The problem won't be the 20 limit itself, but the fact that very few people will follow it. Meaning the combination of 1/2 people doing 20 and a dozen or so doing 30 will create problems. Hell, people barely do 30 in 30s.
The thing is the lower you set the limit, the lower rate of compliance you will get. If you set the limit at 500mph you would get 100% compliance, that's not exactly the point... It's hardly going to "increase" the average speed people will be doing, additionally it should give certain people who would prefer a calmer pace the confidence to drive slower without succumbing to frustrated pressurising of other drivers.
@@leifcian4288 There was a time when speed limits were set according to the percentile of road users who drove at that speed . It was always taught at Police College that people simply will not obey unrealistic speed limits . Politicians who try to impose them without heeding professional advice ought to be voted out of office ; this has recently happened in Brighton , where the Green party were voted out after imposing many unpopular measures . I predict the same in the London area .
@@derekheeps1244 Except many individuals would adhere to speed limits set for a reason and might prefer not to feel obligated or stressed and pressured by the impatience of certain other individuals. If the average citizen had recourse to action bad behaviour of drivers where it is adversely affecting their quality of life, rather than only police having recourse to action offending behaviour, then poorly behaving motorists would have more cause to improve their behaviour where it would otherwise be lightly to affect others adversely. Take a liberty here and there where nobody is lightly to notice or care then no issue, cause noise pollution and drive belligerently where people are lightly to be affected in their day then one's licence should be actioned. People would adhere to more reasonable behaviour if they would otherwise be denied sale of fuel, simple. A very simple action to manage traffic behaviour, the police need not be involved in the first instance of enforcement, minor issues only need to be licensing issues in the first instance not criminal issues.
I'm sure it's the same for many people across the UK, but in South Wales there has been lots of changes to speed limits on roads in the area which feel very unnecessary. Parts of the M4 randomly being changed to 50mph, roads which were previously national/60mph roads being reduced to 40mph, etc. It really feels like there is a huge push to make driving as unpleasant as possible.
To reduce formerly NSL roads to lower limits there needs to be an analysis of serious incidents and KSI statistics before it can be permitted - at least that is the situation here in Scotland , but we do have the superior legal system .
I just passed my test first time with 3 minors. Your mock test videos helped me figure out common mistakes and form good habits (e.g. checking mirrors). Thanks a ton!
@@ConquerDrivingA lot of people are making a big fuss out of nothing 32 km/h is more than enough for a built up area. Here in Ireland Urban areas are 30km/h.
The 20mph speed limit will make little to no difference to the actual speeds that people drive. The Police will rarely have the resources to enforce it. It's just a silly PR stunt.
Probably worth noting 20 is right between 2nd and 3rd gear for a lot of cars meaning depending on the gradiant if there is any gradual up or downhill it means constantly changing up and down gear causing excessive wear to the clutch ane gearbox. With the exception of town centres and condensed areas such as around schools there is no reason for a 20 limit
@@Agu_Ra I can imagine most people will drive around in 2nd gear though. Personally I shift into 4th at 20mph as my cars at 1,200rpm and gets 95mpg. At 30mph in 5th at around the same rpm my car gets 110mpg. I only downshift at these speeds if I'm climbing a hill or need extra power.
Different vehicles gear differently. Also engine increments are mechanically tuned to the speed increments of the region they will be sold. The gearing can be adjusted to behave somewhat differently at different speeds. Just like on a bike you can put different size front or rear chainrings on for different ratios/ranges, depending on your desired use case. I suspect its probably not that difficult to adjust the gearing behaviour of most vehicles as components are produced to scale for sale in different regions both mph/kph.
As Cardiff is my home city, I was familiar with the roads you used and know which lanes to use etc. But even though I've been driving 50 years i still get confused/get it wrong if driving in an unfamiliar place. It therefore encouraged me to know that an able and professional driver like yourself can also sometimes get it wrong in unfamiliar territory. Thanks for your excellent videos!
You can't just change the speed limit and expect people to follow it. You have to change the design of the street to make drivers feel less comfortable at higher speeds. Think of it this way. Imagine driving at 40mph down a busy high street, lots of parked cars and narrow lanes. Sounds scary, right? Now imagine going 40mph on a motorway. See where I'm getting at?
It's easier to change the default in urban areas than it is to redo the entire road layout. Making lanes more narrow, putting in protected cycle paths and raised pedestrian crossings at junctions has to be a rolling programme. I would actually agree with the broad consensus in the comments here that a default of 20 is bad - albeit because I'd rather they put up 20 signs in areas which WILL receive work to make them pedestrian first, and drivers will feel a lot more guilty driving in an explicit 20 zone than an implicit one.
@@bradleystannard7875 Driving at 40mph on a smart motorway is still frustrating though, even if it is the speed limit they've posted. It's because of the *Design of the road*
@@ben.taylor I agree 100%, as you said hammering down a single lane road with cars either side at 40 vs a 3 lane road. I am going to cross my fingers and do something I never do, and put faith in local gov, that eventually they will make it either a shared space, or change how the road functions.
I feel like a limit of say 25 would be better. For most cars and drivers, 20 is a very unnatural speed to keep, you're often a bit too fast for second but a bit too slow for third, meaning it needs more concentration than 30. 25 allows you to keep comfortably in third whilst also being slower, leaving room for dangers and such.
I know it feels like around a third. 20 feels pretty fast on a push bike, perception is based on experience - 30 feels incredibly slow too: when you exit a motorway after a hundred miles. @@leifcian4288
@@imarocketman90 Yeah could just have high speed rail going down every residential street instead and no cars or roads then, couldn't we plankmin. How fast did urban street trams use to go eh? You know back when every large Western city had them?
Being from wales, I can safely say it’s a pain in the a**e and councils are changing roads which do not need to be 20, it’s just to wind us all up really! Try driving through Abergavenny on a Tuesday when the market is on, it’s frankly frustrating to drive through.
I have passed my driving test today and I would like to thank you for your videos as I am watching these frequently and they are really informative for new drivers ❤. You are very good instructor.
Heard that 20mph is actually more dangerous than faster speeds because it causes some people to pay less attention to the road and more attention to the speedometer.
Very true, two 20 roads in my area have been installed right outside my estate and it’s difficult trying to stay under 20, especially as most people are still going 30 or at least 25 on it
agreed, even in 30 zones that are plastered with cameras/average speed zones i end up paying more attention to my speedometer to make sure i dont edge over and get a fine than the actual road, which can be hazardous as its often in these areas which are the most hectic with lots of hazards.
@@fluffy3953 it's a bit worrying that you openly admit to struggling to maintain a steady speed of 30 while driving without being distracted from the road ahead. Not all speed cameras are flagrantly visible, and temporary speed checks do exist.
@@fluffy3953 Yeah it is ridiculous and nothing but a money making scheme. I drive a strech regular that is literally plastered with cameras. The old ones, new yellow ones, (fake) Police vans you name it. Absolutly no need for the road to be a 30 in the first place it looks and feels like at the least it should be a 40. No schools about, straight roads which you could easily do 50+ safe on, but no it has to be 30. You are constantly looking at the speedo to make sure you sit on 30 at the most. I know majority of speedos are under but not a chance am I risking the needle going over so most people will really be doing around 26-7. Nothing but a big scam.
Haha, that blue BMW around 4:10 has caught me out plenty before, thinking it was someone trying to leave rather than parked up. The 20mph speed limits are ridiculous in the vast majority of circumstances, and I believe they tie into the Welsh government's greater plan to make driving less and less desirable to make people take public transport instead. I am not a fan, to put it lightly.
@@joso7228 I'm not in favour of it, I'm just saying that is the Welsh government's plan for transport. Make driving less convenient and more annoying by shrinking road space for cycle lanes, charging congestion fees, introducing low-emission zones, and introducing 20mph everywhere, forcing people to take public transport.
Im from Cardiff, I found that it actually brings the speed alot of people do closer to 30mph. The same people that would speed 40+ in a 30 would now be doing 30 in a 20
They would be going double the amount faster than the traffic so they'd be, and feel, more conspicuous. They'd also be risking a ban, not just a fine.@@Gazzxy
Passed today in first go. Your videos are very helpful and informative. Examiners are very nice. Keep checking mirrors and blind spots and you will get it✌🏻😊
Oh Richard don't get me started on this one; me and my fellow ADIs aren't happy about this one for so so many reasons. You should have visited Cardiff Driving Test Centre to see what the consensus is there!😅😂 Interesting to hear that you find driving around Cardiff challenging due to poor road markings and the like; we spend a lot of our time complaining about the same thing!
Yet instead of dealing with poor road signage/marking and unclear road layout especially bus lanes that appear out of no where around the next corner with a bus lane camera they waste £1s millions on this 20 mph madness instead of making sure people unfamiliar with the road don't have to make sudden last minute changes.
Absolutely true, Jonathan. I’m loving being overtaken dangerously just about every day on lessons 🙄. Apart from the hassle whilst teaching (and the poorly sited and sometimes just plain wrong signs and markings), there will be a knock effect for deliveries etc as they will now take significantly longer and therefore costs will increase. At least the blatantly wrong 30 signs at the bottom of Celyn Avenue have disappeared. You could see 20 repeaters in every single off that roundabout 🤬.
In a village near me the max speed has been reduced from 30 to 20. I was talking to a pensioner about how everyone still seemed to drive at 30mph. He insisted that the 20mph limit was not actually a maximum speed limit but only advice. He insisted that no one could actually be expected to drive so slowly. The 20 limit passes a children's park , shops and a school.
From an era of drink driving and driving with bald tyres being acceptable, speed limits on motorways were only introduced in 1965. A lot of pensioners are shocking drivers, I get close passed on the bike a lot b older drivers and the genuinely think that its safe because they didn't hit me!
@@ynotnilknarf39 tbh I often struggle to respect today's pensioners the same as I respected my grandparents generation, which I really miss now. They remembered growing up during the war and all the rationing/rebuilding in the years after, my granddad cycled to work throughout his 20s and generally there would be no expectation to own a car until more settled in life a bit older. Pensioners these days, perhaps they generally had cars since they were teenagers or relatively young, relatively cheaply to run ect. Then that's how it's been for a lot of people every generation since, people don't know any different can't be bothered to ride a bike some of the time and basically never even learnt to like "properly." How can you trust people with cars when they couldn't even keep a bike running well? Not the slightest understanding of the most basic mechanics yet use up a bunch of cars throughout their lives. Waste a bunch of fuel with poor driving habits but it never mattered because fuel was always too cheap to worry about it much.
It isn’t all London but the 30 mph limit is dropping to 20 in many places. Can be confusing if you don’t know the area. Also there are to many place with driving restrictions and slow measures (hums and road narrowing). I don’t mind the speed limit but sometimes is irritating to drive in London.
I had my driving lessons in Cardiff, along the roads you've driven. I received abuse and plenty of people over took me on the 20mph roads. I'm glad your experience was different.
I actually believe that this could be even more unsafe. Many will not follow it, and as such those who are sticking to it may be overtaken (possibly unsafely) which could cause more accidents.
If you do 20 MPH especially in the evening, expect to be tailgated relentlessly by a litany of tinted out BMWS, Audis and Mercedes on their way to the local Fried Chicken shop.
I don't believe the kind of thing you describe would realistically cause overall safety to be worse. In fact it would just make it easier to distinguish worse offending drivers for penalty.
@@JackFate76 it’s the realistic argument. Many drivers (of course incorrectly) may not stick to the speed limit if they themselves deem it too slow and so unsafe overtakes may occur. Only way I can see this issue being avoided is speed cameras but they are expensive.
@@Nathan-cg2sq Even if this happens (which it will not because people will get used to the new limit and a couple of checkpoints here and there will do wonders) it will be more safe than now.
“There is not enough evidence to conclude that there has been a significant change in collisions and casualties following the introduction of 20mph limits in residential areas” Atkins AECOM and Professor Mike Maher (UCL) were commissioned by the Department of Transport in 2014 to address the gap in evidence available on the effectiveness of 20mph speed limit (signed only) schemes. Twelve case study schemes were studied, from a variety of area types, road types and scale. Published 22 November 2018 Last updated 11 March 2019
The issue with 20 limits is that the vast majority of drivers simply do not stick to them. Those that do stick to them then face abuse. I completely agree with your point about the constant increase in restrictions and rules. Unfortunately I fear that the authorities will solve the above issue by simply bringing in more cameras in 20 zones, probably fining far more safe drivers doing 26mph in the middle of the night than those who are actually dangerous.
Probably it would be better for speeds to go from 20/25/30mph because there's a very big difference between 20 and 30 really. In Kph country's that's basically what a 10kph increment is near enough, bit more.
I literally just changed my driving test today from September 21st to the week before on the 14th because of this, I will deal with the 20 after my test, it is ridiculously slow for roads like this though and I have had abuse as a learner for sticking to it, depends on time of day I think and who is on the road. I’m just down the road from Cardiff in Barry, I would have happily been on camera 👍
I’d have stuck with that later date tbh, you’d have a lot less to do and tbh, it’s much easier to drive slower, it’s frustrating when you driving just on your own normally but for a test it’s easy, much easier to make less mistakes going that slow more time to take in the road ahead signs etc and many roundabouts you have to drop to 2nd gear anyway, I’d have stuck with that later date, I just don’t understand though tbh, does this mean that no roads are gonna be 30mph? If normal street light roads are 20 now what roads are gonna be 30? Will it just be 20 then straight onto 40 when the speed increases or will they add 30s where the 40s were
@@yungthug2403 thing is I know what streets are 30 and what ones are currently 20 in my area along the test route, it would possibly just be another reason to fail if I accidentally did 30 along a road that’s only just changed to 20 like 4 days before.
@@yungthug2403 the plan is for everything that is 30 mph to be dropped to 20 mph, unless stated otherwise, including places that don't have any houses (woodland) because there is a mental hospital in 3/4's of a mile along the one road I know about my local council asking if people want it to remain 30, but chances are it is a farse, and they will just reduce the speed limit anyway.
When doing the survey, did you ask if they were drivers or pedestrians or cyclists? I think this could've been the most interesting to see how voices split across those groups
I'm from Cardiff, and I must say , it's been 20mph in most streets for a while now. It just seems now they're finally standardising it . And there even making some dual carriageways 40mph instead of 50mph. And I'd also just like to thank m you for helping me pass my driving test in December 2022 ,you really helped me fill all my knowledge gaps. Back on topic, during my driving test, I only got to 30mph once for about 1 minute, honestly doesn't surprise me that they're making this the law now . (Just realised you took my driving test route👍)
As a Cardiff resident, I think it's fine for Cardiff and Swansea, but for the rest of Wales it's silly. I'd be interested to know the statistics though - does it reduce pollution because of going slower, or increase it because of cars spending more time in the area?
@@unconventionalideas5683 An understandable point but not sure I agree. Personally I rarely drive around cardiff and instead walk, and have never felt unsafe while walking. I've never met anyone who feels unsafe walking around Cardiff due to the cars. And actually, I think the slow speed would encourage even more people to try to cross the road unsafely. There's one crossroad in particular going into the centre of Cardiff past Cathays that a huge amount of people dangerously cross. While yes, the slower speed would make it safer if they do cross in front, I also think it will lead to it happening more frequently - it may be one step forward and one step back. I honestly think it makes cycling more dangerous; it's much safer to overtake a cyclist than attempt to maintain a low speed behind them. You risk getting rear ended, and especially uphill you can be stuck in first gear which can be jerky and less safe (although I will accept that there's not much uphill in Cardiff).
@@unconventionalideas5683 Actually it increases the pollution specifically for public transport users. Buses and trucks with their large diesel engines will become less efficient, as they're in traffic longer, thus increasing pollution and also increasing travel times for passengers. Another point I'd like to mention is that it doesn't necessarily make walking safer. Pedestrians walk on the pavement, cars drive on the road. A collision would most likely occur when pedestrians and traffic mix (although they could also occur in other areas such as a driver mounting the pavement). These types of collisions are mainly caused by reckless driving, drunk drivers, and drugged drivers. Such drivers will remain a threat to the road and changing the speed limit does not correlate in anyway to counter such threats.
More pedestrianized areas in Cardiff and Swansea centre would be fine (and that would help stop pollution) but we are talking about 20mph in all urban areas and that is ridiculous.
As someone who drives around the area regularly, I think a lot of Swansea is safe at 30mph default. During busier times, it will naturally be 20mph or below, but I imagine driving around most of Swansea while it is quiet at a 20mph limit would feel really unnecessary.
Thank you for all your help, your videos helped me pass 1st time with only 6 minors on Monday. My instructor lives for these moments and I'm sure you love hearing great news about those who benefited off of your videos :)
We have had this kind of "30km/hization" in Germany for a few years now and I can't tell you enough how much I hate it. It takes so much longer to get somewhere, uses more fuel in most cars and most of the times is placed in completely unnecessary places. Before they started putting them literally everywhere, we had 30kmh (which is about 20mph) zones in smaller roads in residential areas, which made sense because of children playing there etc, nowadays they put them EVERYWHERE, just half a year ago they put them along the whole main road of my city, it's wide roads with fences and not a small residential area, it just slows everything down and annoys every driver around.
@@rga7482 well, not completely true. Most of the parts have no speed limit, only a "recommended speed" of 130, but some parts do have a 120 kmph limit. But who knows how long the speed limit free parts will remain, with our incompetent politicians of the green party at the lead it's probably gonna be gone sooner than later. Especially with some idiots glueing themselves on the road to save the climate, this country truly goes down the shitter.
Man, i can tell you, probably the mentality is different in our countries, in Portugal i never go 30 km/h in a 30, i normally go 50/55 km/h (or more) but of course i know when i need to go slower, but i see many people don't.
I think 20mph is fine as a default number as long as certain bigger and wider roads have explicit 30mph. Not like they did in Camden borough in London where every road had 20mph limit including wide "red route" roads.
This is what annoys me, for a lot of roads, 20 is suitable, back streets, narrow lanes, schools, pedestrianised areas etc. But there are miles long arterial roads in London, wide enough to drive battle tanks both ways, that are 20mph. It's just ludicrously slow for roads of that type.
In theory, this is a good idea because slower speed limits are much better for people walking and biking, and you want those people to do their thing so there's less traffic. They really should redesign the roads though, it needs to feel like a 20mph road more than just adding a new sign.
I’ve driven on roads where I felt the speed limit was too low whilst on others I have driven at a speed limit that is below what that speed limit should be.
@@AlanSmith-xu3lo Why, because your so ego-centric that people overtaking you are an insult? You probably get mad when a pedestrian on the sidewalk walks past while your stopped at a red light because they overtook you. It doesn't fricking matter. If it bugs you so much, get on a bike and overtake some cars too.
One reason the mean speed dropped by only 3 mph could be because people were already driving more or less 20mph in the first place, and this is just institutionalizing existing practice.
Where I live you find roads wide enough for 1 vehicle with Victorian terraced housing with car parked on both side where people love to fling open car door and cross between parked cars especially with their small child in front of them were 15mph is too fast but if you put a 20 mph sign people will think that's a safe speed.
As an ADI I'd say that in my experience I find just as many people getting frustrated with my learners sticking to the speed limit at other speed limits as I do at the 20 mph one. When my learners are confident enough to handle it, I explain that it's just as risky driving too slowly as it is to drive too quickly because it encourages a significant minority of other drivers to behave badly (pulling out in front, cutting up and overtaking when it isn't safe . . . and the like). In the recent past I had a driver overtake one of my learners accross the wrong side of a mini roundabout!, and they passed two other cars on the approach to the roundabout too. Anyway my point is, that even though I don't personally agree with the plan to reduce default speed limits to 20 mph, I don't think it's going to make any significant difference to the impatience some drivers exhibit arround other drivers who want to obey speed limits. They'll behave that way whatever.
did my driving test on cearphilly road and its one of them ones where you just have to know its a 20 zone. very confusing when trying to do my test when street lights with no sign were sometimes 20 and some 30 you just have to know by practicing on them roads.
In southern Scotland, we have a ton of 20mph zones, often in quiet industrial areas with very few pedestrians (or even vehicles), which can be a bit frustrating! And you get cars tailgating you a lot :-/ On the bright side, it does give you more time to react early to any hazards … but as other commenters have pointed out, you get people overtaking you in borderline dangerous places, which probably wouldn’t happen in a 30 zone, so not sure that the benefits outweigh the risks 🤷🏻♀️
All they're doing is devaluing the 20 limit. Currently those signs make it clear that there's mixed traffic which requires extra attention. Besides, signs don't slow you down, road design does. Just slapping signs and speed cameras willy-nilly will do precisely nothing to improve road safety. I'd say it'll probably be a deteiment more than anything.
I think it's genuinely more dangerous. 20mph is so flipping boring, that people's attention will wander, they will be more likely to take their eye off the road, fiddle with the radio and sat nav, play with their phone, and crash more. I'm absolutely convinced I drive safer when I drive at a speed that encourages me to focus 100% on driving. I think this is true across the board - which is why the Autobahn is not as dangerous as people expect - you really pay attention when you're doing 120mph..
the problem is that no one is actually abiding by the limit. if we had speed cameras then it would be good but unfortunately that’s not the reality. also ends up with getting tailgated frequently for going the limit
Richard, I thoroughly enjoy your video's. Driverless technology in cars and trucks are quickly becoming the way of the future. In Arizona, USA, people can request a car through their app and crawl in without having to drive once it shows up in your driveway. When everything on the road is driverless and we are all sitting and enjoying the ride, there won't be a need for speed limits, tyre pressure gauges, oil changes, MOT's, finding an honest car mechanic, or battling for the cheapest car insurance. Car ownership will diminish and it will be cheaper to 'dial a car' use it and watch it drive away when you're done. Will it put driving examiners and driving instructors out of a job?
I already spend most of my time looking at the speedometer than focusing on the road with my black box, I'd rather take the hit for a higher insurance premium at this point.
@@NateMorton404 My first year insurance was 2,000 with a black box and 3,700 without. Second year 1,400 with and 2,200 without. It was worth every penny extra to remove it
I passed my test last Friday with only 2 minors and your videos helped me achieve that. Thank you very much for making them, they're so incredibly helpful!!!
I definitely think 20mph is suitable for certain situations in built-up areas and town centres, and definitely in school zones, but there are plenty of roads which are currently 30mph across Wales which will definitely feel sluggish and unnecessarily slow at 20mph. Even some of the current 20mph zones around my local area seem too slow. Certain 30mph roads are quite wide and open and I will often be tailgated in those areas, too, so I can't imagine how it will be when they become 20mph. I would be happier with the 20mph limits if public transport across Wales was immensely improved, as alternative options to driving your own car could actually be quicker or more comfortable. I also think the majority of road users won't follow the limit, similarly to the highway code changes for pedestrians and cyclist priorities at junctions. Which then becomes even more confusing and dangerous to be around. I expect to see lots of dangerous overtakes and people following the car in front way too close.
Following the introduction of the default 20 mph limit on urban roads in Wales local authorities will still be able to apply to keep 30 mph for roads where it's more practical. I'm from Wales and most of the motorists I know who are opposed to the change seem to have missed this point and think it's going to be blanket 20 everywhere. On balance I agree with the new default but time will tell if it proves to be beneficial.
Wales definitely off my list of places to drive to now, though it will come to everywhere, and there will be further lowerings of all speed limits everywhere, more LTNs, more LEZs, more residents only parking zones, more "congestion charging", more expensive motoring. Glad I won't live to see the end of it.
I’m about to go to Wales for the last time. After 32 years of holidays. It will simply take to long to go sight seeing.They won’t miss me, But they will definitely miss the money I spend when I’m there. The guy who owns the cottages I stay in told me he has already pre warned his staff that some of them will most likely loose their jobs next season. Just a sign of the times I guess.
Wouldn't it be nice if drivers could be trusted to drive without speed limits. I'm sure there are plenty of drivers here that wouldn't dream about going above 25mph if there were cars parked up to the left and they couldn't see to stop if a child or animal ran out in front of them. Unfortunately there are also many drivers who wouldn't have a problem at driving at 50mph in that same scenerio.
@@xHypnoToad i dont think itd be too much different as people generally drive at what speed feels appropriate and that they are confident doing. people who drive dangerously do so anyway even with limits, just slowing down for the cameras or when police are there. i think they can be appriopriate in places to make a point, such as school zones, but often times other road signs warn you better of changes to road that help dictate what speed/gear u drive at rather than a speed limit. i think this is clear with the national speed limit on country roads, like yes you could do 60mph down a bendy road with poor visibility and is only wide enough for 1 car, but id say that majority of people wouldnt because it feels unsafe. other times speed limits can feel arbitarily slow, for example, the inner ring road in leeds had a limit of 40mph despite being a sunken dual carriage way/motorway and it would feel reasonably safe to do 60 down it.
I take it you've watched the video footage of supercars whizzing down parked up streets. It only takes one opened door.... They hit around 90 from what I could make of the blurred out speedo, so fast motorway driving on a parked up residential street!
The thing is when the 30 MPH speed limit was introduced, they were different times. Not so congested. Now there are a lot more people on the highways and they have islands in the road and vehicles parked at the kerb etc. Most cars didn't have the power to accelerate as they can now speeding from one bit of congestion to the next. I'm now retired and cycle mostly and 20 MPH is nice because I can filter in with the traffic and cross the road much more easily. It's about the community not just vehicle drivers.
As always, speed doesn't kill, lack of attention (or skill) does. Wales' new limit seems a bit draconian. Looking at the data it seems 51% of Wales' car accidents happen in a 30 zone, most of which classified as A roads. Most weren't at or near a junction, but a fair chunk were. Those junction collisions aren't going to drop because of a lower limit, but it'll be interesting to see the effect on the other accidents.
Exactly. Yes, I see people driving whilst using a phone but far more people drive belligerently because they have a big or new or powerful car or they drive a van and think that gives them a pass. But to quote the official DTp research. “There is not enough evidence to conclude that there has been a significant change in collisions and casualties following the introduction of 20mph limits in residential areas” Atkins AECOM and Professor Mike Maher (UCL) were commissioned by the Department of Transport in 2014 to address the gap in evidence available on the effectiveness of 20mph speed limit (signed only) schemes. Twelve case study schemes were studied, from a variety of area types, road types and scale. Published 22 November 2018 Last updated 11 March 2019
Lower speed = shorter braking distance, short reaction time distance. Lower speed also means that if you do hit something you are a lot less likely to cause serious injury or death. It really isn't difficult to understand. There's an arrogance to drivers, they seem to think they exclusively own the road and any sort of measure that better the health of the community and reduces the risk of death to others in the in the community, it is seen as some attack on motorist... “When you're accustomed to privilege, equality feels like oppression."
@@gitanonumero1983 I think it's fair to say that anyone is capable of being a dick. There are bad drivers, there are bad cyclists. The sort of drivers who are unobservant and hit cyclists are the same ones who're going to ignore a 20mph limit and hit unobservant pedestrians. All the limit does is frustrate everyone who follows the rules in the first place. I don't think a blanket 20 limit is the answer. Better training and awareness would help in all circumstances, for drivers, cyclists, and pedestrians.
Most of my local city is 20mph zones, it's not really a problem, you get used to it. It will be hard at first though as people are stubborn and won't obey, and will be angry towards road users who are obeying the limit. They can still increase the limit to 30 on selected roads where that's appropriate.
A 10 mph change at lower speeds is far more significant than changes at high speeds. For example: 70 mph changed to 60 Will make a 70 mile drive (1hr drive) take 10 additional minutes. 30mph to 20mph will make a 1hr (30mile) drive take 30 additional minutes.
To play devil's advocate, if you're taking a longer drive, you're not going to spend all that time on urban roads doing 30 (or soon 20). I can't think of a drive (except maybe through large cities where any speed increase would be negated by time spent waiting at junctions anyway) where you're going to spend a substantial amount of time on urban streets. In the context of smaller towns, it does kind of beg the question of if you needed to drive in the first place if the entire route doesn't even leave town (obviously I'm not slating people with mobility issues or who need to make occasional time-sensitive trips).
In my experience (driving around London) it really depends on the individual person and area. In West London like Brentford, Greenford etc there are lots of 20 zones (some could genuinely be 40) and most people don't abide by them. However I have driven more south west in Wimbledon recently and Richmond where there are also lots of 20 zones on nice wide roads and I would say most drivers in those areas do comply. I would say problems arise when there are people doing different speeds, tailgating and impatience can come out in people. If everyone is doing 20 then no problems. If everyone is doing 30 then no problems.
I’d like to see the statistics for the number of lives saved in the pilot areas, and the air quality difference made since the introduction of the 20mph limits, there you go Welsh government an opportunity to make up some fictional statistics, I’m guessing there aren’t any positive stats or they’d be shouting them from the rooftops (well from a little set of steps, rooftops too dangerous in Wales 😂)
Seems a bit strange to have 20mph limits on roads with 2 lanes on each side that are designed like through roads. The 20 limit doesn’t seem bad on its own, but it should be accompanied by more traffic calming measures, like reducing 2 car lanes to one and adding a protected bike lane. It does seem like a step in the right direction if further actions follow to make the streets safer
Here in London we are used to the 20mph limit, NOW driving at 30mph feels SO fast. Sounds mad but its true...you still have some still wanting and hornning at you for doing 20
Halfway through and you've demonstrated why 20 makes prefect sense. You've either kept up, or caught up, with all the traffic or still had to stop at red lights, just arriving at them a little later. You'll have saved fuel, created less wear to your vehicle and produced less pollution. If your car can record mpg you should do a comparison video. You may be surprised by how massive the difference can be.
My fuel consumption has increased since the addition of 2 20mph zones during my daily commute to work purely because I used to sit with my car in 4th gear at low rpm at 30 mph. Now I sit with my car at a higher rpm in 3rd gear because if I put it in 4th my car wants to stall and has zero pull. I would always get between 435-445 miles on a full tank and now its been reduced to 395-410 ish. I have a 2 litre diesel which is possibly the most common engine size for a car these days although I'm not 100% sure on that. Anyone that says its for environmental reasons I would say is full of it. The fact that they've fitted an additional speed camera in each of the zones really doesn't help their case either. Safety my arse.
I had thought they would have to do it with repeaters. It doesn't make much difference to driving since the non-compliance is so high. I think the A469 is a good example of the sort of road that should have been exempted.
Im doing my driving in Caerphilly and Cardiff and the amount of drivers tailgating me because im abiding by the 20 limit is astonishing. 20 feels so slow and much more difficult for a new driver to maintain than 30 but I understand its easier to turn, slow down and it helps reduce RCT fatalities.
My opinion is 20MPH is enough in London area where and when is a very big traffic then and you can drive safely with 20MPH but this speed limit is very slow in another average area.
The emissions thing is hogwash! Pedestrian Zones will help. Cycling Lanes too. But 20mph is for an Old Peoples Society. Night Night Britain! Last one to leave put the Horlicks mugs in the sink.
... You do realise it's actually "longer stretches of road" that increase mileage efficiency because you can actually maintain momentum for more than a minute at a time... Unlike on most urban roads. Complex built up areas are more efficient at lower speeds because your not breaking as hard everywhere for every junction and obstacle and can avoid coming to a full stop more often with more time to observe. Otherwise your just wasting energy to go on your breaks and wearing your tires to accelerate again. The most energy intensive phase is acceleration...
Three days in and the 20mph limit has so far been relatively easy to adjust to and the driving experience is calmer. Some councils have been over cautious in exempting some roads but expect over the years some roads will go back to 30, industrial estates for example. But to put this in proportion, a 140 mile drive from Wrexham to Cardiff or Barry will involve only about 5miles of 20mph limit adding maybe 5 minutes. I do think that the UK should not just have speed limits at 10 mph jumps, 20, 30, 40 ,50 etc as there seems no reason why you could not have a 25 mph limit. But on the whole a fuss about a fairly small change although after driving for 40 yrs it is a culture change because the car is no longer king of the road.
I would have changed it to 25 mph, I think people would be much more likely to actually stick to 25 mph compared to 20mph, where nearly everyone does 30 mph, and the few that actually do 20 mph are inadvertently causing problems for everyone else Psychologically 25 mph feels not much slower than 30 mph but 20 mph feels a lot slower Also 20mph is on the cusp between 2nd and 3rd gears, 25 mph is comfortably 3rd gear
Signs in Swansea have gone up for the new 20 zones today. I was overtaken by 3 cars and waved at (with hands in a circle and vigorous up and down motions). I am quite zen on the roads and will just drive to the signs and conditions. A lot of conflict will occur as a result of this change
I think it's going to be very stressful for those that do follow the road speed limit. It was hard enough with regards to receiving abuse from other drivers in a 30mph. 20 mph is going to add to more potentially dangerous and violent interactions on the road.
Not in Wales but in Scotland, in Edinburgh most of the city is 20 and they are trying to drop the speeds of more roads to 20. Due to this driving in 30 zones kinda make me panicky that I have missed the speed signs - especially if I am somewhere out of Edinburgh as I'm so used to the repeaters. I wouldn't be surprised if the rest of the UK follows suit after this is implemented for a while.
Stirling is also rolling out a lot of 20mph zones that are not really needed and making it even worse to drive through it. But with enough people not behaving and driving at the speed limit or at a safe speed, they either get people to do more training (expensive and very unlikely to tell people to learn more about driving) or blanket speed limit reduction to get people to drive slower thinking its safer (which it might be, but does make more people annoyed and frustrated which is bad for driving and safety).
Edinburgh makes me laugh most of the streets are 20 apart from the streets that have a speed camera which are still at 30 as the old gastro cameras that are littered around Edinburgh cannot register 20.
All road users will have to obey this 20mph. You stated that cyclists are more able to pass cars. Keep in mind if the cyclists passes a car travelling at 20mph, they are breaking the speed limit. This means Cyclists will need to be held to the same fines or prosecutions as any other road user.
@@CHEEKYlad_lol True but like undertaking (undertaking is not illegal but you can be prosecuted for due care and attention if i remember correctly), there is a way they can get prosecuted for speeding by use of carless or reckless cycling.
Another thing i was taught was learning is when your in a queue of cars, always make sure you can see all of the back wheels of the car front, so if breaks down you can go around him without reversing
Driving laws in the UK change in keeping with European legislation - this change, as is the priority pedestrians should be given when they step out of the curve, is a testament to that. Regarding the latter, you can see it in Portugal, Poland, Sweden etc. Having said this, irrespective of ecological considerations, the risk of having a fatal accident is the product of the number of cars on the road times speed. Since the number of cars is constantly increasing, the speed limits have to decrease only to keep the risk at the same level as a few years ago! I'm all for the 20-mph change; in fact, all speed limits should be reduced by 5 mph in my opinion (70 -> 65, 60 -> 55) for the same reason (risk assessment). Law enforcement is a big issue; if we (= the government) double the points for every offence and quadruple all fines, there will be a lot fewer accidents and a lot more officers to chase those who violate the law. Dying on the road is barbaric and there should be no excuses.
It's barbaric, unfortunately people are conditioned by over 100 years of nasty motor lobby public manipulation. Unfortunately the majority of motorists are way too complacent in tolerating bad behaviour of the few that set the abrasive tone of traffic.
With regards to ever-increasing road rules, surely 20mph is reducing the number of rules? Before, there were some 30mph and some 20mph roads in Wales. Now they are all 20mph
No I don't agree. Old People making rules for Old People. There should be a Competence Test at 70 and every 5 years to get the dithering OAPs off our streets. If they cannot drive safely at 30mph then they should not endanger our children.
Personally I hope it encourages people to leave cars at home more often! I’d rather have a city with more public transport, more cyclists on the road and fewer cars. The speed limit doesn’t matter much when you’re stuck in gridlocked traffic during rush hour. As a driver, being stuck in traffic is not very fun. As for the freedom argument I agree to a certain extent, but when you factor in the climate crisis, I think we all need to re-evaluate how we view transport in general and move towards forms of transport that are energy efficient. Sadly, single occupant cars are one of the least energy efficient ways to move people around. I’m not saying personal cars shouldn’t be on the road at all (they definitely have their use cases), but I don’t think we can afford for cars to be everyone’s no. 1 choice of transport anymore.
i think its mostly irriating when measures like this aren't supported by improvements to public transport, making communiting more difficult in general. For example where I live they are pushing the use of public transit (which i support) however at the same time the only transit options avaliable to most people are busses which can end up making the journey go from 15-20mins to an hour, also ignoring them frequently being delayed or cancelled which can make using public transit very stressful. This is in a very large urban area as well, and not to mention service going from every 10 or 15 mins to every hour after 6pm, and stopping completely around 10 or 11pm. before i drove to work in the city centre, it was not uncommon for my bus around 10pm to be cancelled which either meant waiting another hour in the street (unsafe as a young woman) or getting a taxi or a lift which negates any eco benefit from using public transit as someone still had to drive in and out of town, and sit in a large queue of traffic.
I just had a holiday in Wales (Gwynedd) and i was Tailgated a lot, notably one was a 20 enforced only during school time, another was a 40mph on a long straight open A Road, and another 60 > 40 temporary speed limit which had no signs of hazards on the road.
It's crazy to see you driving in Cardiff. So close to where I live! I hope you had a nice drive and stay there! P.S I also find the 20mph regulation a little bit too slow too...
I drive that Caerphilly road every week at midnight. I have a black box so I have to stay at 20 while taxis overtake me. I guess it's kinder for the residents to have slower moving cars going past
Living through this nightmare in my Welsh town, one road goes from 50 straight to 20, if you turn left it immediately goes to 60 for 100 yds , then 40 for 200yds , then 60. The only housing is near the 60 stretch. Whole of the rest of town is 20. Ironically the only road fatalities in our town for the past 20 years I’ve lived here - 1 pedestrian killed by a cyclist and 1 cyclist who hit a pothole.
