Bowral Classic - I think whilst some people are focussed on the let down by the traffic management company, it sounds like a big shout out should go to the local Police who still tried to support and create a safe environment for the riders. Cops often don't get a good wrap, but clearly here they were very supportive. 👍
One of the best episodes guys. The genuine honesty shown throughout the show was awesome. First JC's unicorn-esq bike review (Dave Arthur take notes please) where he's rewritten the guidebook to bike review, then Chris' raw and personal chat about his previous eating and attitude to body health and how its changes for the better. Chapeau lads
David Arthur doesn’t review bikes, he advertises them for the manufacturers that sponsor his lifestyle! He lost any credibility as a bike reviewer years ago! But well done to these guys 👍
Wanted to point out a potential oversight on the SRAM vs Shimano comparison. So it looks like the Melee has a CeramicSpeed or other OSPW on the rear derailleur. If it is, I believe the OSPW itself has 4 chain tension options you can choose from during installation which explains why the SRAM RD is so much tighter and less "bouncy". This isn't an apples to apples comparison of off the shelf SRAM Red vs Dura Ace. I have the new DA with an Ceramic Speed OSPW and can adjust the chain tension to be as tight as what Jesse demonstrated. If you are concerned about speed and chain/cassette wear, you actually do not want this to be overly tight as it increases drivetrain friction and wear and does negatively impact the shifting. You want it set based on the minimum tension you need to keep the chain from slapping or dropping based on the quality of the roads you are normally riding.
Nah man, the SRAM OSPWs only have two spring settings and that’s not it. Go review any race rear camera footage and you’ll see a clear difference between chain bounce between SRAM and Shimano. Cory Williams/NationsNumber1Beast’s Redlands Crit footage is a good example. CyclingTips went to Jason Smith/Friction Facts several years ago and they tested the efficiency of clutched rear derailleurs. They found that SRAM’s clutch exhibited no efficiency losses while Shimano’s MTB derailleurs had enough slop in the clutch to exhibit some losses.
Yessss! Welcome to THE Nero Show. Live from the NATION to wear the World Champs of Internet Bantz jersey for the past 16 years! The cycling podcast that drops all others and will unclip and KICK if necessary! Welcome to the SHOW!
As an aging male (almost 50) who has played sports / been athletic all my life I completely agree with Chris on the importance of including strength training in any fitness routine. I cycle 10-12 hours a week with 500-600 TSS so there's no endurance issue. Incorporating 1 or maybe 2 days to do some heavy compound lifts is so important to maintain muscle mass, help with bone strength, and keep testosterone from dropping off. It doesn't even have to entail hours at the gym. Just 20 minutes of heavy squats or deadlifts is enough to make a difference (of course I would also suggest some targeted core work) ... anyone not currently doing it should just give it a try for a month or two and if you don't see any difference, you can just stop. I don't mean to name drop another RU-vidr, but Dylan Johnson has some pretty good videos on the topic that were done many years ago so it's definitely not something that has only recently come up.
I'm 42 and trying to come in terms with this. Cycling changed my life. I was very overweight with ZERO exercise until early 30's. Would lose the weight going to the gym for months and gain it all back. Because ultimately, hated the gym. Cycling stuck because I fell in love with the sport. I just can't get on with lifting weights etc. Need to just be disciplined to do it but compared to 12 hours / week riding I do, 1 hour per week doing weights feel so much harder mentally, lol. I'll get there. I need to for better over all health!
Great comment! Im 37 coming back from severe injury and doing weight training is really helping also with my riding. Everyone should do it even if it’s like you say 1-2 a week.
Came across your podcast a while back but always felt it is too long for me. I was wrong. It`s such a joy listening to you guys discussing all those various topics and even more so during a long steady ride. Keep it up gents
On the Watt Life's video, the Pas Normal rider leader clearly briefed the riders on it being a ''drop ride'. If you get dropped, suck it up and don't whinge about it IMO.
@@thewattlife You were pretty clear about that, it was more the vibe of the kit wearers. Enjoy your vids and am hoping you get access to a Winspace Agile to test as the 'all-rounder'. Cheers
Shimano will always have faster shifting as long as they connect the two derailleurs to a larger battery. More juice for a better performing electric motor. The SRAM motor is slower by specification because it's drawing off a much smaller battery so not the grunt or capacity to run a better performing motor.
St Piran rode the Tour of Britain on rider’s own bikes. Their spare bikes looked like winter training bikes. Not sure they all had the UCI sticker either… But they had 3 Jaguar cars in full team wrap 😅
Kudos on clearly showing off SRAM Road’s clutch performance vs Shimano’s lack of a clutch. I’ve always noticed it in random crit footage…I can’t unsee it.
We have a drop ride in Seattle called the Rocket Ride during the winter. I like doing them because I don't like waiting for people that have bike issues or think people should wait for me if I have a problem. It's the same route every saturday. You hang on as long as you can and it ends at a Starbucks.
My life experience is that tires and wheels have a huge impact on your ride perception. For that reason I believe that a proper bike review should have both bikes using the identical wheel set. I think you should have ridden 1 lap of your test loop, come in swap wheel sets and immediately do another lap(not the next day) and keep repeating. The immediate back to back riding is incredibly informative. The differences become obvious very quickly. Only Tour magazine does this. Everybody just rides the bike as is, which is fine but you’re not learning about the bike ie frame as much as the whole wheel set and bike as a package.
Couldn't agree more, Steve. Apples vs apples, or was it oranges, or limes? 🤔 A great review Jesse, but as you both rightly bang on about the influences from tyres & wheels, not only their widths, it's a meaningful oversight that only 'all the others' should be making!
@@davidlilja9180 Ccache is the bike shop these boys frequent. Ccache built this Melee and they loaned JC the bike. Go back and look at the wheels on the Melee; Ccache - a bike shop - has white labeled OEM wheels and is reselling them. I've never seen that before.
Excellent episode gents! The Kit Brand Drop Ride segment was the highlight for me -- many years ago when I first started trying to ride bikes fast, the older more experienced riders in the group definitely took it upon themselves to "school" the less experienced. It was expected. There were stern instructions, outright shouting, humor intended to embarrass, etc. But, I think all of this was acknowledged as the rules of engagement at 45 kph -- and in aggregate reduced risk for everyone. Follow the rules of the group and we will take care of you on the road. It certainly was macho -- but it was also deeply caring. I agree 100% that these days clubs have a harder time achieving that balance in an era where some of what went on in the old group ride is seen as unacceptable.
@@willmeteora It's easier to drop a kilogram from ya body than from ya bicycle, though I still love my all black, Ti bolts, with Silca Anti-Seize, of course! 'Old habits', they say!
Hi, Melee owner here, I got the bike early, before what few reviews are out were out. The handling was always the standout feature to me. I wouldn’t say either twitchy nor stable. I would say balanced, though it may feel more stable than some other race bikes. I’ve have several tarmacs and those were certainly more twitchy. I will say I think the handling shines on high speed twist descents above 60kph, more than crit style corners at 45kph.
I have the same feeling with the tarmac SL7. My Madone is way twitchier, and the balanced handling of the tarmac is interesting. Would love to try a melee
Re the spirit of Fondo. We got a text 2 years ago on way to Mudgee where rain caused the maxi course to be impassable. So turned into the fastest 105 I’ve ever done - then went and did our own adventure after food stop at the village - still a great weekend
Re event cancellations: a recent State Road Champs were cancelled a few days prior due to a traffic management issue. No refunds for travel and accommodation. At club level, we've had to cancel numerous road events recently due to a lack of volunteer traffic management. So, this is a big issue for the sport.
It’s not that surprising. Given this crazy situation with road works where you have one guy digging a hole and 16 people standing around with stop/go signs “managing” traffic.
for the strength training thing, what about the neuromuscular effect of high weight - low reps training, as well as the stability on the bike? Jessie didn't seem to cover these, but they seem to be things that might have an effect on power production on the bike
Good point about the Dogma. My cousin has a new one and it is hard as nails. I mean it's beautiful, yet as sexy and fast as it is, it will knock 7 bells out of you if you aren't in shape. A "slower" bike that doesn't beat you like a redhead stepchild would be less fatiguing and probably faster for the typical hobbyist over a longer ride.
I saw someone comment this on another video, it seems you can disable 'double tap' on SRAM which makes the shifting faster. The drawback (as I understood it) is it disables the way you front shift with the double press of buttons. Also, theres new SRAM multiclics which look more like the Shimano sprint shifters.
2014 started strength training due to discovering a hip FAI and massive weakness on left side, took awhile to kick in but never looked back. During winter generally more time into gym to build muscle tissue thrashed from riding alot, come late spring gym is 2 times a week but it is more endurance focussed stuff to manage and maintain muscle quality, and it makes a massive difference.
Bowral 24 was a great day and ride with good weather. However the course arrows/signs had been taken down and the feed stops only had water. As always it pays to have the route pre-saved to your head unit and have your own hydration/nutrition largely sorted, without overly relying on the stops.
Re: Strength training and it's relevance to endurance - on the surface it may seem counterintuitive but being stronger (over)simply means that you are using less of your total strength per stroke meaning less fatigue overall. My main experience with this is rock climbing, yes it's more strength focused and uses the arms rather than legs but the endurance gains from being stronger (forearm muscles are tiny and fatigue very quickly) were absolutely massive! The importance of lactate re-uptake and conversion (which high intensity training addresses) can also not be overstated.
1:31:00 I think a difference is that, in a bunch, if you mess up you can put a bunch of people in the hospital. Whereas, if you mess up in run club, pretty much can only hurt yourself.
Would love to see you guys try out a Soloist, especially with all the "aero-ish and a race bike, but a lil more compliant" chat about the Enve - I feel like that's sort of the pitch Cervelo is making with the Soloist? Hope to hear your thoughts!
I think unintentionally Jesse just retired Duraace and Ultegra 12 speed group-sets. I said this when you did that Moots bike test, Jessy should be a sponsored RU-vidr/Racer. If specialized doesn’t jump on it they are stupid. Great review!
I was carbed up to the eyeballs and on my way to Bowral when the text came through. After a frantic few phone calls it turned out it was legit. We did the route at a social pace since there was no timing, which allowed us actually look around and take in the scenery. Will probably be there next year, it was clear that it wasn’t the organisers’ fault.
I used to work out in the gym four days a week but only do upper body and core work, no legs whatsoever. My cycling came from my work commute five days a week. I've never felt stronger and been able to sustain a consistent effort better than that period of my life. Strength training even other parts of my body seemed to massively help me on the bike. I did see a GCN vid i think where they said overall strength training can certainly help towards bike power and fitness. Guess it's the fast twitch fibers and body gets used to power surges
That’s very much my point, different people will benefit in different was ways. I would argue Jesse at 30 yo with his background of elite rowing probably wouldn’t see a fitness bump.
Doing some form of resistance training is important for cycling. But it is more important for everything you do off the bike. Life involves a lot more than sitting down and spinning your legs around in circles. Stay strong, healthy and functional.
Hi Jesse. Upping frame size of Melee will make trail smaller so more quicker handling. I ride Melee and also found if you go bigger tire size trail gets bigger thus slower handling. Probably you need to run relatively small tire size like 28c or 30c for your liking of handling.
You can also tell people things without yelling at them. Not everyone knows how things are supposed to be done/not supposed to be done, and some also don't realise they're doing something wrong. We're all here to have fun.
Sram's push to 10T & XDR, does use up 1 of those 12 (or was it 13?) cogs for an inefficient 'overdrive', but overdrives have worked in cars for years now, regardless of the lost efficiencies. So, that's 1 less cog available for closer ratios. Same as Shimano dumped it's 12T first cog options like 12-25 & 12-28t. Wider must just be better, that's all the big 2 will sell us now. 🤔
I bought a LightCarbon LCR017S-D. It's good to know that a pro team thinks highly enough of the the bike to use for racing. For my purposes UCI accreditation really doesn't matter. Regarding the ENVE Melee, a $15k bike sounds like an opportunity loss. The pulley wheels are a different size. Would changing to a larger pulley wheel on the Shimano make a difference on your bounce test?
Nice footage gents! Definitely a shock when we woke up. Surely you get your ducks in a row the week prior and confirm dates, but hey that's just me. Turned out to be a good day out though.
Great show again guys, as always! 👍 I watched the most recent GCN show, on high bike prices, while I waited for Ep106 to drop. Oh, dear, I won't be doing that again for a while, but the back to back was interesting. Sort out adding that rear INSTA camera, Chris; your event footage is always great to watch.
The ENVE Melee sounds great. If I wanted an allrounder road bike and had the funds I'd ride it for sure. Sounds like it could be a bit lighter but thats not a deal breaker
In a size 58 the Melee is actually very similar to SL8 in numbers - believe it or not, despite the image of Melee as having a tall stack height, it has a 4mm SHORTER head tube and 5mm LOWER stack height, and the head and seat tube angles are within 0.3deg. BB height within 1mm and wheelbase within 0.4mm. Melee has a tiny bit more trail, which may contribute to the increased stability and slower turn in on corners.
Loved Jesse's review of the ENVE. I'd REALLY like Jesse to review an S-WORKS Tarmac SL8. It's like the elephant in the room at this stage. I love my Allez Sprint, out of all my bikes it's the one I choose to ride every single time, but I'd be lying if I didn't say that I want an S-WORKS SL8... I don't even know why!!!
@@gregmorrison7320 there's a few reviews by the big RU-vid channels but I'd much more appreciate the perspective of these guys who actually race (not to mention these guys live local to me and yes they both absolutely blast past me at the local park every week).
10:30 I find ENVE Melee headset upper and lower bearings are both IS52. So same bearing size used for them. It's quite typical sizing so you can easily find 3rd party replacement. I think it's made to livability.
Re traffic management, the tour du Luxembourg a few years ago had huge problems, people just going to or from their homes, huge tractors moving stuff around, and this was an event for top riders. To my mind there are so many things that could go wrong. A driver ignores a Volunteer, a volunteer makes a mistake etc. it seems that
I recently updated to 12sp ultegra from 11sp 7800 dura-ace and noticed the chain slap too! I think it’s because the cage is longer these days to allow 36T, used to be max 28T.
About Fondo cancellations…L’etape Madrid first edition was called off with every single one of us at the start line at 7AM, they pretty much said alright fellas, no riding today lol
You can make RD shift speed more rapid by turning off double tap (dual paddle FD shift) in the axs app and use one of the 'extra' buttons on the E1 levers for FD shifts instead. With this setup E1 is a bee's prick away from Hyperglide speed
It would be nice to see papers on weight training based on the individual's prior history. As someone who previously lifted 5 to 6 days a week for several years, it's hard to imagine 2 days a week while keeping same cycling load is going to do anything. Somewhat like Chris I was a size XS and now I'm solidly M. It was definitely worth doing but it took at least 4 years to gain 15kg and this was before I picked up cycling.
17:50 It's mostly due to high trail figure make it stable when hitting holes. Jesse run smaller size 56 which has more trail than 58. Plus using 32c tire will make trail longer so feeling this a lot. The main benefit of Melee being able to fit wider tire is with its geometry you can tune your handling depending on tire size. So you run wider tire for training thus high trail stable handling, for racing just pick 28c or 30c you will get quick handling bike. See Melee geometry chart there are all trail figures listed from 27c to 35c. This is ENVE's MTB and gravel experience applied to Road bike. In road riding you use wider tire for rear, narrow tire for front. But In MTB or gravel you do want to run wide tire front so you get more trail figure. I feel I'm trying to fill in Jesse's lack of off road experience in order to sell Melee lol😅
God I hope the new Red braking is actually as good as everyone keeps saying, I'm getting them on my Ti gravelbike and the main thing that's been taking the fun out of it on my current carbon one is that my Rival brakes just kind of suck. It's really hard to stop on descends, like I want to ride at speeds where I feel like I can stop if an obstacle shows up around the next corner and that means I'm squeezing the brakes like crazy (on and off in bursts, I feel like I learned proper braking from past bikes and driving at least) to keep myself from rolling off faster than I could reasonably control. I feel like there's something off with my brakes because people say they've had to bleed them once in their life and never again but my LBS has pressurized the hoses to test for leaks and they've not leaked one bit so idk what else it could be. The new bike is a huge investment but if it eliminates just this one painpoint it'll already be worth it to me spending almost 3 times as much as my current bike lol
6:50 I think you use 50/37 with 10-36T. If you ride flat route you really want 10-33T. The difference is 14T cog in 36T cog out. 15-14-13T cog connection is what you really need for flat-ish terrain. (so I run that setup). I discussed this with Dan but he was nah whatever.
14 to 16T was a bad enough jump on some cassettes. 13 to 15T, WTF? Sram helped kill straight-block cassettes, though they used to push an added 16T before switching to their '1x for everyone' marketing. I so want a Sram 10 to 12T jump, NOT!
@@davidlilja9180 and gear jump are bigger in slow speed. For those who want steady climbing effort probably prefer Shimano gearing. Or.... You put your ego away and use smaller front chainrings like 48/35 or 46/33 🤠
Great pod. Off the back of that pas normal ride chat; it made me recognise again that when it comes to ‘being nice’ to each other; that ultimately means fitter riders have to accommodate less fit riders by slowing down and dropping a zone or two. The less fit rider gets the benefit of a tough ride with someone fitter than them; but the fitter rider potentially loses out on getting into their tempo/threshold efforts. I think the onus should be on the 250 watt rider to level up, rather than the 350 watt rider having to level down.
It sounds like the Melee is great for a large portion of road riders and racer - a race bike that's not optimized only for racing. I'm a mid-level amateur racer and a fast bike that's versatile enough for all sorts of riding sounds great to me.
I’ve ridden the Melee with Full Enve Cockpit. 4.5 wheels, ceramic speed bearings and found it to a smooth fast bike. Its noticeably lighter than my Basso Diamanté but comparable in feel. Not a big fan of sloping top tubes which the Melee shows considerably
Pas Normal means "not normal". Seems perfectly normal though that on a ride that has a reputation for being fast, flat and full gas, that some riders might get dropped! Surely it's just a reality check for those that are!
Don’t understand how Bowral classic organisers didn’t contact the traffic management company to confirm the date… in the days leading up to? Just a phone call or email, “hey, all good for this weekend?” Someone isn’t telling the full story. This is insanely poor management. Wouldn’t be surprised if this is the end of classics in NSW. Didn’t the other one get cancelled too earlier this year?
Cycliq Fly6 pro - Aussie rear camera light. 4K video, really good quality footage, and I have had 4hrs+ on best setting. It's a bit hefty though at 150g!
But Chris doesn't care about weight, yet. INSTA get to it, become the best cycling content creator's tool. Just add cabling directly to batteries & extend the run-time. It'd stop the need to interfere with racing by fluffing about with onroad charging & let you add a rear camera, too, perhaps. Just record the whole events, edit later! INSTA, or create a handlebar on/off controller for Chris, then he'll mention the name INSTA more often!
@@ChrisMillerCycling So Jesse has got you to think about weight, finally! 2 INSTAs like your little one? Perhaps INSTA can supply you a remote control so you can focus on racing? If ya neva eva ask them, u'll neva eva know the answer! My Insta360 has a remote, just not especially for bicycle use.
@@ChrisMillerCycling Yes the pro is heavy and no radar. I thought the idea was for some race coverage though. When training I add the Garmin radar or just use the Garmin radar/light. In total the Fly pro + Garmin radar adds up to 250g with mounts, all on the rear of the bike. Can feel like a brick in your pants on steep climbs! I wish Garmin would but a decent camera in their RCT715
I saw a St Piran frameset being sold for £250 on Facebook the other week. I noticed at the time it had no UCI sticker. Just gone and found the listing now, it's your size Jesse.
Firstky Really enjoy the show in current format. Have you thought about releasing the podcast as you do then releasing some or all of the individual segments as separate videos duringthe week? Like 10min bite size bits for people how don't have time for the full show. As I said I think the shows great as is but this might help reach a wider audience.
The pricing is insane. One of the factories that makes factor frames charges factor less than 500usd per frame. There is no magic ingredient in these frames, at best there's 150 bucks worth of higher grade carbon fiber. Absolutely nothing to justify the price hike.
@@pierrex3226 You're exactly right, one of my friends was based in Singapore some years ago and one of the riders he was chatting with confirmed just what you said, it cost him a couple of hundred dollars each frame for his company to be supplied and he was laughing all the way to the bank.
I’m wondering whether your impression of the handling, labouring of speed and comfort would be different if using your own wheels and 28’s. I’m sure what’s effectively a 32 tyre is bound to be more comfortable and perhaps slower? The wheels on the Telao look more aero and may be both faster, less fatiguing and stiffer. Also is the comparison of Red vs Ultegra a fair comparison?
top tier review. sounds like a great bike - especially for a big miles, occasional racer type rider. and that's a large market. frankly seems like the only area it falls short is brand recognition. value matters a lot less when buying an "IT" brand seems like it's their vision to grow into that though - why else would they slap an elite price tag on it. more positive reviews like this, WT success, good mktg and maybe it becomes that in a year or two
Could be part of the difference, especially the front tyre. Rear rear measured with is within 1mm between both bikes, just the front tyre is 3mm narrower as measured on the Tavelo. I pumped them up to the same pressure though to try and keep tyre comfort similar.
At the Bowral Classic, surely there is a meeting the day before on site to go through event day logistics, was no one from Altus there? Maybe they weren’t and someone just thought they missed the meeting
@@ChrisMillerCycling Is an organiser's role just to delegate or actually manage an event. Hopefully some learnings for all organisers from this. Can one confirm all the necessary details are in place, too often? 🤔
@@davidlilja9180A key management principle is that you can’t delegate accountability, i.e. the buck has to stop with someone. It’s Ok to delegate responsibility, in this case for traffic management, however the accountability still lies with the event organiser. So they need to still monitor the contractor to ensure/verify that they are on track to deliver, especially as this was the major contract. Seems like those processes were not managed well. A learning for this event organiser but also others.
Chris or Jesse. Curious if you got the width measurements of the tube profiles on the fork, HT, DT, etc? You can then divide them and get your ratio. Which would be a better teller of aerodynamics.
Great stuff as always. Thanks. To be fair, Saint Piran are the one pro team in the UK. They’re kind of a big deal - and raced the top races like the Tour of Britain. Their owner - Ricky - also owns a bike shop 🤦♂️
They're optimizing within the bounds of UCI restrictions. If the UCI opened the gates a bit, we'd see more creativity to get "the best" results from the rule changes until the new optimum was found again.
Straight vs sloping top tubes: Jesse stated that straight top tubes are more aero than sloping. Go back to the Cycling News aero test , how well did the Giant Propel and Look Blade do? And then how about the Factor Ostro and SL8 ? Both Look and Giant suffer in the +10deg & beyond far more than the other bikes
that shimano derailleur cage bounce is my biggest annoyance with that groupset. My chainstay paint is fucked cause of it. If there was a stiffer spring upgrade for that derailleur id buy it instantly.
Does strength training not fundamentally improve your ability to produce force on the pedals? If your max sprint is 800 watts, any acceleration is a higher percentage of that to someone who's max is 1200W. Obviously cycling is mostly endurance but if it's easier for you to do the short sprints required while racing, does that help your ability to cycle faster for longer? It'd be interesting to see how this correlates.
Strength training is mostly for 1rm stuff, sprinting is lots of reps of pedal strokes, so you want more muscle on your legs, aka bodybuilding training, and then you would practice sprinting for specificity
@@JohnSmith-ck5qk It amazes me how no one that I follow on Strava actually works on their sprint, when I was racing it was 2 sessions a week, all year round.
