Is A Vertical Mouse WORSE For Gaming? 

Hey Dawid! Just so you know the MX master does have the option to turn on clicky scrolling using the Logitech software. You can even tune the clickyness to your liking!

The button behind the wheel on the MXMaster mice changes the scroll mode between free and the normal clicky. The software also has options for auto free scroll with different force levels for the changeover point.

02:21 I have the same mouse, and if you touch the button that's right above, it changes the "flow" of the wheel, making it more like a "traditional" mouse wheel.

i dont get how companies havent started monetizing on this idea more cus i feel like if they make a great gaming vertical mouse its gonna redefine the industry for us gamers

As a vertical mouse user I hace a lot to say about this! First of all, the Lift IS the lighter and smaller version of the MX Vertical, which i have been using for years, better suited for bigger hands. Now with that out of the way, at first you feel inaccurate and slow because you're using a whole different set of muscles in your forearm to move the mouse at a different angle than what you've been doing your whole life, so its only a matter of time and practice to train those muscles up. I've been using mine for gaming always and even though its not the most precise thing in the world, I'm no competitive gamer by any means and it does good enough for my needs. The best part is never having those awful wrist pains ever again! Now one more this is idk about the lift, but I believe i could adjust my DPI using the logitech software, aswell as button shortcuts.

The MX Master 3S does have a notched scroll wheel. Press the small button just behind it! Changes between free mode and notched mode.

I started using the MX vertical about a year ago after I noticed signs of carpal tunnel and haven't looked back since. It's not the most precise to aim with but I haven't had much issue getting used to it and use it for both work and gaming. A fun side effect of using it exclusively has been trying to use a traditional mouse again. Makes you feel like you haven't used a computer before.

I'm so glad you touched on this subject. Having returned to gaming after nearly a 20-year hiatus, I find that my wrist and forearm aren't what they once were in my late 20's. I'm definitely looking into some better options. Thanks, Dawid!

For similar reasons, I switched to a negative tilt ergonomic keyboard. I started on the Microsoft 4000 ergonomic keyboard for general office use. After I got used to it and started to use it for gaming, I found a mechanical keyboard that was **almost** as good layout wise. Saved my wrists for sure.

I’d be interested to see a comparison in an aim labs test that requires larger mouse movements - i.e targets moving 360 degrees around you, instead of ones that are all within a small field of view.

A vertical mouse is way better for my wrists than a normal mouse but I always track back to trackballs for everything not gaming related. My first 'mouse' was a Logitech Trackman Marble FX and I am currently using a MX Ergo. I still game with a traditional mouse, except for games like XCOM, Civ or Stellaris. A trackball is also a good access protection. I had a lot of people desperately scrubbing my 'mouse' over the desk. It will take a lot less desk space espacialy with a 80% TKL or smaller keyboard. You may hate the trackball for the first few days but it was worth it for me.

I got carpal tunnel in my early 20s so I got a logitech MX Vertical and it helped a lot with my carpal tunnel. I just frequently wish they had a gaming version as I've found the big issue with it is that it's not "smooth" feeling (i.e. polling rate is too low). This is ONLY a problem in shooters and every other game I use the MX Vertical

Yeah, having a vertical wrist position does help thats also one of the reasons why i sometimes have an awkward holding of the normal gaming mouse just to make it comfortable for me to hold and play.

what really surprised me a lot was how much dawid lifted his fingers off the mouse's buttons after clicking. mine tend to rest on the button after clicking. man that's some serious movement there :O

Always entertaining! Not tech related but, what's the watch I see you wearing all the time? I'm surprised it's not some kind of smartwatch. Cheers

This was a really cool and interesting video, thank you Dawid. Please keep it up (she said)...! Along this vein, perhaps consider doing a similar video but comparing mouse pads - cloth, glass, metal, etc. And another comparing mouse pad sizes and proportions on mouse feel/game performance. Would make for some neat comparisons methinks!

I've been using the DeLUX vertical mouse (a budget Lift) for work and gaming for a year and it does takes some time to get used to but can definitely be as good and more comfortable than a regular gaming mouse

Vertical mice are very comfortable. I would say there is a learning curve with it compared to a traditional mouse, but overall I enjoyed using it.

Hey mate,nice video! I'm curious about which watch you wear,it looks awesome!

Nice cut Dawid. And Great video as always.

Not really focusing on the mouse for now but insofar as using AA or AAA batteries go, I actually find that that's my preference for mice nowadays once you get your hands on a decent set of Eneloop or equivalent-performance rechargeable batteries. Mainly, I'm just glad that I'll be able to keep using the same mouse (I'm rocking a Deathadder v2 x Hyperspeed at the moment) indefinitely given the batteries live up to their ~10 year lifespan each, and take care to keep each in good health.

I got so used to the Logitech thumb trackball mouse that I was just as good (if not a little better) at FPS games with it. Had a lan party with some friends playing CSGO and forgot my 502 at home, but had my trackball in my bag. I was laughed at and mocked initially but that went away pretty quickly once a few rounds were behind us 😂

the scroll wheel can be switched to clicky mode. install logioptions. You can set it to always clicky, or a mode that releases the clicky clutch when you throw a hard scroll.

@Dawid, Could you do a similar video for a trackball please? In my opinion the inertia of the ball can be useful for gaming, it's also a very precise pointing device.

I agree! The only thing I don't like is rechargeable batteries in a mouse, because it's amazing to be able to swap a new AA on the fly instead of having to recharge a built-in cell that loses capacity over time. The built-in rechargeable cells aren't hard to replace, but they're not nearly as convenient as swapping in a new AA as needed (you have to take the mouse apart with screws, and hope you don't crack plastic). Use rechargeable AAs if you want to save the environment: just have a few of them ready to swap in as needed. I actually wish every new mouse used AAA cells. That would be the perfect design, in my opinion.

The real (so far) solution to my carpal-death-pain (I am a really bad case) has been to use the logi mx ergo trackball mouse - where you move the cursor with your thumb on a ball. I tried various vertical mice and they didn't really work. I also have to game almost exclusively with a controller (the underside paddles on the xbox elite controller are heavensent as shoulder buttons cause me pain)

This man is funny AF and good videos as always. Love the content man! Keep it up

I've had a logitech MX Vertical over a year now, and I love it. I use it for gaming and work, and my wrist feels so much better. I let my wife try it out, and she got a smaller vertical mouse for her work computer. So much better in the long run. Now you have me interested in the Superglide pads. Thanks for your fun videos!

Yes!!! Another vertical mouse convert!! 😄 I’ve been using the Zelotes vertical gaming mouse for the better part of 5 years now and I’ve never ever ever again experienced carpal issues. I picked it at the time because the logi lift was twice the price and I didn’t have that kind of cash to spend. There was a learning curve to it but afterwards I’ll never go back to a normal mouse. The funny thing is that if someone sits down at my PC they have no idea how to use it, like a car thief trying to steal a car but doesn’t know how to drive manual transmission 🙃

IMO vertical mouse is a must have. It feels more natural compared to the regular mouse. Using the Trust Verto I can swing my wrist almost 180 degrees, while if the wrist is horizontal it can move in very limited angle. It is especially usefull when combining monitors in Eyefinity/3D surround setup for 4000+ horizontal pixels- that's a lot of distance for a mouse cursor to pass..

Been using an ergonomic mouse for years, so much more comfortable for long term use. Mind I don't do much gaming with FPS more strategy games so suits my choices more. It did take a while to get used to. Would be interesting to see how your get one after several hours of use. But great video

I just started my journey to finding a good vertical gaming mouse so this was very informative!

No joke, my peak performance in FPS games came when I was rocking an old Logitech mouse with a big red trackball in the front. Part of that was definitely because I was younger, but also I felt like I could react faster when just needing to use my fingers to do so. Sometimes odd mice just work with you.

You will never know how i got this many likes

Very few people can make a sponsor spot that I will willingly watch and actually highly enjoy. Dawid, you are a great comedian. I loved that commercial 😂👍

I've been running an MX Master for a very long time, have always preferred bigger mice like the Naga Hex. Basically the only thing you really need is some Teflon skates and it becomes magical. The side scroll wheel is amazing for fettling my aircraft prop pitch, mixture control, flaps, etc in different keyboard combinations when I'm playing flight sims. Would highly recommend it for gaming with that one mod, new mouse feet.

No vertical mouse for me yet, but using a nice solid gel filled wrist rest has helped me SO much. I bet the combination of the two would be amazing.

I’ve used a vertical mouse for about 2 years now for work. I used it for gaming for a brief period too, but I enjoyed it more for work. But going from my work mouse to my home mouse, it just makes me want my vertical mouse again. I’ll be first in line for a lighter vertical mouse, love em’

i found that angling my mouse pad helped a lot, basically make the mousepad a ramp that is 2 inches high on the left side then your wrist angle more closely matches the angle of the mouse without straining

funny as always👍🤣👍how`s the 64core PC coming along?

Love that Paul Bunyan look Dawid

I’ve had a “vertical” ergonomic mouse for a couple years, at first I found it difficult to game with. Actually, I thought it would be impossible. I tended to go up and back at an angle, not straight. But after using it for awhile, it became like any other mouse. I like it, not for gaming though, although you can use it for gaming.

Did you insert a "Qui-Gon Wow" from Charlie Hopkins in your sponsorship part? Wow!

I have wanted a vertical gaming mouse for years now! I love the idea since I got to use vertical mice a lot at home after my dad had to get a wrist surgery from using normal mice for years, and I just love the feel and accuracy of a vertical mouse. One thing my dad also did to further improve his ergonomics in his workplace was to get one lefty and one right-handed vertical mouse and train to use the lefty version, so he can just switch mice and relax the other hand.

Nice trouser tightening results

Can’t wait for dawid to go on his sweaty gamer training arc

Thanks, that was very formative.

I know mostly nothing about PC, even after gaming for 30 years, I dont understand the tech you're explaining but still its super entertaining and I love binge watching your videos.

That was a really interesting video!

Same I've used Nostromo type keypads for gaming too, can't play without them.

I think your preferred grip also matters for this a lot. I always used the claw grip, and when I do that, regardless of my mouse choice, I find myself with my hand at pretty much a 45 degree angle from the desk, even when idling. Add to this an even slightly angled mouse, like any modern gaming mouse is, and I'm completely fine.

At over 50 years old, I'm looking to avoid the carpal tunnel issues. Thinking of trying the vertical mouse myself

A few years ago playing diablo I kept getting complaints from the family that I was clicking too much and was annoying everyone. I had a wacom bamboo tablet that I used instead and was great for games like that. Took a bit of getting used to tho. Also love the channel Dawid, found you a year a so ago while recovering from an op, oh how you brightened up the days. Keep it up.

thank you for this video i didnt even know these existed. my carpal tunnel is so bad it feels like somebody stabbing my bones up and down my whole arm and it goes numb. i ordered one right after the vid ended.

Surprisingly good results!

Hmmm, I've tried a vertical mouse before, and it was extremely lightweight and very slippery. It actually made my accuracy go down by over 50% (Especially on small, real world targets and applications) because whenever I wanted to click it, the mouse would slide from the force I'd exert to click. I should note that the mouse in question also didn't allow me to thumb-block very well, so it might've been an issue for that mouse specifically, but it was enough to make me not try another. Especially considering I didn't have a lot to spend back then. It's actually pretty hard to hold your mouse steady during a click when the thing blocking your mouse from moving isn't a sturdy desk, but your own thumb.

Okay, but how about trying it with the stationary trackball mice? Would love to see you do some gaming with those.

I have arthritis in my dominant hand, the right, and switched to an MX Vertical by Logi several months ago. Yes, it helps enormously with the wrist pain and after a short learning curve my gaming is at the same level it was before.

I bought a random $25 vertical gaming mouse from Amazon about six months ago and I liked it so much I got a second for home. My carpal tunnel pain is gone and the mouse looks weird enough that no one tries to touch it.

This is crazy I was just about to buy a vertical mouse for both gaming and work but I wasn't sure so I held on and then this video is popped up

Thank you very much for your output! I myself have been noticining some carpel tunel thingys i my right arm and am gonna try a vetical mouse I bought for my mom, since she now uses a trackball one. I hope my wrist gets better!

Yes Dawid, I'm still running through your older content and commenting as I go - I switched to a trackball due to carpal tunnel issues. Been running the Logitech MX ERGO for several years now. Also, my desktop real estate is not great so the trackball makes sense. Ever tried a Trackball? My kid always treats me like an invalid for using it and if he needs to get on my PC for any reason, he carries a BT mouse with him to avoid the trackball...but I like it

You know if you really wanted a vertical mouse like experience, the Ragnok Gun Mouse is a good consideration. It's basically a mouse in gun grip fashion. Pretty interesting too 😂

Love that you are using grandma's rug as a mouse mat! 😁

My workplace gave us the option of having a Lift over a regular mouse, and I decided to take a chance on it. I really like it! It is kind of tall though, and I have knocked it over a few times.

I've tried vertical mice before and never really got along with them. But they are way more comfortable. Do trackball next! For productivity at my job, it's actually a really nice option for me.

really valuable information thx

"Trouser-tightening results"! lmaoooooo I love Dawid and would literally watch him narrate the drying of paint.

That one is nice, but I found the Evoluent Vertical Mouse 4 Right as a gaming mouse to help improve my gaming session length; it works great at keeping the wrist/arm in proper posture meaning less pain over long sessions. I have learned to use it well for gaming and it DOES have a DPI selector! Give it a try, you will love it!

I had severe carpal and can confirm that a vertical mouse did help it very much. Nowadays, it comes back once in a while, but it is not as nearly as severe. Also tried this simple exercise: take the top portion of your hands (opposite of the palms) and push them upwards on an object like the bottom of your desk. This is the opposite pressure that you do when you press on a regular mouse. I find this helps also.

I would recommend you try the mx vertical as I want to see another vertical mouse review from you

Heh, I was starting to have issues with my wrists a couple years ago. I actually moved to trackballs. After a couple months practice, I am just as good in shooters as I was with a regular mouse. The Elecom Huge was my first go-to. Now the ProtoArc EM03 is my favorite. The Elecom Huge needed a mod with some real ceramic bearings (Craft Computing has a video on it), and I feel the EM03 could probably benefit from a similar mod (Bearing size is different though). Maybe a future video for you!? Play games with a trackball for month?

Using my Vertical Mouse now for 6 Months (Nulea RGB Vertical Mouse), and not regretting it. i hope that bigger manufacturers will someday do gaming versions of these things. Not saying that my mice is the best, but its an ok little thing with a nice design.

You could also try the MX Vertical!

I currently don and occasionally use a Logitech MX MASTER 2S mouse and it does offer a lot more wrist relief for longer pc sessions for me. I only game generally for a ~4hrs max and notice much more relief on my wrist and forearm with the MX MASTER 2S mouse even when gaming over my Razer Viper and Finalmouse Phantom

I've been using the MX master for many years since the first 1, now I'm on MX master 2s and will probably buy the MX master 3, it's my main mouse for most of my PC usage but also got g502 and g604 for gaming, I'm very happy with those 3. The angle of the hand is not the only factor, the height your forearm sits at matters a lot too, my forearm rests on my chair arm rest and not on the table, when I just got the cair I put the height of the arm wrest at the table lvl and my hand started hurting after a few hours of gaming so I raised the arm rest a bit over the table and that solved the problem, now my wrist doesn't hurt even after 10 hours of gaming.

I was so sure this would be a video about the 'Gun Mouse', the Ragnok 2. Good video thou

I was thinking about something like you get with the Legion handheld, lol

Hi Dawid, you should try the Joy Con Mouse Thingy of the Legion Go.

Hi Dawid, I am now interested in trying a vertical mouse. Can you also review the MX Vertical mouse and Review it against the MX Lift? Also, the button behind the scroll wheel on the MX Master should toggle clicks on the scroll wheel.

Your hair and beard looks great!

Dawid, you and jays2cents have the best sponsor spots on youtube

Dawid is a master of the sarcastic arts

I also have an Mx master 3s and I use it for gaming. I really like how easy and simple it is to use.

Went through the same experience a couple of years back after much pain and went through the Logitech Lift and equivalents. Very much same experience around recharging and then after a couple of alternatives I ended up ordering a purple "Seenda Ergonomic Mouse Bluetooth". Has a usb-c charger (includes braided cable), works on bluetooth or included wireless dongle and just works for less than 30 quid. Only issue is if you smash it into the keyboard and it switches from wireless to bluetooth. Have been through a number of other makes like DeLux and Mojo but happy with this.

I might have to buy that. I am firmly getting into "old gamer" territory

I've had the Logitech MX Vertical for about an year and a half now and my wrist pain is completely gone I'm also a regular gamer and I've had no issues with all types of games - companies should make more of these mice and rechargable ofc

I have regular wrist pain as well. I've tried ergonomic mice in the past but most of them are too big for my hand size. Might have to give the Lift a try.

I also had some hand issues from gaming/editing I use the MX Vertical for all non-gaming computer use. Definitely easier on the wrist though the switches they use in them are low quality and developed a double click issue in a bit under 2 years of use. And then for gaming I have the Glorious Model D- wireless. I tried a few others and for me a smaller size and lighter was easier on the hands.

I be open to tring a vertical mouse. Mine is ok but something better is always not liked at first. Glad to see it better on you hand and arm.

I use the Lift for daily office work and it has been amazing for work. I keep a Razer Viper for gaming but my wrist starts to protest after a few hours on that so a gaming orientated vertical is definitely a concept I would consider.

You should try some lightweight options like the Deathadder v3 wireless or "DAv3" for short.

Very useful cheers. I've been using a cheap a55 Anker vertical mouse, but have been thinking of upgrading to the Logitech Lift.

Holding the hand in a palm to the side position is more natural thus will feel much better and result in less fatigue during long sessions. WAY back in the day I would spend many many hours playing games with a joystick controller and had no ill effects. Also, I bet the more you use the Lift the better you will get. It is all about muscle memory, including position.

1:37 that's is my current mouse, and I love it!

I've never played a game with a vertical mouse however I have played with a thumb trackball mouse before. I think after a couple of months I decided to go back to a regular gaming mouse. But my thumb muscles were freaking pumped from that experiment! xD

I actually found this mouse & thought it would make a great video for you after watching your gaming with a pen video. glad to see you thought the same

As an owner of MX Master 3, the button above is set by default to change from smooth to clicky. And if you give it a whirl the clicky setting will still scroll freely allowing you to adjust/scroll further effortlessly. If you download the app it will allow you to adjust settings per app. God I love that mouse

Can confirm the MX Master claims :D Wouldn't trade it for any other mouse however... But that button below the buttons (ergo mouse) is the DPI switch right? Or am I missing the point?

I've also used the Lift. A coworker had one. It feels so strange the first minute or two. But afterwards is like "yes, I do like this one"