Hmm that unplugged difference is pretty big no? In an ongoing effort to keep this channel mostly free of sponsors: here's an affiliate link for Reverb, which if you'd like to use will give me a small kickback reverb.grsm.io/y4pk8us6029k
Huge difference unplugged!! Though I appreciate the quality/price point of the Sire, both amplified and not the 335 has much more complex and appealing character to my ears. BTW, John, great demo, here and in your other videos! So frustrating in so many RU-vid vids where folks play a thing on one gtr, talk in-between, then play something different in a different register and feel on another gtr. That totally doesn't qualify as an actual A/B comparison! (Needed to rant about that a bit.)
John we appreciate your content and reviews, mostly because you do them thoroughly and explained in relation to your needs. I have no problem with you paving an avenue for revenue. Youtubing is work, period. Absolutely nothing wrong with seeking to be paid for work. Cheets
Probably just the wiring, pickups and wood. The chinese semi hollows often use maple substitutes like Okoume to keep the costs lower. Okoume is a good tonewood but not as good as maple. There must be some kind of way for Sire to keep their costs low.
What is so interesting as you mentioned, for six times less on price you are getting a wonderful instrument that really compares favorably, and stands heads above other guitars in the price range.
Based on your previous excellent review of the H7, I bought one from Sweetwater, and I love it. I always wanted an ES 335. But I pretty much play only in church, and I couldn't justify over $3000 for a Gibson. The Sire is exactly what I was hoping for.
You're the first guy in a review that mentioned the ethic aspects of a good cheaper guitar compared to a more expensive American made guitar. Maybe it is an obvious thing but still, good that you bring up that aspect regarding guitars. Cheers!
It's a super grey area and difficult to navigate really - but I guess it's quite easy to find stuff around Cort which I think is some of the more "publicised" stuff where ethics were definitely a question?
I just chanced upon your channel and have to tell you that I love everything about it. Your reviews are breathtakingly thorough, interesting and informative. Thank you so much. 🙏🏼
Haha...when i started the video i supposed that the white one is the Gibson and my thoughts were that it sounds better and then i noticed that it was the Sire 🙂
Great demo John! I love the both guitars. I prefer the sire on clean sounds but with the drive, the Gibson have a fuller sound. I really think they are both great guitar with two different sounds. The value of the Sire, for the price is amazing, and nobody would never regret to have one.
Look at the difference in distance between the bridges and tailpieces. That could contribute to differences in resonance. They talk about that in the Rick Beato rig rundown with his SG.
I had an Eastman T59/v. Played it for one year. Fantastic instrument and the build quality was very good. It was equipped with Seymour Duncan Seth Lover pickups. However I replaced it with an Ibanez JSM100 since I tend to prefer a rounder fretboard radius (7.25” - 9.5”) compared to Gibson (or Eastman) radius (12”). Most Gibson 335s I’ve played have been very good as well. In fact a couple of years ago I had the opportunity to buy a used Gibson Custom Shop 1959 ES-335 (2010 IIRC) at a reasonable price. That thing had the chunkiest neck I’ve ever played. It was still very comfortable and easy to play. I usually prefer bigger necks. However I can adapt to different neck shapes quite easily. It’s great that we have so many options these days. Just a matter of preference (and price) I suppose. In my experience the quality of the Eastman, Ibanez and Gibson semi-hollows have all been great. I would sure like to try one of these Sire guitars one day.
The reason Larry went away from Gibson is something many people have already discovered without knowing it. Gibson's build quality has always been inconsistent. Many times you have to try 4-5 before you find one you truly like or feels right. Not bashing Gibson, it's just a fact.
I have a ‘72 Cherry Gibson ES335, and am considering adding a white Sire Larry Carlton H7 mainly because it’s so hard to find an Alpine White Gibson or even Epiphone ES335, which is what I am looking for. It certainly doesn’t hurt that the Sire seems to be a darn nice guitar!
Nice comparison. Acoustically I hear that the Gibson has more jangle and chime and as you stated, more woodiness. That may be attributable to the H7 having a 3-piece neck and the Gibson a one-piece or just a guitar to guitar difference Plugged in, they sound more similar to each other. Other reviews have praised the pickups as being the shining star of the Larry Carlton guitars. Personally, I'm not a fan of the narrower neck of the H7. Otherwise the H7 is definitely worth the price tag.
The spacing between the bridge and tailpiece is different, might have something to do with acoustic tone also. That Gibson definitely has more girth than the H7. Great review and playing.
Certainly not a £2,500 difference by any means John. The Gibson sounds both louder and fuller acoustically, but plugged in they're closer in sound. I don't think the Gibson 335's have burst bucker pickups - possibly paf's - but a slight tweak of either the amp or guitar's tone controls would probably have them both sounding pretty much identical I think. A very nice take on Just The Way You Are was a nice bonus!
As I see it the Sire is 95 to 98% of the tone ,but it is not there the yet! It's amazing and those 2% will cost you... For me, I would go with tbe Sire...
The only reason why you might want to play unplugged is the B.B. King thing - practicing and warming up in hotel rooms, tho' now we have these tiny amps that can sound like the Ry Albert Hall .... I think the 'tonewood' issue has been resolved by that guy who built 8-10 identical guitar bodies out of different materials, from solid mahogany, blockboard to concrete, fitting the same neck, Fender style, to each body and sounding just one string, same note. He recorded the note and ran it thro' an ossiloscope for each guitar body, superimposed all the results and found that body material made no difference to the sound of a guitar plugged in to an amplifier. All the traces were identical. Brian May has been happy enough with a guitar he and his dad built out of plywood in his dad's garden shed. If Larry Carlton is using a stock H7 - no fancy tweaks that we don't know about - when he can afford to buy any guitar on sale [short of the mult-million Clapton Blackie/Brownie/Gilmour Black Strat] spending more on a Gibson is retail therapy [that's OK] or headstock label fan boy because pickups can be changed on any guitar to anything you like..
Nitro is not porous. It was developed as a covering / automobile paint to keep the car from rusting. Over time, it cracks/checks as the guitar expands and contracts with temp/humidity changes. The reason it is preferable is because it's a very light finish and doesn't suppress the natural vibrations that we feel when we play vs plastic. All urethane/poly...are plastic shells on the guitar. Some are better at applying a thin layer that better replicates the kind of finish you get with nitro. Plastic sticks more to the skin when you sweat...which is why so many companies moved to "satin" neck finish. Your playing helps us determine which guitars are worth buying.
I just picked up one of these Sire Larry Carlon H7 this week. The one with the P90s. Been away from electric guitar a long time but still wanted something good. And it's playing and sounding good. I think it is a bit heavier built than some, maybe explaining the different acoustic sound. Not sure if you came across Ross Campbells video where he put a pair of Mojotone pickups on his (similar, same factory?) D'Angelico Premier. The video is titled 'I Put Boutique Pickups in My $800 Guitar'. When I listened to that, I though it made it sound thicker in the bass, less nasal in the mids, smoother/creamier and less brittle in the treble. And, when you play the Sire BTB with the Gibson here, that's a good part of what I'm hearing, and adjusting the pickup distance made a suprisingly big difference. So, maybe Mojotone's could get you a lot closer to a £3000 guitar sound, for £200 more?
Between these two, it's Gibson. But I played as many Gibson's as possible in a year, both used and new, and in the end bought the Eastman T486. It was simply better than any real Gibson 335 I played. And it wasn't close.
Isn't the treble bleed is the thing makes Sire a bit brighter sounding than usual ES-335 guitar. Maybe adding an on/off switch for the treble bleed will help you get that fatter and warmer tone.
To be honest , sire guitars are built just as nice as Gibson . If you put some Seymour Duncan pickups in the Sire , 300k pots , vintage style usa harness , you’d have a major monstrous guitar on your hands .
Since I have an old 335 I wouldn't say I need a 335 clone, but I must admit my 1981 Ibanez AS 50's are every bit as good, some of the new Japanese Edwards, Tokais, Burny etc are fabulous too. Great playing John, very tasty stuff.
I’ve compared my H7 alongside my friends Gibson 335 The Gibson certainly has a more woody tone but in terms of playability and gig ability the Sire is definitely great value for the money
I think the points that are relevant to me are..what does the acoustic sound matter...it doesn't translate into amplified tone unless your PUs are microphonic....so nope ... Add gain to any guitar and 90,% of the individual tone of the guitar with the same style pickups gets nullified and the more gain you add the more that happens.... (You will now know whether you are a scientist or a believer based on your reaction to that comment) Does it feel nice to play... Do I want to give Gibson £2500 of my money because it has Gibson on the headstock? On a trip to Andertons last week a friend was trying out a Strymon Decco .... He tweaked..I played. We used a Les Paul deluxe, a Les Paul classic, a vintera Tele a 345 Gibson and a P90 shod Sire 335. When I say the Sire beat the rest into submission on clean tone...I mean it ..it sounded absolutely wonderful and was such a surprise to the 3 if us crammed into the booth...it was streets ahead.....so full and rich.. the build quality seemed really good and it was £550 I think ..the 345 was £3200 . Unfortunately you answered your own question a little in this vid...Would the Sire knock the 335 off your wall... Well you already eluded to the fact that Mr 335 himself has done exactly that ... If your not a collector then the Sire is a no brainer..... And lastly you said the 335 sounded a little more "classic" it actually sounded dull and lifeless to me... And if you like that tone roll off the treble on the Sire.... But you can't add the treble into the Gibson without electronic help. Again a huge thanks for your content...Christ your playing is a joy to listen too.
Do both guitars have the same strings? We’re the strings new in both guitars? The LC model is sharper with less of the LC sweet tones, which is why I am asking. Also, do you think switching to the Gibson pick ups would make it sound more authentic or is it the woody hollow body that’s making the difference. By the way, nice demo. Many thanks!!!
The Larry Carlton is proof that you don't need to spend 4 grand on a Gibson 335 when the Sire is as good if not better for $800.00. The Sire does the job the Gibson is way over priced. This is 2022 and there are quality guitars available at affordable prices so it's time to get past this Gibson fantasy of the best guitars made and realize they are good but not worth the high prices.
The Gibson is the earlier "Mickey Mouse" ears version, changed mid 60s to the slightly more pointy horns on the Sire. As it happens I have a Sire H7 and also a vos re-issue '61 Gibson es335. Yes, six times pricier. The Gibson of that era features the slim neck that was intermediate on Gibsons between the baseball-bats of the 50s to the slightly beefed up '64-onwards jobs. It's the neck the H7 is modelled on in fact - while featuring the slightly later body shape. Very nice review with nice playing. The es335 is reputed to be a versatile guitar and it might have been useful to at least change the p/up sound and the v & t controls to show this and how the Sire deals with it. These guitars are by no means "one trick ponies". The realities are that the high-end Gibson is a superb guitar with better string definition and clarity, more responsive to the use of the pick and all of its sounds are easily found from a single amp setting by the use of the controls. It has innate "tones" whatever you choose to play and copes substantially better with gain from a mild "burr" to heavier filth. The Sire H7 doesn't have quite that "last-word-high-end" thing to it's tones or the response but it's nonetheless a superb guitar that no one would cry about it if got one for Christmas. It gives nothing away in fit or finish, it's playability is perfect once it's set up and it's a totally professional musical instrument that you could use to audition/gig anywhere. A lifetime-purchase - it's that good. Especially if you don't want to blow the whole enchilada on a mucho-dollar Gibson. I suspect the big difference is the p/ups and maybe the controls (very good on the Sire) - I think the Gibson p/ups are a step up in tone and responsiveness. You could easily upgrade at leisure because the Sire H7 is no pain at all as it is.
I read an interview with Larry Carlton who said that he had found the quality of Gibsons inconsistent and he had come across Gibson 335s which in his opinion were poor quality but were just as expensive as a good Gibson, while Sires were perhaps more consistent. So perhaps the finest Gibsons are better than Sires, but maybe not average ones. Have you tried a good quality Japanese 335 as from Ibanez or Yamaha? They tend to retail for between £1,800 and £2,500, so you can get one for half the cost of a Gibson but still much more than a Sire or D'Angelico. How do the Sire LCs compare with those? Who actually sells the Sire guitars at the moment? I know Anderton's do, but they only have one shop in the UK.
I recently sold my 335, and used the money to buy a nice Strat and a Sire H7. My thoughts are that I'd have happily paid an extra £50 for the Sire to have a bit more attention to detail. The string anchor posts don't sit deeply enough in the body so the ridges around the insert are visible. Fret ends needed work. Nut looks unrefined. Those details aside it's wonderful. Sounds and plays great. But, truthfully, if I could rewind I'd keep my Gibson. Yes they're expensive but better is better. Even if it is six times the price. As for the Strat. It's getting more attention than the 335 ever did so that says something.
I think Sire's are the perfect "working man's" guitar, or for the older player, or someone that doesn't mind paying a *little* bit more for a guitar that gets it right the first time. I compare the Sire line very favorably to the Fender Player Plus, in that the guitars are vintage-inspired, but with modern appointments, mainly quality-of-life ones. I have a Sire L7 (think: Les Paul), and it's wonderful. I have never played a more playable neck on a SC-style guitar. It's like it's not even there. Rolled fingerboard edged, ebony board, perfect fretwork, locking tuners, solid aluminum hardware, it's as good as it gets at any price. To get a Gibson with the spec sheet of the L7, you'd have to go into their Custom Shop tier, which is almost ten times the price!
Always enjoy your reviews John and what beautiful playing - fab chord sequence and lead lines in the overdriven lead lines section... Do you ever provide chord sheets / tabs?
John, great video. Can you explain what kind of scale / mode etc you're using in the lead in the A/B jamming you're doing at the start? It's very Cliffs of Dover, which I love, and I'd love to be able to explore and learn how to play that sort of thing. Cheers!
Hey, if you haven’t recently received a call from either Larry Carlton or George Benson why would you go for the Gibson? My mint 1973 Gibson ES335 TD, which I bought brand new for $530 is an excellent guitar but I probably would not buy it again at todays cost.
Nathan have you ever tried or compared these to any of the Dangelicos? They’re nice as well. For some reason I’m remembering the Sire however standing out a tad more
I actually like how the Sire pickups sound brighter. Most humbuckers are too dark and warm for my tastes, so i tend to stick with single coils, but i find myself occasionally craving to play a humbucker for something different. Definitely going to buy a Sire sometime soon.
Could not justify Gibson prices to just play at home. Bought the Sire used without a flaw with a 189.00 Guardian case for 499.00! Couldn't be happier. Reverb find.
Great comparison. Thanks. Im looking at a Sire thats for sale locally for $800.00. If i swap out the pickups with Gibson pickups would it make it sound that much better?
Given the price difference it probably shouldn’t be as close as it is. Clearly, acoustically there is a significant difference, but given these are made to be plugged in the Sire is not totally outclassed here. If something like that Sire existed when i was a younger then i am sure i’d have been happy with that to scratch the 335 itch. Larry was (still is) one of my favourite players, and as much as i wanted one in my younger years I simply couldn’t afford a 335 till i had been working for a good few years… (and that was a long time back now…) but my 335 is a guitar i could never imagine parting with, i suspect i ‘may’ not feel that same way with a Sire (just guessing as i have not played one myself)
I was after a 335 - but a Gibson just felt a bit more than I could really justify at around £2k plus used (UK). I'd been using a Gibson SG as my main guitar and like the neck (the whole guitar actually) a lot. I ended up after much research buying an Eastman T486 (£1,500 new) which is beautiful and plays really well and sounds great - you need to try one. Then I bought a Sire S7 as a backup but although it was nice the neck is much narrower (at the nut - measure it!) and after a bit of thinking I sent it back (got a Yamaha Revstar instead). I'm surprised you've never mentioned the difference in neck (fretboard) width in your comparisons. It really put me off the Sire. I use the Eastman mostly with the band but the SG is also a top choice for me - I'm happy with both. I think I might get a Gibson 335 at some point though.
But This Gibson have almost the same neck. It is the Larry Carlton 335 and he likes a narrow neck. If you do not like a narrow neck it is not for you but if you do it is a beautiful feeling neck
Cool review!! The best point you made was when you said if you have a need for a 335 style guitar for a small handful of songs on your list, it's a good cheaper option than a big brand name. If I was gigging with it mainly, I think the Gibson tone was hands down what u would choose. Nice job!!!
Was disappointed, I had to return my p90 H7. Nasty manufacturing errors with neck. On top edge of neck, binding between neck and fretboard. Not parallel in alignment, wide gap, rough toothy edges. Was unplayable, QC should have caught it easily.
Good demo J. I’m not in the same camp as most of the Gibson 335 fans here. I don’t care for the “Woofieness” of the Gibson. You can call it woody if you like. I like a more articulate open sound and the Sire does that for me. Who cares about the unplugged sound? I don’t! I don’t like the narrow neck though.
Yeah right on that's a good point Def a great sounding guitar that h7 I bought one in the same finish last fall and it's rock solid stable too,always in tune to be honest it's a real Rocker too just a great "affordable" guitar I had a 94 Lucille here when she came and it felt like the same quality side by side honest,I'm all red white and blue always but this one is made in Indonesia and that suits me much better than C-#na and I couldn't possibly afford the Gibson,and also the neck does not feel narrow where you notice anything trust me I have good size mitts and wasn't sure till I played one it's very good
Yes it is bit brighter but if you roll down the tone a bit there is not a lot of differens. I like that i can get it a bit brither to get trough the mix if needed. Maybe the Gibson is a bit better but in noway 2000 euro better. I think Gibson is way over priced and if had a guitar worth 3000 euro i do not dear to take it to rehersal and giggs.
I think it's a fair point, though I think a lot of folks do gig Gibsons, I myself wouldn't feel super comfortable taking out a £3k guitar to that many gigs?
I think a better comparison (yours was very good) would be to compare a 335 to a Yamaha SA2200,I've owned one and I've owned a 335 and lots of L.P's over many years and I have to say the SA2200 is a far superior guitar to a 335 at a cheaper price,finish and tone are way above the 335,check one out if you're looking for an archtop guitar.
@@johnnathancordy Hi John,I've owned 10 Gibsons,a Fender Strat,and an Ibanez Artist over many years,both the Japanese guitars fingerboards were the best I've played,the Japanese have been crafting things for over 3,000 years (no offence to Americans 300 plus years) it's part of their culture to do the very best when producing anything (cars,toys,musical instruments etc.) their fanatical like the Germans where as Gibson and others are not, profit margins are more important, so I would suggest that you check out Yamaha,Ibanez,Eastman,Cort guitars especially Eastman their fabulous,give it a go John you'll be surprised.
Modern day nitro has so many polymers in now it’s not too dissimilar from poly. There is definitely a difference, but it’s becoming less and less obvious the more nitro recipes change. Probably why older guitars feel so different, the nitro is thinner with less polymers.
A lot of times weight in the wood is due to water the moisture it contains! The Gibson's are most likely made of wood that is older and been allowed to dry before becoming guitars! As these are New Guitars by a Newer Manufacturer the wood stocks are not years old they are drawing from!
Based on the numerous reports of poor quality control on Gibson guitars, in the last several years, your conclusion is only valid for a buyer who also has access to the rare 335 that isn’t a POS.
Funny, the white guitar sounded brighter and clearer, and the brown guitar sounded warmer. Maybe you should add some guitars to your Stable based on color. Green could be good. Tone chlorophyll sounds sweet. JK 😇
Both beautifull guitars but what if the guitars had both exact the same humbuckers, if I would place high end humbuckers into the H7 would there still be a difference? The Gibson seems to have a bit more 'life' to it, but that could change when the H7 would get different pickups. But accoustic the Gibson is probably better build. The price of Gibson and Fender is in my view not justified. It is way too high, nice guitars but just too expensive for the average buyer. And personally pricewise I think there are just two guitars, below $ 1000,- and $ 2500,- guitars. Above $ 2500,- is no difference only excuses to make a 'boutique' price. And no two guitars are the same. So most players have more than one guitar before deciding wich one is perfect for him or her.
Very nice comparison The Gibson has a lovely woody character in its sound, whereas the Sire lacks that depth and sounds a tad shrill compared Well done
2:55- "This weighs just over eight pounds,...and this one weighs about ten pounds more.." An eighteen pound semi-hollow. John Nathan, have you been working out?
I think I would feel completely different about that Sire if it didn't look like a piece of white plastic. They look a lot better in the burst, cherry or black. But the difference, when you think about price, is so small. Hard to tell them apart in a blind test. I actually bought a Grote off Amazon for 129$ delivered. Upgraded the hardware and pickups (about 350$ worth) and it plays and sounds like my original 335. The tone is mostly in the pickups, as you know. I really love it, AND, I can play it like I stole it. I am always terrified of damaging the Gibson...which is now going in its box for posterity while I thrash this Grote. Sounds like something you might do on a farm, thrash a Grote. I'll be sanding that decal off, who the feck gave it that name! I just watched Tim Pearce's comparison of the H7 with his 335, brother, you cannot tell the difference.
I really wanted to like the Sire as I'd like to get an inexpensive 335 but Gibson wins hands down here for me. I can't get the Sire because I'll be thinking about the Gibson all the time.
![Is a Sire Larry Carlton H7 As Good as a REAL Gibson ES335? [No, but it's pretty good!]](/img/logo.svg){kind=logo}
