Installing Border Pavers | DON'T Use Plastic Edging! 

🤣 Yes sir! Thanks for the support ✌

Glad it was helpful ✌🏻

Thank you , Glad you enjoyed it! ✌🏻

No problem, thank you!

Thank you, but I don’t agree on plastic edging lasting longer. It allows water to wash away your bedding sand / stone and in doing so, gets pushed up higher than the pavers. I haven’t seen any plastic edging installs that held up over time. Especially when you are using open grade base like I am, no way you can use it in these applications.✌🏻

I agree concrete will always crack without some type of mesh, rebar, etc. This here will crack, weeds spurt up in between guaranteed. Try patching a section later and see how that looks, Just like a patch. It wont match. Im not trying to knock your idea, but you know it will happen. Tell that to a customer and see their reaction.

@@TheChristianHardscaper plastic is better... there are just way too many issues with mortar or concrete, and it's really not meant for that type of application to begin with.... and this becomes especially true in areas where you want grass growing all the way up to the edge of your pavers, with concrete, it won't

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Thank you! ✌

Thank you very much, it is a great method and I was taught it by an older mason too... I appreciate the feedback, and I will try to keep a few secrets to myself.. 🤣✌

Thank you very much!

Thank you very much! I have learned a lot about base prep during my career because I found out early how important it was when a few projects failed due to poor preparation.... I will say Hi to J Lo for you! 🤣 ✌

Thanks, I'm glad you liked the video!

Glad to hear it, thanks for the feedback and the support!!

Glad to hear it, plenty of other videos like this one on my channel. Good luck with your project and God Bless you too ✌

Thanks!

Thank you, very fun trade to learn!

Thank you!

Thank you! The double border completely changes the look compared to a single / no border ✌

That's awesome! I'm glad they have been helpful and thank you for the feedback. Good luck with your business ✌

My pleasure, plenty more to come! Thanks for the gift, God Bless! ✌

No problem ✌

Thank you! ✌🏻

Thanks! ✌🏻

Thank you ✌

Thank you!

Thank you, I will never use plastic edging again. ✌

Thank you!

Very cool! Thanks for the comment and I’m glad you enjoyed it! I love how RU-vid lets you connect with people across the world. ✌🏻

Glad it was helpful, good luck with the repair!

Thanks! I love open grade base man, I’ll never switch back ✌🏻

Estanpado colors

Thank you!

You definitely can separate them more to blend it in but i usually just separate them with 1 paver. ✌

No problem, I never recommend the plastic edging. just to expensive and fails very easy... ✌

Thanks for the feedback, glad you liked it ✌🏻

Thanks! I understand what you mean, but I don’t trust that edging to hold my pavers back. Maybe you can grow grass but the edges of your patio are going to fail over time. I would rather not be able to grow grass directly on the edge of my patio then to have the edges of my patio cave in over time ✌🏻

Heave lok It’s a product from my area cleveland Ohio Solves all issues of typical plastic edging And prevents the bs from concreting patio edges Or use a paver base pour. 2-3” concrete base and glue edge brick to base

Biggest issue I see when it comes to edging: improper base extension; edging placed on the bedding course and not the base itself; improper base depth; and lack of spikes. Both Snap Edge and EdgeCrete work great. For me, dense graded installations Have 30 years of snap edge history, clean based systems are secured Nicely with concrete toes/EdgeCrete/etc. Nice video!

Thank you ✌🏻

Sweet, Thank you! I have plenty more projects like this, so I hope you enjoy more content from my channel. Thanks for the feedback! ✌

@@TheChristianHardscaper I’ll probably binge your catalog in the next week. In the next 1-2 months I’m going to install a fairly large (for a non pro) paver patio and walkways. About two years ago I rebuilt my front porch and laid a wide and flaring paver walkway between the porch and driveway. It came out well, but I’ve already seen things in your videos that I wish I employed on that job (concrete edge stabilization and cutting curves in place with saw). Thanks for taking the time and effort to share your craft.

That sounds like a cool project! There are definitely a handful of common failure issues when it comes to pavers. I have spent my career learning how to prevent those issues and I am happy to share them here on RU-vid. Good luck brother! ✌

Thank you! I have gotten that comment a few times on here, never noticed it really but I can kind of see it now ✌🏻

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Thanks, I live in Massachusetts. Cold climate with multiple freeze / thaw cycles over the winter. No plastic edging will ever hold here, especially when using open grade base because the spikes have nothing to bite into. Concrete is the best edge restraint for open grade base, any base really in my opinion. ICPI still pushes mason sand as bedding material and I totally disagree with that…. ✌🏻

@@TheChristianHardscaper Freeze will push you concrete edge a lot easier than the spiked plastic edge, imo,

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Thank you! So the pavers are made by "Nicolock" the paver style is called "Alpine Ridge" with a color blend called "Granite City" The border pavers are also made by "Nicolock" and the pavers are 6inch x 9inch pavers. One is charcoal color blend, and the other is granite city color.

The concrete will last much longer, and even if a small part of it fails. It is so much easier to repair than the plastic edging.... ✌

Thank you ✌🏻

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Thank you! It is regular concrete gravel mix ( 80Lb bags ). There is fiber reinforced concrete out there but it’s very expensive…$ I haven’t seen the value in it yet. 👍🏻

Any concrete mix you find will do. I usually use the 80Lb bags from Home Depot or Lowes, but the fast setting concrete works fine too 👍🏻 I never recommend the plastic edging 🤮

Buy extra to patch later.

Thanks! ✌🏻

Thank you, glad to hear the videos are helpful! ✌

I agree that it looks sweet, I do that sometimes. ✌

Thank you, All the pavers are made by (NicoLock). I like laying the pavers out first and making all my cuts at once, just seems much quicker and easier in my opinion. ✌

🤣 Thanks man! Quality is in the details, plenty more videos to come ✌🏻

No problem, glad they are helpful! I would still recommend concrete over plastic edging with class 5. Install it the same way as here ✌🏻

Thank you, chip stone is just a term we use for 3/8" or 1/4" clean, crushed stone. It can be any type of stone. Good luck with your projects! ✌

Thank you, The landing in front of the back door is 8-10 inches of clean crushed stone, allowing the water to freely flow through to the subsoil. The grass and flowers are in, came out gorgeous! ✌

Thank you, I always recommend crushed stone for the base of you are in a freeze/thaw climate. If your not in a freeze/thaw climate, paverbase is ok

@@TheChristianHardscaper : thanks

Thank you! And yes I am. My base material is 3/4 inch clean crushed stone, my bedding material is 3/8 inch clean crushed stone. It is a permeable paver system that I use even on non permeable applications ✌🏻

Thank you! These pavers are made by "NicoLock" and the style of pavers is called "Alpine Ridge" with a color tone of "Granite City" ✌

Thanks! Crushed limestone is fine for foot traffic but for a driveway install you want crushed granite or something comparable in strength. But for a walkway or patio, its no problem ✌

You rock! Thank you sir.✌️

Thank you! If you have sunken pavers on the edge, all you have to do is break the concrete off the edge where you need to repair. To do that, use a concrete saw or an angle grinder with a diamond blade on it to cut the concrete clean where you need to break it out. One you remove the concrete, lift up the sunken pavers, lay more bedding material, install the pavers again and install new concrete on the edge where you broke it. ✌

@@TheChristianHardscaper Thanks so much for your engagement. Keep up the great work.

Thank you! Check out this video right here to learn how I do my base for pavers 👉🏻How To Properly Backfill For Concrete Pavers (DIY) ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-fDe3tMZQY5o.html

Yes, we use Polymeric sand in our paver joints. ✌

Thank you very much! We always lay the pavers slightly above the grade to help prevent any water issues, then we fold the excess fabric over the edges and cut whatever extra there is after we fold it over. Then we spread loam, mulch or stone, depending on the situation. ✌

Depending on the circumstances, we do it both ways. But the best way in my opinion is to concrete the edge, poly sand and compact close to the same time so you can compact the pavers before the concrete sets. But, if you have to do the concrete first and poly sand / compact after, you can. Just need to be careful along the edge with the compactor so you don't mess with the concrete bond too much. ✌

Building a wall starts with excavating and backfilling properly. It is very important to plan the project and have a clear plan in place. I have multiple videos on my channel that can help, make sure you check them out 👍🏻

Thank you! Those pavers are called "Alpine Ridge" and they are made by "NicoLock". I use Open Grade base for all my hardscape installs. Which is just a clean, 3/4 inch crushed stone.

Thank you! I have a video in the playlist that this video is in that shows how I excavated and backfilled. We used 6-8 inches of clean crushed stone with a 1 inch layer of chip stone ( 3/8 clean crushed stone ) Check out that video right here 👉ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE--5iOgx8CHow.html

Typical installs are excavated 8-12 inches below top of paver height. ✌

That concrete would be perfect and using the mortar due is a very good idea. It will blend in better for sure. ✌

I could not agree more with everything you said! I wish more people could understand what you understand.... Thanks for the support brother! ✌

Hey man, the bedding material is 3/8 clean, crushed stone with no dust or binder materials mixed in. It is called chip stone here where I am and is used mainly for permeable installs but I use it on non permeable installs also. It is a great bedding material, I haven’t used sand is stone dust in many years… ✌🏻

Sounds like repair work done by amateurs…. If the concrete has failed that bad, I totally agree it was not done properly. I also agree that steel reinforcement is very helpful for longevity but not necessary. It is all about installing the proper base that has very little movement. It is when you lay concrete on top of dense grade, sand, stone dust or loam that the concrete fails. That’s because those materials hold on to water like a sponge, causing the material to shift a lot during heavy rain or freeze / thaw cycles in the winter months. If concrete fails on a project, plastic edging would have too. It’s not the concretes fault, it’s the base materials fault… ✌🏻

@@TheChristianHardscaper All about the base!!!

We compact them when we do the polymeric sand. And for around a pool, you made the best decision and used stone. It makes a huge difference in longevity. It’s all about open grade base. Especially up here in New England.✌🏻

Thanks bub, you have some good vids!

I have used it once, seems to be a very good product but man is it very expensive.... I don't use it for that reason. Just like every other industry, you have manufacturers pushing highly profitable products to all us contractors. Some of them just are not worth the money in my opinion. Perma edge is one of them.... ✌

I have quite a few actually.... here a couple of them ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-vA7Qw_136KM.html ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-ZAvH0TyL9yk.html ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-li6e0NZ34p0.html

Yes I have, it works great but is very expensive.... Not worth the money in my opinion. And we use 5.5lb Dead blow hammers. But a 3lb will work, just got to swing it more. LOL

@@TheChristianHardscaper lol makes sense. I do a lot of dry stone walling and it's the same rule of thumb with those hammers. A lighter one will usually work but it takes more swings before that stone is going to break!

I always leave a minimum of a 1 inch gap along foundation. And sometimes I carry the border but not always as you can see. That comes down to preference and circumstance. ✌

No, that is not necessary. Sometimes we fold the fabric back to just under the concrete after it sets to help prevent that

The stuff you mention is for flower bed edging. It supports nothing. Look at a landscaping supply store and see how paver edging is designed. Its stiff and has holes where you use long spikes to help keep it in place.

@@terrythomas790 No holes. Stakes are driven into the edging to hold it in place. It's acting as a cheap border around the lawn. My question is if that edge is solid enough to hold the pavers in place along that edge, meaning I don't need to worry about adding additional cement.

I always recommend concrete on the edge of pavers, however it is very important that you do it correctly. Be sure to create a trench around the outside of your pavers that goes past the bedding layer and slope the concrete from the bottom of the trench to 1 inch below the top of the pavers at about a 45 degree angle ✌

@@TheChristianHardscaper Thank you

I know what you are talking about, it is very expensive and it still doesn't hold as strong as concrete in my opinion.

The plastic edging just never holds tight.... The way you are doing your base now is great, but I do think clean peastone is still a better bedding material than crusher dust. The problem I always explain with that material is that it holds on to water, which is not good in a freeze / thaw climate. It holds the moisture and that is the exact reason the pavers are shifting so much to begin with. Open Grade base from the bottom of the excavation to the bottom of the paver. I would recommend trying to find angular 3/8 inch stone though, if not pea stone will still be better simply for water drainage. As for the concrete, if the water is properly draining under the pavers, the concrete will not shift. It may crack, but it will not shift nearly as much as plastic edging. That's because the base material underneath it is not shifting. Just my opinion, I have been using this technique now for 4 years in Massachusetts, we have a lot of freeze / thaw cycles here.... ✌

Thanks! I use a Stihl TS-420 saw and we are just using regular concrete mix that comes in 80lb bags from any local home improvement store ✌

@@TheChristianHardscaper Thanks

Thanks, a local dealer. They are made by (Nicolock) and they are called ( Alpine Ridge ) ✌🏻

I use regular concrete mix from any home improvement or landscape supply store. 80lb bags. There are plenty of other fiber reinforced options out there, but too expensive…. As long as you do it right, the regular concrete will work just fine ✌🏻

I don’t typically recommend that, 1 for looks but also doesn’t work as good as concrete

I have done that on a few jobs, it makes the border very strong. I think the only downside to that is the pavers can't lift with the freeze / thaw cycle here. Even with the open grade base we use, the ground will freeze and heave, then thaw and sink multiple times a winter here in MA. Though it is only 1/4-1/2 inch of movement usually, it is enough to mess up the border if it is laid in concrete. With concreting just the edge, the pavers can freely move up and down while being held in on the side.

@@TheChristianHardscaper that makes sense. Thanks for the reply and great work on the channel!

@@jaynenreibling6674 no problem man. Thanks for the support and I'm glad you like the channel ✌

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just regular concrete mix you get from home depot or lowes in 80lb bags. usually 4-7 dollars per bag. 1 bag will get you 15-20 linear ft.

I would recommend that for sure. the concrete just holds up so much better in my experience ✌

I would recommend removing all the stone dust, leave the gravel if it is in good shape. Re do the bedding layer with chip stone ( 3/8 of inch clean crushed stone) then re lay the pavers with a concrete edge restraint like you see here✌🏻 and I guess it just depends how far of a trip it is from here to there, but I might possibly do something like that…

@@TheChristianHardscaper should I have the base come out 6 in beyond the last brick of the walk? I don't think I extended the base far enough because some of the border bricks have slid off and kind of tilted down on the edge. Do paving stones have the same problem with spalling that bricks do? Some of my bricks absorb water which then freezes and breaks them up. In the winter that brick walkway, which is on the north side of the house, becomes a skating rink. Especially after a heavy slushy snow and I think that's what's ruining the bricks.

@@TheChristianHardscaper I live in 03031 zip, Amherst, NH.

Here in America they have very large manufacturer facilities that make the pavers with very expensive machines. I am not really sure how they are made exactly... But the company who made these pavers is called (Nicolock). You could probably research them a little and find out. ✌

@@TheChristianHardscaperThank you for the info, I am a fan of your videos, really encouraging to do same out here...

Unfortunately you can’t really use spikes in the base material I use (3/4” clean crushed stone). So the spikes will not hold. That being said, if you use this base material, you will have less shifting with the cold weather which helps keep the concrete in tact for much longer ✌🏻

@@TheChristianHardscaper I use 6” of 3/4 clear under 1” of hpb, when I use the 12” spikes they always catch enough to hold well in place because you got a good 5” of the spike into the sun soil, and if I’m doing a driveway I install 12” of 3/4 crusher run compacted which the nail grab ready we’ll on. I’ve never had issues so far. This ended up looking really good btw.

Ps it's not a smooth circular curve more like a smooth 90 degree turn

Hey Diana, I’m glad my videos are helping with your project! I have my email address on my channel page if you would like to send a few pictures. It sounds like a very custom corner that will take some time and finesse work. Once I see it, I’ll gladly let you know what I would do. Thanks for your support! ✌🏻

@@TheChristianHardscaper I was able to figure it out, but you're amazing for being willing to offer advice if I had sent the photos!

Awesome!