml) but I've found 30g (30ml) works very well with more similar results to Crawley's original formula. If you've made a new batch with just 10g TEA you could just add the extra 20g TEA. This will bring up the PH.

@marcels.6514 Год назад

@@PictorialPlanet Thank you, thank you very much!

@lostintransitphoto Год назад

John, I just discovered your videos a few days ago and am really enjoying them. This is the first time I am going to mix my own developer from bulk. My goal is just to have some fun and learn a bit. I was planning on using Ilford Stop bath and Fixer just to reduce the variables that I am changing. I will use this to develop HP5. Any concerns using this Stop and Fixer with this developer? Thanks again for the amazing videos!

@PictorialPlanet Год назад

Hello Patrick I you are using Ilford Stop and Fix I'd recommend you start with D23 as a home made developer. It's much easier and safer and will work very well with your stop and fix. It's also a very good developer with Ilford HP5. You can replenish it too. There's a video in my chanel about that. Why not check out my website and look at D23 under the Advanced tab.

@colinclark3218 Год назад

Living on a small island off the coast of Thailand, I am limited in the developers and fixers available. Having seen Martyn Hanson enthusing about 510-Pyro, and having watched your videos on making 510-pyro and TF-2 fixer, I decided to make my own. I have managed to source all of the chemicals required in Thailand - all except Phenidone. I have ordered this from the UK (the postage is twice the cost of the product) and I'm waiting for everything to arrive. Up until now I'd assumed that I was going to be OK, chemical-wise, for a long time to come....And then I watched this video where you talked about the short shelf life of Phenidone. So, what should I do? I'll probably be OK for my first couple of batches of 510-Pyrol, but what to do about the rest of the Phenidone? Make loads of batches of 510-Pyrol (which you say has a loooooong shelf life), or can I mix the Phenidone with Propylene Glycol (as you did here) and preserve / use it that way? I look forward to hearing what you have to say about this. Many thanks for the videos and the advice contained therein.

@PictorialPlanet Год назад

Hi Colin. How much phenidone did you purchase?

@colinclark3218 Год назад

@@PictorialPlanet Only 10g. The price was almost 12 pounds, but the postage to Thailand was a further 25 pounds. This makes it rather expensive. I was wondering if I could preserve it by mixing it with TEA (0.375g per 100ml) and then using it as and when I needed it for further batches. I saw that you used a similar technique (Phenidone in Glycol) when making Pyrocat-HD.

@PictorialPlanet Год назад

You certainly could if you are only going to use it for 510-pyro. That would keep it for a long time. Just be careful not to heat it too much to dissolve it.

@colinclark3218 Год назад

Excellent. Many thanks for your advice.

@paulstillwell 2 года назад

Hi John - good stuff as always! I couldn't help but notice that in your instructions for 510-Pyro we heat the TEA to 80C and by the time you go back into the darkroom from the garden you are still saying to be careful with the beaker/jug as it is still very hot. Is it still hot enough to affect the Phenidone? I haven't noticed any issues with following those directions in fact I have been quite happy with the results.

@PictorialPlanet 2 года назад

Yes, I have used that method for a long time however, as I've been helping a couple of people with their thin, underdeveloped negative issues I found that their phenidone (in particular) was being effected by the heat. Now whether this was because of the age of the phenidone, the type (a, b, dimezone etc) or what I don't know but reducing the heat they took their solvent to cured the problem. It got me thinking that maybe we were all reducing the effectiveness of our developing agents by over heating them. This lead to me experimenting on how I could dissolve the agents most carefully and I found I could use less heat than originally specified by both me and the formulators. After helping these photos with their thin negative issue I realised it made perfect sense.

@paulstillwell 2 года назад

@@PictorialPlanet Many thanks for your efforts and insight! I appreciate all you are doing here :-)

@Rotogravure54 Год назад

Hello John, I have made two 100ml batches of PC-TEA. In both cases the Vit C didn't completely dissolve in the TEA. I estimate about 1/4 tsp of granules wouldn't go into solution. I heated it till almost to hot to hold, as you describe. Is it possible I need to heat it a bit more? I stirred for 30 minutes. My TEA is 99.9% pure. Might it go into solution if I just leave it sit over night?

@PictorialPlanet Год назад

Hi and thanks for your question. The ascorbic acid needs a higher temperature to be dissolved. The liquid must then be cooled to hand hot to dissolve the phenidone. I find my ascorbic acid needs 70-80c to go into solution and then I let it cool to 40c and dissolve the phenidone. This protects the phenidone from possible heat damage.

@alanhuntley55 2 года назад

Hi John, would you recommend following this same mixing procedure for Pyrocat-HD in glycol? I ask because I've mixed this formula for many years not giving a second thought to the fact that I'm heating the glycol to about 65C to start, but I've also had off-and-on issues with this developer. I may have to invest in some new Phenidone, too, as mine is several years old.

@PictorialPlanet 2 года назад

I would buy some fresh phenidone my friend and try this system. I will certainly try much harder to keep my dev agents cooler in future. It just makes sense to me. Don't know why I didn't think of it earlier.

@keechoongoh3684 2 года назад

Hi John, I have previously made some 510 Pyro with the instructions from your earlier video on it at 80 celcius. So far it does work but will there be any impact on activity as the chemicals has been mixed at that high a temperature? Also for phenidone, I have a bottle that is around 1 year old and kept in the dry cabinet always, is there anyway to test if it is still useful? Thanks!

@PictorialPlanet 2 года назад

Hello Kee. For many years I too have made 510 using the higher temperature with success so don't worry. If it works then that's good. This video is just showing a better way for the next time you make it. To test your phenidone you could make a PQ developer like ID68 or an ascorbic acid developer such as this by Gainer: Part A 450ml warm water 9g ascorbic acid 0.1g phenidone Water to 500ml Part B 7% solution sodium metaborate Use: 20A:20B:300 Water FP4+ EI100 6.5 mins 20C Ilford agitation

@keechoongoh3684 2 года назад

@@PictorialPlanet Thank you for the reply! I will try out the phenidone test and keeping in mind about the temperatures when working with organic solvents next time.

@pawemazur5200 2 года назад

Thank you for another great video! I don't want to use my only microwave to heat chemicals (especially afer a phenidone solution boiled over a few years ago, by my fault :)), so I use water bath for heating. At first, I was just controlling the temperature by pouring hot water to a 2l plastic container into which I dipped the beaker. Now I use a diy device for controlling temperature when developing films (a thermostat, an aquarium pump that pumps the water into the container through a diy heater (with e-cigarette wire) and a diy water cooler based on a Peltier element and a fan used in PCs). I have a huge amount of cheap propylene glycol, while TEA is dear and less available, so I am wondering whether I could prepare a modified concentrate of Pyro 510, which is my favourite staining developer, with 2 parts: (a) glycol and other ingredients in Part A, (b) water-based Part B with alkane ingredients that would replace the alkalinity of TEA - maybe Borax + Boric Acid, like in ID-68? Has anyone tried this?

@PictorialPlanet 2 года назад

Good idea... try Borax or Sodium metaborate for your water based activator. You'll have to do the work with calculating your development time but then just watch my recent video.

@theoldfilmbloke 2 года назад

I tried 10 secs with our Microwave set to 80 % and too COLD so gave another 10 secs and BLOW ME -- IT WAS TOO HOT !! I had to wait for it to cool down .

@PictorialPlanet 2 года назад

Wow!

@stojanovicmiljan Год назад

Can 510 Pyro be made with ethylene glycol instead of TEA ? If so, what will be the difference ?

@PictorialPlanet Год назад

All film developers need to be alkaline. 510 needs the TEA to make it alkaline. Without that it will not work.

@isaiaszepeda42 2 года назад

Did I miss something, did you mixed the propylene glycol with the TEA one been alkaline and the other acid, is that ok?

@PictorialPlanet 2 года назад

First of all you mix acids and alkalis all the time in photographic chemistry. There's absolutely no danger in that. Also The PH of Propylene glycol is neutral and TEA in water alkaline so I don't understand your comment? Which one's acid?

@isaiaszepeda42 2 года назад

@@PictorialPlanet I thought propylene glycol had some kind of acidity. So is it OK to mix the two? I have a specific mix one whir TEA 2% for 510 pyroand one with propylene glycol 2% for other the pyro HD so can I have just one mix for the tow of them any feedback will be appreciated

@PictorialPlanet 2 года назад

Yes, it's ok to have the one mix, using PG as your solvent. It's neutral and can therefore be added to any developer without spoiling the final PH.

@isaiaszepeda42 2 года назад

@@PictorialPlanet thank you so much for the feedback

@SD_Alias 2 года назад

Thank you, very interesting. Do you know how many phenidon can be solved in Propylen Glykol? Is it possible to make a 10% or stronger solution?

@PictorialPlanet 2 года назад

This is a good question but one I can't answer. I know if someone who says he keeps a 5% solution. I keep a 1% and a 2% but no more.

@SD_Alias 2 года назад

@@PictorialPlanet Thank you, I will try it with the next batch of phenidon.

@jhasi7974 2 года назад

but don’t you counteract the TEA giving the alkalinity to the development if u dilute the stock solution with such a large amount of propylene?

@PictorialPlanet 2 года назад

Good point but it would seem that it doesn't change it enough because it works very well. I'll do a PH test though and find out. I think the 75% TEA has enough buffering to keep its PH. Of course, if you are worried one could make a stronger phenidone solution in the propylene glycol, at least up to 5%. This would be 5x stronger and would therefore take only 5ml in 95ml TEA. However, my PC-TEA works perfectly, the same as when I dissolve the phenidone directly in the warm (not hot) TEA. Using propylene glycol means I can use the solution to keep my phenidone active for a very long time and not change the PH of developers.

@PictorialPlanet 2 года назад

Hi again J, I did the PH test this morning. The dilution for developing with PC-TEA is normally 1+50 so I chose that as my test dilution, 10ml to 500ml water. I took 500ml distilled water and added just 7.5ml TEA (simulating a 75% solution of TEA in PC-TEA as I made in the video) and stirred well. The measured PH, using an 8100 PH Meter, was 10.08. I then added 2.5 more ml TEA making 10ml TEA in the 500ml water and stirred well. This was now the same as a 100% TEA version of PC-TEA. The PH remained at 10.08. This shows me that the buffering PH of the TEA is the same at 75% as 100%. It was a good question you asked and deserved a thorough investigation to check if my thoughts were valid. This is also good info for the other RU-vid watchers, so thank you for your curiosity!

@jhasi7974 2 года назад

@@PictorialPlanet Hello John, well that’s nice to know since I’m looking forward on trying PC Tea aswell.. thanks a lot for your professional testing. At the moment I’m using FX-55 and I’m loving it! (Btw do u know how long one can use his opened Sodium ascorbate?) But since I’m travelling a lot i would love to try PC Tea because it’s so easy to bring along. Just need to buy some TEA. Thank u very much for this video and ur tips on how to mix this developer for its maximum activity. Greetings from Black Forest, Germany

@PictorialPlanet 2 года назад

Hello J! Thanks for your comment. I really like FX-55, it's a very good developer and somewhat better than PC-TEA but there is a lot more in it to make it better so that's no surprise. If you do try PC-TEA then add a little potassium bromide to the stock. It wasn't shown here because it's not in the original formula but Sandy King, of Pyrocat fame, suggested it to clean up the negatives. About 0.2g and dissolve after the ascorbic acid while the tea is still quite warm.

@szymonkomarnicki5649 2 года назад

Hello John, thank you for another great video! Do you have any experience with PG110B (less famous developer by Jay DeFehr)? It looks very interesting and even more eco friendly than PC-TEA. I was curious how these two compare. Best regards!

@PictorialPlanet 2 года назад

I've heard of it but have never tried it yet. I'll add it to me list. Sounds like a good developer for portraits.

@szymonkomarnicki5649 2 года назад

@@PictorialPlanet I think i'll give it a try with my expired Agfas.

@PictorialPlanet Год назад

How did your test with the PG110B go and the expired Alfas?

@szymonkomarnicki5649 Год назад

@@PictorialPlanet Hello John, I had problem mixing all the ingrdedients for this developer (I don't have magnetic stirrer) and I gave up. But thank you for reminding me about it. I'll try it again soon (I will just calculate one liter of diluted working solution without propylene glycol). PS. I fell in love with FX-55 and Fomapan 100 :)

@PictorialPlanet Год назад

So glad you liked FX55! BTW, I have videos here on making these developers without magnetic stirrers. Look back toward the beginning of the channel my friend.

@melody3741 Год назад

I think you're confusing organic with nonpolar. Still, a very good video.

@PictorialPlanet Год назад

Can you explain?

@gusmar8850 Год назад

Can you add the PG - phenidone solution directly to the pyro-510 as 375 ml ?

@PictorialPlanet Год назад

As 375ml? Not sure I understand the question, Gus.

@gusmar8850 Год назад

@@PictorialPlanet Yeah now that I thought of that more it is said that 1g of phenidone is 1% in 100 ml. My question would be 0.375 ml but that would be non-measurable

@PictorialPlanet Год назад

0.375g from a 1% solution is 37.5 ml.

@LaViejaConsolada 2 года назад

stupid question of the day: why you don't dissolve the phenidone directly in the TEA? Is because it would need higher temperatures?

@PictorialPlanet 2 года назад

There's no stupid question and this is a very good one. So, I use my phenidone 1% solution in many developers such as FX55, FX15, 510-pyro, Pyrocat HD, and more. If it was dissolved in TEA then when adding it to the developer the TEA would change the developer PH. This would change the developer's characteristics, development times, grain, tonality etc. With propylene glycol there's no PH change because it's neutral.

@LaViejaConsolada 2 года назад

@@PictorialPlanet makes sense, I haven't think about it. Thanks for the answer!

@PictorialPlanet 2 года назад

You are welcome my friend.

@calon5122 Год назад

Can I use propylene glycol for Dimezone S as well?

@PictorialPlanet Год назад

Absolutely! Dimezone S is but phenidone mk.4

@calon5122 Год назад

@@PictorialPlanet Thank you

@lynnsaychoate5415 2 года назад

I keep my phenidone(powder) in my freezer. Will this prolong its usability ?

@PictorialPlanet 2 года назад

Probably, is all I can say. I keep my glycin in the freezer for the same theoretical reason. But phenidone in propylene glycol keeps for a very long time.

@65PCH Год назад

I've had some phenidone in a sealed container for almost 10 years from when I originally made some PC-TEA. Just recently I made up some 510-Pyro using the 10 year old phenidone (and old TEA), and the developer is just as active as some other 510-Pyro I was given.

@PictorialPlanet Год назад

Good job keeping it sealed.

@markbloor7649 2 года назад

hi john can you store the phenidone in TEA ?

@PictorialPlanet 2 года назад

Hi Mark. Yes you can but TEA imparts alkalinity when added to water (or other developers) and might ruin the balance if the developer you are wanting to add phenidone to. Propylene glycol in neutral so doesn't change the developer you are adding it to.

@erome5903 2 года назад

Its PC-TEA any good?

@PictorialPlanet 2 года назад

It's not my favourite. I cover a much better vitamin C developer in my next book. Become a top tier Patreon and you'll get a free signed copy upon release.