Intel And The AI PC Revolution! Lunar Lake REVEALED 

You forgot Nvidia

@@NameUserOf if you include that, you are in the afterlife

So you think AI was not important? What is your point?

Dammit youtube why are you deleting my comments again?

If I got a dollar for everytime I heard "AI" from the tech industry I'd pay off my student loans by now lol

How many CVEs, could you see, if the CVEs from AI, could see eye to AI?

Not sure if this would not somewhat degrade the memory-bandwidth. M4 and Snapdragon have 120-135 GB/s and they all have the memory right next to the SoC. Very wide busses might help (M2/M3 Max has 512 Bit with 400GB/s), but I saw only 2 chips in the videos. I also would LOVE to be able to upgrade RAM again, but am skeptical. For AI inference token-generation the memory bandwidth is the key limiting factor, not the shiny TOPs/FLOPs - the SoC needs to pump GBytes of parameters to the cache for each token generated. NPU/GPU top performance is only necessary for prompt-processing, where AI-pworkloads can batch the token-processing. AI on the edge will become quite a standard workload for PCs, requiring >100GB/s as baseline. P.S: CAMM2 in theory seems to have 160 Bit wide access at 7.5 GT/s - if the chip uses 2x64-Bit=128 Bit, this gives 100GB/s.

m4 has 100GB/s at 6400mhz​@@andikunar7183

@@andikunar7183Well, that’s only true for LLMs. True, nonetheless.

@@andikunar7183 the real question is: why are we trying to run these workloads on laptops? Run that shit on a server at home like God intended.

@@theglowcloud2215 you might live a bit in the past. The whole Idea of this Copilot+PC innovation (which I like) these chips are for, is that some Information better stays on your machine and will get AI processed locally - "inference on the edge", next to also cloud inference. It's not about beefy machine-learning, just single-user inference (good TOPS + memory-bandwidth).

I find them disturbing, deeply.

Snapdragon X Elite is promising that kind of battery life, but translation performance with Windows on Arm remains to be seen in the real world.

Back to you, Steve.

“AI” in a CPU name is a good reason for me not to buy it.

If you work with Microsoft Office, the AI functionality will power the copilot product. If you are a developer, the AI functions will assist in Visual Studio development. If you game, the AI functions will assist in NPC language and actions. If you do graphics work the Adobe suite leverages them for filters and effects.

All search will be AI assisted.

Why are so many people getting tired of AI? I get that it is overhyped but it is moving everything forward, it is everywhere. I also suggest that if you don't like Microsoft Copilot than move to Linux. I've got llama3 running on fedora and it's opensource, so many possibilities. I can build an AI security bot for my system and network and discord bots and on and on. We are going through a paradigm shift and it is difficult to comprehend.

Adorable that you think your life won't be forcibly augmented by AI within the next 12 months.

Are you engaged in relaxing, or is it your rifle you are polishing, giving it a good waxing?

@@mrhassell You seem a bit rifle obsessed, ngl

@@PropaneWP it's you who's relaxing and demonstrating your appreciation champ! Something on your nose..

Wait for the hands on. The npu has 8 mb of sram for a buffer so.. the pieces are here at least. But a lot can happen between nownans launch

I believe the on-die RAM will help maximize bandwidth & latency.

@@PhazerTech this will help, but with 2 chips (16/32GB RAM) it probably will get a similar bandwidth to the M4 or SnapDragon X - probably 120-135 GB/s. Where the M-series Max have 400GB/s and the Ultra 800GB/s. P.S: CAMM2 in theory seems to have 160 Bit wide access at 7.5 GT/s - if the chip uses 2x64-Bit=128 Bit, this gives 100GB/s.

@@andikunar7183that’s really useful. Thanks for sharing the maths :)

It's more than 544 GB/s at bandwidth. Which is a real number unlike Apple's 800gb lies.

For "Ice Lake" (2020) - Intel addressed this by disabling C1E auto-promotion and exposing C1E as a separate idle state, allowing better control over power-saving features. drivers/idle/intel_idle.c 36 Intel Xeon X5xxx processors go into a race condition, was patched years ago in Microsoft and Linux, having a similar issue, which your vendors really should know about in either case and be able to patch or work around the issue, as it is not exactly a mystery or ancient tai-chi mastery... probably exists, as it goes for known problems, for equally as long however.. co-located.. good luck with that! Much fun... so much! Oh, how I do not envy thee, good day to you sir and God speed - boom-tsh!

What are you talking about. I already have 128GB RAM on my Desktop RiG at home with an X670E Mobo + a 7950X3D + an RX 7900XTX

@@Gielderst What speed?

@Overseer476 So, currently the RAM DIMMs which i have in my RiG are: 4x 32GB " G.SKILL Trident Z5 RGB White 6400MHz CL32-39-39-102 1.40V XMP " All 4 of them are exactly the same! And currently i have them left at my Mobo's BIOS Defaults, my Mobo is a GIGABYTE X670E AORUS MASTER Rev.1.x with Latest BIOS version F30! And the RAM is running @ 3600MHz CL30-30-30-58-88 1T at the moment at this BIOS Default! I have NOT yet attempted to tweak my RAM. Because i'm saving up for the newly announced GIGABYTE X870E AORUS XTREME Mobo when it comes out, and after that for a Ryzen 9950X3D when it comes out. Because i'm a Desktop PC Enthusiast and this is my one and only hobby i'm passionate about. 🤓😅😀

@@Gielderst talking about laptops and their ram bus width as well as total ram. People are paying $4.7k to buy Apple laptops with 128gb of unified ram so they can work with bigger llms. If amd, intel, Qualcomm want to compete with that they are going to need wider laptop buses with more ram. Desktop is a little different but similar with people paying $5.6k for 192gb of unified memory on the Mac Studio. With much higher bandwidth than you can get on consumer desktop.

@tomis181 I'm not familiar with anything Apple, cause i've never ever been even slightly interested in Apple hardware and products. Due to hearing from others how expensive and overpriced Apple products are, be it iPhones or their Mac Computers, also how they're isolated almost entirely from the PC Gaming scene, by not supporting PC Games on their MacOS. But i'm familiar that in the PC Scene, you have Computers which are above the Desktop PC. Such as the Workstation/High End Desktop PC. Which utilize AMD's Threadripper PRO 7000WX or Intel's Xeon W-3400 CPUs with up to 8 channel DDR5 DIMM slots, up to 96 CPU Cores with AMD and up to 128 PCIe 5.0 lanes. My point is that, i think that any of those machines fitted with the flagship CPUs and the Maximum amount of supported DDR5 RAM DIMMs and the Flagship GPUs by either AMD or NVIDIA, can pretty much beat any Apple Mac Computer and wipe the floor with it. 😎😁

“If you build it they will come” gotta have the hardware available if people are going to write software for it. Here’s hoping the silicon doesn’t go to waste.

They could atleast release something like a low power sound equaliser or something like that which shifts the load away from cpu But nope

@@tomis181 🤔, how’s that going for Apples Neural Engine now after 4 years of Apple Silicon?

@@carbongrip2108 I don’t have a MacBook so can’t comment there but the neural engine on the iPhone does have a handful of tricks I enjoy. Fair points though and I don’t buy into AI everywhere hype but it will certainly have a solid place in computers from now on.

The ANE is very hard to use, its access is not very open and hit&miss for programs to get to it, Apple‘s Software finally decides if your program runs on the ANE or not. For the NPU the developers are in control.

Laptops suck. That's why i have built my own RiG with an X670E Mobo + a Ryzen 7950X3D with a 420mm AIO + an RX 7900 XTX + 128GB RAM + 1250W PSU + 4x M.2 NVME SSDs + a Full Tower big a$$ Case. 😎

You are being too pessimistic. I've been around since the 80s. Intel previously dominated. Bad management ruined Intel. Since Intel changed to Pat Gelsinger, Intel is changing dramatically. Intel relative to AMDs Bulldozer era, its in a much better position.

​@@MrPtheManyup people seemed to forget it has been repeated time and time again for few years Intel will be in lead and then AMD then Intel and on and on

Twice. When they released a bluetooth mouse and with their now famous, industry grab bag goodies, solar powered calculator.

ARL will be the same as MTL. IO, SOC, & iGPU TILES are all the same as MTL & all are made in TSMC.

Striking similarity - lol

Snapdragon needs emulation to run x86 software. AMD Strix Point doesn’t need emulation. Lunar Lake has only 4 P cores & no SMT!

You mean promises? Yes, new and original.

​@@dgo4490cynical

Yeah, he means q4, no reason to yell

@@Workaholic42 oh, understandable. Have a nice day

Q3 released decades ago, bro. 😉

not really.

The Intel n100 has been around forever

Actually it will be even more useless.

If it does over 30tokens per second in Llama without a gpu it's already useful considering that cant be done on igpu

@@user-yd1qk9kw9n uhh isn't 4090 doing like 20tokens/s on 30b LLMs? This doing 30?

@@user-yd1qk9kw9n i tried to find memory bandwidth on that, it looks like it will be 170 max which would mean around 3 tokens/s for 30b models at 8bit

No, we’re not getting that!

@@tringuyen7519 Godammit 🙄

Mate what are you on??? It won't be called a 15900K. It will be called an intel Core Ultra 9 285K on the LGA1851 socket platform Motherboards with 800 series intel chipsets.

Of course not! You need a $5000 Xeon for that 🙄

Yeah Intel, keep giving TSMC all of your business. Lunar Lake, Meteor Lake, & Gaudi GPU all use TSMC. US gave Intel $20 billion for this?

Apple NPUs are not very fast. M4 will have a big upgrade on NPU supposedly.

Yes, but Apple's base-technology software is limited. E.g. no GPU/ANE access from Docker/VMs (unlike native Linux/Windows GPU/NPU access), ANE access is also very shaky (as developer you can only hope your code runs on the ANE, Apple decides on the fly). I really hope that they fix this with WWDC24 announcements.

@@Fordance100 I’m not sure about the M series chips, but I know as far back as the iphone x (10) they were touting generational improvements in their neural engines. Clearly some degree of foresight was present and perhaps has been simmering in the background. Their reputation for not being the first mover, but coming later with a trimmed down and polished goof-proof mass market implementation, may be in play here.

@@andikunar7183 I feel they have allot riding on iOS 18 and this WWDC. The grievances are starting to add up, and they really do need to turn a fresh corner. They must be feeling some pressure to reveal Ai stuff. But I think it’s actually probably better to wait. Allowing all the other players to blunder and discredit their own reputations while Apple hones whatever they’re up to. With their recent regulatory setbacks with the app store and USB C, I would think Ai regulation would be top of mind. Maybe they’re waiting to read the room before sticking out their neck.

i agree. AMD went a much easier route.

IMO they killed gpu crypto mining so they could have resources for AI. If it was about the environment, like they said, then they wouldn’t be doing AI training and inference. Llama3 training alone is using tens of thousands of H100 GPU’s (possibly hundreds of thousands GPU’s) at 700w each.

AMD had an NPU since their Phoenix mobile APUs, so it's not as "last minute" as you think.

Ah, I see you've never touched hardware before.

Abominable Intelligence

Algorithmic Incontinence

lol, no. NPUs are here to stay and unlike VR, they are actually useful and practical.

@@shmookins oh i know but AI mobos just shows they are cramming it into everything like they did VR

Could be here to stay, but also way overhyped. Those of us who actually run models realize this. Maybe it’s better for those that can spend 6-7 figures on vram. But for commoners it’s totally overrated

​@@shmookinsjust because you're not paying attention to vr/ar doesn't mean there's no innovations with them.

@@shmookinsBusiness will ban this as a pci and hippa compliance and criminals would love to watch you enter passwords and hide eternal self installing malware inside recalls since AV software can’t find it

I am more interested in Intel. I have Ryzen 7840 hs laptop. I can't still access to NPU, really disappointing. Intel Openvino can easily use CPU, GPU and NPU.

Amd apu still better than intel. Specially the npu

You know, i used to think like that too, until i learned what a use case was... and actually tried a bunch of hardware, instead of gleaning my opinions from stock tech tuber testing.

What's happened? did it burn??? I bought it 1 week ago😯

@@chesslive2714 my io went out. It was undervolted too! So my usb ports went in and out and failed to boot sometimes with a usb drive plugged in. My gpu kept reinstalling itself next. In Linux the driver didn’t reinstall and required a reboot for the second monitor?? I realized my pch was overvilted by .5 volts which damaged the ports. I then decreased clocks to 5.2 ghz and upped the voltage to stabilize which degraded it further. In the end my new 7950x3d outperforms my 13900k as I had all the undervolts and clocks

There are lawyers you know, Intel showed comparisons with their own products, but it is true they mentioned Qualcomm x elite processors that already hit the market. I don’t think Intel is allowed just to claim whatever they want in an event like this

not that much, moores law is dead just went over it and pointed out that pricing is what will make or break the new AMD cpu's as they are going to be just behind or equal to arrow lake but they may be way more energy efficient and if they price it decently then they can smoke Intel as you say but if they decide to get greedy instead, well time will tell.

New AMD chips are 15% faster. No real new technology. Intel finally move to 3nm and below after 3 generations on 10nm. I think AMD power efficiency advantage is gone.

⁠@@Fordance100 amd has actually mew technology and intel only ups the clock without any sense. Amd cpus are waaaaaay more efficient. Compare 7800x3d vs 14900k. 14900k eats more then 300W 😂.

But the only thing we want is faster...power and energie 90% doenst give a F...​@@Fordance100

@@user-ls2cm6hf9d the point is this time is a completely different architecture for intel. What you are dong I’d like saying “all amd does is make hot messes like bulldozer”. Times change. Intel will also be the first to have backside power delivery. Whoever is behind generally creates hotter CPUs to try to make them look more competitive. It used to be amd when intel was ahead. Then it was intel when amd was ahead. And now we are in a new paradigm.