Installing a Flip Kit & C-Notch / Leaf Spring Axle Flip 

He was a great teacher!

Thanks Joseph, good luck with your project!

BROTHERS Truck Parts I have a quick question. I just did a flip kit and it dropped it nicely but my Axel is up against the bump stops and has no give at all. But i don't care what I'm worried about is, will any of this effect my drive train?? My truck is a 4x4

Won't affect your drive train other than a possible slightly out of adjustment pinion angle, but your ride quality is going to be terrible. you should consider at least cutting the bump stops in half to give yourself a little travel back.

BROTHERS Truck Parts okay I will do just got hat. Thank you for everything you guys do! This is one of my favorite channels!

BROTHERS Truck Parts so I did the flip kit...its perfect with no issues at all. Came out beautiful on my rat rod.

Gracias, apreciamos tus comentarios!

*_Some trucks have the axle on top of the leaf, actually, most do._* All full-size trucks have the axle under the leafs, and 83-11 Ford Rangers did. The only trucks to have the axle-over design from the factory were mini trucks (except Ranger) - S-10, Sonoma, Hardbody, Might Max, Datsuns, Couriers, LUVs, Mazda B-series (pre-94), and Isuzu Pups. *_So, when you get lowering blocks they have a hole for the pin on the differential to go in and stabilize the aluminum block._* What are you even talking about? Lowering blocks are placed between the leaf packs and the U-bolt plate. They have nothing to do with the differential. *_On this, he DID NOT flip the differential upside down. YOU CANNOT do that._* I've been lowering trucks for 20 years. No drop kit has ever required the DIFF be flipped upside down! That's patently absurd. How TF is that going to work?! The ring/pinion direction of travel is going to be BACKWARDS. *_By flip, he means, he put the springs under the differential axles and FLIPPED the u-bolt carriers._* I think most everyone watching this knows that, but for clarification, I usually call these kits "axle relocator kits," because that's what they ACTUALLY do - they _relocate_ the axle above the leaf packs. The only thing that gets "flipped" if the U-bolt assembly.

You probably have a driveshaft angle problem, they tend to change when the truck gets lowered. If the proper angle isn't built in to the spring kit you'll end up with a bind and need to install wedges.

No welding for this C-Notch. As far as compatibility with your "older" dually, call our Customer Service and give them some additional details and I'm sure they'll be able to figure that out 800-977-2767. Thanks!

If we can find a factory dual tank truck to do a video on we will definitely do that! Thanks for the suggestion.

Ok great thanks a lot you guys keep up the great videos very informative

contact PerformanceOnline.com and see what they have to offer.

You definitely compromise the frames integrity by cutting it, but that's why you need to add the brace in after making the Notch. Our brace, like most, is designed to add strength back to the frame after making the cut so it regains it's strength.

We did not cut the crossmember. Our shackles are available in different drops, we believe we used a 2" shackle on this project.

We don't have one, but we've seen a few good ones on RU-vid.

Not familiar with the 2007 frame, but we assume it would be at least similar to this style.

Lots of people are doing LS conversions these days. It will require some changes to the engine and trans mounts as well as changes to the wiring for the '97 engines ECU, but it definitely can be done.

Standard air chisel we purchased at one of the home improvement stores (Home Depot, Lowes). They cost around $35 and it's excellent money spent if you're planning to do a job like this.

You don't need to change the cross-member. But you might have to re-adjust the pinion angle.

In order to do the flip, you'll need the kit for the axle saddles at the very least. The saddles that come with our kit are specifically designed for flipping the axle and have offset stops on them so they don't just arbitrarily cradle the axle. This is important for proper drive-train alignment. Check them out on our website www.brotherstrucks.com/ and call our customer service department if you have any other questions. Thanks!

This notch was a bolt-in type, so we did not weld it. However, there are many different notches out there that do need to be welded.

@@BROTHERSTruckPartsTV ok just wondering because i ordered a notch and it says bolton/weld so i didn't know weather to do both or one or the other. Thanks guys!

Yes absolutely, flipping the axle will lower the truck, A LOT, then you could use blocks to lower it more and adjust height. If you are able to use blocks to lower your truck now, then it must already have the axle ON TOP of the leaf spring pack (flipped). Otherwise, adding blocks will only raise the truck more. If you still need some clarity on this, please call our customer service dept at 800-977-2767. Thanks!

The wheels are 18x8 in front and 18x9 in the rear.

You could do that for sure, it just takes a little more ingenuity!

@@BROTHERSTruckPartsTV So I did it. It wasn't too difficult. Worst part is the inside edge of the frame rails aren't straight so I had to square those up to get the notch to fit. Well worth the extra effort.

@@fortyseven1832 Very cool! Thanks for the update!

We're not familiar with the Ram kits, but you would probably have to weld new mounts on the rear end housing for the springs.

Not 100% sure. It's going to depend on how much clearance you have from the axle to the frame AFTER you complete the drop. Our first guess would be no because most of the newer body styles have a lot of room above the axle.

BROTHERS Truck Parts thanks for getting back to me i really appreciate it. After the drop whats the ideal clearance to not have to notch?

Yes, did 6" drop on my '98 & needed a notch

Yes. I needed the c-notch. Another thing I had to do was clearance/notch the cross support under the bed over the rear differential for additional clearance.

In this case the shackles actually were used to lower it even more than the flip.

Where is it flexing?

Is the clicking also associated with shaking or vibration? That's normally caused by a pinion angle problem. If it's just a noise, it's probably the driveshaft coming in contact with something. Check your clearances and make certain there is proper clearance for any moving parts.

You want to support the frame in front and behind the axle so that when you do the notch the frame does not droop. Also, it's best to only install one notch at a time so that you aren't cutting and temporarily weakening BOTH sides of the frame at the same time.

This one is designed to be bolted, so we just bolted it. You could weld it if you wanted, but n this case it wasn't necessary.

Technically you don't have to remove them, but you do have to at least take one end of them off.

Sorry Richard, we don't do anything with Dodge trucks.

All good BROTHERS Also "I'm fix'n to fix it!" A '66 C-10 that I've watched and pretty sure I've saved your videos for and they've educated me a s**t ton and haven't even started yet. Thank for getting back. Maybe talk at ya when I need the parts for the restoration.

We did a 4/6 drop on a '72 a few years ago without a C-Notch. It worked, but on large bumps and G-Outs the axle would hit the frame, for regular driving it was fine though. Depends on how annoying it becomes for you... you can always notch it later.

Yep, never hurts to radius the corners. Is it necessary, not really if you're using a reinforcement like our c-notch, but again, it doesn't hurt and it's good practice.

@@BROTHERSTruckPartsTV that's kind of what I figured. Thanks for responding.

just support the frame from somewhere that will keep it stable while you're doing the work.

We don't carry one, and at the moment none of the chassis guys we deal with does either. We've heard that Bell Tech potentially has something for that truck, but we've never seen or tested it. FWIW, you'll need to know the width of your leaf springs BEFORE you try and order one. Hope that helps, BROTHERS.

BROTHERS Truck Parts it's a 2.25 " leaf spring on the 71 c10

No need to weld a bracket. The kit comes with a pair of tall saddles that "seat" into the bottom side of the existing saddle on your axle. You simply set the new saddle in place, install the new u-bolts and tighten it all up. You can kinda see what we're describing at approx 4:05 in the video. You'll see a thick black mount under the axle sitting on the leaf spring and seating up into the old axle saddle. If you need more info, please do not hesitate to call us at 800-977-2767. Thank you!

Our kit comes with new U Bolts, but you could use the same ones if you had to.

We did not cut any cross-members on this truck when we installed the shackles. We have heard of that in the past as well, but it's possible that was a problem with a different type of shackle than the one we use/sell.

BROTHERS Truck Parts awesome thank you for the information

The kit is setup with a wedge in the new saddle that will get most people on target for the pinion. If you end up dropping even more then you will end up having to adjust the angle with shims

It is meant to lower you truck if you have a leaf spring setup. It places the rear end on top of the spring pack instead of on the bottom. Most of the time, a flip kit will give you about a 5" drop.

In the front you can do it but the lower control arm needs to be replaced because the ball joint for a 1/2 ton is not interchangeable. In the rear, you would probably be better off switching the axle for a 6 lug instead of trying to do an axle conversion. It can be done, but more than likely it would be less expensive to swap axles.

We are currently working on a C-Notch video.

We supported the rear of the frame with jacks, and as an extra precaution we only did one side at a time.

Why not attach leaf springs after you notched frame..?

you don't bring the diff down, you bring the nose down with axle shims. Most trucks will need to be fine tuned after and axle flip based on that particular trucks setup. Our truck had a 2 piece driveshaft, some have a solid 1 piece shaft, those things create differences that end up needing a bit of tuning to get right. We'll admit, 7° is a lot since our kit is made to come as close as possible to factory alignment once installed. Is it possible that the Saddles are in backwards?

@@BROTHERSTruckPartsTV Thats what I meant. Lmao. I didn't install it. I had a shop do it. I took some measurements and ordered 2 degree shims.

You'll get it dialed in with some shims on the axle and a couple under the trans mount. And when you're done it's going to sit just right!

Coil springs and drop spindles. Here's the video: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-Xd_QXlDk2d0.html

Maybe PerformanceOnline.com?

@@BROTHERSTruckPartsTV Thank you.

If the rear end is hitting the frame and that is what is making it hard over bumps, then YES, you need to add a c-notch. If it's not hitting the frame then your springs are probably too firm and changing the shocks most likely won't help. Also, if your shocks are laying down at a steep angle now after the drop that could be the problem, they need to be in a reasonably upright position.

@@BROTHERSTruckPartsTV so if the springs are to firm does that mean they are bad? And my shocks ARE at a side ways angle how can I put them at a upright position? Thanks alot for your time.

@@EduardoHernandez-ed4xx Start by repositioning the shocks upright, that will make a huge difference. You can probably google and find a shock re-locator kit for your truck.

@@BROTHERSTruckPartsTV ok, thank you I will do that.

@@EduardoHernandez-ed4xx Found this: frsport.com/belltech-6654-shock-extension-kit-99-06-gm-gmc

We did check both of those things. Yoke travel was not an issue, and the flip kit is designed to take the new driveline angle into account so it was close with only minor adjustment needed.

@@BROTHERSTruckPartsTV Thanks for the response. i hope to do the same flip kit on mine this summer.

It's a standard type air chisel. We have one here at the BROTHERS Tech Center that we picked up at Home Depot for about $35.

BROTHERS Truck Parts thanks for the reply. that thing cuts like butter, I had a walmart one and it sucked. But I'll be ordering a flip kit for my 65 thanks for the video ya'll are awesome

It was a total of 5" in front and almost 8"" in the rear.

Drop shocks front and rear. Factory shocks are too long. Go to our website and search "Lowered Shocks" www.brotherstrucks.com/. Thanks!

Part #RFK7387 = $139.99 - Kit can be found here: www.brotherstrucks.com/73-87-REAR-AXLE-FLIP-KIT/productinfo/RFK7387/

It' an air chisel. You can pick them up at your local hardware store for about $30-$40 bucks. You'll need an air compressor too!

The shock extensions/re-locators aren't in the kit because some people that don't go that low choose to leave them off. We leave them out of the kit so they are optional.

@@BROTHERSTruckPartsTV I just heard that the kit came with it. In this video so when I looked I didn't see it. Thanks for the reply

We're not familiar with the DJM notch, but our kit fits tight on the frame on each side

It's not likely you would need a C-Notch with a 4"/4" drop Tommy.

BROTHERS Truck Parts ok thanks for the feed back fellas.. Im new to these truck builds and just trying to get things right.... I Appreciate the help

You should.

We've never heard of anyone having a salvage title because of a C Notch. In CA, where we are, it would NOT make a salvage title. It's best to determine what your state law says regarding this question, but we assume it would not.

Ok thanx for the tip i was confused several ppl had told me that but il do my research on the laws here in texas,

No sir, just needed to re-adjust the pinion angle.

Yes, most shops would be capable of this modification. It is really a simple bolt-in for the most part, so the only thing they would need to complete the job is the proper tools.

BROTHERS Truck Parts ok thank you for the reply!! Truck looks very nice 👍

This video was done for TV and had serious time constraints. We are going to remake this video into two separate videos in the near future. One will cover the C-Notch and the other the Flip Kit. Subscribe and you'll be notified when they goo live.

Depends on what you want the outcome to be?

Yes. You may get some occasional Axle to frame contact when hitting bumps, but you can definitely do a flip without a notch.

Call the shop and let's go through the options - 800-977-2767, ask for Alex.

Makes the job 100x easier with the bed off

You could probably do it with the bed on, but we wouldn't recommend it. Even with the added time of removing the bed, you'll probably save time doing the job with it off, not to mention everything will be a LOT easier.

You don't have to C-Notch the frame, it just makes a lot of sense to do it while you have it apart. We've lowered trucks as much as 6" without a Notch, but you ALWAYS end up with a metal on metal bottoming out without the Notch.

We lowered it 5" in back and 3" in front.

@@BROTHERSTruckPartsTV Looks great! Did ya'll run a 30" tire on the back?

It's actually about 28.5". They are 285/45x18.

Depends on the year of your truck and which kit you're asking about. The Flip Kit and the C-Notch are two separate things. Visit our website at www.brotherstrucks.com/

Length of the driveshaft stays the same, however the angle will need to be re-adjusted to your specific ride height.

@@BROTHERSTruckPartsTV Thanks guys 😎👍

The completed project is shown during the wrap up segment starting at 5:13 in this video. We get it that there is no "pan" across side view, but you get the idea at least. We have multiple videos we used this truck in that do show more af how low the rear end is, links: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-jKdBz4VpqWs.html&list=PLLqc8GHyO_LH7Kvm8k6Do_aw2jTgiAxUA&index=28 ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-GkOtHmZzEGE.html&list=PLLqc8GHyO_LH7Kvm8k6Do_aw2jTgiAxUA&index=24

It definitely is if you lower it enough. Our '75 GMC in this video was dropped approximately 7" and that only left about 1.5" of clearance from the frame to the axle housing when we were done. The C-Notch gave us the clearance back so we didn't bang metal-on-metal when the axle smacked the frame over bumps..

Dave still makes 99% of our videos, he just wasn't available for this TV shoot.

The completed project is shown during the wrap up segment starting at 5:13 in this video. We get it that there is no "pan" across side view, but you get the idea. We have multiple videos we used this truck in that do show more of how low the rear end is, links: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-jKdBz4VpqWs.html&list=PLLqc8GHyO_LH7Kvm8k6Do_aw2jTgiAxUA&index=28 ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-GkOtHmZzEGE.html&list=PLLqc8GHyO_LH7Kvm8k6Do_aw2jTgiAxUA&index=24

Like a repair kit for the rust? That's not something that's available. If you're talking about the spring hangars, those are available in a 2" drop option.