Hey everyone. This video’s a little messy, both in terms of the edit, and in terms of writing. That’s partially because I wanted to get this out fast - this wasn’t supposed to be the next upload, and making it has put me behind on other stuff - but also partially because making this video put me in a pretty negative, angry state, and that’s a state I didn’t want to linger in. That’s also the reason I’ve not gone through and ‘chaptered’ this video anymore. The events of the past few days around Kenobi, the fan response, and Moses Ingram, have been sickening to witness, and I think everyone in the Star Wars community needs to look with a critical eye toward the discussions they’re having, and the discourse they’re engaging with. The culture needs to change, and we all need to push that change forward.
I think the people reading the headlines, or watching these videos, already agree with you. I don't think the people doing this will change because of the headlines, or because they watch some video. They simply don't care. They will just laugh. They are trolls and A-holes that love the attention. They exist to get a rise out of you. This is what they want.
Or, and now hear me out here, let it die. It’s Disney now in control, like basically Satan’s publishing house…let it die folks…more to life than SW and all this mass produced garbage media. If community is that bad? Let it burn, and move on.
When fighting fire with fire, both fires burn out. Try water or smothering tactics. A cold shoulder affects people more than a hot temper. stay strong and patient, piece will win.
As a mixed guy, Finn was the biggest wasted opportunity of the sequel trilogy and I think that's what some people get at regarding some of the comments because Disney downplayed him probably for certain countries. So that gets put on Disney that this is also to deflect from their past actions
All Disney care about is money from the Chinese. And that’s a problem that permeates all of the entertainment industry and western society as a whole. You saw it with John Cena’s Taiwan debacle and with the western governments’ refusal to even recognise the awful discrimination against the Muslims in China. I ended up researching about it for some reason, and it was even worse than I thought.
Yeah I mean two things can be true at the same time. Disney trying harder after what the did with John Boyega and Racists using that as an excuse to call any Black actor a “diversity hire” even though they’d feel that way regardless
@@user-tf7pr6tc5k Funny, I didn't hear squat about Mace Windu or Lando Carlisean in the decade prior to the sequels. So it's funny how NOW fans are racist because of the reception to Finn.
@@DemonicRemption Finn was promising. Lando and Mace always were supporting characters. But for a while Finn was a main character, with a good background, maybe even going toward a relation with Rey. It didn't take more to make the racists go crazy. They are fine as long as the minority remain as a support characters and no more than one. One black person (Lando first trilogy, Mace prequel), one woman (Leia first trilogy, Padme prequel), supporting the main character who is a white man, then they can pretend they are not racist. But add more people of diversity, give them more developped roles than the supporting role and they go crazy.
@@DemonicRemption Yeah because before we didn't have mass media reporting on the biggest franchises for every single discourse there is among the fandom. But now we do, so the fact that you didn't hear from it doesn't mean it didn't happen dumbass. And no, they didn't say the fans were racist BECAUSE of the RECEPTION to FINN, he was admittedly a bad underplayed character and that's been pretty clear, so Idk what world you're living in where you read whatever you want to hear.
In the part of the community I frequent, it's a slightly more cynical take. That the writing is bad and they use the diversity as a shield to deflect criticism. The real reason you don't like the sequel trilogy and its characters isn't the flat characterization and wasted potential, it's because you're automatically racist or sexist for not liking the characters.
Fins character actually enraged me. Not because of him or who he was playing. But how they butchered his character in the story. They take the person with arguably the best potential for such deep character development and story telling with him being a former storm trooper. Like when he took off the helmet and you could tell he is terrified, not wanting to do his work any more, it gave me chills. But then.. he was just.. thrown into a garbage called comedic relief. That’s sad. For his character. Honestly, Ik it probably won’t happen. RIP. But I would absolutely love a complete retcon of the sequel story, focused on development. Not forced, not sped, not any at all. But actual human believable character development. What ties us, and all of start wars’ loving fans to Star Wars are the characters in it, and how ‘human’ they are, they can be, or aren’t. Good story telling… I miss it.
No argument here, I thought the idea of a "conscientious objector" storm trooper was a great idea, and possibly the best thing in Star Wars ever. Seeing him holding a lightsaber in promotional material suggested he was also discover he had force sensitivity also gave me hope for a great story. Instead, we got, "hey, let's do the death star again!" I don't care about diversity or the lack thereof, I don't need a character to look like me to identify or root for them. I care about good writing, good stories, and strong characters.
It's ironic they are using Finn and Rose as examples when they freaking HATED Finn and Rose as "diversity hires." I'm surprised they didn't include Chewbacca if they are using a Tusken.
@@vitus6302 How do you know? Why couldn't it have simply been the writing? It's not like he was given much to do but comic relief after the first film. Of course, Rose was given even less. But none of this matters, because whether or not you had a problem with either of them doesn't erase that a very vocal group of people did have a problem with both of them because of "diversity."
@@timothythomad5529 it was definitely the casting that painted them into a corner. Rey was becoming unpopular by the second film with a large portion of the fan base. If Finn had been cast with a white or at least half white actor he could have been revealed as Luke’s son and (almost?) everybody would have been happy for at least one Skywalker to survive the sequels. At least Luke’s legacy would still continue. But with Boyega not being white at all Finn never had the chance to be revealed as Luke’s son.
Ewan McGregor literally said that no one racist is a true fan of star wars... if Obi-wan doesn't see you as a fan, you're doing something wrong. EDIT: 1.3k?! Why?!
I think there's something tragic about these peoples' complete inability to learn from how badly Jake Lloyd and Ahmed Best were harrassed for years. Complete lack of self awareness.
Yeah, the harassment that happened in the wake of the prequels wasn't racially motivated the same way the new wave is, but is still way too vitriolic and makes me want to call myself only a casual fan of the franchise at times. Meanwhile Ahmed Best hasn't let the haters drag him totally into the abyss and is now playing a Jedi master in a live action children's series and that warms my heart.
Ahmed Best was harassed by critics and journalists calling the character a racist caricature, so as it is now, then it was self righteous virtue signaling ass hats. And Jake Lloyd was just because he was a terrible actor and kid characters suck in movies anyway
@@VayaKahvi the new wave isn’t racially motivated now as well. There’s next to zero racism actually being thrown at her. She was calling fans racist weeks before literally any backlash existed. Pillars of garbage is an idiot for actually believing this rich privileged actress whose salty people didn’t like her character.
@@zzodysseuszz Well that's pillar of garbage's hustle. He's simply being contrarian to the popular opinion in an effort to differentiate his brand from it. No hating on him!
I like Reva's character, so far she's just someone trying to climb the corporate ladder, but it seems like she's got more going on, so I'm hoping it'll be good.
I have no problem with Reva. I actually liked her role personally. I just think people need to agree to disagree instead of getting pissy over details like race or sex
Disney doesn't care about diversity or equality or any of that. They care about money, and will suck everyone dry to get more if they can. The only reason you see them using more non-white characters is because they think they will make more money that way.
This video has finally proven to me that Star Wars is forever destroyed. Not by Lucasfilm or Disney or Kathleene Kenedy or J.J. Abrams or Rian Johnson. It is the shithole that is the Star Wars fandom. Thank you sir for confirming to me why I can no longer enjoy Star Wars
I'm a person of colour--proud of it--and I never looked at the characters of the OT and thought 'how come there isn't someone who looks like me up there?" I'm sure other POC would disagree, and that's okay--but as a kid, I never felt excluded from Star Wars because I wasn't white; at least not by the films. It was the fandom that made me feel excluded--this exact sort of back-handed racism and bigotry, this sense of entitlement and gatekeeping ruined my desire to engage with fandom. The original six films should have been more diverse sure--I'd kill to see someone from my mother's culture up there on the screen, but it was a product of its time, and now that western culture, in general, has changed in regards to diversity it's time to be more diverse, not less. When it comes to participating in anything with 'fans' these days, I'm out. Disney loses my $$s because I don't need to spend my time (and money) surrounded by a vocal segment of people trying to get me to believe whatever dregs of equality they're willing to give me should be enough and I should just shut up and be grateful for it. I have better ways to spend my time than being oppressed. So I think that if the hate in the fandom continunes--the reactionary racial revanchists who proudly trumpet their bigotry and hate under the flag of anti-woke cancel-cancel-culture will drive the rest out, and the franchise will die when only this angry minority/majority remains. It'll be sad, but I'll always remember Star Wars fondly, and to hell with those who stew in their hate. And to anyone wanting to come at me about my experiences and perceptions of these things, don't bother. I'm proud of who I am, where I come from, and what I've survived. Nothing you say will change the fact that I've seen oppression, and know what it looks like in intimate detail.
@KumisamaJez as a professional writer I applaud you staking out your own space and your own stories. Diversity is important not just in who portrays the story but also who writes the story. More voices are better because it gives the audience more options in how they perceive stories in general. Best of luck 🤞
Im a person of color who believes that the conversationalists who focus on all issues from the microscope of racism cause a microcosm such as racism ( I believe racism is dead, and Star Wars is dead to we’re just wallowing around in the casket floating in space wondering why nothing in “Star Wars” will change” to become as powerful as a nuke to those who struggle to perceive intent beyond color of skin.
He's not wrong both sides of the political spectrum need to quit inserting modern politics and crap into the show and movies. Disney needs to quit forcing political correctness into everything and right leaning fans and channels need to quit attacking new shows for every little thing just because it was made by Disney.
as a black star wars fan, i just wanna say thank you for making this video. it is so frustrating to constantly hear people talk like that or make similar comments. over the period of my life if i had a dollar for every time someone told me “well what about mace windu” id be rich.
@@vitus6302 i think you’re missing the point. black representation is cool yeah, but actors being attacked bc they are minorities just to be thrown bread crumbs and told to enjoy it is the problem. and just bc something isn’t black doesnt mean i can’t enjoy it. i’m also a huge nba fan and steve nash was one of my favorite players, who is a white dude from canada. but as a kid when you imagine yourself in the star wars lore, would you rather be lando or luke? i personally have never had a problem with it, but what i do have a problem with is people being attacked, like they’re not allowed to enjoy star wars too. and it’s nice to see people speak out about it.
@Stephen O'Brien well i don’t watch the nfl so i can’t speak on it but i do know there’s only 2 minority owners and only 5 minority coaches which i do hear people complain about that. and the nfl is primarily an american sport, so mainly americans play. i know people from other countries that have never even seen a game. as for the nba, they have 6 minority owners. and as the basketball is a global sport there’s more opportunity for people from around the world to be in the nba. in both cases there’s probably always gonna be a lack in diversity when it comes to ownership, but playing there’s quite a bit in the nba (could be better, i think rn there is only one asian player). but the last 3 mvps have been international players. and throughout the 75 years of the nba i can name a whole lot of hall of fame players/coaches that are white and black european etc. same could probably be said about the nfl minus the european. but in like 40 years of star wars and there have only been like 14 minority characters is striking. you can let me know if i’m wrong, but i’m not aware of anyone that is mad at star wars for the lack of diversity. they are just pointing out that through history there hasn’t been much and the woman who plays Reva is the first black woman character which is a big deal. just like jackie robinson playing in the majors, it just opens more opportunities for the next person. the complaint is when you have people attacking the people using race as a weapon, ie what ewan mcgregor spoke about. that shouldn’t happen. it’s the same as if Tyler Herro, who is an american white player in the nba who lead his team in scoring this year with like 20 points per game, had one bad game and people sent him death threats and told him he didn’t belong in the nba bc he’s white. that doesn’t happen, whereas in star wars it has happened.
@Stephen O'Brien listen dawg i don’t make up who is considered minority or not but to answer your question, over 90% of jewish americans classify themselves as white. i know the miami heat’s owner is jewish from israel and he was counted in that group of minority owners. to answer your other question, the nba and the nfl and such are considered diverse institutions bc white people make up the majority of the US therefore even if they aren’t the majority in things like nfl and nba they still make up large numbers of industries surrounding those fields. like coaching, owners, front office, media, advertising, and such. so if that group doesn’t have majority players, who cares bc that group is still the majority of lots of other things by number. 80% of sports media is white, 66% of all pro coaches are white. again, i don’t have a problem with those numbers bc universally things are becoming more diverse. the problem he points out in the video is the people that are outwardly racist to people who have nothing to do with the reason they were casted for the roles or not. that’s the issue that’s being addressed. representation has nothing to do with people throughout the years being harassed bc of race or gender by a group of people who don’t like the characters they play. i’m/he’s not saying you have to like the characters or the actors bc that’s well in your right as a fan. but for the people that are harassing the actors, that’s not okay.
Thankfully I've learned to just talk Star Wars with people who are already my friends. This was a fantastic take-down and it was cathartic to watch it! I do think there are more actual fans than the toxic assholes we see but the toxic people are so loud most just mind their own business.
Star Wars fans are fans. Just because we support George Lucas and Dave Filoni but think the rest of it is utter garbage does not make us toxic or bigots. I hate Kenobi and Darth Vader in the Kenobi series too not just Reva. The whole show is garbage to me. I still like the REAL Kenobi and Vader when written by good writers and I probably would like Reva too if she had a good writer. But this is all we have to go off of and I think that it is fair to say that in this series she is being written as emotionally unstable and really just unlikable. Plus she is not even consistently written since she did not kill Haja when she clearly would have if the writers had not wanted to keep him alive. And why didn’t she force probe Uncle Owen’s mind to know where Kenobi was if she could have done that. The Inquisitors should have lined up EVERYONE in Anchorhead and had Reva probe their minds until she found someone who knew something or at least knew someone who knew someone who knew something. Surely fellow coworkers lived there and would have memories of Kenobi and it all would have been so much simpler than kidnapping Leia. And not sending bounty hunters rather than Kenobi who everyone wants to kill after Leia makes no sense either. He puts her in even more danger. The show just is so inconsistent and poorly thought out. Compare Vader reuniting with Kenobi to him reuniting with Ahsoka in Rebels. That scene was so much more emotional, the dialogue and lines were excellently delivered and as memorable as the Mustafar battle to me. This Kenobi series had forgettable lines and a Vader who seemed pretty at ease for coming face to face with the source of the hatred that has fueled him and kept him alive all of these years. Watch SC-38 for how I think Vader should have fought Kenobi in this fight. But Kenobi could not have withstood that because they made him a coward who runs away from families literally being killed. That’s not Kenobi. This isn’t my Kenobi or my Vader so Reva is probably great if written by Dave Filoni but sadly this was her first impression. Sad for Rey, Finn, and Poe too. A whole lot of bad writing by non fans who don’t get what makes the Star Wars 6 film Saga plus the Clone Wars and Rebels great. The heart and soul of the creator is purely devoted to honoring and continuing the source material and bringing it to life to the best of their abilities. J.J. knew the originals and wanted to retell them with a twist. Rian was the subversion king and he believed the fans needed to move on and forget everything that they loved and unsurprisingly they refused to do that. Then J.J. came back after Trevorrow had a great script for episode 9 and chose to have the last laugh and undo what Rian did and it all was the worse for it. It is all garbage. Finn was the BEST character of that Sequel trilogy and most “toxic” fans agree. He just never had a chance thanks to Disney wanting to shrink him on the poster and limit the onscreen time for a black man because Chinese money was more important than Black characters in Star Wars. So now they come here and tout a black character like we are supposed to thank Disney when these are the people who covered Chadwick Boseman’s face for the Chinese Black Panther posters. They make themselves out to be these dutiful saviors for minorities and call others who dare to speak out against them bigots against minorities but no one has been more bigoted than Disney against minorities. They just distract from it by blaming the fans. Who are just passionate and want to see a great story told from their beloved franchise rather than half baked crap that will satiate the need for a lightsaber or blaster but won’t carry on the legacy of the franchise in a compelling and satisfying fashion.
It's better to do that. The internet is filled with a lot of radical and toxic Star Wars fans on every side of the fandom unfortunately. The normal fans all mostly seem to be at Celebration and fan conventions.
@@night6724 What does that have to do with anything I said. The fanbase is toxic on the internet. As regards to those characters I think they are just fine but forgettable.
With respect to the original trilogy, technically you missed James Earl Jones who voiced Darth Vader. We never actually seem him in the flesh though. Anyway, point well taken.
I suppose. Then again he's also technically played by David Prowse and Sebastian Shaw. But I guess James Earl Jones is the person who tends to come to mind
there's a problem with Sci-Fi in general where "Aliens" fill in the 'diverse' role, Star Trek at least dares to be different but still has as history with this trope.
And the first Star Trek was a failure. I think it lasted only 3 seasons. Strong cult following though. The TNG and DS9 saved the franchise..... and the Wrath of Kahn.
@Marcquise White I think you missed his point he’s saying that they’re using aliens to make up for the lack of poc in the genre when making aliens the “diversity” isn’t the solution.
@@jasonito23 My stepfather complained when Star Trek Voyager came out and had a black Vulcan. I told him that wasn't the planet Vulcan wasn't like 3 times the size of Earth, so shouldn't it actually have more diversity than Earth?
@@hikaru._.4284 Yeah. Especially when the coded aliens are the only members of a minority seen. A recent example I can give you, whilst not race related, is Steven Universe with LGBTQIA plus characters. Up until Future, these characters (Pearl, Ruby and Sapphire, Fluorite, Stevonnie and pretty much all of Steven's fusions) were the only lgbtplus and/or non binary characters and, until Steven Universe Future, there were no human ones.
As a black SW fan I just feel disappointed that Reeva seems to be written poorly. People have told me she's really deep in the comics but I just don't see it on screen yet. Imo she just gives off more of the angry black woman stereotype and they didn't explain why she hates the Jedi so much properly (which could still be filled out in later episodes). But D+ needs to do better with her character cause the last 2 major SW black characters have been written so badly. See what they did to Fin in the new trilogy? Didn't even deliver on the promise his character had in FA. Furthermore I think Disney are the real racists in this whole story cause I saw with my own eyes how they made JB small for the poster of their overlord sugar daddies China and put CB's helmet on for BP so they didn't have to see his black face. If Disney were the real advocates of diversity they claim they are then why didn't they stand up for their black actors and refuse to show the movies in China? And why did JB criticise them and call them racist? Seems to me Disney is fully aware of the nightmare PR situation they have on their hands and is fully ready to gaslight fans by calling them racist in order to divert attention in some sort of blame game. They can't lose cause if the show is a hit Disney will be praised for it's diversity and if it flops you blame it on the "racist" fans. I also don't believe that a small extremist minority of fans represents the majority of peaceful SW fans. That's just my two cents.
As a black POC, I was so worried when I first saw this vid pop up because the algorithm usually gives me a mix of good takes and terrible takes. High quality content, thank you so much
@@the_pentah00k58 that's exactly what I mean. I saw the title and thought it would open with something like "trick question, there is no racism problem," and then it just goes into a tirade about how "woke activists" are trying to destroy Star Wars and tbh I just didn't want that energy in my life 😂
As a black person I know that feeling... It's the same feeling I get when someone asks, "if you could go to any point in time in history wh-..." and I interrupt with, "none cuz they all suck for me." It's equivalent... Finding a SW that doesn't include a racist or racist adjacent comment or commentor trying to stir the pot specifically at and/or with me because their feelings are or super delicate over a fictional story, or because I think its nice to some who looks somewhat similar to me in a piece of sci fi fantasy. It's like werw not sllowed to have fun, unless it makes them feel comfortable first, and always at the risk of making poc or anyone they deem unworthy feel uncomfortable. Its also weird how these people feel their entitled to an answer and will harass you even when you say, you want no part of their b.s.. Ignoring them only emboldens them to pick on the quiet people. Something needs to be done other than ignoring them.
You know why they write characters like Reva this way? White people have absolutely NO IDEA how to write a black woman. Why don't you hire actual black WOMEN like Issa Rae or Shondra Rhimes? That's the common denominator in all these sci-fi and comic book shows. They never actually imagined black women in these universes and then Tyler Perry made billions and a studio - only then did they realize they missed a giant market but its too late.
@@connectivitytissues1429 there are a lot of places in ANCIENT history you could go as a black person that would be great. The Ancient World was incredibly connected and some places even had plumbing, if you're amab, Rome is a pretty good option; if you're afab Egypt might also be a good place if memory serves.* *I currently have a fever so I may be misremembering this. But yes something needs to be done besides ignoring them. The entirety of the star wars community (the "decent" part, at least) needs to make this a space that's fundamentally unwelcome for racists, sexists, queerphobes, etc. broadly.
Can I just say, honorable mention to James Earl Jones, tho never on screen, he is a person of color casted in…A Lot of Star Wars media, because obviously.
This reminds me of the selective interpretation of interviews from Brie Larson and Jodie Whittaker. There's simply no way to "model minority" our way through this battlefield without hitting big landmines.
Yeah, I really hate how many people blamed Jodie for the 13th doctor being trash and having trash stories. She did her best, it’s clear, it’s just that Chris Chibnal is a shit writer, his older Doctor Who episodes were already some of the worst of their eras, and we can see Jodie occasionally really being The Doctor at points, however rarely, when accompanied by the rare bits of half-decent writing
Jodie was bad writing 100% due to Chris Chibnall being exceedingly inferior to Moffat in every sense of the word writing-wise, but Brie has more of an insufferable actress problem, even according to co-stars who gained nothing by saying so. I truly was on the side of the "If you hate captain marvel, you are scared of strong women" camp before realizing she's just not good. Yes marvel shoehorned her in harder than any other character ever in the MCU, and yes the writing and pacing for her solo movie weren't amazing, but neither were Thor's originally, and he had a bigger character arc with actual development that made you feel something, whereas she started an OP asshole, and ended an OP asshole with no struggles whatsoever. Brie Larson as a side note comes off as extremely snide, condescending, and mean spirited in literally every interview I have ever watched her in, which is many lol. But yeah, damned if you do, damned if you don't. Give equal opportunities to anyone and everyone if they are qualified and fit the vibe of the movie, point blank period. Don't force diversity, and don't force segregation.
Side note: the Redditor could’ve replaced the Tuscan Raider pic with Oscar Issac (Poe). If they were going to be racist they could’ve at least put all of the actors not of pure European heritage in the collage **shrugs** Sorry, the Oscar Issac pic omission from the Reddit collage annoyed me. I know it’s stupid but I can’t help it.
@Stephen O'Brien FWIW, Oscar defines himself that way...he only chose "Oscar Issac" as his screen actor name because he didn't think he'd get any work if he used his real name "Óscar Isaac Hernández Estrada", he even spoke about it in his monologue for SNL a few months ago when he talks abut being borne in Guatemala and moving to the US as a kid. But it also goes to show that the person who made that collage didn't really care to understand the actors and just lumped someone with the name "Oscar Issac" in the "white" category but threw Pedro Pascal in as "Non-White" based on his names despite him playing several "white" characters in movies.
Spain and Portugal are in Europe, and that's where the ancestors of the Hispanic people came from. If the definition of White is European, then Oscar Isaac, Pedro Pascal, and all Hispanic people should be considered White.
There is also Armed Best and Captain Typho. If someone is going to create a collage to present a horribly bad faith argument they can at least put the effort in.
Knowing that this video will probably cost you current and future subs, I wanted to say that i'm sorry you felt you had to make this video and thank u for doing it. This means so much for so many people.
It’s incredibly frustrating that history continues to repeat itself with this, in every fandom. Star Wars is obviously the worst offender, but Marvel “fans”, Percy Jackson “fans”, and just general film “fans” are quickly catching up. It’s so incredibly disheartening.
I’ve been seeing that too for Marvel. It’s incredibly infuriating to see stuff like Ms. Marvel, She Hulk, Thor Love and Thunder, and so many others being called “Woke trash” just because it has women or people of color as the main characters. These people should just be open about their sexism and racism instead of trying to mask it under them fighting against “the woke agenda”
@@ramon6567 I thought Thor 4 looked alright, but I hope they don’t ruin Thor’s character in it. As for She-Hulk, it just looked kinda cringey, the CGI did not look great, and I didn’t get why she went into the gamma chamber in the first place? Maybe you could help me with that. Haven’t seen anything about Ms Marvel. I don’t generally like stuff with a younger pov as much as I used to, but I just flat-out have heard basically nothing about it. Also, I’d like to note how many dissect the new Marvel films with all their plot holes/inconsistencies and conveniences and blame it on the woke characters, when such things are something that plagued the earlier films as well.
@@I_Cant_Hear_You_ Idk what origins they’re using for the mcu but she-hulk in the comics became she-hulk because she had a rare blood type that happened to be shared with her cousin the Hulk and so she got a blood transfusion to save her life from him not knowing he was the hulk.
3:30, one of whom did nothing, bail organa was a founding member of the rebel alliance in the movies and in games like the force unleashed, raised princes leia for her future role in the original trilogy. And in the prequels supported padmes side on the chancellors over reach of power. Remove him and the Star Wars mythos is heavily altered Edit: also helped save Yoda by helping him escape the senate building after he lost to Sideous
And much of that is informed, rather than events off-screen. Pointing at a minor character who's barely in the movies and going "but this novel said he did all this stuff too" isn't the big win you seem to think it is.
@@N0-1_H3r3 wdym off screen, in rots extended scenes/ deleted bail helps form the rebel aliance. And the rest is directly shown, the only thing on here that's less solid is founding the rebel alliance. Everything else he did had a effect on the Star Wars trilogy, raising leia in the senator environment causes episode 4 to happen. And man saved Yoda, which without that episode 5 wouldn't happen
@@TheNightsVengeance how much screen time did he get, how many people do you think will see his face and know his name or remember what he did without using the internet to find out... What point did you have again? He did things? Oh yeah
@@ZzIAmNOTLegendzZ I mean the things he did had affects on the galaxy. If he didn't exist how would Yoda escape the senate chamber? He wouldn't, Bail was the only one the Jedi trusted. He was trusted enough to know the location of Luke and Leia, one of whom he adopted and raised. This ain't using the internet it's called following the story the movies made.
The original trilogy had maybe 8 principal human characters: Luke, Han, Leia, Obi Wan, Lando, Vader, Palpatine and some will count Tarkin. So 1 out of 8 is a POC. And Vader, while physically played by David Prowse, is voiced by one of the most prominent African American actors of all time (he was chosen over Orson Wells for the role). The vast majority of background characters and a few leads were either robots or aliens (or covered up, like Boba Fett). The Empire was a stand in for fascists or a proxy for the Germany of the 30s/40s, and were heavy on being anti alien and anti diverse. As sad as it seems it makes sense to me that fewer POC existed at that point in time or were afraid to show themselves. And Lando was not thrown in to be a token either. He wasn’t portrayed as some kind of minstrel or stereotype character. He was strong and complex.
C3P0 was a robot voiced by a white man, both Chewbacca's voice actor and body suit actor were white, the ewoks were mostly white dwarves (Warrick Davis being the most prominent). Sandpeople, white. Greedo, white. Jabba, white. Every imperial commander that got choked out by Vader, white.
I agree with your point so don't get me wrong but the "Empire was racist" concept is just a common inference because they resemble Nazis, they never confirmed that in canon and certainly not in the films, as far as I know, they're anti-alien but mostly just evil in general.
@@ericktellez7632 they're called Storm Troopers.... 🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️ Just look up where that name came from. The Battle of Endor is based on Vietnam. But the Empire itself is modeled after the Third Reich.
@@alexmote6779 I've never seen a RU-vid comment so logical before. All of these arguments; hell, most political arguments that I've seen come from misunderstanding of others viewpoints; and their lack of attempted understanding of each other.
I would argue that the star wars community has an overall toxicity problem instead of a racism problem. As a starwars fan myself, I would say the fans show intense hate and love for the franchise's actors regardless of their skin color. Like how Jake Lloyd, Hayden Christensen and Ashley Eckstein all got major hate despite being white. While Samuel Jackson, Rosario Dawson and Giancarlo Esposito got virtually no hate despite being nonwhite. I'm not trying to excuse the toxic behavior though, Jake Lloyd developed schizophrenia and Ahmed Best almost committed suicide because of the harassment they received. If you don't like certain characters or don't like Lucasfilm prioritizing diversity that's fine, just don't go harass the actors who did nothing wrong.
To be honest, the only character I disliked was the Jar Jar Binks character. He was annoying, but that's the only one. I am open-minded, but Jar Jar sounded as annoying AF. There is a race problem, though, because people used racist language against Kelly Tran, who is Asian, and also Moses Ingram. I don't know if Mace Windu received such messages. Dude, people have said racist things about Mace Windu, as well. It's just not as well-known. I've seen someone call him "Ape Windu". These people aren't fans anyway. They just call themselves that. It's insulting for me for them to be called fans.
@@QUINTUSMAXIMUS All SW fans I know realy like Windu and see him and Lando one of the better characters. And I have not really noticed that toxicity but maybe that is cause my circle is small one
@@QUINTUSMAXIMUS Jar Jar was supposed to be annoying that's part of his character. Some of these fans seem to have hard time separating the character from the actor. Ahmad Best did not deserve the hate he got for playing the character the way he was written. That would be like cyber bullying Jack Gleeson because you think Joffrey Baratheon is an asshole.
I’ve been seeing that too for Marvel. It’s incredibly infuriating to see stuff like Ms. Marvel, She Hulk, Thor Love and Thunder, and so many others being called “Woke trash” just because it has women or people of color as the main characters. These people should just be open about their sexism and racism instead of trying to mask it under them fighting against “the woke agenda”
if i saw people complaining about women or poc in said films I would definitely agree but no i haven't seen anyone complain about the main characters being women or poc even the anti-sjw RU-vidrs arent even saying that or at least most of them but their going to be looking for these "woke" moments and make videos about them
@@drrd4127 Tell me about it, I'm a black guy who is a writer, and such hand-me-downs are inexcusible... Hell Black Panther broke box office records. So why TF aren't Monica Rambeau, Luke Cage, and Falcon given the same treatment? Actually I know why. Back in the 60s in order for a black led series to be successful, the character(s) had to be seen as "harmless" by white audiences. I'm led to think this means characters had to be able to be understood by the audience. And I think that's why we're getting these hand-me-downs because they're safe and not hard to understand.
@@drrd4127 If you’re calling She-Hulk, Ms. Marvel, and Jane Foster Thor hand-me-downs when they were characters with their own lore and backstories, I don’t think you know what a hand-me-down is.
To the mostly white, mostly male, mostly straight vanguard of a lot of geek culture (Star Wars and beyond), a bedrock principle of their world understanding seems to be that there are only two types of art, which I would call creations and agends. Pieces of art about straight, white dudes (i.e. the majority of the fanbase) are creations, existing in a vacuum of expression insulated from any relation to the world and culture, the true, raw, genuine product of human creativity. Pieces of art about ANYONE else are agendas, bad faith attacks on the very idea of art itself, attempts to destroy the purity of expression by making it about.........something bad, we don't really know, it changes a lot. When someone remarks on the political/social implications of a story about a white guy, out they come telling us to "stop bringing politics into it" and "just enjoy the story" because "it's just make believe escapist entertainment." When a person of color has the temerity to be seen on a camera, you don't even have to mention the political/social aspect because they're already throwing up billboards about how "they" are "pushing their agenda on us" and "had to make it political." Art about white people is art. Art about anyone else isn't allowed, isn't qualified to be make believe escapist entertainment. We aren't allowed to "just enjoy the story" when it's about, say, a Black woman. Thank you for this video! It's important that the BS is named and called out at every possible opportunity.
The toxic fandom of Star Wars has ruined this property for me more than Disney ever could. I can’t be the only one. I like some of the movies over the years and most of the Disney plus content.
True, especially how they gaslight non white fans who call them out and say "ohh Disney doesn't want us to critique their shows and movies". Not only that, but they also immediately say "oh this is just another diversity hire". Like God damn, give them a fuckin chance.
People shouldn't care about diversity in stories. It's just a skin tone, nothing to cry over. Speaking as a black guy I am sick and tired of having my skin tone put out as a reason to buy something. People are sick and tired of being preached at like children. The only reason that Reva is in this is to pander. Not because she is an interesting character.
So other people of colour aren’t allowed to be happy when historically white franchises gain more opportunities for people like them? Because that’s all that’s going on in Moses’ interview - at least before it was hijacked by toxic Star Wars ‘fans’.
@@PillarofGarbage I'm not saying that. But some of us are a bit sick of having this push for "diversity" up in our grill ever time someone of color is on the main screen. If it is to be praised it should come organically from the fan base itself and not pushed by the company. I am all for having poeple of color in media, like the Mandolorian. Notice how in that case they didn't push diversity at all in that and the fan base loves pretty much all of the characters in it. No need for warning for racism or anything like that. Well, until Gina Carano was falsely accused of it.
@@Peasham aight fair enough. But I stand by what I said. We don't need every person of color to be a special occasion every time they step on screen. It should just be normal at this point.
@@joshuahicks7798Reva being black had NOTHING to do with her character in the show. The people who made it brought up her race was “anti woke” people complaining. Jesus people like you are insufferable and pretend to want good writing but really just want no positive progression in media
In the books, racism, or its galactic equivalent, was the Empire’s primary sin. Humans thought they were superior and should be in charge, that all the alien races were inferior and needed guidance. Something wiped out of existence for this new, much more boring version of the universe. Whatever.
that was all cause palpatine was extremely xenophobic. luckily the new post new republic empire is much better with being more fair and equal and allowing any species other than humans to join positions in the government and military.
I would agree if not for your latter statement. Legends content is just as easy, if not literally easier to access now than it ever has been in the past. They literally are constantly re-releasing Legends content (and lil snippets of new Legends content if you know where to look!) and huge swathes of Legends content have already been recanonized or referenced in current material. Even then, if you took the time to read some of the newer Star Wars books, you'd realize this facet hasn't changed. The Empire always was and always will be a human supremacist, alien hating machine. It has been that way since the original movies, and it won't ever go away even if pretending Disney wiped it all away makes you think so.
What does this have to do with the video?? You’re referencing an in-universe parallel to racism, only to make some vague comment about how “boring” the new canon content is. Meanwhile, the video is about actual racism both behind the camera and in the fandom.
@@TheManBehindTheSlaughter6669 no, it wasn’t. Palpatine actually was more progressive than any of them and didn’t care for the Xenophobia. He just was willing to let it roll to keep control. Everyone in the empire hated Aliens because of the clone wars. But Palpatine was BEHIND the clone war. Why would he be about that energy? Dude made Thrawn, a blue, red eyed , autistic alien from a place NOBODY knows the location of… the position of GRAND FUCKING ADMIRAL.
I'm pretty sure the average Star Wars fans ain't racist, especially if you consider the fact that the whole francise, other than just the movies are very racially diverse, with significant number of important non white characters
@@enterurnamehere27 i think they are, the fanbase includes a lot of angsty white and asian nerds who are already biased against POC and that affects their opinion before anything else.
@@enterurnamehere27 Very true dont forget that a large amount of star wars fans or colored people. I live in an area with mainly colored people and almost all of us like star wars. I wonder where the racism comes from.
fans seem so incapable of accepting bullies and racists are part of the fandom "we dont hate the actors just the characters and writting", but multiple actors that have spoken up about the hate theyve specifically recieved from sw fans, "its just a few people", but that ignores the scale to which the actors have been affected and their own testimonies of overwhelming harrassment + the big platforms that are given to those hateful people
because its simply a vocal minority and saying "we dont hate the actors just the characters and writing" isnt them accepting racists and most sw fans arent sending death threats to people so its literally a few people
@@handsomeboi3767 oh for sure, star wars has a huge fanbase, many of who are grown people and kids that just dont engage on social media drama or dont care, but as i said big fandom, the 1% of them is still thousands of people and they are indeed very vocal, they boost each other, they spread their ideas and thrive of the attention, and sure sw fans are not opening their arms with acceptance and saying "just let the racists do their thing" but they are also not doing anything to stop them, instead they are diminishing the impact these people have treating them like a small nuisance and ignoring what actors have been saying over and over again, like these ppl have caused actual psychological terror and issues on the cast
@@pamela-623 dude this is the internet and most sws fan either dont know or have something better to do with their time so their not going make a post saying "toxic fans stop bullying the actors" and even if they did it wont stop, literally all it would do is acknowledge their existence and the toxic pricks literally wouldn't care or stop their attacks. and yeah they do boost each other but their still a small minority, their kind of like the today's alt right or sjws you think there's a lot of them since they are always spewing shit on the internet and on the news but there's at best a couple thousand of them but the only difference between them and the alt right is that there's probably more toxic star wars fan.
Why is this even a problem? It’s a movie about space people, diversity shouldn’t be forced into it. Mace Windu had one of the most important roles, without Lando, Han would’ve died.
It's a problem because it denies actors of color from getting roles in their favorite franchise, and POC fans from seeing themselves represented in their favorite franchise. You also seem to be implying that the Star Wars Galaxy should just be made up almost exclusively of white people.
@@adrianrammirez What specifically makes her character bad in terms of writing. Because a lot of people mistake being Awkward and over the top with bad writing and not just a character being a weird person.
@@UncleQuille1 she’s just trash, she’s obsessed with Obi wan, somehow knows Vader is a Anakin, does horrible shit without any reason, and feels like she should gain what she’s owed when she has done nothing that would show she should. It’s not the actresses fault but the writing is ass so people not liking her is VERY justified
Why have the character go in a Parkour Adventure if it was leading nowhere? Very bad writers. Kennedy's fans are trying to make this about race and feminism, this is not true. I dont like Reva and Rey but I love Ahsoka Tano, she is probably my favorite character. What is long overdue is Kathleen Kennedy's time in Star Wars.
@@UncleQuille1 The name of the show is Kenobi so it should closely examine Obi Wan's arc and what he did in his time on Tatooine. Reva has done a lot of crap in the first two episodes, first, it seems to establish her as the main villain when it should really be the Grand Inquisitor or Darth Vader, not some inquisitor. She also somehow kills the Grand Inquisitor in a couple seconds when two jedi in Rebels could never accomplish for a long time. It takes away from that moment and also ruins the entire plot since the Grand Inquisitor was supposed to be alive in Rebels. he also had a much more redeeming death in Rebels. Secondly, the show focuses too much on Reva since she is almost a side villain, as much authority as the other inquisitors. Instead it gives her too much screen time, examines her initial qualities, and will probably create her own arc. People are here for Vader and Obi Wan and Reva, being kinda annoying, is kinda pointless. It also retcons the original trilogy, like the Darth Vader Obi Wan fight. I may be speaking too soon but we will see
Let me give you a flow line: Disney makes a poorly written show > they added poorly written characters in it > they make said poorly written characters diverse in someway > fans complain about shitty writing > writer/producers say the fans only hate it because the character is diverse and they're racist > Profit? I shouldn't have to say racism is bad, but constantly calling each other racist over criticism of a show/movie is making the word lose meaning. Maybe use it a little more sparingly? Besides, in the context of this post, she's the one who brought it up.
Except for the fact that fans are also including racism in their criticisms? The actress is literally getting hate comments about her CHARACTER, and as show by her instagram stories she’s been attacked for her race and been called racial slurs. So, racism is definitely a huge part of it.
‘she’s the one who brought it up’ …your argument is that, because Moses brought up the topic of race, this torrent of racist abuse against her is justified? Jesus, that’s stupid.
@@PillarofGarbage Wow you love putting words in people's mouths. Of course, it isn't justified. But we're talking about an actor who gets to be in STAR WARS. She should know that being in such a high-profile role is going to get more attention which also means more mean sometimes racist comments. Complaining about it is hardly professional in this context.
Well, they are actively hurting their profits. People want to see white male actors as main characters in Star Wars. And not just in the past era like Kenobi but even going post TROS. So anytime they make a conscious decision like this they have to announce it so that the few people that care about it can rally some support.
I don’t think the race of the characters matters as long as the story is good. If anything Star Wars should start branching out to having alien leads seeing how it takes place in the stars. But since people complain about the importance of the POC characters I’d argue that for being side characters they have some of the most important roles or are some of the most powerful characters. 1. Lando was the head of cloud city a pretty powerful position, then he lead the attack and destroyed the second Death Star. 2. Mace windu was one of the most powerful Jedi masters, lead the mission to geonosis, and defeated darth sidious. 3. Jango fett defeated numerous Jedi while being a normal human and was chosen as the clone template because of his ability to kill Jedi well. His clones also went on to kill a majority of the Jedi and were integral to the formation of the empire. So at the end of my rant I’ll say that Star Wars shouldn’t be about race I’m tired of seeing real world politics brought into the fictional shows and movies I watch.
Sure, on paper what those characters did seems important but when you look at how they are actually depicted on screen, the roles of the POC actors were minor. Lando was a huge side character in Empire Strikes Back but in Return of The Jedi, his screentime and presence in the movie essentially reduced him to a minor side character. Jango was literally killed in the same movie that we saw him appear in and we only saw the actor's face once in Revenge of The Sith. He could've been replaced by any other actor or had his helmet on in Revenge of The Sith and no one would notice. Mace is the only one whose role in the story and presence on screen actually match up. Not to mention the fact that having those be the only three somewhat important POC characters in the original six movies (compared to the wealth of important white characters) goes to show the problems that this franchise has with representing POC. Having more diversity shouldn't be about politics; it should just be the decent thing to do, especially when a significant portion of the fanbase is not white.
@@wayothefro3249 does that really matter? skin color doesn't matter as long as the story is good is what matters people just need to act normal again and stop worrying about skin color
I'm going to be honest: I don't know the intent nor the angle by which Ingram made the post. I like to be the mediator that understands all sides of the spectrum and understand what's going on here, and to be honest, for the past week I've dreaded that the one show that I actually wanted to see was being shafted to no end for...less than favorable reasons. Is this a Diversity issue? No. I don't think that Star Wars EVER had a problem with Diversity. Its essence is meant to be a universal story that appeals to every background no matter who you are. And that is the problem with today's Star Wars. The pushback from this fanbase can seem like a cacophony of vileness and viciousness, and many would claim it's because of this repugnant argument of "diversity". In reality, I think that Diversity isn't the problem at all, and in fact, it's the idea that the Writing and Oversaturation of Star Wars content has become stale and has been stagnating. This doesn't help with the fact that there are RU-vidrs who constantly need to affirm themselves that "diversity" and "woke agendas" are the problem. In reality, the writing for Star Wars (as evidenced by the reception of the Sequel Trilogy), its Oversaturation of content within the past decade with some hits like The Mandalorian, Visions, and other media, as well as the mistreatment of legacy characters have led to dissent with the fandom who most likely GREW UP with all the movies and shows. You also mention something extremely disingenuous and that's the idea that the ONLY STAR WARS products with diverse characters were 6 movies between the time of 1977 and 2014. In that time, several games, comics, and 2 shows were released in the same time period, all with varying amounts of diverse characters and backgrounds that are still loved by their niche audiences TO THIS DAY. Diversity in Star Wars isn't also just about Human Characters, but Alien ones too, some of which like fan favorite and beloved Ahsoka Tano, are played by people of color. It wasn't until Disney acquired the license by which Star Wars EXPLODED with content within the past decade, and now nearly every year there is a Star Wars Live Action project of some kind. I understand that this post was meant to be a jab at Ingram, but I feel like the Lack of mentioning any other character from these other mediums made it sound like you were saying Diversity WAS NEVER in Star Wars save a few characters here and there that don't play major roles. What we are seeing now in this clusterfuck of a fanbase is the neglect of Star Wars' writing and its oversaturation bleeding into the public eye. Yes, there will be some absolute bangers like the Mandalorian and Rogue One and what not, but it doesn't change the public perception when the Sequel Trilogy exists, or The Book of Boba Fett, which mind you, was chastized by Temura himself akin to Mark Hamil not agreeing with Johnson's direction of Luke. It's turned into a cesspool of waring ideas of what Star Wars truly is. This isn't to say that there isn't bigotry. Of course, there's going to be, especially when people make this a political issue. And I feel like until there's that universal story and character that we can agree and respect again, or at least a good story that doesn't break the continuity of its own timeline (which is what many are pushing back with Kenobi now), this is the fate of this fucked franchise.
what i hate the most is the fanboys saying that moses isn’t actually experiencing racism from the fanbase and is only making it up in order for the show to gain more viewers.
As a lifelong star wars fan I've completely stopped watching any star wars related content on youtube precisely because of stuff like this every video i see is someone ranting about "wokeness" or how theres too many women lmao its so frustrating
yknow one of these days there’s going to be a trans woman like myself in one of these shows/films. it doesn’t take a genius to guess how this overwhelmingly reactionary fanbase will react to that. thanks for this video it was a really good breakdown
Person of colour here, I think you get too hung up on the diversity part, as opposed to the no people of colour part. I interpret this meme as... "No people of colour? Well, here are a bunch of people of colour." As opposed to... "There's always been diversity! Here's the wealth of diversity SW has had over the years!" Trolls will be trolls. We might argue that all these POC aren't major characters. They'll respond that we didn't specify they had to be major characters, only that POC had to be in it. You can't win. Trolls will be trolls. In the end, I see this as an attempt at comedy to gain views, not necessarily as racist narrative. Let me be clear, it's not particularly high-brow comedy. Like you, I don't like quotes being taken out of context (unless for comedic effect). And yeah, with the sheer number of these posts online, even benign ones get lost in the same sea.
As a longtime fan of Star Wars I can recognize the film are not very diverse ethnically for big full of aliens, it makes no sense that a Galaxy full of millions of alien races is mostly dominated by white Anglo-Saxon. Black folks in Star Wars are chocolate chips you get a few here.
As many said before, it got the point that I have harder time enjoying Star wars cause that whole part of the fandom (that sometimes feel a bit much larger that people like to admit). I cannot even actually be honest about my actual critiques of the shows cause I don't want to give that people more ammunition for their bigotry and hate.
You should always feel free to express your opinion. Honestly when some people say criticize of the show, some people call them racist at the drop of the hat. Look this in fandom fighting is a two way street. if you call someone who just does not like the show for a reason they feel justified that has nothing to do with racism, "racist", said person may feel more inclined to listen to more actual racists. Videos like this one paint a brush over anyone who dislikes series as racist which alienates fans who could care less about race but want better Star Wars material. Unfortunately I feel this video does not help you or anyone and just further digs trenches through Star Wars. Who wants to enjoy a show that either side of the political spectrum will fight over for whatever bullshit reason they find?
@@victorrosenheart8036 I never saw someone get called racist JUST for don't like a show or a character or a performance. I follow a lot of reviewers and the critique lot of things and nobody call them racist, cause they don't frame their critiques as is there are some "agenda" and are mostly consistent and will say the same stuff regardless of race, gender, etc. But if a person that is constantly talking about a "woke agenda" criticize a black/asian/lgtb/woman character/work, sadly I hardly can avoid wonder if they are being objectives.
It's all the more reason that these racist and misogynistic trolls need to be addressed, as they drown out any chance for a genuine conversation to happen about a show.
@@azdart I have seen it many time. People being unjustfuly judged. It happened to me, and many of the reviewers I watch. As for the concept of a "woke agenda" I feel that there are some people who do wish to sacrifice narrative quality, lore and older characters to prop up a more diverse one. To be honest I do not think any one would like Christians or any other religious or political group hounding their favorite settings to fit their ideals and more than "woke people". I have seen posts that straight glorify the destruction of older lore and characters to push one more diverse characters which sickens me. I do not wish my characters to be changed to fit others desires, a good explain of that happening is literally making Superman's Son gay, then killing Superman, now his gay son is Superman. How does that help the story and doesn't that just turn off fans who would want their hero to remain as he has for decades? Nothing is wrong with diverse characters as long as they are one new characters and two are not used as vehicles to wear away older ones. No one can prove a "woke agenda" and no one can prove a "toxic racist fandom"... And if you start screaming about one, it will only make the other more real. Negative feed back loops are a thing, which is why i said that this video will only make things worse...
@@sfitzmd No, it is as much a boogie man as the "woke agenda". We are being played for laughs as we burn down the settings that have been built for decades. Corporations wish to distill all narratives so they play both "sides" off each other until that work of art is not a but a meaningless label with no soul.
"The franchise's infamous history of having like 3 black people in 30 years." Lando Calrissian, Mace Windu, Bail Organa, Quarsh Panaka, Gregar Typho, Jolee Bindo, Adi Gallia, Stass Allie, Nick Rostu, Kar Vastor, Depa Billaba, Liane Trevval, Halagad Ventor, literally all of the Korunnai, Niall Declann, Jango Fett, Boba Fett, possibly Cassus Fett as he's an ancestor of Jango, literally the entire Clone Army, Rohlan Dyre and I'll update this list once I remember some more. Your move, Cowboy.
@@JuanPablo-su6vw I did, it was just "Look guys, I know Moses Ingram said this really stupid and ignorant thing in an interview, but she didn't actually mean this incredibly stupid and ignorant thing, ok?"
Dear Hollywood, can you just make a show that pleases all the races, genders, sexualities of the world and make the story good too? What impossible you say? Hollywood just replied back and said there will always be someone crying over not being represented. Hollywood should just worry about making good quality shows and worry less about pleasing the mobs.
Whenever I see stuff like this I immediately picture the "fan" to be some 40yr neckbeard with a princess leia and Ashoka body pillow all stained and crusted up. I don't get the point of attacking someone verbally because of a character they played, its honestly insane to do. I personally find her character alright, I prefer my main cast more but she is still a nice character.
@@michaelcraig537 If you have an issue with the character, should your frustration not be directed at the writer and director? Jake Lloyd didn't decide to make Anakin a ten year old, Hayden Christensen didn't decide to make Anakin a whiny brat. Both were George Lucas decisions, yet the actors caught the vast majority of the backlash. Ahmed Best didn't decide to make Jar-Jar...Jar-Jar, but he caught the shit for it. Don't like Reva? Direct that at the people who wrote the character, not the actress doing her job by playing the role she was given. As for being poorly acted, you're gonna have to elaborate on that. I don't particularly care about the character but I've yet to hear a line from her that didn't sound in character or believable for the role she's playing. What part of her performance is poor, that isn't simply how the character is written?
@@zeroattentiongaming820 the delivery of lines. Felt very forced and non authentic. Yeah the writing was terrible too. There were situations, especially in episode 3, where things just happen, without making much sense, and you're just left to shrug it off or assume that X happened without it being explained on screen.
@@zeroattentiongaming820 it's both. I think she was miscast. The character she is trying to convey isn't coming off as authentic. And that's ok. Sometimes you just aren't a good fit. But also Deborah Chow not getting a better performance out of her is her fault. Just as it's georges fault he took fantastic actors like ewan and Portman especially and didn't help them At all. Portman is so bad in the prequels. She needed direction and George isn't good at that. Go watch black swan or that Jackie Kennedy show. She is a great actress.
@@kallepronk7328 yeah its a pretty sad sight to see the fandom do the exact same thing to kathleen kenedy as they did to george. but i guess george described it best 'its like poetry, it rhymes'
As a person of color who was SO EXCITED when I saw Finn on the poster holding a lightsaber and got more and more disappointed with the whiff of racism rearing its pungent ass. THANK YOU, I can only hope others start to see what is blatantly been intentional for a long time bringing forward a change in the future.
There's too much emphasis on race with the new Disney Star Wars. As a brown person of Mexican heritage, I'm not pining for Lucasfilm to cast someone with my shade of skin tone. I get people wanting more diversity, but can we please give it a rest already? It shouldn't matter what color the actor's skin is. It seems so superficial to cast someone based on their skin color. Moreover, a character will be well received and even relatable if he or she is well written; not just because they share the same skin tone as me. Maybe Disney should focus on writing compelling characters instead of just focusing on hiring black actors. I don't know how people are not more disappointed at how poorly written Finn was. It was like they decided that him being black was enough and decided not put any effort into his character development because him being black was enough for them. You need only look at how Bill Burr's character was written to see an example of what Finn could have been. Finn and Mayfeld were both Stormtroopers at some point and yet Mayfeld's character arc was much more compelling, not because the actor was white but because he was very well written. Instead, we got lazy writing for Finn and if you decide to criticize his character, you are labeled a racist. It is counterproductive and lazy to automatically accuse someone of racism without actually taking their critique into consideration.
I think the rest of the industry is slowly moving away from that craze. But Disney is a recent convert, that's why they go out of their way trying to prove just how radical they are, the same way they did fifteen years ago for the other camp, when they were removing Christopher Robin from Winnie the Pooh because soccer moms said their relationship seemed too gay for their kids to watch. Disney swings various ways, depending on where they feel the 50+% support lies. But wherever it swings, it swings _hard._ If China invades Taiwan and it becomes the common opinion that China is the worst thing ever, Disney will be making anti-China cartoons left and right, putting their own Japanese caricatures to shame. And once some kind of female athletes' lobby gets on top, they will turn against the trans in sports, too. They always do.
So what if an actor wasn't a fan of Star Wars already. An actor gets a job and they research the subject and apply their craft. That's what an actor does no matter what.
Me when I get on a star wars kick and want to watch some RU-vid videos: I'm sure watching this channel has good critique and/or insight on lore! An unfortunately high number of Star Wars RU-vid channels/videos: we actually hate current star wars and quite frankly didn't actually understand old star wars beyond the surface level and we have already fucked up your suggested videos for the next 2 weeks! Also we hate Kathleen Kennedy she has never don't anything of value and if she did do anything of value she only got there because of affirmative action or some s***. Legit almost didn't click on this one because I have to be so careful with anything Star Wars related (Marvel and DC are also risky subjects). Glad I watched! Great work! Hopefully the rage bait click industry that drives people to attack actors like Moses will eventually die out, unfortunately I don't think it'll happen any time soon and it's currently got an iron grip on some nerdy fandoms on RU-vid...
you’re forgetting James Earl Jones, who, while not appearing on the screen, gives arguably the most memorable and indispensable performance of the entire franchise…
After 2016, the majority of 'racist' accusations have been wicked smear attempts so they're always disregarded, but in Star Wars they're actually laughable because Lando and Mace Windu are some of the coolest characters.
@@Oblivi0usM Yeah I have played Zelda games since the N64 ones so I would have liked it but I just hate empty open-world games. They need randomized events otherwise it's a drag. Zelda has none of that and breaking weapons takes way too much to get used to.
It's sad that this is "the fanbase" when you consider long time fans are not the ones acting toxic and silly over race and gender topics. Long time fans, however, do tend to criticize other aspects of Disney Star Wars, revolving mostly around just the basic writing itself and the dismissal of long established things. It does not help that new fans try to throw those people in the same group as the toxic race baiters. I have a long list of grievances with Disney Star Wars, but not a single one concerns itself with identity issues.
Pretty much the same as the part of the community I frequent. We all have a very cynical take on the state of things, that the writing is bad and Disney use diversity as a shield to deflect actual criticism. The real reason you don't like the sequel trilogy and its characters isn't the flat characterization and wasted potential, it's because you're automatically racist or sexist for not liking the characters sort of crap.
Yeah what a load of garbage because almost everything that I have seen regarding criticisms has to do with the actual story and acting and material nobody gives a shit about skin color or gender in 2022 but what a great way to shield against criticism and Disney even came out long before fans even got to see the movie to make a statement with Lucas films that pretty much stated anyone who dislikes the movie is a racist and sexist bigot and referenced a couple of idiot trolls on the Internet to label all Star Wars fans. There is not a single movie or show or literally anything on the Internet with any relevance whatsoever that doesn’t have a couple of idiotic trolls posting dumb comments but to highlight those and paint all hundreds of millions of Star Wars fans with the same brush is absolutely ridiculous as is anyone who will defend them for such actions. Bro literally nobody gives a shit about race and I am a black woman myself but I’m not going to look at a bad movie with bad acting checking diversity boxes and walk away saying “well damn that movie really sucked but at least the show focused on someone who had the same skin color as me.” How small bi did you have to be to think this way in 2022 where you look at absolutely anything and everything through the less of race while calling everyone else racists 🤦🏾♀️
Amen. It seems to be Twitter crowd issue. Gen-Xers like me just don't like the world building, etc. But, man, if you express that in any forum these self-righteous little $hits jump all over you for being racist. I am not part of the Twit mob, so I actually watched this to find out what it was, because in the real world, I have heard exactly 0 disparaging things about the gender or ethnicity. I think a lot of these post-Xers need to get offline for at least 6 mos and focus on real people and relationships.
@@chessygrind9223 no, I’m saying that 99% of comments I’ve had calling Reva a shitty character have been unable to explain *why* she’s a shitty character.
@@chessygrind9223 you just proved Pillars point by implying his point was invalid due to your own bad faith argument. Are all the characters of color bad? No. So how do you explain there being so few of them?
I love how the ones calling everyone else racist are the ones keeping a scorecard. Good stories are good regardless of diversity content, but the reason Disney Star Wars has been so lacking in quality is because their focus is not on the content but on checking boxes. You'd think society would have figured this out by now. People don't hate Reva because she's black, they hate her because she's unwarrantedly smug, obnoxious and overpowered and gets healthy helpings of plot armor. Not to mention this was supposed to be Kenobi's story, we don't care about your new fanfiction character.
I would say Ingram is a novice actress and the filmmaker is relying on her too heavily. They obviously want Reva to be menacing and the actress just can't pull it off. With inexperienced actors like Ingram, they should have given her very few lines and just given us shots of 'what she is probably thinking' through body language and facial expressions instead of lines that she just can't deliver in a BA way. These writers need to think of good female villains like Cersei Lannister and Maleficent. Reva is too "mannish" and her delivery of the character suffers a 'believability deficit", not because she's overpowered, but because she's not a female anyone can relate to.
@@kylestephens4133 what I keep wondering is if that performance was the actress interpretation of the script or the directors influence on her performance. I've heard other people say that she was good in other things she's appeared in so this affectation was intentional on some level. What we all agree on is that it's unpleasant and doesn't work and comes across as poor acting.
assuming that a POC actor was hired to tick a "diversity box" IS racism. Lmfao. "People don't hate Reva because she's black" Except the people sending her, oh you know, racial slurs.
@@MichaelCasanovaMusic except Disney tipped their hand by sending her out to do interviews ahead of the show's release talking about warning her about all the hate she would receive, I don't remember them warning Carl Weathers when he appeared in Mandalorian. I mean he also had the benefit of being a good character that was well written and well acted so nobody cared what color he was. And as to all this alleged hate, if you go to her social medias you can't find it... Nothing but supportive comments everywhere and any criticism that exists is of the writing, the character and her choice in performance, they are manufacturing a narrative that just doesn't exist.
@@spaceboy2099 "except Disney tipped their hand by sending her out to do interviews ahead of the show's release talking about warning her about all the hate she would receive" Yeah, I cant imagine why they would warn her that the fandom who had a meltdown about a black stormtrooper has a racism problem. Before they decided that they liked him and went on to bully KMT and DR. for being women/asian. "And as to all this alleged hate, if you go to her social medias you can't find it... Nothing but supportive comments everywhere and any criticism that exists is of the writing, the character and her choice in performance" That's crazy dude, it's almost like they have people who moderate the pages and people send it to her in her DMs. "they are manufacturing a narrative that just doesn't exist." Oooooh, so now they're faking the DMs. Lmfao I know white people like to gaslight POC about what is and isn't racism, but claiming theyre making it up is pretty next level. Especially when the Star Wars fandom has a well known history for harassing actors (be it racially or other reasons), and even more especially when you did the whole "I'm not racist but POC actors are diversity hires" in your OP. Pretty sussy, my guy
Well think about it like this. The number of important roles played by characters that are none white are basically the same as the demographic of America in General.
Dude you are a breath of fresh air. I get so tired of these knuckledraggers infesting any and all communities like this and the constant barrage of bad faith arguments they employ. It's exhausting to try and dispute them.
As a mixed guy myself, growing up in a rather closed off and religious town I’ve always seen Star Wars a source to see diversity (planets, species, cultural). Although I’d love to see more Native American characters like Chakotay from Star Trek. Some space neechie with a vibroblade tomahawk would be insane!
@@ZzIAmNOTLegendzZ Dude I'm not triggered by anything😂😂, I've been seeing this guy's content and it's fucking dogshit. Bitches about a starwars meme that's not racist at all that only shows people of color that have been in starwars, who care whether Disney put more people of color in starwars than Lucasfilm in the past. This is coming from the same mf that thinks the eternals was a good movie, gtfoh😂😂🤣.
Even as a kid I never thought of colour in Star Wars. Loved Lando and thought him a great character. Got to be an idiot bringing baggage like that to Lucas and his movies.
I'm surprised that the person who made that collage didn't try to include each clone that has a stand out story - since they're all supposed to be clones of Jango Fett
Imagine being a creative like an actor, screenwriter or director, and you join a prestigious project like Star Wars. You devote yourself to the work and find it exciting, challenging and rewarding. Imagine that! And never once must you blackout your social media, stop reading the news or avoid public appearances because you're being bombarded by vicious attacks and threats from members of the public. Never are you made to feel that validity of who you are and what you have done in your career is under threat, simply because there are people in the public who view your very existence as a threat. Imagine that.
@@joshuahicks7798 Oh, I get it. Gina got in trouble, so everything I said is invalid. I get it now. If something isn't hard black and white, then it doesn't actually exist.
Oh yeah, not to mention the posts and videos that came out after Moses and the Disney asked fans to stop being racist that were saying that Disney is being woke by calling fans racist for disliking a character… Even though in truth they are calling racist fans racist… For being racist…
It also reminds me of the discussion around female characters, IE that there have "always" been strong women in Star Wars, usually citing Leia and Padme. But when you actually look at their respective arcs in their trilogies, divorced from the EU, both come out the other side... lacking. Both of them get captured at least once a film (sometimes twice) and need to be rescued by the two male leads, have rather sexist romance arcs, and slowly devolve into the emotional support for their male counterparts. Hell, Padme is used narratively as the impetus for Anikan's transformation into Vader. The vast majority of actual quality female representation in Star Wars happens in the Expanded Universe, with legends like Nomi Sunrider, Bastila Shan, Jaina Solo, and Mara Jade.
Hate to break it to you, but Star Wars was designed to be a boys sandbox. What you said would have some weight if the origins of this universe weren't 50 freaking years old. The prequels was Anakin's story and the originals was Luke's. Projecting present day norms into a a half century old narrative is stupid and counterproductive. Star Wars used to be a fairy tale with sci-fi trappings. That's all. All the characters were archetypes (including Leia and Padme)--that's why everyone loves them and relates to them so easily.
I want a Nataasi Daala mini movie series, *BUT* one change I want is Kyp Durron *to die in his first mother fucking scene* so her development and eventual ascension isn't arbitrarily derailed to appeal to dumb little boys, toys or not!
@@redyeti34 They were. What's sad is you don't see it and think strength is only displayed in masculine ways. Secondly, Star Wars was never presented as a girls fairy tale, it was a boys; Luke being the central character.
What really gets me about r/StarWars is that you'll often see posts wanting to see more alien characters on screen or as main characters. They're literally asking for more fictional diversity while at the same waffling back and forth about actual diversity.
Because they don't want them to be actual PEOPLE. Hence why it's always more aliens or more droid types, they don't want actual diversity, they want stand-in's that don't make them uncomfortable. The Book Of Boba Fett made that very clear when they expanded on the Raiders and the posts started coming in on it.
I’m 100% behind you. Thank you for speaking up. We need content creators like you to send the right message out there. Thank you. This really made my day to see someone defending Justice.
Ok, so if so much race hate is coming to these characters from the star wars fandom, then I'm gonna need to see some outright evidence that these people actually dislike her based on race alone. Just because you don't like somebody and they're a minority doesn't mean you're racist. It's called constructive criticism. Why is not having many actors of color a bad thing? If those people are best at their roles, why is race a factor? Why is race ever a factor? Caring about how many black or Asian or Latin people are in a movie is racism itself, no? If race should be a factor, and we need more diversity in film, then isn't that inherently suggesting that preferring one race over another is moral and correct? From my perspective, I believe the talent and acting skills of people should be the only factors in determining whether they get the role or not. This is a meritocracy after all, right? Or is it that certain races need to be boosted up in order to be "equal" with the others? Except this would be like having the black kid get 8 points for every hoop, whilst the white kid gets 2 per score just because he is a so-called "oppressor" group. Diversity CAN be a good thing if we are talking about things like ideas and ways of doing something, but why should it matter when we are talking about race? Martin Luther King's speeches were about having equal opportunity, not equity, not arbitrarily boosting one group over the other just because they don't perform as well in this or that role, then handicapping them in roles they perform better at. He used peaceful demonstration and love to spread his message of how race and skin color should not determine how you are scored in society. It should be based on your skills, character traits, and talents, and those alone, no? Isn't saying one group should be included more in a franchise primarily because of their skin color in itself, racist? Apparently, we aren't allowed to criticize an actor because of their skin color? Because any criticism against a minority person based on how well (or badly) they did racist? if people are so racist, then they shouldn't seem afraid to admit it outright, if you believe in racism, then why fear sharing that view? I have not seen any major part of the fandom or major influencer actually state that certain people are bad actors because of their skin color. There have been legitimate criticisms of colored actors, none of which hinge on their race or "diversity hire" status. Many of them talk about how for example, Rose as a character seemed pointless, or to put it more lightly, that she didn't have a clear or interesting role in the movie, only occasionally popping in, not actually making a major impact on the story. None of that was even slightly (if at all) based on her race. We can look at a counter-example too, Finn, who never received much racial or remotely significant criticism, because he performed his role well, and was a likable character in general. If the star wars fandom is racist and hates minorities in movies, then why didn't a wave of racism and hateful comments immediately come at him when he was introduced in 2015? Fun Fact: Roses Ingram when she was first introduced, the star wars account made a post on Twitter saying quote "We are proud to welcome Moses Ingram to the Star Wars family and excited for Reva's story to unfold. If anyone intends to make her feel in any way unwelcome, we have only one thing to say : we resist." Wait. So that includes criticism of her role in the movie? So they are preemptively getting rid of anyone's social "right" to criticize without even knowing whether people actually like her character or not? That doesn't seem constructive. But hey, maybe I'm just taking it too literally and they are allowing open criticism, (although this post implies otherwise) and it's just racial hate they are speaking out against and trying to put in the spotlight. But again, the question is, where exactly are this so-called widespread racism and ethnicity-motivated bigotry? Where exactly is a majority of the star wars fanbase, not a tiny minority, being racist? A Reddit channel isn't exactly concrete proof of racism and inherent bigotry, is it? Death threats? Ok, but I do believe most of every major celebrity out there receives death threats, how is this different? Not saying death threats are normal and perfectly reasonable, but where exactly is the widespread racism against all actors of color and minorities? There are plenty of examples of characters who have been ingrained into star wars culture who are there because of their skill, not skin color, Finn and Mace are both colored actors, yet neither received blatant and widespread hate for their skin color. They are there because they played their roles incredibly well. That's how it should be, in a functioning meritocracy at least.
@@PillarofGarbageCalling somebody unintelligent is racism? Sure, it's very rude, but how is that aimed at being racist? How is that notion of underrepresentation "common sense?" Why does the race of somebody in a film matter so much that we need a minimum percentage of minority actors in order to be considered racially equal? In a movie, the point of an actor is literally to act, to pretend to be somebody else, as long as they are the best of the best at doing just that, their skin color should be irrelevant because the point of a movie, typically is not necessarily to be full of diverse actors, but to be entertaining and immersive. Being diverse does not affect the quality of a movie. I don't care whether the actor is black or white or Asian or Hispanic, etc. As long as they are good characters, I see no reason to care about their race and ethnicity. Why would a movie purposely hire white-only actors because it wants to be racist over the profit incentive of having good actors, assuming minority actors are just as talented as anybody else? Should movies prioritize expressing political views over making money? That would violate the whole point of a movie, to make money from sales, and people telling their friends to go watch it because it was a good movie, ofc largely affected by the quality of the actors along with the story and rest of the movie itself. That seems like a genuine criticism, and relatively tame knowing the internet. I do not see how that is racist. Rude, perhaps, but how so racist? If a black man called a white man stupid, it isn't racist? But when a white man calls a black man stupid, it is unfair discrimination? Harshly criticizing somebody of a minority is not racist unless it is explicitly made clear. Insulting somebody does not make you a racist unless you actually mean it to their specific race. Again, why would racists hide their intentions of spreading race hate if they truly believed in it? Wouldn't they make it loud and clear? Is the internet getting more toxic? Ok, but specifically more racist against minorities? Where exactly does that come from?
@@gregorytu8357 I'm with you. Reva is not a good character. But that's my opinion. People parrot too much of what they do not understand. It's actually old SW fans vs new Sw fans. When old Sw fans point out what Disney is CLEARLY doing, someone has to call you a negative SW fans. Me personally, I'm up for new stuff, but at least keep continuity. My opinion But I know this channel would say I'm wrong.
There is a whole lot of people who saw her role in Kenobi months before the shows release, and declared it Disney's "woke agenda". There are countless videos like this. If the character was a white man, no one would be raging about the "woke agenda".
@@xevious1538 Yes, there are channels who scream woke everytime. Most of the time , they are right. In this case, it's not about race but it's her acting. I don't blame her or even Deborah Chow, this has executive decisions all over it. The actress should have been at least somewhat prepared for the role.
I loved her character honestly, she brought a lot of passion to the role and was kind of an Anakin type character. Whenever she was on screen she was never boring, as opposed to the two other main inquisitors who were generic bad guy sith dudes with no personality other than being evil
it's annoying when they say "it's freedom of speech" and the whole "they're bringing their politics into our franchise" it's pathetic but I keep reminding myself that. this group is a small group but very loud and obnoxious. like an old drunk complaining about small things just to bring attention and make a fool of them selves. childish
This video was well-done. Star Wars has two fanbases. There's the 70-year old racists. Then there's people like me that grew up in the early 2000s and watched Star Wars. Rogue One was awesome. Honestly I want to see more aliens. Too many humans!
this video was incredibly idiotic, a response to "0 none white people were in this series" shows some none white people, and this guy response with shit like the overall amount or their contribution to the series. Even if their was only 1 black person in all 12 or whatever there are SW movies now it would refute the original claim. A well done video would have shown Moses didnt say or mean there had never been a black person in sw before her, not bring up irrelevant shit or ignorantly claim it was "racist" to dispute the claim there hadnt been. Also based on your response sorry but the racist is you.
They never said star wars fans are racist they said some people are racist who happen to be fans If your assuming they mean you then yes, your a racist Cause only racists get offended being called one, if your not one you wouldn't care Racist
It really annoys me how gate keeping and toxic the star wars fan base can be at times. There's nothing wrong with not liking the character. But to go out of your way to harrass the actress just because she was playing a character is so annoying. I don't mean to be that person, But I genuinely wonder if the character/actor would still get hate and harassment if they were a white male. I genuinely think they wouldn't. This isn't even an issue with the actors too. I've had my fair share of harassment just because I said I like the sequels. I've been called "not a true star wars fan", a moron, and several other things just cause I find them enjoyable. I don't even think they're better than the original 6 movies. Just me liking them puts a target on my back.
@@DavidMartinez-ce3lp Bro that was a different level of bad , people can be all sorts of bad, it was a different world back then and people are obsessed with hating anyone who isnt a normal white dude anymore
@@GazingTrandoshan No, that's just what gets the headlines. Especially if it's a black celebrity. That's what gets the clicks/views. It's ragebait. If you see those headlines over and over again, you'll think that happens everywhere all the time. Now the hates through tweets. The guys i mentioned were harassed in real life to their faces. Especially the kid who played young Anakin. He quit acting and had to go to a different school because of the hate he was getting, and you're telling me that getting mean tweets is worse than that? I get hate and death threats all the damn time. It's not headline news. I don't need to complain about, I just ignore it.
assuming a POC actor was hired to tick a diversity box is racism. "diversity for diversity sake is the literal definition of racism" Lmfao. room temperature IQ andy over here
@@SKYWalkersSG No it's not, noticing that the industry has been dominated by white people for decades (Which is a fact like it or not.) is not racist. You're just projecting.
