It's sad that they made us fall in love with the idea of Moria being a mutant and a puppeteer and pull the rug out from us and depower her and still never clearly explain her long-term plan. Deeply disappointed.
You're forgetting/ignoring the fact that Moira could be cloned. I thoroughly believe the "Homo Novissima Xavier" did that and that's why her 6th life in the Preserve didn't count. That timeline didn't disappear when Moira 9 died nine hundred years before. And she was already in a comatose state 'back' then
@@Sequelaboy7 assuming that the depowering thing is permanent is just a strange thing to believe for me. I guess I just trust the other writers. I know a lot of people are obsessed with specifically Hickman.
Didn’t Moria have Destiny’s diaries in the last page of X-men before inferno started ? I really thought that would come into play but clearly that was just a tease 🙁
Also about Professor X and Magneto knowing what Moira really wants to do (around 15:00 in the discussion) - Emma Frost explains it - Charles sees the strengths when he reads minds, Emma sees weaknesses and focuses on it. So she saw her bad plans but Charles effectively glossed over them. Charles can see what the mind wants him to see, Emma can see what the mind does not want her to see.
One thing I've found interesting once I started paying attention to fandom is how people are disappointed when they don't get what they predict, but then they are also disappointed when they predict everything and get it. The human mind is fascintating.
Honestly, it’s kinda why I try to avoid prediction channels because it becomes a spiral of negativity that just isn’t fun. Nothing wrong with fun predictions and questions but if it takes away from the vibes then I’m out lol
Yo !! Moira’s left over arm has samples of her DNA pre Forge gun…. Plus who knows what Sinister has on Moira… Moira is now the X-Men version of Vandal Savage. Can we examine how much of Sinister’s notes came out in Hickman’s run ?,
I feel like this all goes back to when Destiny told Moira she’d have 11 lives if she made the right choice. That choice may be for Moira to become mutant again because a life reset is needed later on down the line. The conversation between Moira and Cypher may also play a role in that as well.
One thing I have not heard considered yet: what if the way the mutants "win" IS that Moira is depowered and doesn't live long enough to see what she had ( intentionally or not) set in motion with Krakoa in the grander scale of things?
Great show, u guys summed it up perfectly. HoX and PoX were like an amazing season 1 of a show that teased an amazing well written, planned story to be told over 3 seasons...all these subplots and ensemble characters that will have their own cool little stories and it will all come together at the end and tell a satisfying adventure where all the season 1 teases will have been touched on. Now we are realizing it's still just a TV show and there was no real middle and end game, just a hook to keep you watching, but it's not doing enough twists to really be binge worthtimeliness. After the hype of inferno 3 I wanted 4 to end on a helluva cliffhanger/status change like Moira/Council all find out about Omega Sentinels future and have to change how they are approaching things/figure out why the two have different sets of outcomes line up. I would have settled for Rasputin falling out of a portal saying "we won" but we have to get you to life 14. Give us another hook where we have a new interesting destination and a framework where we can still go back and tell interesting stories and retouch on any other fun threads by bouncing around timelines.
Blerdwithoutfear and Comic book herald you did an amazing job on this video. I love hearing you both speak. you guys spoke very well on all the topics. I really love hearing what you 2 have to say!
Omg I just cried over that cancelled Storm Baby (with Tchalla) thing but you made me laugh and move on with it...everyone wants her to have a baby nope not gonna get it...🤣😂🤣 Thank you for this...
I'm not sure why Moira bothered put together Krakoa in the first place, if her plan all along was to try the mutant cure plan again. It also doesn't follow from what she spent her 9th life to learn. I suppose it's more she doesn't have hope for Krakoa, since they couldn't stop the creation of Nimrod and she realized she couldn't manage Xavier and Magneto.
Moira did the Krakoa experiment because it was a plausible win scenario but the problem is that Moira is a pessimist. She thinks her 9 lives of experience give her the knowledge of every possible thing when it clearly doesn’t. It’s not an error in writer or the story is just who Moira has become as a character
I wanted to see the a.i. that doug and phantom x left in the “world” come back into play, plus what that dang key was about that magneto got in his giant size issue.
The idea of Wolverine protecting Apocalypse is extremely cool/exciting, but I don't think it's gonna happen. Honestly I'm hoping it's Solem. Does Solem have anything to do with Inferno or Destiny? No. Would it feel like kind of a cop-out? Yes. But Solem is the character that Percy's best at writing, so if we're going to have a huge Wolverine comic/event, I'd rather it lean into his strengths. Also, I'm a sad Storm/Yukio shipper, but I'm weirdly ok with the idea of Storm/Exodus lol. They've both got... a vibe?
I honestly enjoyed where Inferno ended. I just think people dug themselves into a Theory Hole and are so disappointed they didn’t strike gold that they’re willing to throw the platinum they found into the sea. The thing that was suppose to shock us about Moira was the fact that she wanted to cure mutants because before HOX she was the strongest human ally to mutants. Now it’s revealed that Moira deep down is a pessimist who’d rather turn the game off then play and loss. We’ve been shown throughout this era that Moira is deeply flawed, like she’s a scientist who is using a very finite amount of data to extrapolate infinite possibilities that always end in Mutants losing. We see in Omega Sentinels future that Mutants can win so Moira is point-blank wrong. Her being turned human is suppose to be the death of Moira X and the birth of whatever she will become after, whether that’s enemy or ally. Not to mention all the other threads still dangling into DoX like chimeras, otherworld, the phalanx, Orchis, Arakko/Mars. From what I can tell, If Hickman had continued the way he had in the beginning then all of these threads would have been severed.
@@rhustoxfordinner Krakoa wasn’t to get rid of Destiny. Krakoa was the plan to allow the mutants to “win”. But Moira believes that no matter what they do, eventually something will come up that causes mutants to lose. Moira doesn’t want Destiny resurrected because Destiny will see that Moira doesn’t actually believe in Krakoa.
@@rhustoxfordinner Krakoa is just the latest plan, it has nothing to do with curing mutants. Moira believes Krakoa and any plan to save mutants will fail so she always has the back-up of curing mutants. Moira believes curing mutants (turning them human) is the only way to eliminate mutant suffering. It’s confusing but an easy analogy is that “Moira would rather quit playing a board game then play and lose. And she believes her team (mutants) will always lose”. How she’ll cure mutants hasn’t been revealed yet, but we do know that she invented a chemical mutant cure in 2 of her past lives
You probably already know this but there were a lot of sound issues in this video and also very low overall volume. Other than that as an X-Men fan it was interesting and I hope we will still quality X-Men comics also from 2022 onwards.
Am I the only one seeing it!. Charles being the first chimera or a secret prototype. Charles using telekinesis to take the usb drive in hox/pox, and this telekinetic blast on nimrod.
My biggest question -- what was up with all the "chaos" and "time breaking" Doug brought with him, per Destiny, as he entered the room? Is Doug a Future Big Bad? Or was Destiny actually referencing one of the Doug Squad behind him -- Bei, Warlock, or Krakoa?
She broke it down when she gave the three options. Him walking in the room disrupted their plans entirely and only left them with one plausible option. That would be considered chaos if you were planning something that was working smoothly
Wish I could've asked this live I'll ask it now: doesn't it bother any of you that in HoX/PoX Hickman wrote that the Omega Level mutants are Krakoa's greatest resource, but then and Inferno the Omegas weren't tapped even Once to try to solve any of Krakoa's existential problems? If all I read was the Hickman era of X-Men I would be left thinking that Exodus's only mutant power is to tell creepy campfire stories.
I think it’s because the Krakoa government shoots itself in the foot when it comes to their Omega mutants. They’re too afraid to use them because that would mean they are being put in dangerous situations that could get them killed, captured , brainwashed, experimented on, etc.
@@robb1914 I'm sorry but the evidence suggests otherwise. Krakoa sent Jean Grey, their foremost Omega level telepath, on the original mission to Orchis station. They also had her and her Kid Omega, their other Omega level telepath, join X-Force, the team that probably gets into the most dangerous situations most often. Jean's already been killed at least twice and Kid Omega's been both killed multiple times as well as experimented on; Krakoa's enemies even produced an evil clone of him. On top of pointlessly risking her life on Arakki duels, Storm hasn't been Regent of Arakko for 3 months and she's already singlehandedly fending off assassination attempts. Not to mention the time she almost died just from being part of the diversion to insert the Children of the Vault infiltration team. Besides the Five and their essential role in resurrections, if Krakoa hasn't shown the slightest fear of using those Omegas on numerous occasions why would they fear using the others? Especially since the nation itself, with its unbelievably abysmal security protocols, isn't much safer? From a logical perspective, it just doesn't make any sense.
@@damianpatterson9363 Jean was the only omega on a team that was suppose to destroy the greatest threat to mutant kind and her only job was to be a communication thread between the team and Krakoa. Seems like a huge waste of her abilities as she was never intended to interact with the enemy forces and the team overall had so little destructive force behind it. Like they brought Husk and Archangel to a space mission, they clearly didn’t want to use the omega-levels like Vulcan, Magneto, and Iceman for some specific reason. Kid Omega dying is a meta-joke more then anything else, as he’s a controversial character that many people find annoying and he hasn’t really died since he got his necessary character growth. Storm also most likely choose to become Regent of her own free will and was the most practical choice as she is an ex-queen, a part of the Krakoan governing body and is an Omega-level mutant (Which Arakko requires to be in their government). Also, the arakki duels aren’t pointless. They are a part of Arakko’s culture and as an outsider Storm is being respectful to a culture she isn’t a part of. Most Omega-level mutants that have been put in danger or are in dangerous situations have volunteered themselves or were chosen because of their destructive power
@@robb1914 You're exactly right that Jean's role in the assault on Orchis was an enormous waste of her abilities. The question is why was that? And why didn't they send an entire army instead of a small assault team with as you correctly pointed out, such "little destructive force"? "Some specific reason" isn't an actual valid reason. Think about it: what possible reason could they have had not to want to use the omegas on a mission that could decide the fate of their entire species when they had no problems using them on far less important missions? I have no problem with Storm being regent as she is the logical choice and that she needs to respect Arakki culture, but neither of those explains why doesn't Storm have her own version of the Imperial Guard to protect her from unnecessary dangers like dealing with intergalactic assassination attempts. What makes you think most of the other omegas who haven't been used on missions wouldn't volunteer, especially if they were told the mission could decide not only their own fate but that of everyone they know and love? If Vulcan and Iceman had no problems volunteering to go to Otherworld to battle Amenth, knowing they were risking a death they couldn't be resurrected from, why wouldn't they do the same for the mission against Orhis? Why would Magneto volunteer for a relatively unimportant Orchis mission to rescue some mutant children but not volunteer for the most important mission of his species? Why would Exodus volunteer for the Empyre mission on Genosha but not Orchis? Why would Jamie Braddock risk a death he couldn't be resurrected from to sit on a throne in Otherworld that serves no purpose either to himself or to Krakoa? You can wrack your brains for a million years trying to come up with "some specific reason but you won't find one because there isn't any within the context of the story. But there is one outside of it and it;'s disgustingly simple: Jonathan Hickman and the X-office are poor writers who don't know how to construct problems their characters can't solve with ease. So they deliberately leave them out of most stories or give them unimportant roles. Take the Orchis mission for example: all that was needed for the mission to succeed was for four levers to be pulled to unlock the Mother Mold and send it into the sun. Jean could've done that all by herself if Nightcrawler teleported her to a location equally distant from the levers, but if she did that how would Hickman have had a chance to show off mutant resurrection? So instead they go with an unnecessarily complicated plan that makes the mission more dramatic and ensures all the X-Men die on something that would probably be ranked as a 5 on a scale of 1-10 in terms of mission difficulty. The same is true for virtually every X-mission and executive decision during the Dawn of X/Reign of X era. There's no indecipherable genius reason behind it, just poor writing and a lack of understanding that they've created an era of Super Nation stories, not super hero stories.
So - about the unused plot points (ie Colossus) - maybe it's there for future writers to utilize. About Moira X - at first I was disappointed that she still wants to use the cure, and didn't have a bigger, broader plans (like joining the machines, fighting them, something else). But if you think about it. She thinks mutants always lose but it's just 9 lives. However that's thousands of years of Losing. It's like being a Lions fan. Maybe she sees no other way than not existing. However we know due to what Omega Sentinel says, there are ways that Mutants win. Also the life eleven is an ace up the sleeve - for the writers to use to reset the universe when they're done with it.
Gotta say, I don’t get Moira’s plan. How would that even work out in the long run? They’d still be at war with the machines at that point and would only ensure their loss to them
i wanna know the original name for this series that jordan d. white teased in xmen mondays will be the name of another upcoming event and also doug was sooo dope this issue i now have new respect for him. do you guys think he has plans for krakoa?
Her primer is neither remotely true nor logical. If it were then Xavier would've never been able to discover the weaknesses of the people he's defeated with his telepathy. Just go read Avengers/X-Men: Bloodties if you disagree.
@@damianpatterson9363 I don't think what Emma said is to be taken as literal as stated. I think she was speaking more on how they specialize, for example when Xavier reads a mind he innately is privy to their strengths which makes sense. Given the work Xavier does with mutants, his dream, and how Xavier fundamentally views people. Whereas Emma has lived a different lifestyle, and has a different outlook. Her telepathy manifests by searching for things the minds seeks to hide, innately. Its just different approaches not to say Xavier couldn't find weaknesses or Emma strengths but they would have to be actively looking for the opposite. Unfortunately, I see most fans taking this as Emma's telepathy is better than Xavier's by I don't think that was Hickman's point. Xavier is more trusting so he sees the best in people, Emma is less trusting and seeks the worst, however that doesn't mean their both aren't capable of the opposite.
@@darthonyx2382 I wouldn't say Hickman is suggesting Emma's telepathy is better than Xavier's; what he's doing (as usual) is creating a ridiculous, out-of-character explanation for how Xavier somehow missed discovering what Moira was hiding. Consider: Xavier is someone who's spent his free time creating the Xavier Protocols, methods of defeating and even killing each and every member of X-Men in the event that they ever become a danger to the world. These are people he loves more than his own child. Does that sound like someone who would be so trusting he would somehow not think to look for any possible hidden agendas in Moira's mind? Especially after he discovered she's been lying to him his entire life? Not to mention the fact that, in contrast to Emma, Xavier's had multiple occasions to read Moira's memories to look for anything he might've missed the previous times. Based on Xavier's past history of breaking his own deeply-held ethics if he felt it was absolutely necessary, in a situation where he's looking for a way to ensure the survival not just of the X-Men but of his very species he'd go through her mind with a fine-toothed comb.
I think the below comments are right that it’s a distinction in perspective not powers. What is universally understood is that Emma is complete garbage.
@@vseegobi As I've already mentioned in a previous comment a distinction in perspective doesn't make sense when you consider the personal history of Charles Xavier. the lack of trust he's shown even of the people closest to him and the fact that he's reviewed Moira's memories several times whereas Emma's only done it once. Someone prudent enough to have created the Xavier Protocols would've also been prudent enough to go through Moira's memories with a fine-toothed comb for anything he might've missed or anything she might've been trying to hide, especially after he discovered that she'd been lying to him the entire time they'd known each other. Not mention the fate of his entire species hanging in the balance.
There are a lot of things that make absolutely no sense in regard of house and power of X. First, in at least two of her lives, she outlived destiny, by a lot. Why wouldn’t she turn on the humans side then ? When destiny was actually dead, and not a danger to her anymore. Then, why help build the Krakoan nation ? It makes no freaking sense to build a superpowerfull nation if you’re planning the extinction of the species living in it. Third, in her notes, she speaks of omega mutants, and of how she voluntarily produced one by coupling with the Mactaggert dude (who was a total prick if I remember correctly) and of how she planned for Xavier to produce an omega mutant too. How does that add up ? Omega level mutants are the one ressource assuring mutantkind prevailing !
@@rhustoxfordinner you know I can accept that but it just feels so vague and not in focus in such big story. But that also just begs the question of did Charles and magneto know why moria didn't want destiny to be revived and did they know moria's overall plan?! Their ignorance seems unreasonable or their going along with her plan is basically treason against krakoka.
you guys didn't see the depowering of moira x. really? I found it to be the most obvious and lazy solution. the call back to Forge's gun was cool. Wasn't crazy about Doug setting her free. I don't love open ended finales, they just feel so gutless and non committal. And finally, I was really surprised that they didn't connect with Death and Lives like you guys said. It really feels like Hickman writes in his own bubble and the rest of the x office follows around his plots. As for him coming back eventually, sorry but you guys are way too hopeful. Hickman has never really come back to a project. At most, he'll reference it in a newer one. The way he's been talking in interviews, it seems like he's fed up with the x office. Today was the end of a 30 month era. 2022 x line seems to be a continuation but without the same leadership. And that could be bad or amazing. Here's hoping they don't play it safe and stay between the lines.
I think you guys took the "eleventh" life too literally. Considering her 6th life doesn't count until a thousand years in the future, her "10th" life is actually the 9th. I'd say her 10th life is actually the 6th one remade.
