Episode 2 of the burn barrel saw some revisions and improvements. We try to run the turbo up as high as it will go but then we couldnt turn it off! Follow us on INSTAGRAM! / eviltwinep91
Episode 6 is now out, we put it on the roof of a car and drove around! Click the link here and check it out! ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-vC_aZTb70u0.html
Watching the guys run for cover reminded me of the Ford Dorset engines. I started my 40 years at Ford UK Product Development at Dunton in Environmental Test where we did cold start tests in four big cold rooms that would go down to -40° (-40° is the crossover point for fahrenheit and centigrade). Between tests the engines, which were on pallets so we could eight in each cold room, were run up for at least an hour to evaporate any fuel that had got into the oil while cranking. The oil was changed between every test as well. The Dorset engines could get so hot that they would start to run on oil vapour that was piped to the inlet manifold from the engine breather. With nothing to control engine speed they would run away and eventually explode! We had one brave lad who would run in and pull off the breather pipe, but most of us ran for cover. The runup room was lined with sound proofing and I can still see bits of crankcase embedded in the wall, and an almighty mess that we had to clean up. This was in the mid 70s so we didn't all have phones to record these events, and having a camera onsite was a sackable offence anyway.
These turbo-burns are fun to watch, and I'd love to see it taken to the next level of backyard engineering. For example, partially submerge the tank or weld on some tubes to the tank and pump water through. Use the heated water to rapidly heat a swimming pool. Or use the exhaust gasses to fill a hot air balloon. Or go more of a technical route and do some analysis on the exhaust gas composition. Or build a mechanical PID closed loop system using a BOV / wastegate, and throttle body to get the system to maintain a steady boost that you can select. Or put it on wheels, add basic steering with an RC car servo and get the thing driving under its own power. Or add an oil cooler and pipe the intake to draw air through the cooler so that the system is able to maintain better oil temps Or... you know, the grand finale, add a 100 shot of Nitrous
Yeah technical side is fine and dandy, but its in the end just waste of everything. It needs practical use other than just burn wood witch is kinda pointless and specially annoying for North Europe, ones who didnt prep with enough firewood for this winter. I'm all good on that front but still bit annoyed on waste. Pool heater would be mint solution and solve some of the heat issues while at it, just need practical design that can be easily lifted in and out and maybe use some of the power to move water pump so water mixes? Hell i might even build one.
That’s wild. At 30psi it is like a supercharged forge. Get some EGT gauge happening for the turbo and inside the furnace. Be cool to know how hot the fire gets.
Throttle should be setup to dump boost to the open air, not restrict that going to burner. Instead of hammering the thing with excessive backpressure, you drop the overall system pressure feedback to the burn chamber. Make a Y or T junction somewhere on the main boost line from the turbo, and stick the throttle on a branch from that to vent. This is because you're not able to control fuel in this setup, so instead you control the fresh air being introduced. If it's done right, it should be able to do some pretty smooth throttle control. Also that compressed air being vented will be rather hot too, so direct it accordingly. Also if you're clever, design internal burners to use the pressurized boost air. The flame front will form from the fresh air coming into the atmosphere of heated flammable gas. If you ask somebody who works on stuff like coal fired powerplant burners, they may be able to explain it better. Still room to optimize it if you want to. Or just ignore random internet person suggestions, yet the advice is out there.
simply needs an blow off valve when closing the throttlebody... venting to athmosphere would overspool the turbo... no good idea! what i would also add, is an wastegate to control the pressure under full throttle and protecting the turbine from wood-debris is also a good idea.
You're talking about a wastegate. They are trying to regulate the boost with the throttle and turbo intake choke. But they need to bypass some exhaust pressure to keep the poost pressure down.
You need to control drive pressure. Venting the vessel's internal pressure before the turbo exhaust. Choking the air charge side will destroy the turbo oil seals rapidly. You can gain more control by fabing up a spring-loaded vent cap on the charge pipe. Set the spring tension to be fully open at 1.5bar. Allowing the charge air to vent to the atmosphere at a regulated pressure. This will stop it from running away. If you turned it into a boiler with steady water flow circulating through it, you'll have stable temps and a pile of steam that could used to warm a house, a pool/tub or power a steam turbine genset.
There is definitely power that can be tapped off the turbine/turbo blade and such a motor/gen would also service as the starter motor, then after the fact you take all the waste heat and make it useful like you said. This is a very flexible design and would be considered combined cycle generation. The other problem is these videos never provide any decent oil cooling for the turbo, you need a good heat exchanger and the airflow fan+pumps for it should be powered from its own generation with battery backup.
Now this is what I was looking for about 11 years ago, I had a wood furnace with an "electric supercharger" that regulated the input air to control heat output. Interesting thing, but I'm more of a turbo guy, but nobody had done that kind of swap yet. Good job guys, Turbo wood stove is a win in my book lol
Feed some fresh air directly from the compressor to the exhaust turbine to cool things down, and it should survive a bit longer. (That's how they do it in jet engines.)
@@MattBerrymotorsport The hot side is probably at a higher pressure than the charge side. You could put a wastegate on the charge pipe feeding into the exhaust pipe after the turbo which will pretty much be an after burner.
@sourand jaded physics says increase in temp = increase in pressure, anything inside that tank is pressurized hence 30psi.. and it boost pressure from the exducer of the Compressor to the inducer of the inducer of the turbine.. by-passing the combustion chamber and directing pressurized air from the compressor to the exhaust pipe will be like an afterburner... Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution 4G63 motors use this same theology for Antilag.
@@ryanjones9986 itd seem by intuition that the hot side runs at higher pressure than the cold side but as stated above they both run at the same pressure, every jet engine uses MOST of the air that comes out of the compressor to cool critical components like turbine blades and combustion liner and prevent those parts from melting/ burning away
That tiny bit of extra air making an extra 25+psi of boost is a great example of how turbos cars drive too, once you get the turbo rolling you can be giving very little throttle and still make a lot of power.
probably run hotter, harder, and longer. people have gotten internal combustion engines to run on coal dust, so I'd imagine it has plenty of energy to spool that turbo real good!
@@TS34675 you could definitely run a piston engine on coal gas with a modified carb, but I am talking about coal powder, way harder and all the examples I’ve seen video of ran awful but they did run.
Skip the coal and go injected butane or LPG - then the incoming fuel can be used to cool the housings, or, flash the fuel up to a gas and feed through a mixer for a really lean and hot burn, then just figure out what the heat can be used for - forge, power generator, steam train,... endless posibilities.
I love seeing these builds, and have watched videos from Bobby McBoost, some guys out of portland, a few others. The one common thing I see is the boost becomes uncontrolled and the turbo blows up every time. It doesn't seem like limiting the intake air works. You need to limit the fuel. I'd like to see a build using wood pellets (Pellet stove) as the fuel source. By adjusting the speed of the feed auger you can increase or decrease the fuel intake rate.
Grab an axial power turbine from a Detroit diesel dd15 engine and add it after the turbo. You could rig up an alternator and now you’ve got yourself a generator powered by literally anything that will burn 👍 Of course you could use the gear from the power turbine to power a myriad of other things, but electrical power seemed the most desirable. Now to figure out an easier way to start it 👍 I also liked the idea that several others mentioned of using a wastegate to help keep the impeller cooler. If you added an EGT gauge you’d be able to dial it in for maximum sustainable power output, which again would allow you to use it as a generator. Another good idea may be trying to add a screen coming up to the turbo to help keep chunks of wood going into the turbine. Cool project 👍 keep it up
One thing that seems obvious to me, but could also be extremely difficult to implement, is running the turbo cooling and oiling directly off of the turbo. The faster the turbo spins, the more cooling and oiling it will be given.
thats my dream project........put one of those DD15 turbo compounds behind a largish car engine, see how much power it makes. In WW2, they had a 1500hp V12 Allison engine, that was getting an additional 1000hp from its turbo compound.
@@MrMartinSchou as it speeds up it’s doing more work and therefore making more heat, and also getting more heat from the fire inside so that actually might work out. But if you had it making 12v power anyways from an alternator you could basically use an electric fan and radiator with a regular automotive thermostat to regulate cooling. I still think EGTs would be an issue long before oil & water temps would be an issue with a decent electric fan setup because this is essentially a jet engine that uses wood as fuel. That’s why I still think a blow off valve to bypass air for cooling/throttling would do wonders. That’s exactly how people smarter than me build turbines
You need a better way to control it. A waste gate or dump valve something anything more then the throttle which was a decent idea but it unexpectedly failing like that didn't help. Was still funny though and great to see in day light. The only other thing you might consider getting is an oil cooler you almost had another type of fire there lol
@@MattBerrymotorsport would try wastegate on the air charge first, and dump into the post turbine piping, could help cool the exit air, and add more oxygen for the burn.
while I have no idea what EGTs are I bet it would be hot enough to melt basically anything. Especially with how these turbos are melting themselves as is.
@@Noman1000 as far as I know a wood fire can't get hot enough to really melt steel, but the steel will glow white hot and a fine mesh will get so soft that a piece of wood at high speed will probably fly straight through...
@@Henning_S. probably not hot enough to melt it but probably get it pretty soft. I think forced air kilns can get over 2000F on wood, this is probably similar if you can run it long and hard enough
@@Patrick-857 the theoretical max temperature of charcoal is 1300°C, steel melts around 1500°C... But you can melt cast iron with charcoal, it needs just 1100°C, and steel can get converted to cast iron if it is in a charcoal fire for several hours without oxygen. So in theory you could put a steel object in a charcoal fire and melt it, it just isn't steel anymore at the time it starts melting...
I wonder if splitting the feed from the compressor into two streams would help. Have a small stream flow through the wood, stoking it. Then have the majority of the feed air flow just after the wood holding section in an attempt to completely incinerate the flying embers in order to prevent them reaching the turbine.
I'd put a T on the boost side and have the throttle body act as a pressure relief instead of trying to block the boost. I think you will get better control over it by venting excess boost/air out of the system.
Throttling the compressor outlet without blow off valve puts it in surge and destroys bearings. I like the bypass air idea, compressor inlet emergency throttle, particle screen before turbine inlet, and waste gate. You should probably have some fail safe tank pressure relief before the tank pressure limit.
@@joashparker8271 tank limit will be affected by the heat but most compressor tanks are rated for 8-10bar (120-145PSI) so even in this case the tank should manage
Hi Guys , you're getting there, your P2 pressure is dependant on the TIT temperature going into the turbine stage , with our homemade DIY gas turbines using turbochargers we only need ~350-400 deg C for idling at 7 psi P2 , but ~550 C for higher powers , you need to be able to lower the temperature going into the turbine , the TIT , to prevent overspeed , so put your bypass/shutoff valve on a tee piece and feed the outflow from it to the duct going into the turbine scroll , once you hit your desired P2 slowly open the bypass to maintain it , the mix of hot gases and "cold" air will produce the require TIT , you will then be able to add a jet nozzle onto the turbine exhaust to produce thrust/noise, or add an afterburner for even more thrust and noise
You need a high pressure relief valve on the compressor side with a water injection tank pressurized by the compressor and regulated by the size of the water injection nozzle. This setup will help control and stabilize the operation. You might also need a larger turbocharger unit.
Build a fresh air cut off like the manual plate your using with a pull cable and spring to return to off. And yes bigger gauge. Your almost there!!!!!!
definitely earned a subscriber. once you guys get the control portion of it dialed you should experiment with different fuels, maybe dump some oil in there... lol
@@MattBerrymotorsport You need some sort of cage inside to keep large pieces of wood from entering the turbo, probably something made of expanded steel.... And maybe move the oil can over toward the back end, so the intake turbo can suck in the fumes from the oil as a secondary fuel source(?)..... as for the string operated "throttle", it is really not doing anything with its restricted movement, maybe find one that's larger, that can actually restrict the flow, instead of just being there for its good looks..... And Temperature Gauges, lots of them, in key places..... Also, you might increase the height of the Exhaust tube from the tank, so it accommodates a "T" Valve, as a Dump gate, in order to have better control on the exhaust side also.....
This is actually such a cool idea. It would me amazing to see this thing actually do some kind of work. It makes me think of either a ram jet or a turbo prop airplane in the way it functions. Except that it runs on wood! Very cool
Just in case someone hasn't already said this - Keep a water hose handy, if it runs away turn the hose on and blast the turbo inlet. I imagine it will hurt some things, but it might be better than a complete meltdown.
That could be hazardous, the water will enter and flash over to steam which in itself could lead to a pressure spike before overcoming the combustion process, probably need more water flow then a standard home garden hose too with how much air is flowing right there. I'd also be concerned about thermal shock, but I've never tried running the numbers. A fire extinguisher or engine bay extinguisher routed to the intake with a standard remote valve is probably safer.
As more than a few have said, need to have most of the air bypassing the burn chamber and mixing with the burn chamber exhaust to limit the EGT. Put a Y pipe and 2 throttles on the compressor discharge, 1 throttle to the burn chamber the other to the bypass duct. Mechanically link them to be opposite each other, when one is open the other is shut. Like so your control rope can control the burn rate while also keeping the exhaust gas temp down. And having both throttles on the cold side will prevent that sudden failure, what got you was the hot gases damaging or jamming it. Also consider a much longer rope, or better some form of radio control that can shut this thing off from across the field. Its all fun and games till someone gets hurt. Even better if you can put a guillotine gate on the intake, run from a separate remote as a failsafe.
If that tank is getting hot to near or to red heat it will not take high pressure and might explode sending hot metal and burning wood everywhere . Might want to get some temperatures on different places on the tank, as you can see red hot metal well in the sun light . Steam boilers explode when the water gets to low and the crown sheet of the firebox goes dry and then gets red hot from the fire and the pressure blows the crown sheet in to the fire box and then all the hot water that lost some pressure turns to steam instantly and then everything explodes , the engineer and fireman almost never live . Water to steam isa 1800 to 1 ratio . Be careful and care on . I think you are on to something here , could have many uses with added ideas and controls . I see it burns with no smoke . You have to keep the wood from get to the turbo, maybe a screen or baffles or cyclone separater. Gave me a few ideas on how to clean burn wood for heat and power . Good luck with your experiment .
@@combomaster99 You seem to not understand what an EGR is. Exhaust Gas Recirculation, a metered amount of exhaust back into the intake to lower the combustion temperatures. What I described was a high pressure bypass, which Jet engines use. Most of the airflow bypasses the combustion chamber, but is mixed with the hot exhaust right before the power turbine. Like so the turbine temperatures are limited to prevent damage, and additional throttling is possible by changing the amount of bypassing. At maximum bypass the turbine should slow down.
I would add a tube to the compressor inlet and put a throttle body on that tube. This is your emergency shut off. Then add a wastegate to the compressor outlet where your current throttle is. Make sure the wastegate is manual and will purge at a set PSI. I'd set the psi to 20. This is your automatic throttle. Then add some sort of baffles / screen to the turbine inlet to breakup or catch wood particles before they go through the turbo. Then get a better pump so make sure there's enough flow and add a bunch more oil since coolers are expensive finicky. It won't run continuously, but it'll keep the oil from burning.
Would be cool to use diesel as the fuel source instead of wood. Certainly would save the turbo from being destroyed by debris. Also, perhaps a better coolant system is needed, that oil was about to flash for sure. Can't wait to see phase 3!
This is awesome! Any chance you could mount an actual wastegate before the turbo on the hot side? or would it just melt? hmmm wish I could play with fire too!
Episode 5 is out now and is by far the best one yet. Click the link here!! (Electronic wastegate and we build a flamethrower) ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-ujvFu_6DVG0.html&si=EnSIkaIECMiOmarE
lose the throttle body and just put lifter valve springs on the plate the poundage can be set with the springs to blow off to keep it from turbo Kreep torque the springs down at the blow-off timing you want you can even put in a sight glass wood will burn purple, that's so cool or you could put a wastegate in line to do the same thing might even be a little safer. you can set it to run at any speed you want that way. it won't run away on you. keeps it from being a b*mb instead of a back-yard toy. landscape anchors wouldn't hurt.
You do realise that if you were to blow the escaping gases from the turbo and push them through a Turbine Generator you would be creating FREE ENERGY.. Well except whatever the cost of the fuel in the burn barrel is.
It seems like this experiment is vastly scalable... I would like to see you guys experiment with some sort of high-octane liquid fuel being injected...
The most unintentionally funny thing about this video is the reappearance of the drill as the motor for the oil pump at the end. The very same drill that so effortlessly made the hole for the boost gage earlier in the video.
put a plate in it with a bunch of 2.5x25.4mm slots in it, to stop the large wood chunks. put a propane line in the intake pipe, wrap a bunch of copper/steel pipe around it, get 20 foot of catalytic converters copper/steel pipe wound around those to and about a foot think of insulation with 3mm aluminum sheet cover... how much water can it boil up to 400psi off one BBQ tank? get about 1200ft of one inch tubing to run water thru... put an electric motor clutch on the turbo intake. burry the water tank in a 40 ton cement block... 400000 watt compact space heater 26000sqft at 8*C with it being -78*C outside... how long does one tank last?
I'd say get a boost limiter (and obviously a new turbo) set the boost and check the boost & RPM ratings of the turbo. Those things might be able to go a LOT harder than you think. Also you might wanna rig up an oil cooler with a much higher flow oil pump. Something like Superfastmatt has on his motorcycle powered car. You practically made what the aviation industry calls a "start cart" except way too cheap lol. But if it's safe, starting up a big jet engine on nothing but cheap firewood would be hella cool but nobody is insane enough for that lol
Didn't spit the impeller Which is pretty remarkable , loved the guy , we need a bigger boost gauge lol no you need another turbo lol. Really enjoyed you all running away flinching in the background.
