Earthing a ground mount solar system at the combiner box is literally pointless, allowed by NEC, not required by NEC.....because it does nothing. Surge protection should be inside just before the inverter, a combiner box surge with a bus bar going to surge and main breaker isn't doing anything in a lightning situation. There are plenty of videos of folks who did the same with disastrous results, because your PV conductors between the ground mount and the building are antennas that pick up ground strikes in many cases miles away. If you really think a 6AWG solid copper conductor can dissipate lightning voltage (its DC btw) connected to a 25ohm copper coated ground rod, you missed math class. A surge arrestor that is sacrificial just before the string inverter will save your equipment, grounding the solar PV panels and mounts won't. Roof Mount require by NEC earthing, but ground mounts don't, and a separate earthing rod that close to a building while not being bonded to the main service ground add a ground loop problem, a differential in earth with respect to the bonds. To eliminate, the two rods, the building rod and the PV rod are required to be bonded to each other. to maintain the same reference to earth across the entire system.
I don't believe your grounding is up to code. You didn't mention if you used weeps or star washers to dig into the panel frames. The aluminum is anodized and you have to get past that coating in order to be code compliant. In some jurisdictions, you can't just connect to the ground hole. You have to use approved stainless steel connectors with weeps. 2nd, you can't have more than 1 rod other than at the main service disconnect unless they are less than 6' apart. If more than 6' you must bond all rods with at least a 6 gauge wire. Don't forget to separate ground and neutral at the subpanel when you install that.
Thx a lot sir for all your efforts. However, there's no more need for a combiner box when using certain hybrid inverters. Yes you read me right. The newest EG4 18K-PV, just made combiner boxes obsolete. Thx
The Combiner Box is still invaluable in spite of whatever hybrid inverter outstanding features. When the Combiner Box is as close to the PV on the roof, you can minimize all the parallel PV string cables, bringing only one single cable pair (+ and -) of larger ampacity to your hybrid controller PV input cutoff breaker. Of course the PV box must be IP65 or IP67 rated in such a case. Most 5KW hybrid inverters can handle 2 strings, so you can get by with a single 20A NM cable going to the inverter. Another advantage of the PV combiner box is that it gives you the ability to select whichever string you want to enable or disable for servicing perhaps to adjust your power input according the the seasonal solar production.
Also it allows for local surge/lightning/emp protection which for some locations is critical. Plus it allows a secondary shut down if you need to work on the inverter and don’t want to work with a few hundred dc volts of live wire or manually disconnect a bunch of mc4 connectors.
@@francoisguyot9770 we are just getting started with our off grid solar design/install. I have spoken with a couple different people who say to install the combiner box. I am looking into the EG4 MPPT 100a/48 charge controllers as an option to the Outback 150CL mounted on our prewired Conext SW4048 Inverter. So much has changed in the industry in 4 years - my head is still reeling from trying to keep my thoughts in order. All we need to begin with is power to our 50Amp RV and a few additional plugs to operate hand tools.Trying to figure out how to gain as much power from the strings of 390 and 550 watt panels (balance the panels or abandon the 390 watts) is a little daunting for my head.
@@rongray4118 You're right the technology is improving fast and efficiency is more affordable nowadays for the savvy shopper. But if you're gonna spend 400+ $ for a 5KW at 500VDC max Voc solar charger, you should consider buying a 5kW hybrid inverter instead. Most are 240VAC though. For the same price as the EG4100a/48, you get an integrated inverter and fast 240VAC grid charging transfer switch capability if needed. I got a 10.2kW PowMr hybrid inverter for $680 and a step down auto-transformer for 84$ from Vevor. I hacked it to output split-phase 120VA. for my whole house needs. It's working well but I have a large battery bank and a large PV array, unlike what an RV allows.
Great video Andrew, on your 6S2P array 150 volts max for DP, any risk of going beyond 150v due to colder wx in the winter months... i did copy your array for my recently acquired 10.8 kw D and thank you very much, 100% agree with size, weght, and cost savings. Others preach 3S2P for DP. Im somewhat concern of volt spike beyond 150v for DP. Any feedback will be much appreciated. .My array lives in s tx coast. In good health, thank you!
No risk because mine typically operates at 138 volts, however I do see significant spikes close to the 150 volt max on cold or odd cloud effect days. I don't recommend getting close to the max for these reasons.
I just had that transfer switch installed. I use my Oupes Mega 3 with it. I can’t have it plugged into wall outlet to charge at same time I have plugged into generator outlet even tho I have it on line position. It will blow breaker in main box.
Thanks Andrew great review. Still a little out of my realm but slowly catching on. I find this solar stuff very interesting. You explain things very well. See you at 7:00pm. 👍👍❤️❤️🇨🇦
Great Video - informative without time waste - you are easy to understand with good information - nice camera composition and focus - only minor complaint is you move a bit to much when holding camera
What you are doing is not correct. You will have to repeat the fuses again next to the inverter device only, and there is no need for expense because the deterrent in the box will not work in the near future due to being outside and being affected by humidity, heat and sun.
I would be CURIOUS if you have TESTED your Theory on your PV Panel GROUNDING ... I too, like you, assumed that my mounting hardware effectively grounded my PANELS to each OTHER & to the Tilting mechanism & ultimately to the EARTH ... it did NOT !!! to get a RELIABLE "ground" I had to use a 4" grinder to remove the anodizing layer from each panel where I installed a LUG ... then Installed a GROUND LUG with a 1/4" Stainless Steel Bolt, Flat Washer, & a split Lock Washer then fed a BARE COPPER 6 AWG Ground wire to each PANEL & ultimately to the EARTH ... an 8' long Copper Coated Steel rod driven into the earth below my combiner-box ( ECO-WORTHY brand ) then when I tested CONTINUITY from PANEL to PANEL = I got my desured GROUND ... COOP .
I have one question please help me i an getting so tired to solve it but no one help I have inverter and my lithium battery bms not communicate with my inverter so the company say use battery with inverter add value manually so if the bms not connected with inverter so it can harm my lithium battery or its safe to use
Thank you for sharing your knowledge with us I have a question with a Schneider Electric 100 amp 600 volt charge controller for wiring my 480 w q cell panels the way that I understand the document for the charge controller is it's making me think that it's factoring the cold Factor the 1.25 rating so if my VOC is 50.53 and I multiply that by 8 for 8 panels that's 40424* 1.25 cold Factor total 50530 but if the cold factor is already factored in then I should be able to go nine panels purse string two strings total so if I do the math VOC is 50.53 * 9 is 454.77 * 1.56 is 568.46 which means I'm over because the cap is 550 to 600 as a buffer will not bring in any power so for clarity I'm just asking for the Schneider Electric 100 amp 600 volt DC charge controller is it automatically factoring the cold temperature again thank you for sharing your knowledge I have subscribed and I'm learning Lots
I am not familiar with that controller or panels. In my experience the cold factor is not factored in on the type of equipment I use. I can tell you that from experience you will see spikes on cold and or odd cloudy days.
Good morning Andrew, I do have the same panel setup, with the combiner box, can I elect to delete Y bridge and plug the 6S2P array to the combiner box and yield the same voltage and amps...tyi!
Have you ever seen whole house arrestors? They do this exact same thing, you don't put them directly into the power in feed lines. The point of a surge arrestor is to direct excess or high current to ground. They do not cut off flow of power, that's what your breaker and or fuse is designed for.
Newbie to solar. Due to my lot I’m going to have to put up 3 maybe 4 arrays to get continuous solar power through the day. How can I switch from array to array through the day. It doesn’t have to be automatic. Manual switching is fine. Would I do this with a breaker box or is there a special piece of kit to do this?
Is there not one location that's clear of trees or buildings. If so I would highly suggest a tracking system that will follow the sun. You can get away with less panels and one location. It should cover the cost and aggravation of multiple arrays.
Nice video but what i don,t get as a solar beginner is how much current from the solar panels are ending up going through the 2 wires(positive/negative) to your inverter?
when using a combiner box? when you hook different strings coming from 2 different arays, does the box put both arrays in series or parell. i have 2 arrays both at 140v and both are 9.5 amps. does combiner box give you 280v @ 9.5 amps or 140v @ 19 amps . thanks
When you install solar equipment as you are doing, do you need permits and inspections? Some people feed solar power back into the grid for credit and I would think inspections would be very important for that. You are probably not going to do that.
Generally off grid systems don't need permits if they aren't roof mounted. But you are correct, the minute you touch the grid there are numerous plans, inspections, electrical tests, etc that are required for safety.
I'm very fortunate to live where I do. Anything AG related as my barns are classified require very little. My big barn for example required zero inspections, I even called the building department. We are zoned ag here and have ag equipment, so not everyone qualifies that way. If I were doing this in my home I'd definitely be getting full inspections, you'll need that for home insurance as well. That's another reason I am putting equipment in my barn. Also selling/tieing back to the grid for sure requires inspections and different equipment.
Nicely done. Although your combiner box is adequate, personally I would have used a blocking diode for each PV string to prevent the back flow of current upon one of the string being shaded., thereby minimizing the voltage drops as seen by the combiner output breaker. Also, I would prefer using some of those PV 10A DC breakers instead of the fuses. They are as cheap but much more convenient than the fuses, and you can keep the fuses as added protection. They DIN rail mounted and come in 1 to 4 poles that can be turned off all at once. The 2 pole actually can be used to disconnect both positive and negative of the PV string if so desired. You did a great job with grounding the PV and frame.
@@TKCL You're right in therms of trusting the fuse not to blow. Most of those Din rail fuse have indicators too, to let you know they blew. But in my case all my PV are used panels that are full of defects, but that I was able to rework the detached junction box, dead bypass diodes or broken solder tabs as well as sealing them from moisture. So, I no longer put my faith in fuse lasting long.... Bypassing diodes are included in the panel as you said, but blocking diodes are not. They are usually added to the combiner box, or plugged inline for the MC4 version, to prevent back flow of current from strings to string, as that string gets lower overall voltage. That's a bit different from what the function of the bypass diode is. Think of it as regular parallel batteries. Their voltage will equalize to an average by charging the weaker one. But if you put a blocking diode the higher voltage batteries cannot feedback that weak battery and will keep sending their maximum current to the charger/inverter. At night also, it adds additional protection from batteries banks back flow, since the battery will be at a higher voltage. This will definitely prevent them from discharging through the panels at night. Most charge controllers have these diodes built in already. but some times they fail and when they fail, as most semiconductors, they fail as shorts.
May I ask a question.. Does it depend on the type inverter, in which you can connect it to, whether parallel or series. Or does it depend on the size panel
Yes it does, all inverters have a maximum and minimum rating for voltage. They also have a maximum rating for amperage, this determines the way you wire your panels.
If the box and all components are not UL listed you will fail inspection. Unfortunately there are only a few DIN rail breakers, ground bars, surge protectors and fuse holders that are UL listed. Westinghouse and Eaton both have UL listed devices. For a box you also need a UL listed box.
That manual transfer switch may not be code since you don't have GFCI or AFCI breakers installed in it. Check your state's code to see if AFCI is required.
7:37 all went good up to this point. Why do you ground DC? If lightning strikes, there will be nothing left except the earth and your grounding rod. Unless of course this is for govt. compliance and regulation in order to get the CoC in the event of an insurance claim. Strange world we live in.
In my system, I have 470 volts dc at 14 amps coming from the panels. That is enough to kill you instantly. As OP stated, you don't want to be the pathway for a short circuit to ground, so you give the panels a direct path to ground. Electricity will always flow the path of least resistance. It won't flow thru meat and rubber shoe soles, if it has a direct path on a copper wire and ground rod to pick instead.
It'd be super rad if you put a MC4 connector wall plate on the wall instead of just having the wires come out. Then you could have a MC4 "jumper" cable to use in your testing. Awesome video!
If you are under 30A and using 10AWG cables you can use an Anderson powerpole panel mount from PowerWerx. Combine this with a extra duty outdoor enclosure and you have a UL listed and approved temporary connection. I do this with my combiner box (combiner box is inside) with 4 200w Elecaenta portable panels and a Pecron E1500LFP.
Great detailed video, would I need something like this for my 3 panel setup putting out about 1400W to my EF Delta Pro? Currently I just have them connected directly to the unit.
Thank you for the information! Are combiner boxes meant to have panels in series coming in? Most combiner boxes have 15 amp fuses which is fine for panels rated for 10 amp short circuit in series, but the moment you parallel them, it would only take 2 panels to overload the fuse in the combiner box. What am I missing here? Thank you
Think about it this way. Most boxes have 10-15 amp fuses per SET. But have 40-60 amp output breakers rated at very high voltages. You essentially run smaller sets of panels 10 or 15 amps to each MC4 connector and combine them in the box up to whatever amperage your inverter or charger can handle (and box). Some inverters/chargers are low and some can handle high amperages. You also get the benefit of a breaker and a surge protector. Not to mention an outside quick disconnect in the event of a failure or problem.
Curious why the combiner box when good quality charge controllers today have a VOC of 500-600V? This was suppose to get rid of combiner boxes for the most part. I can see it if there's a lot of distance between each array.
Fuses, surge protection and the fact that I don't want 30ft of wire to potentially receive damage. Don't forget this box supplies all the equipment I review. That might be a 600 watt power station or 6500 watt inverter.
Another great video thanks for the detailed explanation. I'm still wondering how the superbase V Zendure technically connects the 240v to a well pump. I'm hoping it doesn't require thier home panel. There is an out put 240v plug. My well pump has a switch like a light switch. I wonder if they make a adapter for a well pump so could plug it in. I know they make them for a furnace.
No reason it should require a home panel as long as it has a 240 plug like a l14-30. I found another company coming out with a 240 single unit and it has that standard generator plug.
In Puerto Rico, the grid is "Unstable" at best. Our solar system, which runs the entire house, is done with the 10 curcuit manual transfer switch. The inverter output goes thru a 50a generator cord and plugs into the outlet on the transfer switch box. This does a few things. 1. Entire home can be run on solar. 2. In the event the solar has an issue that needs to be worked on, the inverter can be unplugged from the transfer switch box, and a gas generator and be plugged in to it instead. 3. Any higher than normal loads, like running chop saw/table saw, the breaker on the transfer switch can be flipped to grid, and draw it power directly from the grid so the inverter doesnt get overloaded. Fantastic product, and many good reasons to use one instead of a sub panel for solar. And dont let the mess of wires on the transfer switch scare you. They are super easy, extremely safe, and the instructions on the Reliant models are very straightforward.
12 panels and I'm adding 12 more. I run reviews on my channel and test a lot of different equipment. Some require as low as 100 watts for max input and some are going to be up to 8000 watts. 100 watt panels were cheap, easily sourced and allow me the most flexibility on changing combinations for testing equipment.
Hello there, your video is quite interesting. And I have a question. How could someone use two combiner boxes for one solar array to supply power for a whole household?
You wouldn't need two of them for one array as long as you match up the amperage to the fuses and breakers in your box. You don't want to exceed the rating.
I had that box, complete waste in my opinion, did a complete tear down after failure and found that the wires were copper clad aluminum and the breakers weren't magnetic spark arrestor breakers, maybe i got a box made during the main electronics shortage but i got a bum deal and seller would not help me.
Andrew, Your cable enters from top from the combiners bus,I mean the output breaker that supply your shop battery bank,I am thinking it should be from bottom or is it same for circuit breaker (either top entry or bottom entry)
The bottom of the circuit breaker is what's feeding my shop, you must run through fuses and the surge protector before final exit through the breaker. Maybe I'm not understanding you correctly.
You said your loads were 10 amps per strand. 10% safety margin makes it 44 amps. we'll round up to 45. Voila - something that makes sense. A clean even 3x 15amp fuses@@TKCL
Your hung up on the breaker, you have to consider the fuses per strand are much lower. I clearly stated the big benefit of the box for me was the fuses/breakers, surge protection and having a means of disconnect outside of the building.
Have you thought about a single tracker that will tilt the frame up to catch more afternoon sun. You all ready have a moving frame so set up would be simple. vertical to horizontal .
This is aimed north to south, the tracker would have to spin 180 degrees to help me with the sun. I plan to add a few more cheap panels to the backside of the building for afternoon sun if I need it.
Awesome Andrew. Are you running solar power on the shop full time? And does either portable power stations automatically come on if power goes out or you need a separate system like you explain in your video?
They will only come on in 120 volt mode if you are referring to pass through. I am running the shop off and on off the grid. I'm almost where I need to be to make it full time.
Andrew you make solar sound fun and interesting..... I have always thought it was much more then that. Know I'm thinking about make a man shed just to see what I can do 🤔🤔🤔🤔
Is it necessary to have fuses, surge protection, AND breakers? Seems like if there was a surge, it would blow the fuses, and even if there weren't any fuses, it would trip the breakers. So either I'm missing something, or it's just multiple layers of redundancy, and I'm honestly curious which is the case.
Technically a breaker and fuse do similar duties. The purpose of multiple fuses is to protect each panel set from each other. Should one be damaged or have a short, you want it to blow a fuse and not impact the others that are wired into the combiner box.
It has so many other uses as well. If you look into a solar panel set up, or with a set up with an AIO setup/box (Mpp 2424lv for example), not only do you get the added protection that is properly needed and combined together for you, without the need to do all your own fuses, Breakers and disconnects, but that's built right into the combiner box as well and so much safer. Dually, with the breaker, it has that as a turn off switch for the panel basically, so if you have to disconnect your panels, replace your AIO, Ect. You can flip the break and change that out or rearrange your solar set up, without completely having to disassemble everything and put back together. Or in case of emergency or testing, or upgrading your aio, battery bank set up etc. So I learned these somethings and learning so much more, these are potentially so useful basically, like a must have!
Do you have room for a second solar array of the same size besides the first one without it sticking out beyond the edge of the shop? Looks like it will be a tight fit from the camera angles I’ve seen so far.
I have 4 strings of 6 Blue Sun Bifacial 460 W panels in series for a total wattage of 2760 W and 11 amps equaling approx. 254 Volts. Would you recommend the combiner box shown in this video or is it too much wattage and volts per fuse and breaker. Can I change out the fuses and breakers or should I get a bigger box - which would you recommend? Your videos are really on point - thanks!!!
If staying in series only, you'll need a box with larger fuses. Otherwise you could split your panels into two sets and bring two wires in and combine them in the box. This will change your amperage and voltage as a result. Otherwise find a box with 15 amp fuses.
@@TKCLI am installing the same number of the same panels. My two 6500 watt all in one inverters have two pv inputs each that are rated for 500 volts and 4000 watts so I do not need a combiner box. I will need four disconnects and SPDs. What would be the best way to do that.
You don't necessarily need the combiner, I like them for future additions, the fuses, breakers and surge protection. You could build your own box without the combiner portion, all though it would probably be more expensive to do so.
Andrew, love the channel. Just finished the house build. It was fun to watch. What do you think your increase in power would be if you built a rotating metal disk, that was motorized to track the sun during the day? It would be awesome and with your fab skills I know you could do it! Hi to Ruger!
No idea, it would definitely help. But since this is more for backup than true off grid, I think I'll get plenty when I complete the second array. Time will tell how far I take this.
Hello. It looks warm and nice in Florida, I want to say that I live in Sweden and I am selling and building solar cells here, I have been to Florida and love the place it is warm and nice there it would be wonderful to live there. I also want to give you a lot of praise because you have done a very neat and careful job of installing solar cells and all the cables that have been installed very carefully. I will follow you on youtube. have a good time in Florida mvh From Sweden
@TKCL Hello. Thanks for your reply 👍 Yes Sweden 🇸🇪 is a nice place. I like Florida I hope too comes back again som time I have been Miami and Ft Lauderdale 2001 I stayed there 3 months. And I like to say i keep following your build of solar energy system you working on
That's a pretty good price on the combiner box for what you get. Nice setup. I'm running 12 on my 900-watt input and 4 on the 500-watt input. Like you, I think I'm going to stick with the 100 watt panels on-ground mounts because they're cheap, light, and easy to replace.
Was watching your video and it appeared your ground wire in your combiner Box was wrapped. The wrong direction I could be wrong but it needs to wrap with the screw so as you tighten the screw it pulls the wire tight
HOWdy T-K-C-L, ... thanks for SHARING your installation ... Suggestion = when stuffing STRANDED WIRES into anything like a Combiner-Box or Circuit-Breaker Box = squeeze on a FERRULE 1st ... IMHO COOP the WiSeNhEiMeR from Richmond, INDIANA ...
Yes.. Best box I could find. I have two charge controllers and I need to get another box like this. I was using y adapters and fuses for awhile but I really like the cut off and the surge protector. I'm surprised it didn't cost twice what I paid for mine. I really like all the powmr line of stuff
This one is around $1k, 120 amp battery charger, grid tied and switching capabilities, 8000 watt solar mppt, 6500 watts inverter, single, split and 3 phase capable. Seems like a lot for the money. Time will tell.
@@TKCL really interested on the grid tie capabilities of it since it’s only a grand.. imo it needs to have capability to use external current sensors to be on the homes/loads main wires so that the inverter can only supply enough power to cover all of the homes loads and not backfeed into the grid. Yes offgrid inverters only supply the amount a load is using but an offgrid inverter has to then be sized to cover all surges and infrequent high power demands. Also the battery bank can be a lot smaller if the inverter is operating as a grid tie inverter due to allowing short duration power usage/surges to be covered by the grid.. then when the battery is low the grid simply takes up the slack with no transfer switches.. I’ve been covering all my homes power usage this way for 6 years (no electric bill family of 4) using cheapo ($250 X 2) 2000w grid tie inverters that utilize batteries and external CTs on my homes mains. That way my battery power isn’t dumped into the grid..
Let me clarify, this inverter does not send back to the grid (sell back capability), it pulls power from it in the event its needed. I can program it to use solar first, grid second or solar only. Or it can run without batteries and use just solar panels and grid second. It can also be programmed to charge the batteries via solar only, or a combo of grid and solar charging together. It has quite an extensive menu for programming as you desire.
@@TKCL I think it would be worth looking into. People that mine crypto are typically "DIY'rs". You could possibly tap into a whole new demographic before the next crypto bullrun.
@@TKCL I'm betting on it happening. Bitcoin is currently doing exactly what it was created for. Providing a hedge for investors during a banking/economical crisis.
They keep saying it's a hedge but it often follows the economy. Now you keep hearing the government talking about their own digital currency, which means they will kill bitcoin given the chance. Who knows 🤷
That's a nicer combiner box than the plastic Eco-Worthy's that I have, for about the same price. A lot of solar stuff on Amazon is getting pretty seriously discounted now, too, including panels and batteries. This is really the time to DIY solar(!). I wound going with 100W panels for my little back-porch-rail DIY system as well. They were just the easiest to work with and had the right dimensions for hanging off the rail without being too intrusive. I wound up with 15 of them by the end of the project, grouped in sets of 3. 3 in series per string, then 3 strings in parallel. In my case, there was some variable shading so I wound up with two combiner boxes going into two separate charge controllers. Seems to work pretty well I think. I even blew one of the fuses during installation. Being impatient, I had two strings energized and producing and accidentally shorted the wiring on the third string for a moment while installing it (I hadn't pulled the fuse for that string). So that fed the other two into it and the fuse did its job and blew instantly.
What does voltage on a string have to do with fusing, a breaker and surge protection? You need that no matter what inverter you have. Your focused solely on the combining portion. I want the protection aspect and ability to kill power outdoors (which is usually required by codes).
@@TKCL You don't need a fuse unless you are combining (parallel) more than two serial strings...which folks only needed to do on older systems or MPT inputs that can only take lower voltages. Simple DC disconnects plus something like Midnight Solar Surge protectors (very high quality). The fuses protect WIRE. The surge porectectors protect equipment. With properly sized wire, you don't need a fuse for a single serial run. So no. You don't need one for your array...if you're serious about it.
So nothing can ever happen to the wire? No shorts, a pinch or anything? I guess I don't need breakers in my house then. All these things serve a purpose for a what if scenario. Might not happen, but it could happen.
