IMRO Music Masterclass with Frankie Gavin at Temple Bar TradFest 2014 

I love this video and have a lot of respect for Frankie Gavin and his music, but I think it’s fair also to say that some of the claims he makes would be really quite contentious in the eyes of many fiddlers, including at professional level. He himself talks about economy of effort, but then playing ‘really loud’, however you achieve it, is going to take more effort, and will extract a certain tone from the fiddle that wouldn’t suit every player’s tastes (compared to many fiddlers he has quite a crunchy, choppy, staccato sort of sound). He also talks about using the wrist for primarily short bow strokes, but you watch videos of Bobby Casey and he sometimes slurs a number of notes into a surprisingly long bow stroke, using much more arm - but then of course, he sounds very different! So it’s not that there’s a ‘right and wrong’ as such, but it depends on what sort of sound that you’re going for, and I only wish that Gavin would clarify a bit more in this video that the principles he outlines are not necessarily definitive.

Here’s a good example of Casey’s bowing: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-Glof1yEAKt4.html Compared to the other fiddlers in the video, I would say his playing looks more relaxed due to the longer, slurred bow strokes, rather than despite them - surely in that sense using more arm could in fact be a truer economy of effort than lots of shorter, faster strokes?

+Ann Mesrobian Very interesting. In fact I often wonder whether most of today's young Irish fiddle players don't have some degree of classical training themselves - there certainly is a cleanliness and precision to their playing that wasn't often seen in the past. Frankie alludes to that at 42:30.

+Wafaloo You are spot on. Some will snipe and say classical training is too rigid but nothing compares to a solid foundation of good technique and posture when it comes to navigating around an instrument as touchy as a violin/fiddle. Another almost dead give-away on classical training is how the person holds the bow. Almost nobody lacking classical background holds the bow the way it's "supposed to" be held, with the hand on the frog. It is so much easier to grab the stick somewhere in the middle, and use the frog as a counter balance. This means the player can only use part of the bow which doesn't matter for rhythmic bow shuffles but severely limits a more lyrical style where long melody notes and phrasing is important. Body posture is also an essential component of good playing, but even classically trained folks can have bad posture. Things are improving now, partly due to increased understanding of the importance of core strength, the popularity of pilates training, etc. Many old-school classical musicians (all instruments) were trained to keep body motion to a minimum, something that might be desirable in a symphony or chamber music setting lest individual people become a distraction to the whole. But really, sitting dead still while pulling or blowing emotionally moving music out of an instrument causes other tensions to develop. I am glad to see that the old rigid-statue-poker-face ideals are gradually relaxing in symphonies and smaller ensembles so that a degree of individual expression is allowed as part of the whole.

Many of these guys would probably have no formal training...sound production etc might be foreign territory ...neither would they agree with classical training. If you listen to trad flute players the picture is worse..often poor rasping sound /frequent octave skipping/dreadful posture /poorish intonation/ little variety in tone colour/tight embuchure..however if you go back to the earlier exponents of excellence and listen to Paddy Carty/Paddy Taylor you can see what was in the tradition....it is not easy to be that good ,but it can be taught to a pupil with the requisite aptitude

well, they can also become natural through use, without really knowing what a third or sixth is technically. for example i listen to my partner test various options on her banjo to see what sounds right, then she goes with that. this seems to have carried over into her fiddle.

+Carlos Montenegro , think its called "The glen of Atherlow" or "Laferty's reel".

It's actually The Glen of Aherlow, also known as Lafferty's

ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-sKnXKeKkeY8.html

No, just that it's different and that some trained classical players have difficulty in adapting their technique and often have an issue in interpreting the music. It's all down to experience really, neither is superior or inferior.

22:34 Tripping Up the Stairs

It's a jig called Tripping up the stairs I believe.