Matt I just installed the spiral cutting head upgrade in my. 20” Woodtech. Thank you so much. Some of your tips and tricks were a big help especially using the long clamps to pull the head and bearing into the race. Thanks again. George Wells Lockeford. Ca
Great video Matt! I replace bearings almost ever day at my work, ( I work in maintenance at a snowboard manufacturer and bearings are always going out on machines) you are spot on about all the bearing info you included in this video! I think that info and how you presented it is priceless for someone that doesn’t know about sourcing bearings and how to size them. Thank you! I was listening to your video as I was driving back down from my local mountain from a beautiful spring day of snowboarding, and yes I didn’t comment till I was done driving, haha! Ps I see you have a few trolls on your channel too, I have a few loyal subscriber trolls that thumbs down every new video I post :)
Good video. We've got several of the same planers in a production shop, and we actually went back to straight knives. A) If you hit a bullet or embedded rock that nicks the knives, it's fast and easy to just slide one blade over a small offset distance - much faster than dealing with the inserts. B) If you pay for electricity as part of production expense, the straight knives are %18 to 24% cheaper over the year. The inserts are much less efficient in terms of power used, as shown in video. Electrical current consumed is profit down the drain, so lower amps draw to make the same cut helps keep expenses down. The key is using good jigs to mount the knives quickly - if you do it right you can swap out knives much faster than dealing with a pile of inserts. But that's what works in our shop (we've got a knife grinder too - that helps), and others might like inserts better. After testing both cutters, either cutter method will produce good results, and either way will probably still need finish sanding anyway - depending on end product.
The inserts are wayyy easier. Just grab your torx bit set, loosen, turn cutter, and tighten it. No jig or adjustment required. With straight knives, you gotta loosen 3 screws, use a jig to get it set just right and then tighten the 3 screws and hope the knives don’t move while tightening.
There's no down time in having the knives sharpened. Twenty decibels is a greater reduction in noise. Good job doing it yourself. Nothing goes according to plan. Thanks sharing. Saw April's sawmill video. Knock one sawmill over, and they revolk your tractor license. Love her sense of humor.
Hi Matt , love your videos! I installed the shelix cutterhead on my Dewalt 735. Good decision because the knives would get nicks in them just by planning wood with a hard knot. The shelix cutterhead solved that problem, however I was disappointed how every individual carbide made grooves in the wood. I came really close to buy a thickness sander to remove those grooves. I recently upgraded my planner. I bought the Hammer A3 41. The cutterhead is much different than the shelix. First, the carbides are tight against each other. "No gaps" Second, the carbides are flat across. The shelix carbides have a chamber. The finish is so amazing on my new Hammer planner that I don't have to buy a thickness sander anymore. Cheers!
I bought the G0453Z 15" planer with spiral cutterhead in 2013 and it worked so well I upgraded my 8" jointer the next year with a Byrd Shelix cutter head. Expensive, but two of the best decisions I have ever made tool wise. Quieter, smoother, they last forever and there is no infuriating adjustment of blades! I rotated the indexed carbide cutters on my jointer after 4 years and on my planer after 5 years. I could tell a little difference after the rotation but the main reason I did it was I wanted to use all 4 sides of the indexed cutters before I got too old to do woodworking anymore!
I have a spiral cutterhead on my 14" planer. I only purchased it because it came with that cutter. I will never go back to single blade. Being that this head has a helical head, way less tear-out. I use a lot of hard maple, love the finish. I have a very small cabinet shop mostly commercial millwork, so I don't run a lot of of hardwood... But I have yet to rotate my blades in the past 5 year. Great video Matt, I always enjoy your channel.
You also need to figure downtime. If you hit a nail with a blade you have to get it re sharpened, assuming you were lucky enough not to ruin it. With the Shelix you quickly rotate or replace the carbide. Definitely think they are the way to go if you have the financial capacity to make the jump.
I like that you showed the plug for the jointer in the shot as you flipped the cutters so that you wouldn’t get a bunch of haters saying you better unplug that while you do that or you’ll get sucked into that black hole...
The blades are an interrupted cut, so there is a gap of no load between each blade striking the wood. the spiral cutter is in the cut constantly so there is a continuous load in the motor hence, higher and draw. It is also taking a series if small cuts so quieter with smaller chips, easier to evacuate.
Thanks Matt for showing us "the real" work it takes to do something like this and being honest about the amount of fiddling amount, trial and error you did to make it happen. Others tend to "skip " that stuff and gloss over the difficulty. That makes us mere mortals feel bad when every little things I try to do take 10 times more effort than I expected.
Yep been there and done that! It’s kind of messy but not terribly hard, just takes a bit of time. It’s nice that all the different brands all share the same gear box design! Makes getting parts easy!
I built a spalted maple table for my daughter recently. A friend of mine offered to help, he acquired all his grandfathers woodworking tools. I wish I could have video taped it! My friend was a machinist by trade and I was a heavy equipment operator, it was like an Abbott and Costello show ! Anyway my daughter loves her table!
Matt, the reason for the motor working harder is simple. With a spiral head cutter it's constantly touching the work with at least one insert. With the knives, they were only in contact with the wood for a few degrees per revolution, leaving the rest of the time for the motor to recover. I have one of these in my planer and love it. It's a godsend when planing reclaimed lumber.
Matt thank you so much. I have a 15" General planer. A couple small differences in the gear box, but you walked me through it pperfectly. Had mine replaced in a couple of hours, a few issues with getting the gear box off the head, nothing a good steel mallet couldn't handle lol. Great job. Thanks again
Holy Shamoley! I have the 20" Shop Fox version of that planer, and I think I will learn to be happy with my straight blades! That task is not for the faint of heart.
Before I switched over to the hammer jointer/planer, I had a Shelix in my DW735. It made a world of difference in that planer, because the blades were single-use, and very prone to getting dinged by just hard wood (in which case you'd need to loose a knife and shift it over a little. Eventually you'd spin it around. I even tried the single-edge carbide ones and those were ok. The Shelix was wonder. Never did turn the inserts, but I later sold it to a local hackerspace. Oh, and it made the noisy 735 quieter. That thing was REALLY loud, though. So I know yours cost more than the planer body, but it's the business part of the thing, so worth the upgrade, IMO.
I enjoyed this Matt. I have always liked that you are not scared of your machines and have no problem cracking one open when it needs a repair or maintenance. Keep up the good work!
Bet it's half the decibel now. I upgraded to a new 20" Laguna. I think it's quieter than the tablesaw. Edit: just wait til you're surfacing some highly figured wood like Birdseye or strong curl. I find that is where spiral cutterheads really shine. Zero tear out compared to traditional cutterheads design.
I recently replaced my 13” straight blade planer with a 15” spiral blade model and like it so much I plan to replace the cutter head on my 8” jointer. I did have to replace the old 2 hp motor with a new one of the same rating. The original one burned out. I’m hoping the job is easier than what you went through as I don’t have your mechanical skills. I did hear from the salesman at Grizzly that I may need to upgrade the motor. He said even on similar cut depths the spiral head is more of a load on the motor. He couldn’t explain why. That last motor replacement was a 3 hour pain and a more powerful motor will be more costly so I’m hoping it’s not needed.
I did the Shelix upgrade to my planer and am fairly happy with the result. Cut quality is excellent and the noise level is lower. However, the issue of increased strain on the motor is real. Burning out belts is now a thing, as is much more frequent breaker trips. Overall, aftermarket upgrades of this sort are an edgy thing to do. If you are buying a machine, I recommend you plunk down the extra green to get the spiral head. Which also argues in favor of buying new over buying used and upgrading. At least, that's my take on this upgrade, having done it once.
Great tests to get some empirical data. When draining gearboxes, what I like to do is pull the fill plug first. This gives me proof that I'll be able to fill it. It sucks to drain a transmission then find out you have to fight the fill plug and maybe even end up destroying it. If you find out you will end up destroying the fill plug before draining it, you can stop and get new parts before disabling the car. Of course, the planner is a different situation, but habits help in the long run.
I own a RIGID planer. Being a casual woodworker I find it enough for my use. You, have a legitimate need for a 1st quality planer which I support. Looks like a good tool. But, they don't come cheep either. Here in Lewistown, Mt. I'd just put that outside here any time for 6 months. I'd get it cold enough.
This should have been a pretty boring video but as someone who is missing the mechanic gene, I get mesmerized by those who have such proficiency in comprehending things like this with no manual in their hand. Heck, even with a manual I struggle tuning my equipment. Interesting to watch your thoroughness and your ideas of what and how to measure and evaluate things. Nice work! Not sure I'd spend a grand on the upgrade when the primary upgrade is the sound level since I wear hearing protection but I do like those rotating cutters...
I am sure you will enjoy your spiral cutter head, especially when it comes to the finish it leaves. The reason for the shallow depth of cut is the chip breaker under each cutter, they hold the cutter at the correct angle, trying to take a deep of cut they bind up with wood. Or, at least that is what I found with mine.
Its a great upgrade, they work so much better. I have one in my 13 inch planer. The cut quality is much better on figured wood. And if you buy a larger planer in the future, you will probably get 75% of the cost of that cutter head back when you sell it. You turned your $1000 planer into a $1600 planer easy.
Big job! Joiners are easy, but planers are something else. Too late now, but wrapping the cutterhead in blue tape will help protect those brittle carbide inserts.
They're also fairly easy to sharpen if they're just dull and not nicked. Clean with ethanol and a couple of rubs on a fine diamond stone and that should sharpen each edge at least somewhat. You can do it while the inserts are installed if you don't mind slightly grinding down the top of the insert screw x). Mine are flush with the insert, I notice the Byrd ones are sunk below. Now you've to send the oid cutterhead off to Wandel for him to turn into a lawn-mower or somesuch.
Thanks for documenting and sharing the changeout. I'm disheartened to see that a Byrd Shelix head for an old US-built Powermatic 225, a 24" wide cast iron beast, is more than twice as expensive.
Matt, I have the same machine that I paid 500.00 for and thought of doing the swap to the spiral head but I think I'll keep the straight knives. I don't use it that often and it is a 3 hp not the 5 hp.. I"ll wear my ear muffs when I use it. One benefit is the chips are smaller that will help your dust collector. Thanks for doing the video
Hi Matt, I've been considering the same upgrades for jointer and thickness. They are expensive, but they are superior where you have curly grains and are much quieter in operation. They are also much quicker to get dead level compared to straight blades. Thanks for the video and comments.
Heh, I have a 1969 Lurem (French) combiné, and it had ballbearings from USSR, "80200 - and then some cyrillic" that were shot, but they were pretty much the same as 6200 :D, upgraded them to 2ZR just because I could :) The bearing system is actually pretty thought out, I can work my way around it nowadays after some reading up on it. So you are absolutely correct, it is easy to figure out.
I put a Shelix in my Dewalt planer a couple/few years ago, and I probably throw the breaker a little more often, but usually only if I'm approaching max width in a hard wood, and taking an aggressive cut. A smoother surface after the upgrade, and so much quieter. Someone else's comment comparing the straight blades with an impact driver is spot on. And the smaller shavings didn't clog up the impeller guard on my dust collector like the old shavings used to do (I've since added a cyclone separator, so that's no longer a factor).
Good job Matthew. Not something a lot of guys would tackle. F-bombs when disassembling/reassembling machinery?? Never happen. Did this kind of thing many times as a toolmaker. Milling machines, lathes, etc., sometimes need new internal parts made (old machines - no spare parts available). Stay safe.
Those spiral heads definitely draw more power. I upgraded my DeWalt with a shelix and almost immediately tripped the circuit taking too thick of a pass.
Hi Matt, Great Video. I have been considering one for my Powermatic 180. I didn't realize the significant increase in power consumption from the motor. Something to definitely consider in addition to the cost of the actual cutterhead. Also thanks so much for the description on bearing identification. That was awesome!
Greatly appreciate the amerage and decibel testing. Like you said, those are two things that are often stated, but rarely tested. I've wanted to upgrade my Parks planer with a shelix since I got it, but in my case I'd be spending more on the cutter head than I did the planer. That and given it's only a 12" planer, chances are good I'll want a wider one sometime not that far down the road... hmmm
Google Installing a cutterhead on a 4 post planer. All the instructions you need to do it without any trial or error are right there. I did the exact same thing 8 years ago and it went well. Would have never thought to make a video of it though. Some guys just do what they need to and go about their business and others need to make a video when they do something. Hey Matt where in Mn. do you live? I'm from North central Mn. I did enjoy your bandsaw mill build. Oh and by the way. Setting the knives on a grizzly 20 inch planer is a pain in the ass. Much much better with the shelix. I like to watch. Mostly like doing. Thanks for your effort.
Thank you! This was the first video that really answered the important questions (e.g. realpower draw impact, noise, real quality comparison). I have the same planer. I think you saved me from a needless upgrade. I'll save up for the 5hp equivalent new planer instead, and sell this straight cutter planer as is. Not huge cost difference.
On a decent planer you will be able to sell it for more used with a helical cutterhead in place. It doesn't make spending the green up front much easier - but at least you can know it's not like you're throwing the money away. Also - as you surmised, the real sweet-spot for these heads is figured grain.
Don Vanco I was going to say the same thing, when you go to upgrade you've increased the value of that machine by close to what you just put into it. You could definitely get 2K for that machine, at least here in NY.
Matt, dad #3 yet??? Thanks for this video. I wanted a helical cutter for a dewalt planer...its $400, the planer I got was $450. Ugh. It does use more power. However, if you learn to do more passes but not as deep each one, it works very well. I bet those new bearings made a difference as well. Best bet is if getting a planer, see if the option exists direct from the manufacturer rather than retrofitting. That way, the motor and design will reflect the helical cutters. (Grizzly has them...not sure of others...but Byrd offers the Shelix for many models. Thanks Matt!
I was sort of wondering if any of the decibel reduction was from new oil and a cleaning, but maybe I'm over estimating that. Also, I think you underestimate your mechanical inclination saying a lot of that is easy. You clearly have a knack for taking stuff apart and putting it back together successfully. I wouldn't send yourself short there. The bearing info was great. Thanks for that. Loved the video.
Hi Matt, I am glad that you had so much trouble getting your new cutter head in because I had ab out 2 days of torture getting mine in, and I am sorry but it made me feel a bit better that yours gave you some trouble as well. I have found that the new cutters work much better at cutting wood with curly grain without so much chip out. PS yours still went in a lot easier than mine, or at least it seemed as if it did.
thank you Matt. heads up ( i learned the hard way heat and cold on steel is good as most press fits are about .002 . however do NOT freeze cast IRON . it will crack not a good thing . ) yup steel is heavy . i had a boring bar i used 3 " dia. by 5 ' long with a 1" dia. lead foot long plug i used to have to mess with . i am 5'8" at that time 145-150 lbs lol .
Great video. Much appreciated as I'm thinking of doing a 15" Grizzly. Now it's time for you to get the puck out of the shop (yes you are close enough to the border) and go have a few cold ones. You earned it.
Awesome information and great tips like using the zip ties for the chain and sprockets together. I had to laugh I’m thinking Matt this is more complicated than a timing belt and water pump on your truck you could have done it and then you mentioned reality of DIY automotive I thought he’s so right I just always think everyone has a set of tools like mine (retired technician) but yeah not so much. Goes back to what your where saying about all your tools just appeared one day lmao 😂 and the skills to use them. Take Care
I know im asking randomly but does any of you know a method to log back into an instagram account..? I stupidly forgot my password. I would love any help you can offer me.
@Braydon Samson i really appreciate your reply. I got to the site thru google and Im waiting for the hacking stuff now. Seems to take a while so I will reply here later with my results.
Difficulty level - 4 out of 5 F-bombs! LOL... For me the reduction in noise was worth the extra money for the spirals. My wife can barely tell when I'm out thicknessing lumber now. With the straight blades, it sounded like I was skinning cats... I'm sure the neighbors are happier too.
Jacob J, I was guessing that Matt recorded this before the bomb had dropped. It was a sad day for me. It felt kind of like the loss of an old pal (or three). Geez, is there a Woodtalk widower’s support group?
I've almost pulled the trigger on a helical cutter head for my Dewalt planer, but there's always something else that I'd rather spend 400 bucks on. The straight knives "work" but carbide inserts sure would be nice to have. It's definitely a luxury, not a necessity.
Matt: Thanks for doing this video. I was recently offered a similar machine that needs a bearing job and I can say I feel more confident saying yes now that I've seen what to expect. Thanks again and keep u p the great work! Rob
I did this on a Powermatic 209 Planer. It's remarkable how similar these machines are. I would say that they are identical down to every single bolt. So anyone needing to do this for a PM 209, use this video as a guide.
Nick Stokes I'm going to be doing I to a powermatic model 15, which also looks very similar, just 5 inches narrower. I am definitely going to use this as a guide to my install.
I'm 64, not a woodworker, will never own one of these, to be honest not even so sure what they're for, but love taking things apart and putting em back together again. Still, I'm not quite sure why I watched this lol!
The one thing I would do is to take out the seal on one side of each bearing and put some really good synthetic grease in them. Bearing companies are bad for using super cheap grease, and using very little of it.
Love yer stuff...I have a grizzly jointer with a spiral head....terrific...and a woodmaster planer molder....amazing machine ......sure didn't look good at first.
In Aus. we call your plainer a thicknesses, you were talking about the cost of the single blade you do know you can buy a sharpener that attaches to your plainer that would be in the long run cheaper than the malty blade cutter
