I checked on mine, your high readings are due to the busbars. I get similar results measuring through the busbars, and .17 or .16 measuring directly on the cell terminals.
I have the YR1035+ too, but it came with no manual (I had to find a YT video to even start to use it because the display was set to Chinese). I bought the tester specifically for testing my 280ah cells. When the manual says it's not accurate for cells over 100ah I *hope* it means the reading may be off by a small percentage yet still close enough for me. The cells I bought were advertised as having an IR of 0.1 ~ 0.3mΩ and all my cells read 0.18mΩ so I figured that was good. Do you have a link to your manual?
@@charlesrichards5389 Yes, but youtube won't let me post a link. Pretty easy to find, go to diysolarforum dot com, open resources and search for yr1035. Mine came with a photocopy that I couldn't read, another user scanned and cleaned it up and posted it.
@@OffGridGarageAustralia Yes, I think the reading error is acceptable for DIY/civilian purposes. I downloaded the manual (thanks to John Emmert above) and in its FAQ it says (verbatim): Q: Can YR1035+ measure large single lithium iron phosphate battery? A: Lithium iron phosphate is generally recommended to measure batteries within 100 ampere hours. The internal resistance of the battery above 100 ampere hours is generally lower than the recommended measurement of 0.3mΩ or more. This battery can be measured with internal resistance below 100V and above 0.3~0.5mΩ. Q: The internal resistance below 0.3mΩ cannot be measured, can it? A: It is not impossible to measure, and the reading error is large. For example, 1mΩ error plus or minus 0.03mΩ, if it is 0.2mΩ error plus or minus 0.05mΩ, so more than 0.3mΩ is recommended. The measured value of 0.05mΩ is sometimes very accurate, but the uncertainty will make the reference of little significance. Further down, the FAQ appears to give conflicting statements concerning under what conditions you can measure a battery pack. I *think* it says you can measure a battery pack up to 100V, but the limit 28V if the leads are reversed.
I was wondering how to check battery resistance with my multi but wow! This device makes it super simple good one brother! May be interested in getting for future thanks! Cheers and sunny days brother 😎 🌞☀🌤
The probes are meant to puncture the oxide layer of the terminal to get a good reading. Especially with low IR, you will get results all over the place when not directly contacting the terminals. The reading then depends on the surface finish of the terminal vs. bus bar, the tightening moment of the screw, the diameter of washers and even if the threads have been cleaned before or not. -> Measuring at the terminals is a great deal more reliable.
in my tests were the measurement accuracy of voltage with TR1035 not so good and with Tester ZKE Tech EBC-A20 you can also measure internal resistance, but only with pc program, look at menu
The ZKE testers do measure the resistance but it is not accurate at all. Hence I bought this tester which is as precise as it can get in a home environment
Its most likely the high soc that mess the measurements up (not the busbars). In this high state of charge the resistance curve have different shape among the cells. Discharge to 80% and test again.
052921/1230h PST 🇺🇸 053021/0530 Brisbane. Good day to you. Thanks for introducing TR1035 IRT meter. I’m procuring one. This meter is highly required for myself when dealing with many types and models of Cells. Presently, I’m using a very rudimentary device made by ‘SKYRC-B6AC+v2’ charger/ discharger that’s capable of testing, IR of 18650/26650 etc. I obtain IR reading on each 18650/26650 cells. Since I weaned out of Li-ion cells into LiFePo4 cells, TR1035 looks like a better IR tester and less cumbersome, than the former. Thanks again for your report and comments. Have a nice day ahead. 73s...
Not directly. Only an internal resistance meter can show you the internal resistance. You can use a clamp meter to do different measurements and then calculate the internal resistance though.
Most of the resistance measured is probably bus bar. I have designed and manufactured an AC battery tester, and they work well for determining the lifespan of all lead-acid-- the resistance increases ~linearly with battery age (inverse of capacity). Unfortunately, resistance measurement of the lithium ion chemistries doesn't correlate well with capacity loss or remaining life. It DOES correlate well with fake-capacity claims, but for that matter, battery weight also tells you if the capacity claim is fake.
@@mcsroberto1 For lead-acid batteries, the capacity goes down as the resistance goes up. The remaining life capacity scales something like resistance to the negative 0.7 power, I think.
also the results you got were extremely low, if they are true it would show that all cells are beyond excellent in health. you should get much higher resistance if they were bad, several ohms
Actually the resistance is above specification for the Eve cells. Mine measure in the .17 or .16 milliohms range without the busbars, specification is .25 or less.
@@OffGridGarageAustralia That makes more sense. Cell's Rs at 15 degs C is almost 150% that of 25 degC. With some strap resistance added in, the numbers look believable. Only question left to be answered is the 2 to 1 variance between max and min numbers due to strap contact resistance variance or actual cell Rs variance? Straps are fixable, cell Rs variance is not. Aluminum contact resistance is highly dependent on compression force. I like the separate post studs with allen screw locking holes that allows maximum cell post thread insertion into cell terminal reducing likelyhood of stripping out cell terminal threads. Top washer diameter should at least match the cell terminal surface diameter and be thick enough so it doesn't pucker at center of washer when tightened to get uniform pressure across cell terminal surface. BMS lug above large washer. Add another washer on top of BMS lug if you have the stud length. Get a torque wrench and go for 8 N-meter of torque. I use a little white vinegar on cloth (avoid getting into threads) then clean off with 91% or higher isopropol alcohol. Aluminum oxide builds up quickly so assemble immediately after cleaning/drying.
Measuring a raw cell ir with a multimeter / doing the calcs and comparing that to your ir meter now that would be interesting! Thanks for your efforts 🐸!
Great suggestion! We just need to find someone who is doing it 😂 I'll stick with the tester and just 'believe' what it says. Not sure how accurate the calculation is as it requires a lot of voltage and current measurements. So possible errors may sum up...
Thank you for a detailed description. thank you I was always studying alone... Thank you for providing useful information. 자세한설명 감사합니다. 고맙습니다 ~ 늘 혼자공부중이었는데 ..... 유익한정보를 얻게되어 고맙습니다.
Whoa, shout-out for Radio Shack! I worked at Radio Shack 40 years ago in Miami. You could get a card that entitled you to a free battery a month (yeah, kinda lame, but it was free). Radio Shack is still the only job I've ever had to take a polygraph for to get hired. Now I'm processing $Billions in pay requests for Florida. Go figure.
welcome I want to ask I bought battery cells from China I think when the goods arrive after almost two months the effort will be different between some of them I mean not all will be the same effort What can I do to unite the effort Thanks
You and your commenters are inspiring me to build a 48v battery for solar, thank you! Definitely a "beer money" video. I really wanted you to test each raw cell directly not through the bus bars or studs.🥺I and apparently thousands of people appreciate your efforts and expense! 🍺To you!
not realy! he is doing test because he likes to know, so do i . but if you notice he and many other and your self testing and talking about 50V my batterys are on the way but i am working with 500 volt and that is the lowest voltage i will use why because 50 A x 500 V = 25Kwh and yes i am using 50 A x 50 V batterys X 10 sure you can run them paralel but not in serie, do not try this you will blow them up.
Oh very cool, I've been looking at some of these. maybe it can confirm the resistance of the bus bars too ;) Interesting that it was mentioned below about the reading not being accurate for >100Ah cells. I wonder if you can do any other measurements to check how accurate yours actually is.
It does. The further away you measure from the actual terminal, the higher the resistance as it measures the resistance of the bus bar as well. How do you know if it is accurate or not? What do you compare it to?
Hello, may I know what is the resistance of the cell of a Toyota Hybrid car, the capacity is 7.2 volts, and the ampere is 6.5, and it is a nickel hydrogen? Thank you
Hi mate how do you like to make a 100 A battery to 9000 A? most likely it have to be89.33 A the batterys are in serie not paralel. that is also why you have a R from o.06 i think you know it your self. but thanks mij interest is the R behavior in serie and it is what it have to be.
I do see we can buy tr1035 and yr1035 I can’t see the different and what is the different from the ordinary tr1035 and upgraded version???? I can’t see the different of non of them , just the price ….. thanks for share your experience 👍👊🏻
Will the batteries being tested have to be disconnected from the system? What is the correct internal resistance value of the 12V 19A AGM battery? Thanks
I wonder which has more of an effect, the internal resistance of each cell or the capacity of each cell? If most of the cells are close to spec at 280 Ah but a few are less, say 260 Ah, then the low capacity cells will drop in voltage faster when discharging. Assuming the BMS only top balances when charging. The low Ah capacity cells will drop in SOC and open circuit voltage more than the higher capacity batteries, regardless of what the internal resistances are. Right?
Yes and No. Another good way of testing each of your cells is to fully charge each cell to the same voltage (i.e. saturate) say 3.55 and then let them sit for an hour and measure the drop in voltage over time (without load). Clearly a heathy cell the drop in voltage will be low as compare to a less heathier cell the drop will be greater. How fast and how much it drops is directly related to the internal resistance and health of the cell, as the the cell deteriorates its internal resistances increases and its capacity decreases. That's why I'm a big believer in match cells internal resistance (if you can) then just matching the voltage (at the top or bottom) because you can get any cell (good or bad) to match at any voltage you like doesn't mean they are going to play nice together. Its more related to matching their change in voltage (internal resistance) with load/charging then just a particular voltage at the start or end. You might say that's what a cell balancer is for, but based on my trials balancers are doing very little (you think they're doing something but they're not really) and for good reason the maximum amperage that any balances can operate with is 1 amp (some way less) but during loading/charging it could be up to 100 amps flowing so the balancers is moving drops in an ocean around. What you see on a balancer readout is each cell catching up with each other (as they become saturated) not so much the balancer doing it. Hence the reason it is better matching charge/discharged rates/charge levels then just a particular voltage level, once you do this you will see much better total cell balance and you will realise very quickly that you don't need a balancer (you didn't need one in the first place). Clearly you still need cell protection (i.e. cut off if outside 2.5v and 3.6v voltage) this is a must!!...but cell balancing is completely different thing. Easy to prove my point, charge one cell to 3.4v (cut of charging immediately) and another cell to 3.4v but saturate it (there is a reason I chosen 3.4 because it will take much longer to saturate) then use them together immediately and watch how bad they play together and no amount of cell balancing will help this, unless you let them sit there for a very long time together on the balancer without use. Important point is they have exactly the same voltage at the beginning but completed different charge/discharge potential.
You cannot win. You have 16 individual cells with different parameters and behaviours. Even if you have them perfectly matched, once they get older, they will drift again and mismatch the whole pack.
@@OffGridGarageAustralia yes agree its a challenge alright but if you match their charge/discharge potential they seem to stay in balance for longer and you get max capacity out of your battery for longer. Agree they will eventually go out of balance and you need to start again but hopefully not for years
@@markparker9749 Hi Mark, two cells right balanced have simply exactly the same voltage...and not more. That does not mean they have the same discharge quality, specially in high discharge conditions. If they have exactly the same RI, it's a better test (but not absolutely the most secure , the video shows it) to think they have the same discharge quality. Control of the auto-discharge after some hours (after full charge) is an indication, but how can we analyse the voltage difference? We simply know ther's a little issue, but without possible estimation of the issue, only if the V fall is really too big. RI difference is more reliable, at the moment and for the future. I think it could be interesting to test IR at the teminals AND at the other end of the circuit, (just before motor or else) , to appreciate what is lost during the "travel". The real work of the battery is finally what it can give to the device. With a big lost we know that the batterie must drain lost amps.That can show eventually an issue in the cables and connections. No absolute values, but comparatively (on different devices or on the same one later) interesting. -On terminals to estimate the battery -on the other end to appreciate the quality of the circuit if we have an issue. Friendly, Michel.
I have the same YR1035+ and the same 8 pcs cells, I measured all between 14-16m ohms directly on terminals. Another interesting thing if you measure the busbars between two cells, you can measure their resistance/voltage drop (under load). I did this, with the original 2mm busbar and after then the DIY 5mm CU one, and I have much lower values.And you can find bad connections.
Low internal resistance cell's will always charge and discharge faster than cell's with higher internal resistance, this is why a balance circuit is needed to a series string of Batteries, the only other way around this particular problem is to charge each individual cell with their own dedicated cell charge circuit which is how and why I'm charging my series string battery bank! I don't have any balance issues and no need for a balance circuit! All the cells get exactly what they need when available! I don't know what the internal resistance is of my Batteries but I understood the importance of the part that internal resistance play's in a series string connected battery and designed the charge circuit accordingly and I have never looked back since! It's fully automatic by design..
@@OffGridGarageAustralia I haven't heard of that system! I have to look it up, it sounds interesting! Edit: I just had a look at it and it doesn't charge each cell independently! It charges the cells as a single series string which is what you are doing!
@@paul_dz no I don't, my current setup is using one solar panel per cell and each cell has it's own MPPT charge controller. The charge controller is cheap from eBay and costs $10AU plus $5AU for delivery so I purchased a lot of them to spread out the cost of shipping. They are rated for 150W of power which is plenty for a single cell but adds up when you have a 48V battery string! No one makes an MPPT charge controller with an isolated output so that it would be possible to run multiple charge Controller's of a series string of panels so I had to do it this way! The only real difference is that I have cables from each panel coming into the garage wherein I would have had just one set for all the panels if isolated charge Controller's were actually available, but at least I can shut off individual panels if I ever need to! So in a way, it's not a bad setup the way that it is. I should add also that the batteries that I'm using are 12V 8Ah Lifepo4 Batteries! They are not cheap per Ah but they are cheap to buy a set of 4 for a 48V series string, and they can also be paralleled... I'm currently working on a solution to develop an MPPT charge controller with an isolated output that will work with the 3.2V Lifepo4 Batteries. All the components are available but no one has ever thought about putting it together so I guess that means I have to do it...
This device is first of all useful for testing regularly Li-Ion batteries (particularly with high discharge Amps) which are not so reliable as Lifepo4 by use (look at Dyson's batteries for ex. , with only one cells row in series for too many amps), or to select cells with same IR value before assembling a reliable pack , or for not protected lipomere batteries with very low IR and high discharge amps , to be sure that all cells keep the same discharge value . Lifepo4 is much more sure and stable. Your IR differences (last part of the video) are very small and don't show any cell issue , perhaps a very small connection issue (no copper bar bus?) but not more. But after each year use, why not a quick test to compare? I test sometimes my DIY motorcycle LFP batterie since 5 years and now with the YR1035...never recharged in the winter , almost like new although a not very precise regulator (sometimes over 14,6V). Friendly, Michel.
063022/2230h PST 🇺🇸 070122/1530h Brisbane 🇦🇺 I’m watching this video for the second time. Bu this time I procured YR1035+; the unit being the same, similar to yours. Since then I measured all my 18650s/ 21700s/26650s, Lishens/ Eves etc etc and understood the values. I noted that the internal 18650 needs to be fully charged after a series of tests, otherwise, the reading would be quite wrong. The small user manual was unsightly, but thanks for your elaborate introduction and usage procedure. 73s…
0.31 + 0.4 + 0.24 + 0.34 + 0.27 + 0.40 + 0.57 + 0.21 + 0.29 + 0.33 + 0.48 + 0.35 + 0.27 + 0.34 + 0.56 + 0.46 = 5.82 ~= 6.0, all in milliohms - If you had a bad connection to any of those cells that connection would get hot, or at least, more hot, than the rest and you'd be able to see it on a thermal camera (if you own one). I strongly doubt that that's the case given clean new metal with sufficient torque on the fasteners, however you'd know if my assumptions are sound. Not sure why you didn't do the math and include it in the video, however for me doing it confirmed that your tool is good. Also, your test of walking the bus bar also seemed to confirm it as good, that's about what you'd expect from such a strip of copper. Good stuff, thanks - I should order one of these and examine my large collection of LiFePO4 cells that have now done quite a lot of work over a few years. I bet some are the worse for wear as a result. Cheers :-)
Is this good for all lithium cells? I'm looking for an IR reader that I will maybe use a handful of times a year. Don't wanna spend a lot but also don't want junk. Looking at testing NMC Panasonic cells, headway, yinlong. Possibly scrib mostly for car audio batteries but all for fixing my children's electric toys. Thanks for your video, I appreciate the break down of use etc.
A small note on the the reason for 4 wires. Look up "Kelvin klamps". One wire pair is the measuring current (the AC current), the second pair is just measuring the voltage at the measuring object. The two pairs har their own Pogo pins. The measuringcurrent wires carries the higher measuring current that may have voltage drop anywhere. The voltage measuring wires har very high impedance and there for no voltage dropp.
@@OffGridGarageAustralia No, it induces an AC current across the battery (through a capacitor) and measures the voltage created at another series capacitor connected to the battery. The lower the internal resistance, the more load on the induced AC current and hence, lower voltage. The two wire pairs is a Kelvin clamp eliminating the effect of any voltage and current drop in the measuring circuit.
I tested an un-used high-discharge 18650 Samsung cell. The Kerchoff/Ohm law method said it's IR was 26 milli-ohm, but this meter said it's 12.5 milli-ohm! Since the meter uses an AC wave at 1kHz. does that mean it's inherently more accurate then the other method? Am I understanding that right?
Hi I have the same device, you do not know why on the battery, for example, 12 volts shows resistance 0L? I have 2 working batteries showing 0L, on a faulty one shows 100 ohms, but on a working one it cannot be 0L ?
@@OffGridGarageAustralia I think I understood what's the matter. If the battery is not fully charged, the resistance reading may be incorrect. I checked on the packaging of 12 volt new batteries, according to the datasheet they have a resistance of 22 milliohms. and all the batteries showed 22-23 milliohms. the voltage was at least 12 volts each, although I don't understand this, because if voltage lower, resistance greater ..
You mean 100 milliohms? (not 100ohms!)... have you selected AutoR on the tester? if not , with a low value manually selected, you will find OL on a used batterie because its IR is higher than the selected value...exactly like for a multimeter.
@@john_in_phoenix This is an excellent way to test *all* the connections. I've had mixed results using a thermal imager (hot-spots can hide behind washers or bus-bars). But if one IR measures higher than the others, then you know that one may have a problem, or at least could be improved. And you can confirm it if you measure before and after making an adjustment (or polishing terminals😉).
@@charlesrichards5389 Good suggestion, I have not purchased an infrared camera yet. I am however still looking for a good one that is cheap. I was just lucky to have cells both with and without busbars to compare with.
Even if the tester is not super precise, you can still compare the results across your cells and find the odd ones. I tested some brand new 280Ah cells, they are all within a few 40uOhms
Man I got around 100 higee and eve cells from basen and non of them measure 0.20 ohms they are all around 0.55 to 0.8 at the same time eve cells from docan power they are really close to the specified 0.2ohms basen used to be good now they are dodgey
Thanks for the info! I messed up somewhat and have about 200 spim08hp cells... degraded performance and a huge bummer. I had to take the entire system down to test each cell. Maybe we'll win the lottery and I can get some Eve lifepo4 and do this right.
Ouch, yeah, that sounds like a lot of work. Prices will not come down in the near future for the EVEs is my guess. The demand has exceeded the production by far.
I've been looking at them and while not cheap it's better than dealing with unreliability. I can't get down about it because I've learned a lot. Some cells are testing around 50mr while the next is 500mr. It's not a waste because once I get through this I think these cells are going to power the greenhouse and water tank for the garden. Thanks for replying to me
Well I went ahead and bought 12 Eve 280AH cells! They'll be here in 2 days, shipping out fairly local! Thanks again for the videos you work so hard on.
If you have a 24V battery, ( two 12V in series) can you use 2 charge controllers (12V PWM ebay cheap) to charge each battery, and then parallel your solar panels to both controllers? would that work?
You can charge individual batteries in series, with either a charger or solar controller but likely to get out of balance very quickly. Also wouldn't recommend connecting different controllers to the same panels. Never done it myself and I don't think I will either, I would not recommend it at all. But hey give it a go and lets us know if anything catches fire.
I have a chargery bms and it seems to show different IR for rest, charging and discharging so if you are measuring cells at rest, it might not give a actual behavior on how it discharges.. but I am not sure..
As I understand it, only an open-circuit measurement is valid, and even that changes with the cell's SOC. Putting something else in the circuit would introduce its resistance as well (not to mention any ripple possibly confusing the tester's 1kHz signal).
When BMS has Rs measurement capability it is usually doing it by measuring ripple current caused voltage drop by sinewave inverter DC current profile (120 Hz for 60 Hz inverter, 100 Hz for 50 Hz inverters). Kinetic energy voltage drop should not effect Rs measurement much since it has a long time constant. Rs reported will be more accurate the higher the inverter load or charge current which results in higher ripple voltage to read across cell. Don't rely on reported Rs numbers when inverter current is light. Also the inverter input filter caps start to become an issue to smoothing ripple at low load currents. Some BMS's will not update Rs readings if inverter current drops below a minimum level that results in a cell ripple voltage below what the BMS can accurately measure. BMS Rs measurement won't work right if using a modified sinewave inverter as the BMS is assuming a sinewave load current profile. If you have a separate high frequency PV charge controller in parallel with inverter it can screw up the Rs measurement by BMS. It is generally okay if the inverter current drawn is much greater then PV charger current. For Li-Ion there will be little difference in Rs whether measured at 1 KHz, 120 Hz ripple current, or a DC current pulse. For impedance meters, the 1 KHz is a good spot to make a narrow bandwidth filter to achieve good low level voltage sensitivity for reading ripple voltage across cell when driven with low drive current (approximately 1 amp rms). Impedance meter is only using AC current to make measurement so there is zero contribution to result due to cell kinetic energy.
No, this is an internal resistance tester for cells and batteries only. The panel tester is in the next video: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-BBB9pD5NFeU.html
@@OffGridGarageAustralia War doch nur als Gag gemeint! Dein Video ist in Englisch und Oettinger exportiert ja auch. Oettingen ist nur 12km von mir weg.
Not sure I'd be relying on these single frequency testers to tell you much you don't already know by simply using a battery. Battery internal impedance is variable depending on the test conditions, e.g. the frequency of the test AC signal, state of charge and load condition. Testing should be done across many orders of magnitude range of frequencies to see how the impedance response varies. The resulting shape of the curve of impedance v frequency can imply different states of battery health. A battery might seem in spec at 1kHz but what about at 1-10Hz? In any case, the best indicator of battery health is capacity testing.
@@OffGridGarageAustralia Perhaps not. I wonder if a single frequency test is a case of the old maxim; "not everything measured matters". That said, I'm pretty sure measuring the variable frequency of beer consumption is entirely doable in Andy's garage ;)
Morning Andy, tr1035 four wire tester yes? I said that. Before you started. The calibration technician in me. Standard 1khz 1 volt remember it well. I love this show Andy alway fun enjoy the beers.
