While being a builder in SW Florida, I've worked with all of these materials except cedar on decks. Cedar in SW Florida is not usually an option when building decks that will last. While stain tests are nice, unfortunately the weather here can dictate which materials you use greatly. My experiences: Azak is my favorite overall, just ahead of Ipa. It will virtually last forever, expansion and contraction in the summer heat is minimal, and when face screwd, will hold up very well in Hurricanes. My only issue with Azak is that it does dent easier compared to Ipa. Now my dislikes with the hybrid style material: Recommends spacing the butt joints 1/4 inch for expansion with temperature. I personally think decks look better without gappings, but that's my opinion. Those gaps will grow and retract throughout the day, which could also make 45° joints appear mismatched if you have boarder pieces . Also if your OCD, those 1/4 inch gaps on the butting joints ( mainly on bigger decks that require more than 1 length of board, usually 20ft ) often are not consistent spacings when finished. Most of the time dependiding on what time of day you installed that particular board, some joints could differ from 1/8 to 3/8ths spacings by the next day. Azak does not require spacing butt joints. The other thing to keep in mind when building here in SW florida are hurricanes. One sided tie down boards like the trex system hidden screws are weaker to high winds during storms. Also if you need to replace an individual board you need to undo the boards leading up to it to reach the screws located on the one side. So what we do is always face screw 2 screws on 12inch centers 1" 3/16ths and 4" 3/8ths spacings ( with 5 and 9/16 average board widths ), which tested well during Erma and Charly and make an incredibly stiff deck. Ipa is just some premo material that is a great look if you want to keep it natural looking. It will decay over time, and is expensive to replace when needed. But, like the host said, its virtually indestructible when sealed. Those are just my experiences working in Florida, and I know that that much attention to stability isn't necessary in other climates. But that's my 2 cents in dealing with these decking materials. Hope this helps someone :)
I'm a little confused by this, as I have read that ipe lasts 50 years, while composite will last 25-30 years. While ipe seems to be more expensive than standard Trex, other brazilian hardwoods with comparable hardness run a similar price per SF.
The test that seems to be rarely included in deck testing is temperature. We chose wood because the plastic, composite (& metal) get uncomfortably hot in the sun.
Wait, so the video was sponsored by Azek and also found that Azek was the best ?! What an amazing coincidence! C'mon Matt, you can do better than that.
He had good and bad to say about all and told you directly that Azek sponsored the video. There was no one clear winner if you paid attention but then you wouldn't have something to cry foul about.
We put a mcdouble on the deck and found out the preservative seeped into the wood, and 30 years later it still looked perfect, the rest of the deck was rotted away except for a 4 inch circle where the burger had been interesting. Which is why I have created the all new Mcdecking.
I have owned multiple homes and.decks.I hate fake wood decks, those days are gone. I will never seal another deck again. My decks looks as beautiful today as the day it was built. Never thought I would convert but cleaning and sealing is not only a lot of work but expensive.
I have to agree with several of the comments, Price per Foot for each of the boards would be very helpful, Fade Resistance over time outside and "bare foot walkability" around 2 pm on a hot, sunny day! Those are the things most of us would want to know before using them for a deck.
I used Ready Seal Natural Cedar when I built my deck last week and I have a couple of spare boards and tested the red wine. I left it for two hours and it did not penentrate through the Ready Seal and wiped right off. I think the sealer makes a massive difference. This was an interesting caparison. Thank you for sharing.
I've walked on composite boards and notice how they bend a little under your feet. No issue with Ipe, extremely hard and durable in my opinion, and looks SOOOO much better.
I have FiberOn. It was installed about 15 years ago. I was pleased with it for a long time, but time has definitely in the last few years made the top layer look like crap. It seems to peel back in spots. How are the newer products holding up over time?
I was imagining trying to stop the next house buyer from using sunscreen products out on his or her deck to avoid damage. I think it is pretty much going to happen regardless, which means it is the decking, not the consumer, that is going to have to find a way to deal with it one way or another. Obviously we aren't there yet, except maybe with higher maintenance cedar.
I have used untreated (Key:Untreated) clear cedar planks for four houses: two lake houses and two primary houses. If someone is evaluating a material for a new deck, you nailed it. Cedar has undeniable flaws. I have found that evaluating cedar in its infancy, as a freshly cut plant, misses the point: the most important qualities can only be seen and experienced over time. With only half a tongue in cheek, I say this: It has soul, it has wisdom, it can only be understood after you live with it and you become friends. While none of my friends have formally proposed to my cedar dock at the lake (26 ft x 19 ft protruding into beautiful water), many confess in heartfelt terms that they "really love it, a lot". Scary? You bet. Allow me to advocate on behalf of the often-maligned untreated cedar plank, for it is my favorite building material, albeit one that is often troubled and mistreated in its per-pubescent "fresh from the mill" years. Two opening premises: 1) if a flawless "indoor" or "fresh off the lot" look is what you want, don't bother with cedar - you’ll probably hate it; 2) evaluating new cedar decking is wrong-minded, much like evaluating a 15 yeaar old as an advisor to CEOs would be. Time is a friend to cedar decking. I have some brief metaphysical comments later, but let's start with fact based observations about (untreated) cedar planking from the last 40 years. a) you can't beat its "foot feel", b) despite misguided builder lore, it holds up remarkably well even on stairs - foot traffic rounds out the exposed edges and good cedar won't splinter (if you drag heavy solid objects up the stairs, not so much), c) cedar turns grey over time which, besides being beautiful, is the first step in how it ages well, d) PATINA is the unexpected x factor in cedar decks (think of a much loved 10 year old leather object you use a lot). Why? Early spills WILL horrify you. But, like your leather object, eventually the imperfections from use start to make things, ironically, better. You stop crying, start liking, and eventually love. Yes, unlike your formal dining room table and rug, every spill, scratch, ring from a wine glass, dropped hamburger, and horrifying stain eventually blends together and - together with sun's natural bleaching power - its look is cohesive. AND, largely self correcting. UV, Time, elements and blending of flaws make most stains go away. You STOP WORRYING about its lack of perfection and fall in love with how it converts a deck's mishaps into a "what, me worry" timeline of life where only dropped paint cans and ignoring algae growth in wet dark corners (easily scrubbed out) can wreck a good cedar deck e) occasional power washings and hand scrubbing with one of many cleaning agents (detergent with a hint of bleach for example) corrects virtually all assaults from ketchup, mustard, wine, oils, etc as long as you leave behind aspirations of unblemished perfection, f) cedar has personality and, for me, becomes a good friend which ages like you: beaten up by life, but never down and out, wearing some scars which make you smile and wink and even empathize with it because it progresses through it's life like many of us. A story of ups and downs but resilient and always better for having spent a day outdoors in the sun, g) sounds odd but this is KEY: if you live in a climate which is freezing and or wet for part of the year, it makes your life safer unless you stain or seal it. On untreated, quality cedar, water dissipates and quickly wicks down its grain. Drops of water do not freeze into hip breaking hemispheres of danger. By dissipating moisture, it dries remarkably quickly. When wet, it is not slippery (unless you let algae build up in which case it can get dangerously slippery). Cedar has your back. It becomes your friend. It is a good travel companion for life. Getting beaten up by life, bombarded by the sun, transitioning from cold to hot, wet to dry, going from freshly scrubbed to facing assaults of dropped burgers, kids' dirty feet, grandma's dropped coffee or wine or beer - cedar deals with that and the bruises heal. Miraculously, it always reverts to some version of a perfectly imperfect silver grey. It goes through life like we do: handling the ups and downs, body blows, unexpected mishaps, the good times and the bad times. But it picks itself up off the ground, sets its gaze towards better, prettier days in the future and moves forward without complaining. Over time you become good friends. You develop a shared history. You laugh at the fading stain from where your neighbor dropped the entire plate of ribs thinking you would hate him forever. It reminds you that a scratch or a stain ain't the end of the world and that wounds heal. Like a kitchen, it's cozy. It's where people want to be. Cedar hates the idea of a perfect life and understands the futility of aspiring to perfection and being young forever. Cedar gets it. Untreated cedar decks handle adversity better than 95% of the people I know and because of it's self healing resilience. Cedar decks, like good friends are are like best friends who have your back and make it easier to walk though life with your head held high, an appreciation for the simple pleasure of bare feet on kind wood, awareness of how time, love, and loyalty can heal. Every time I stand on one of my cedar decks, breezeways, or stairs I am content, at peace, in balance and fulfilled. Usually I have a smile on my face - c'mon man, you dropped the entire platter of ribs... and it landed face down. No worries neighbor. It'll look just fine real soon, it'll be gone soon after and we'll be laughing about this forever. A plastic deck will never be a true friend that will laugh with you.
Yes..what a great post..the much maligned cedar, really does hold up well. It does need more maintenance, of course, but you have the look of real wood, not plastic...ugh! The best wood of all may well be ...hemlock..rough cut..indestructible! When you sand it, a lot of red comes out..As for me, I'm replacing pressure treated on my daughter's deck w ..mahogany..about the same price as composite., yes, maintenance required. But it's oh, so beautiful!
I've built powerlines for over 30 years an worked with Cedar Southern yellow pine an mahogany. You're saying untreated last longer because of the wicking of moisture. I live on the river in Southern Ohio and we do have cold winters Thank you for your advice
California sun will completely destroy trex or other composites in less than 10 years. The deck on my balcony was old when I moved in 11 years ago. It's never been treated with anything all that time, it's still nice and tight enough to walk barefoot on.
Matt, I love your content. I have a question. Where is your TREX board? Azek and Timbertech are owned by the same company. Seems biased, especially when funded by Azek.
What kills my 5/4 pressure treated decks is not staining/scratching but UV and then rain. Honestly, I think that my next (and last) house will have NO DECKS.
I've used IPE and love it. But on an 80' wraparound porch project I dug a little deeper on IPE and see that despite marketing claims, it is unsustainably harvested from Brazilian rainforests. Yep, the rain forest being burned down for cattle grazing, the one that's pushing over the edge with global warming - that's the one. Damn shame. So for my current project I'm using Fiberon Symmetry "Cimmaron" and loving the look so far. It looks like mahogany and is standing up so far.
Thanks for the Fiberon suggestion. I wasn't familiar with it. FSC certified Ipe is available but not readily. FSC certification is a good measure for whether a wood is sustainably harvested or not.
Yep! And your poor doggos! They cannot take it. You HAVE to be in planting zone 6 or below to consider using composites OR be in shade most of the day, especially afternoons. I've had every decking material know to man over the years and found that ipe is by FAR the best IF you can afford it and find contractors willing to work with it. Some will flat out tell you that it is too hard to work with, but if you are warmer climes with a ton of sun exposure, it is the way to go. The only other material I'd consider is treated cedar and with that it should be laid down in an alternating diagonal pattern both for aesthetics and to minimize warpage. But that then increases cost....
@@Haileynh20 No. The stuff is pretty much indestructible. The downsides are: cost, difficult to work with (due to hardness), and a limited range of "tropical" stains it will accept. You are basically going to get something in the tan to dark brown range, maybe with some red overtones.
@@JeffreyTheTaylor Thanks. I'm planning on building a deck on top of my rooftop. Which is why I asked about the snow as it will be completely exposed during the winter season.
So the TimberTech board is the only board shown that will accommodate Dexerdry polymer insert to create a watertight seal between the boards. Matt which decking boards do you have the most success with in terms of dry roof decking, where the deck below is dry due to top being watertight? Would certainly like to see an episode comparing on dry decking for those useful space under a deck. Thanks
"They're in a metal can for a reason, they're chemicals and they're gonna mess with your deck" So keep those chemicals on your kids and your lawn instead.
They're in a metal can because they are pressurized... "PVC" as in what the synthetic deck boards are made of would be just fine holding them if not under pressure lol.
We exclusively use moisture shield when we do composite, it's not capped, solid colour all the way through. We fix scratches from install with a lighter, works great
Timber tech is 100% the way to go if for no other reason you have the clips to fasten down instead of screwing down through the face of the boards which makes for a cleaner finished product. Which is the one thing missing from this test. All this is great and all but what happens when you have fasteners penetrating the board then have a mess in that area. Azek is for trim, timber tech is for decking.
I see a lot of synthetic being used out in the Federal lands up in Washington. Saw a lot of new picnic tables made out of the stuff. They now have signs everywhere telling people not to put your grill on the tables, they are all warped and melted.
Thanks for the info. on decking. I have a concern with how hot composite decks get and I know I have been at the beach and can't walk on the composite decks in bare feet due to the temperatures. These were years ago so I assume technology has come a long way. Does anyone have an idea of how hot a deck (composite or wood) has to get before the average person can't stand to walk on it in their bare feet. I know Moisture Shield has a product call CoolDeck Technology that they advertise that is supposed to be cooler by up to 35% than the competitions composite deck. Do you know anything about this? It is also a product carried by Timber Town.
Ipe,...No thanks...My brother built a farmhouse and wrapped it with a porch on 3 sides, using Ipe. after only 3-4 years, the stain and sealant wore off. Looked like hell. A lot of money....
Greys out really nicely. I hate that it greys out. I have ipe and do everything I can to stop it from turning grey. Amazingly beautiful wood until it turns grey.
Ipe is photoreactive. You might have done a control by putting the tape on and leaving it in the sun without bug or sunscreen spray. Otherwise, great camparo.
Thanks for info but honestly there were SO many other parameters that would've been useful to see 'side by side': - resistance to denting/marring - expansion due to heat/ humidity - real world scratch test (maybe actually move around some furniture) - repair options for these various problems *and also, since the one composite had a lamination, is it more prone to swelling or staining when ripped ... sorry to nit pick, just adding some worthy considerations. Maybe some ppl w knowledge can drop that below?
i still think i wili install IPE you can refinish it yearly at a low cost to bring it back to new meaning it will look great every summer if you do it in the spring.
@@jamesrempel8522 no different than every few years spending thousands to replace other products. this would only require a quick wash and then stain. get a couple neighbour kids to do it with a roller to stain and power washer to clean before staining
With all this testing you're doing I sure hope we get a ZIP test. Maybe a normal install with nails exposed vs. Doug's sealant version vs. other systems (tyvek, delta, Carlisle, asphalt paper, etc.). Here's to hoping!
Pro tip #1: Most organic (i.e.: food) stains will significantly decrease in the direct sunlight over time (UV rays destroys most stain-causing compounds)Pro tip #2: If your deck has some spots of sunscreen and or bug spray, why not spray it all over the deck to make it look even?
I think in the end it comes down to price. If the the synthetics are comparable to Ipe.....then it becomes a difficult decision. But if the Ipe is half the cost vs synthetics, I would choose the Ipe. The wood is incredibly dense and resilient in outdoor applications. They made the Coney Island boardwalk out of Ipe where it endured saltwater exposure and foot traffic from millions of visitors for over 50 years before needing replacement.
Matt, you need a warning on this video that some mighty fine looking hamburgers were harmed in this test. On a more serious note, the real test of these materials is what they look like after 10 years of exposure to sunlight, rain, etc. Mold used to be problem with some of the composites. Has that gotten better?
I only saw one flaw, when you tape over a portion of a wood surface and left it in the sun. The exposed surface of the wood will tan, and the taped unexposed will not tan thus leaving a color differential.
After 2 failed composite decks in Massachusetts I wanted ipe. After researching the cost and the upkeep I was talked into Azek. It has been down for YEARS with zero maintenance. Space every joist 12 inches or less or it is bouncy. I prefer the side grip attachment on slotted PVC... no holes... no water penetration.
A-ron and stop being so narrow minded. All of us have a narrative but yours is too dogmatic. There are ethical alternatives to chopping down virgin forests. The Costa Ricans and many others have chosen tree farming. Do some research. This world is a masterpiece and we are part of the grand picture. Sustainable farming, ranching, mining, and fishing are the goals of intelligent environmentalist. Living in harmony with the rest of nature should be our goal. Unfortunately corporate greed has no conscience.
Great Video. Have you done any tests on Grilling stains? I have Gas, Charcoal and a Smoker on my current cedar deck, but it needs to be replaced. Any thoughts or advice?
Have a composite deck and will replace it with Ipe when it's past end of life. I don't like how the texture on composites grabs dirt and causes them to look dirty. This is something I've never noticed with even unfinished wood decks. Also the composites are slippery when wet and get MUCH hotter in the sun.
Andrew V Is Ipe traditionally more expensive than composite? Getting an estimate for TREX this week, but your comment us making me consider mahogany or ipe wood.
1st: another GREAT vid / lesson Matt!! ...I've always wondered why some people look forward to their wood ' graying out' as they call it. Why ? To me ..grey weather worn wood looks terrible. I've always protected mine with a good clear coat of some sort. No greying allowed 😅 Also.. I see a lot of people that buy beautifully grained & knotted wood.. Then.. They PAINT IT !! 😲 WHAAAAAT the ..
I built myself a timberframe house and my relatives wondered why I didn't box around the timbers with stick frame and drywall. 😒 There's just no accounting for some people. That said, I do love the look of a greyed out wood in some cases - board and batten, cedar shakes, etc. But not on a deck.
@@jamesrempel8522 agreed. I like grey on some interior and exterior properly designed settings however I do not like the greyed out / old faded on deck or fence because I feel it makes it look old and time to redo
I would be curious to see a heat index comparison on these same boards. How hot do they get when exposed to full sun on 90 degree day? Walk on with bare feet?
Stained Cedar looks the best, is the cheapest on here, and held up just as well as the others or better. If I had a beach house though I'd use the timbertec
Matt Risinger could pick a few sample boards and leave them outside, maybe add some fall yard debris if you have it and revisit in the spring to see which one survived a winter better. Kind of a long term test, but wouldn’t take more than a few feet of your backyard to do.
I have azek in the sandstone light brown. Never had a single issue with anything. Stuff is amazing and not that much more than a pressure treated deck cost. ESP compared to trex
In hot weather composite(and any plastic) is uncomfortable since it retains heat more than wood does. Cedar and black locust are the best woods for decking, steps, and also for structure since they are resistant to termites.
What I have ran into here in the pacific north west, is mold with the composit decks. I've done one warranty replacement from a manufacturer due to mold and the new boards molded as well. (Deck constructed >24" off ground with airflow and a moisture barrior on the soil). I've seen them pressure washed and it just pushes the mold deeper into the product which shows up as black stains months later. Maybe some of the new products are better but I personally prefer wood despite some of the considerations with it.
The sunscreen spray actually ate through a cell phone case that stuff is nasty the can blew up in a back pack that my phone was in an ruined my phone along with the case nasty nasty stuff
Finally... A company willing to even show a little bit of downside (honesty) in there product. This is refreshing and I'm glad you pointed it out and gave them credit for doing this. Makes me want to put them at the top of the list when considering deck products.
I don't understand if you're testing durability and cleaning, why didn't you see how they each hold up to a pressure washer? I think those are pretty common nowadays.
should have added trex to the test. I sell both and feel that the trex is a much better product. azeks warranty says it will fade over time and you cant put any vinyl or plastic product on it because it will react with it. also the trex transcends holds up much better to scratches. I will say the timber tech has a lot of really good looking options. keep up the good vids
Modern day cedar is a waste of time/money. The trees are so young, doesn't last like it used to. Brown PT will actually live longer than the cedar we have now.
I used the expensive PVC decking. I set the butt joints at 1/8" space. After 3 years those butt joints are 5/8" wide. The shrinking is ridiculous. I think the brand was Decoratrim but not positive.
Great test, and very informative! We here in Western Canada would like to see another couple added. We get cold winters, minus 20 to 35 Celsius. A slip test would be in order. On the other side of the scale is plus 20 to 35 Celsius. Shrinkage and expansion, particularly at finished joints. I've witnessed some scary stuff in the engineered materials. Crazy slippery, and giant gaps in joinery.
I've installed lots of composite here in Winnipeg, most brands are extremely slippery when covered in snow, and can be terribly damaged from shovelling, can also be damaged from ice melt products. Most composites are darker colours, they get horribly hot in the summer. Also worth mentioning, using even a cheap garbage composite will effectively double the cost of the deck compared to pressure treated SPF... the decking itself will have a very long, very low maintenance lifespan, but the framing is the same as a normal deck so it'll still rot at the same speed, leaving you with decking that's "still good" on top of a crumbling structure...
