In Praise of Subtle Cinematography

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(This video is spoiler free)
Visually evocative, stunningly beautiful films are often the ones that get a lot of attention (for good reason!) for their cinematography. But some of the best cinematography is incredibly subtle and subdued. In this video I highlight some of the ways subtler cinematography can be just as impactful and beautiful.
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1 дек 2022

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Комментарии : 381

@LikeStoriesofOld Год назад

Fine, Thomas, I'll watch Burning again

@zvodin1209 Год назад

Masterpiece of a film

@rikuzi00007 Год назад

I didn’t get it. I thought it was boring and too long.

@unmaskvon Год назад

@@rikuzi00007 skill issue

@thedivinemessenger Год назад

one of my favorite youtube pages like stories of old good to see you King

@kasra_mlg Год назад

Like you were waiting for an excuse !

@DodaGarcia Год назад

The thing that seems to go unsaid in cinematography essays is that one of the reasons bold shots stand out is how they stand in contrast with the rest of a film. Those "beautiful shot" compilations are very fun to watch in the context of wanting to watch a series of visually striking shots, but a film where every shot tried to be cooler or attention-grabbing would be exhausting to watch. And yeah definitely agreed on how it's often the subtler cinematography work that does the most heavy lifting of communicating subtext, even on a subconscious level.

@Advent3546 Год назад

That exhaustion brought on by attention-grabbing shots is pretty part and parcel to Michael Bay's style. There is no in-between shot, every moment of every scene is brought to its MOST.

@ThomasFlight Год назад

This is a great point!

@Alba-ze5jn Год назад

I kind of agree, but there are also nice exceptions like Blade runner 2049. Every shot is gorgeous and i wouldn't have it any other way

@skullsaintdead Год назад

@@Alba-ze5jn Agree there are exceptions, like The Fall (2006), which I love. Not only is the beauty of the film enthralling, the story is heart-warming and endearing. Seeing a child's sense of wonder and awe at storytelling, where your father (or a father-like figure, i.e. Lee Pace) makes you out to be the protagonist of your own tale of good and bad, it's truly wonderful and empowering. I wish more kids got to enjoy that kind of love.

@Coverpage2568 Год назад

@@ThomasFlight Bro beware some scammers are using your name for fake giveaways.

@briancrouch4389 Год назад

This channel is the most under-rated cinema critique and performance art channel on youtube. This dude has shown me so many new movies and tv shows that I love and educated me. Top notch content. Thank you.

@chasehedges6775 Год назад

I love his content. His review of Andor is great.

@YourBlackLocal Год назад

I mean.. it’s probably one of the most popular, especially for what he’s doing. A video literally got 2.2M views 3 weeks ago.

@AdamKrukowski Год назад

how its underraed? 663k subs

@franconero515 Год назад

This is how you comment !

@mbagga8440 Год назад

Do you know any other good movie critics channels

@TheOriginalDogLP Год назад

Its great to see you use "Burning" so much. Love that movie and its a masterpiece of subtle storytelling

@joshgoodman9882 Год назад

THANK YOU! It’s such a struggle for most of the friends I talk to about films to articulate anything about cinematography other than “it was pretty”. Can be frustrating that they miss out on all the other qualities about the camera work that service the greater story. & when you dig into it they think you’re “over thinking it”. This “in praise of subtle.. ____” series needs to touch on every department on a set, this is so wonderful Thomas thank you thank you thank you

@stephen_blake Год назад

I'll never forget in Phantom Thread the scene where the camera moves from the dress into the two characters to signify how Reynolds priorities are shifting from dressmaking to Alma

@MrDomq22 Год назад

Everytime I watch one of your videos I get that movie fizz - I just want to enjoy a beautifully shot movie with a cup of warm coffee and melt into my couch. You do fantastic work, Thomas.

@just_doug Год назад

The one subtle shot that nearly made me fall out of my chair was actually in Wandavision. From the start it follows the rules of a three cam sitcom, and is so amazingly consistent with it that when (in the dinners scene, first episode I think) wanda starts to notice something is off, they show it by simply using a close up camera angle that couldn't possibly be in a three cam sitcom. Such a genius way to use the crux/gimmick of your story as a tool for drawing the audience into wandas (very unique) perspective.

@samwallaceart288 Год назад

Yeah, the camerawork went straight from _I Love Lucy_ to _Twilight Zone._

@mageytodd659 Год назад

@@samwallaceart288 Perfectly put

@LowProfile0247 Год назад

Seriously? A freaking Marvel show?

@guerillawhite3083 Год назад

its a really cool shot but i wouldn't call that subtle

@REChronic54 Год назад

For some reason when I think of subtle cinematography, I think of the end of Sicario where Benicio Del Toro’s character confronts the female lead. And he’s nearly sitting in the dark while the light in the background can barely illuminate his face. I don’t think it’s that profound of a shot but it’s so ordinary looking that people don’t think twice about it.

@albegian Год назад

I know you already commented on it in another video months ago, but what Better Call Saul did with its subtle cinematography and subtle performances throughout all 6 seasons is probably a masterclass of everything shown in here and your other videos. My highest praises for that show

@godawful5600 Год назад

100% agree. Does the bold shots and performances INCREDIBLY well, but also the subtlety in that show in terms of those two aspects is what really drew me in. It’s so slow and quiet but feels even more impactful that way. I appreciate how it built its momentum so naturally over the course of each season.

@strawberryqueen0382 Год назад

I think about the one super long take where the delivery truck is being inspected for drugs for DAYS. It’s so impressively beautiful.

@justinhughees Год назад

YES

@Azure1013 Год назад

@@godawful5600 Honestly, Breaking Bad in many ways laid out the groundwork for what Better Call Saul became. In Breaking Bad, they experimented with stylistic techniques such as their signature montage sequences which would later be employed in Better Call Saul with arguably more grace. They put together their toolkit throughout the development of Breaking Bad, and went in deeper with Better Call Saul and created something really brilliant.

@daniellee2343 Год назад

Season 6 sucked though.

@lyndabethcave3835 Год назад

One of my favourite examples of subtle cinematography is in Deux Jours, Une Nuit (Two Days, One Night), where every time Sandra argues with one of her coworkers to allow her to keep her job, there's a line, formed by something in the background, between them - representing the emotional wall she has to overcome.

@Azure1013 Год назад

I don't usually write comments like this, but I honestly want to thank you. This way you presented the ideas and topics intercut with clips from films and how you broke them down gave me new perspectives on a handful of what were already some of my favourite films. Honestly, watching this video may have given me some more insight into what I'm drawn toward in films because a lot of the moments you drew from as examples are precisely the moments that resonate with me the most. I'm writing this comment as a personal thank-you because I feel that I really got something out of watching it. There are plenty of times when I watch video essay info-dump videos on RU-vid as a way of procrastinating, and most of the time I click off halfway through because I look at how long it is and realize that I could be spending my time doing something better. Here, you presented the ideas in an engaging and concise manner; I got more out of watching this 13 minute video than most hour long video essays I see on RU-vid. I've gotten more conservative with my subscriptions these days, but you've just earned another subscriber. Thank you for the truly educational content.

@nalbis Год назад

bro loves burning lately 🥲

@CaptainSinbad Год назад

Goat RU-vidr

@storytellers1 Год назад

Waiting for you to put a new banger out as well

@patrickmoran8583 Год назад

Thomas, great discussion on cinematography. Burning is an all around fantastically photographed and composed film. They do a great job of using subtle techniques as you mentioned here while also using splashy moments like Hae-mi dancing during sunset or the slow motion greenhouse. The contrast between these two techniques elevates the movie to be more than a sum of its parts.

@HerbieChuckNorris Год назад

Instantly thought of Richard Linklater. I think his unobtrusive style contributes so much to the realism and 'hangout' nature of his films. Watched Before Sunset last night and its reserved direction and cinematography is a great strength.

@ddebnath11 Год назад

Please do "In Praise of Subtle Music" next.

@rafaelc.c. Год назад

Definetely. I couldn't stand the soundtrack of Dune for instace. Or most of Zimmer's recent work. He goes to loud, to wild and too out of place. And it takes me out of the film. Not that I want minimalistic compositions or orchestration, but I prefer when soundtracks go so elegant like Howard Shore's The Lord of the Rings, which still has big moments, iconic themes and full orchestra. John Williams really know how to go subtle and loud accordingly.

@ddebnath11 Год назад

@@rafaelc.c. Dune is a grand film (huge scale), I think Zimmer represented the scale well by being loud (I'm not a sound expert, just my thoughts). If u want Zimmer being subtle, the dark knight and Dunkirk I think has good subtle bg music which enhances the scenes. But I do agree Zimmer went too loud in inception.

@ianmiller6798 Год назад

A lot of the “loud” music in Inception is supposed to be the slowed down notes from outside the dream coming into the dream level that works at a different speed

@internisus Год назад

Absolutely love this video. I'm continually trying to improve my film literacy and more deeply see what I'm watching. Internalizing these examples will help me to grow!

@simonboccanegra3811 Год назад

Dick Pope's work with Mike Leigh, in decades of films such as Naked, Secrets & Lies, All or Nothing, Vera Drake, and Another Year, begs mention here. People might think of Leigh as someone who makes visually no-frills films that are about dialogue and acting, but their cinematography is vivid and of increasing sophistication. I love in Another Year how each section of the film, corresponding to one of the calendar seasons, has its own distinct look. We're just seeing people in their houses and gardens, some bars and offices, but it has a visual style that lingers in the mind.

@oldmatttv Год назад

I love the Mike Leigh approach. It's an interesting method overall to construct scenes. Naked and Vera Drake are great, still haven't watched most of his other films.

@Cestial Год назад

I have to leave this comment expressing how much I liked everything about the background and framing you chose for yourself. Often, video essays come across as lectures, where there is a definite visual separation established between the presenter and the audience. Everything about this one, however, is extremely welcoming and personal. Keep up the good work, I'm enjoying these videos! :)

@jeffbronson3696 Год назад

There’s a similarity between Thomas’ videos and subtle cinematography. Just like how movies with flashy cinematography are celebrated, there are video essayists who churn out monster multi-hour long content whose series’ are lauded all over RU-vid, Reddit, Tumblr, Twitter. Thomas provides consistent, shorter, less in-your-face content that’s equally inspiring and important.

@MenelikTheFirst Год назад

For me, 12 Angry Men ranks amongst the best in terms of cinematography. I’ve never seen a film convey it’s messages, emotions and themes so perfectly with simple lens choices and composition.

@papacinoooo Год назад

yes! everytime i watch it, it makes me feel like im a part of the jurors.

@elijahalbiston 2 месяца назад

I've heard people call it a masterclass in blocking

@juma__ Год назад

This is one of my favorite youtube channels. Thanks for the work you put into this videos.

@afterimage1993 Год назад

Sweet! another video! Recently have been trying to get into filming, this channel is just what I needed.

@appleciderwitch Год назад

Thomas - I'm always so excited to see a new video of yours. Your critiques and praise for the subtleties of film's parts - cinematography, narrative, editing are always SO precise, detailed and presented in a beautiful manner. You're an amazing writer and one of my new favorite media critics.

@appleciderwitch Год назад

Honestly while nothing will ever replace Every Frame a Painting in my heart, you're definitely the worthiest successor to that position.

@moonbootz5499 Год назад

i fully maintain that you are the reason i’m passing my cinema studies class

@TheAlexcassun Год назад

I love all the Burning love on your channel. It was my favorite film of that year, and is a contender for my favorite film of the decade.

@bombdatacenters Год назад

Recently I watched "High Noon" for the first time, and I was struck by how plain most of the cinematography in the film was, yet how effective it remained. I think a lot of modern movies and shows try to have every shot be striking like the shining, especially "artistic" kinds of movies. While I appreciate the beauty of these shots, I can't help but wonder how they serve the story in many cases.

@helvete_ingres4717 Год назад

the edit from the church to the railway line showing the incoming noon train with each shot mirroring the composition of the other (aisle between the church pews aligning with the train tracks) is just...chef's kiss

@MariaVosa Год назад

This video encapsulates everything I absolutely love about this channel!

@LT1 Год назад

You picked some great shots for that montage in the beginning. Made me want to rewatch each of those literally right now lol.

@gianniranzuglia7791 Год назад

This is why I think the technical achievements awards are ridiculous at times. Each film tries to achieve something different, some need big rigs and bold images, whilst others need to be small and very unnoticeable. These days it looks like more is better sadly.

@ziircon2347 Год назад

I read Barn Burning for the first time just the other day, so its nice to see this film pop up on my screen again! A brilliant video as always!!

@tylerfukuda Год назад

Burning is such an amazing film and always thought there was something special in it’s cinematography. Nothing bringing attention to itself and only to serve the story. This is cinematography to me!

@zacharywong483 Год назад

Fantastic video! I love your explanations of how cinematography choices, blocking in shots, and so many other elements of film work in so many films! And great choice of video topic here with subtler examples of cinematography as well!

@Alba-ze5jn Год назад

Burning really strokes a chord with me in every level i can think of. I'm always happy to see you talking about it!

@c.a.savage5689 Год назад

It's extremely rare to find a RU-vid video (much less a channel) that addresses its subject with as much knowledge, expertise and examples, culminating in a shared experience of what makes cinema great. The French channel ARTE does this with its series BLOW-UP on RU-vid, focusing on specific themes, actors, directors, etc. But it's in French. That being said, l am grateful to have found this.

@storytellers1 Год назад

Don't fix your viral video firnat it if it aint broken

@MonotremeFilms Год назад

Yours is and remains one of the best film criticism channels on RU-vid. This is beautifully observed and well put together.

@MonotremeFilms Год назад

And by the way, I watch movies with the sound off all the time specifically with the purpose of studying the cinematography when prepping for a project. Strongly endorse.

@nKacey Год назад

Can i just say, you have a really calming voice. I appreciate your videos 😊

@Exnem Год назад

I love this channel just for the movie recommendations. Great video overall too.

@zmbo7806 Год назад

That camera tilt and the close in Chijiiwa's face when Omodaka draws the sword .. Harakiri is a masterpiece.

@malikom Год назад

Great explanations as always! I'm glad you're aiming for more niche shows for your videos

@alpha8here Год назад

This is so beautiful and helpful! I hope there are more In Praise of Subtle... videos. I hope to apply these to my works

@rmschindler144 11 месяцев назад

wow... this is superb. (your commentary satisfies the intellect and the scenes you chose touch the heart).

@maniravandi5983 Год назад

Amazing as usual. I'd love to see one In praise of subtle directing

@venes0297 Год назад

Phantom Thread is one of my favourite films ever, especially from a visual perspective. It's so overlooked, I'm glad someone is talking about it

@timoleary5815 Месяц назад

I watched Burning the first time completely blind in a Cineworld Cinema with about 5 other people. I was absolutely memorised and have lost count of how many times I've seen it now. An oft used word in cinema, but Burning really is a masterpiece. And thanks Thomas for your outstanding work on RU-vid, I've learned so much about cinema from your extremely informative videos.

@amirfld6375 8 месяцев назад

I'm just so glad that you talk about Burning so much. believe it or not, no other movie has ever touched me and made me feel the way this film did. from script to acting and finally cinematography is hands down perfection. It's the only movie ever that I immediately watched just a few hours after I finished it and it has not left me since then also the soundtrack is very simplistic yet effective. every shot and frame in this film is intentional and is trying to say something in a very "subtle" way. It's drama. it's romance. it's in many ways political but again very subtle about it. I'm just glad someone else like you Thomas has acknowledged Burning the way it should be.

@hsynsrky Год назад

You pointed out I think the most important thing when it comes to storytelling in this medium. You have this very powerful tool called camera and lens which can change the whole experience. I don't think setting, art design, casting, blocking, performance and many other elements are any less important than the camera and lens choice but only good storytellers can combine those all in a enique way to tell that spesific story. That's why I love directors like PTA.

@mattyisnice Год назад

Is dat a little Boss I see in the background?? Yet another fantastic video -- I am getting ready to watch Burning and The Souvenir (+ Part II), and Harakiri. You explain things so well and get me so excited about cinema and as a movie lover that is the best feeling. Keep it up Thomas!

@ShoggothLord Год назад

I'm so glad you mentioned Harakiri. That film needs to get more love.

@kicker7955 Год назад

This adds a point that i've been thinking about a lot - when is cinematography part of the piece - of the message, done for the audience - and when is it a creative indulgence, a not to others in the know and ads nothing or even takes away from the film?

@matandragones9408 Год назад

I can't express how grateful I am for this videos

@oriheller2852 Год назад

Thomas flight's new video on a friday?? Hell yes!

@userunknown203 Год назад

Epic video, as always. I still want a bookshelf tour.

@BenRaphaelGarcia Год назад

Your channel is amazing!! Thank you!

@GIRISHKUMAR-rf3ef Год назад

11:49 Love to see Satyajit Ray's mention here. Man was definitely ahead of his time.

@sheiryard8149 Год назад

Watched Burning because of your videos and loved it, thanks for the recommendation

@Edensproject Год назад

you're absolutely my fav channel here on youtube. no doubt

@jamiea.m.3037 Год назад

Always a delight to watch one of your videos.

@visions_of_noah Год назад

I wish Thomas would be able to talk more in the podcast, because everyhing he says is precious

@Mad1Lee Год назад

Great video, man, as a filmmaker myself I enjoy your stuff!

@mwadz Год назад

This is a great video!! I'd love to see the names of the films put in the corner when footage of them plays. I want to put them all on my watch list, and it would be easier than going back and hearing one of the time you say their names. Other than that this is wonderful!

@JC-tu6hc Год назад

Thank you for talking about phantom thread. My favorite looking film maybe ever?

@edv3795 Год назад

keep up the good work!

@floratinuviel2762 Год назад

Sooo good to see someone talking about TAOJJBTCRF (LOL). It was one of the most beautiful cinematic experiences for me.

@Kaspar_Houser Год назад

Featuring Burning in the beginning and naming Malick and Wes Anderson as favorite directors is telling me i found a new fave film youtuber here! I prefer the earlier more grounded feeling works of Anderson tho with Rushmore and Bottlerocket. Will you make a video on poetic cinema like Malick, Tarkovsky, Angelopoulos..? That would be wonderful

@overseastom Год назад

Might be worth mentioning btw y'all - if your smart TV doesn't actually carry Mubi, you might be able to subscribe via Amazon instead. I just noticed on Amazon Prime yesterday, that I could add the Mubi "channel" via their app too. I don't know if you can apply Thomas's discount code though, so try the non-Amazon ways first!

@tinroof8700 Год назад

Good work, my man - keep it up!!

@SP-cp3qu Год назад

i love burning too great vid!

@mojorojo818 11 месяцев назад

When it comes to subtle cinematography, one should really look into the work of satyajit ray. From pather panchali to Big City, Ray has mastered the art of subtle cinematography. Also great video on one of my favourite film elements!!!

@videobytesjacobbradley Год назад

Great video Thomas. I've been appreciating more and more films where the director and cinematographer's collaboration is almost "hidden" or not trying to give the story anything more than it needs. Films like Revenge of the Nerds or Planet of the Apes, where the composition and lighting is fairly understated. It shows a prioritization to the economic aspect of the craft. Simplicity and and even an attitude of "let's shoot this fucker!"

@iainronald4217 Год назад

Two of my favourite films for subtle cinematography are Thomas Alfredson's Tinker Tailor Soldier Spy and Luca Guadagnino's Suspiria. They're flat, they're static, the colours are washed out but it helps envelop you in this world more than a dynamic camera with popping colours would.

@CinematicGestures Год назад

Wyler is a master at this, particularly when it comes to blocking and composition. Check out what are essentially chamber pieces like The Childrens’ Hour, Desperate Measures, or Little Foxes with his bigger pictures like Roman Holiday, Ben Hur, and what I think is one of the absolute greatest films ever, The Best Years of Our Lives.

@reptongeek Год назад

I love The Best Years of Our Lives, I've watched it at least six or seven times over the years

@Bjhorn279 9 месяцев назад

Such a perfect companion video to subtle acting! Also makes me want to watch Burning again

@PopoMedic Год назад

I love this channel way too much.

@derrickbrak4893 Год назад

As soon as you mentioned The Souvenir, I wanted to comment on the scene where she crosses the line, but you got there first 😄 Another good example is in Leave No Trace, where Debra Granik doesn't use a single close-up until about 20 minutes from the end. When the shot finally came, I gasped without even knowing why in the moment. Incredible film

@lucy1130 Год назад

Helping me with my film studies a level with every video, man!!!! tysmmmmm >:))

@morganburt2565 Год назад

it’s gotten to the point where if i see a “beautiful shot” i’m pulled out of whatever i’m watching. i’d blame this on me watching so many youtube videos on cinematography lol. there’s this video i watched years and years ago about how doors/windows can be used to create a feeling of distance or of being trapped- i can’t unsee it

@JakeBrannan5499 Год назад

I want to see all that your shelf in the background holds

@maxcooper2850 Год назад

Burning is absolutely fantastic. Glad to hear other people like it!

@kieranbr Год назад

I think one of the best examples of subtle cinematography is the late Yasujiro Ozu. His film “Late Spring” is a great example of subtle cinematography

@flermilyxx 4 месяца назад

Excellent breakdown of the subtler styles of cinematography! Other directors, that come to my mind, who do this very well are Kelly Reichardt and Ryusuke Hamaguchi. Thanks for the great content!

@planeguy95 Год назад

Roger Deakins, imo, is the master of subtle cinematography. In fact, most of his style seems to focus on lighting rather than camerawork

@pointlesstairs1001 9 месяцев назад

This makes me think of Samurai Jack. Jack is a character who always expresses himself to us with very big facial expressions. He is a samurai so there is a lot of fighting most of the time but in some episodes he just walks. Those episodes makes me feel so much more. Sometimes in those subtle episodes it gets so quiet for so long that I check if there is a problem with the audio. While watching it again, I stopped and questioned how I enjoyed this series when I was a little kid.

@3_se_ Год назад

You know you don't have to apologize for continually championing this film. It is one of the best films of the 21st century, perhaps only topped by Mulholland Drive and Tree of Life

@TooleyPeter Год назад

So helpful. Thank you.

@tigerbajunior Год назад

well done and well said

@Pihasanddunes1 9 месяцев назад

6:57. I had to smile when the phrase 'suck a lot of the subtlety out' appeared over a shot of Will Ferrell and Julia Louis-Dreyfus. I know the comment is about the writing, but still.

@elichilton7031 Год назад

Sometimes the deepest visual metaphors in film arise out of the simplest shots. Remember Cool Hand Luke when he is singing after learning his mother died, and it's raining outside.

@Hexx24 Год назад

I think you should do an essay on Burning. Although I understood the finale after doing some research, it can feel confusing at first.

@demonictowtoe7983 Год назад

I prefer subtlety in movies honestly, it gives the film a sense of hernest-ness. Makes me feel comfortable, yet extravagant cinematography has it's place and is still beautiful

@alphafilms_at 6 месяцев назад

really good and informative video ❤

@mrflipperinvader7922 Год назад

7:55 that's one thing I've heard when people dissect PTA's work pre-There Will Be Blood and post-There Will Be Blood, where the camera wasn't as frantically moving with many "show-offy bells and whistles" techniques

@fairamir1 11 месяцев назад

Love the beard in thois video! Perfect length !

@VashikArmenikus Год назад

It would be great to have a list of films from this video. There are some masterpieces I've not seen yet/

@chloeglazer7991 Год назад

one movie i thought had wonderful cinematography was The Black Phone. The camera angles almost make the space look smaller, while the sunlight and the light sources move and are usually out of reach, often when Finney feels hopeless or is on the verge of giving up. its also a great movie highly recommended

@Dean444ful Год назад

Great videos and totally unrelated but I haven’t watched a movie critique in probably years and I’m so glad we’ve moved past that era when video essayists would take an unnecessarily long pause between… every… word…

@lorcan545 Год назад

In The Souvenir, the earlier handheld scenes are shot on 16mm film, and the subsequent more composed visual language is on digital - so called 16mm digital. There are like half a dozen different formats used in the film. I read this in an interview with dp David Raedeker in Seventh Art. It is worth emphasizing what an evolution in visual style this film is over Joanna Hogg’s previous three films.

@tcrijwanachoudhury Год назад

I loathed that film, very difficult to sit through, it was my friends favourite 😭

@KendrixD Год назад

One thing I hate the most about stunning cinematography is that some directors abuse it, making everything they shot all about the visual aspects without giving them substance (cough cough Zack Snyder). Great cinematography isn’t about creating spectacles on screen, it’s merely a tool to convey a story that is being told visually. A great director knows how effective it can be and use it to its full potential with just the perfect amount. An example I always look at is the interrogation scene from Zodiac, everything: from the camera movements, where the scene’s shot from, how the background is set up, to the quick cuts between each shot. It’s very subtle, but it takes a true master of the craft with years of experience to pull off. And like the genius mind behind that scene once said: “People will say there are a million ways to shoot a scene, but I don't think so. I think there're two, maybe. And the other one is wrong.”