Is Aim Assist overpowered on controllers? | feat. BulletL

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Both sides have good arguments, after all, gaming is meant to be fun and it's up to you want to play, but going forward, the quality of the gaming experience comes into question when two different inputs are going head to head.
Clearly a lot of us LOVE Apex Legends, to the point we're prepared to put up with a lot because we still want to play, despite the issues (nothing is perfect btw, everything will have some issues), so what is the solution to this problem?
In this video, I speak with Australian Apex Pro BulletL for some extra insight, and also give my thoughts as someone who has played FPS games for decades, including Quake for the last 25 years.
Hopefully these thoughts can help push the debate along, but of course feel free to add your own in the comments below! It's all opinion, really, because until we really put all this stuff to the test, we won't know, and even then, we'll probably disagree, so who knows if we'll ever get it right. No harm in trying though! I'm sure every bit helps in some way.
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3 окт 2024

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Комментарии : 1,1 тыс.

@BulletL Год назад

Such an awesome piece of content from the FPS GOAT. Thanks for letting me weigh in on this topic and being part of the video!!

@RocketJumpNinja Год назад

Come on now, my hype for you was actually true, no need to give unnecessary expectations about me 😂 Thanks again for the extra perspective!

@damsen978 Год назад

FPS GOAT? He mostly plays Quake which is dead. If he was a true goat he would play PlanetSide 2, Ultrakill and probably CS2.

@jorrell279 Год назад

@@damsen978 Planetside 2 and Ultrakill are some of the deadest games out there lol. Granted, Quake is kinda dead, but it doesn't negate his skill level bro.

@damsen978 Год назад

@@jorrell279 Everything you just said is wrong, no point arguing with you because it's impossible to convince you otherwise. So why bother?

@jorrell279 Год назад

@@damsen978 Well, before commenting I actually looked up the player counts of all the games we're talking about here. But I guess there's no point arguing with you because it's impossible to convince you otherwise. So why bother? lmao

@Emaerya Год назад

The biggest issue for MnK is not screenshaking, it's not visual clutter. Imo it's bullet punch. When you get shot at it makes your aim shake and jitter uncontrollably. This isn't an issue for controller players who stay locked onto the target, but it messes up your aim on MnK. Ditch bullet punch and reduce visual clutter and it solves a lot of problems for MnK

@kamiswxrld Год назад

everyoone benefits from it

@ZombieRommel Год назад

This is a good point. I don't think aimpunch is inherently bad... and I think it's needed to offset snipers getting shot in the face and just turning to you like a turret and 1-shotting you to the head. BUT the aim assist should take a hit during the aimpunch 100%.

@RocketJumpNinja Год назад

Oh yeah and even while outside zone or in a Horizon ult, those little ticks really mess your aim up.

@Emaerya Год назад

@@RocketJumpNinja facts 💯

@cjxd Год назад

well said - especially on burst weapons imo.. controller basically simulates burst shots as 1 single bullet in most cases even with the visual clutter/aim punch

@willj3145 Год назад

i remember when apex first came out, there was a way to turn down the muzzle flash by going into the game files. It was crazy how much better the game felt when you werent constantly being flash banged by your own weapon.

@pinknecro Год назад

Then they removed the muzzle attachment entirely because it didn’t work as intended

@The1stGamerCat Год назад

Yeah they also reduced muzzle flash

@edwardchester1 Год назад

Ironically, it actually made the game significantly worse as a BR. Meant that there was far less disadvantage to full auto weapons in certain situations and less reason to get attachments. Instantly killed gun balance and they've been trying to fix it ever since, because it's just too easy to beam with smgs and full auto ARs. AA on controllers is just the next step on from that.

@Fool_xo Год назад

Yeah now if you even touch your config file you risk being permanently banned

@edwardchester1 Год назад

@@Fool_xo I mean, good (for the most part). The example here wasn't a crucial tweak that needed to be made to get basic performance (such as with tweaking net rate in counter strike) but an outright exploit. Was basically just straight up cheating. The controller situation now and RJN's suggestions for fixing it come at a very different time in the game's state than when muzzle flash was still so amped up.

@homi1001 Год назад

If a large portion of mnk pro players suddenly switch to controller, the AA is too strong. Simple as that. There is no competitive shooter where people change from years of mnk to controller, except there is AA on controllers.

@SiegfriedSTM Год назад

I think Apex simply has to admit that it is not a competitive game and that's it.

@ahlebrand Год назад

Exactly. Don't really understand how that can even be a discussion. Pretty clear from my point of view.

@ThorsShadow Год назад

Yeah. It is the same exact thing in any professionally played game. If a class/build is so strong in PvP, that everyone needs to play it, it should probably be nerfed. If a card in a TCG/CCG is so strong, you need to play it on a professional level to compete, it should probably be banned or restricted. If a mechanic like Aim Assist in shooters is so strong, that professionals are switching over to it, after playing mouse and keyboard for years, sometimes decades in various other shooter games, than Aim Assist is too strong. The argument is, that everyone should be able to play the way they want to play. Correct. That's why Aim Assist should be nerfed or maybe even removed. If Aim Assist is so strong, that it's stronger than MnK, I can't play the way I want to play, if I want to compete (in my case, I don't care about competing, I'm just making an argument here).

@fuckyoutube647 Год назад

this is literally already happening, y'all won't stop moving the goal posts until everyone is on controller and then who cares?

@mattfisher1916 Год назад

Controllers= no skill, instant headshots. M&K = high skill, bullets don't bend

@icrashedyourcar328 Год назад

"MnK players should just switch if they think AA is the crutch" has the same energy as "Just use aimbot if u cant fight my aimbot"

@statyk777 Год назад

People parrot that mindset and don't recognize that ruins a game. Using that logic, things like the nemesis and LStar should have never been nerfed.

@TheShizzlemop Год назад

bozo.

@callmeacutekitten8106 Год назад

@@TheShizzlemoplow skill tier gamer

@thesix4176 Год назад

Truth is when the MNK player switches to controller they'll realize AA isn't op and they are just crybabies that sucked. 60% of pros in ALGS are on MNK. MNK is still better than controller overall.

@ValentineNTT Год назад

@@thesix4176 so confidently wrong 😂😂😂

@Datahell Год назад

The slowdown from getting hit by bullets is another factor in favor of controller players. It isn't enough that I get beamed with way higher accuracy than would be possible on MnK, but I will also not be able to reach cover a meter a way, because I will be completely glued to the ground with so many hits on me.

@ZombieRommel Год назад

It's ridiculous right now in Warzone 2 with any kind of explosion. You land on the far edge of a grenade? You sprint past a mine? Prepare to walk at turtle speed for about 5 seconds.

@evias9943 9 месяцев назад

I agree the slow is one of the worst features in apex. Like why is it trying to be a tac fps in that point.

@Oldschoolgamerdad Год назад

I never thought I would hear a day where pro players had to switch to a controller in an fps game to be competitive. I do understand the input of having fun and an even playing field of non-competitive game modes and I am all for it if it makes the community more connected/makes it easier for friends to play together. However, this should never be a deciding factor for competitive gaming and I am quite shocked that this is a thing. Great content as always.

@thesix4176 Год назад

60% of pros in latest ALGS tournament are on MNK. Controller is only 40%.

@unwono Год назад

@@thesix4176 And the winning teams...?

@daydrip 10 месяцев назад

@@unwonohe didn’t respond 😂

@biggiecheese2004 2 месяца назад

@@thesix4176 nice try little bro, almost 85% are all on controller now and the only MnK left are legacy players

@hunatya3183 Год назад

"but if the best players in the game switch to the worse input, then clearly something is wrong" THANK YOU, finally someone other than me said it "mouse and keyboard have so many advantages to be the better input" I kinda disagree, or more like, rephrase it: mouse and keyboard limit the players mechanical skills the least amount/they are the most representative of a player's skill level Personally, I think the advantage of controllers should be price and comfort (no need for desk, or not even a cable), for casuals it's perfect But if you want to test your limits M&K should be the way to go I don't understand how someone with a healthy competitive integrity would rather use the more hindering input but with software assistance over the input that actually represents their human abilities better. They are not esport athletes, they are business men

@ranespider1937 6 месяцев назад

They aren't athlete's stop calling them that they definitely deserve to be called pros and to be respected but they don't deserve the title of athlete that's silly and ridiculous. Athlete: a person who is proficient in sports and other forms of physical exercise. Physical being the key word.

@alkestos 3 месяца назад

@@ranespider1937 Are golfers athletes?

@IamMxfia Год назад

Shroud said it perfectly couple years ago, if it's money on the line like in a tournament every player should play on the same input like controller vs controller or m&k vs m&k. If you don't do that you create an un-even setting to play in which will hurt the tournament.

@NaPH273 Год назад

skins and heirlooms make more money than tournaments. you think company like EA with almost 0 Esport managing experience prior to Apex gives a shit?

@flashjor98 Год назад

@@NaPH273 He's talking about players receiving money not the company

@NaPH273 Год назад

@@flashjor98 balancing gameplay and input towards pro scene would hurt casual playerbase -> less skins buyers down the line

@peledeng1909 Год назад

@@NaPH273 the ignorance is pure with u aint it, its about kb vs controller dumbass

@flashjor98 Год назад

@@NaPH273 He's talking about having separate tournaments for m&k and controller players

@cublyy Год назад

Aim assist used to slow your sensitivity down when you were aiming over people, nowadays it's just an aim bot. It's hard to remove aim bot once you have had it for so long, you'd have to slowly reduce it over time so the general players don't notice and get used to having to aim themselves slowly. Visual clutter has gotten really bad recently in games, everyone needs flashy shit for some reason now.

@AwakenedLoba Год назад

Aimbot locks on a target and don't unlock aim assist isn't sticky it just guides you a bit but aimlocking you can't lock on with aim assist from 500m away aim assist i

@helloyu6270 Год назад

@@coach-This, try being in a close range fight where both you and you’re opponent are using a teammate knockdown shield as cover. It’s so hard to hold you’re aim at the edge of their shield for when they peak. Aim assist freaks out and doesn’t know what to do and the fight ultimately ends up turning into a sustained dps war of who can dps the shield first to kill the player behind it.

@elimgarak1127 Год назад

Apex has two different kinds of AA. Standard slow down and rotational. Putting them together is why it's busted. At the end of the day the leaderboards should overwhelming favor MNK in shooters, that's just the reality of physics when looking at the two different inputs. If the data doesn't show that, the software is compensating for things at a consistent rate that MNK players can't. That's the single thing most people miss with AA, it literally never stops working as intended. It never gets "tired".

@kittycatkiss530 Год назад

I have some thoughts as an mnk player that's tried roller in apex. I agree with some takes. Controller takes significantly less time to learn to be GOOD at than mnk does. In order to be at a competitive level on mnk, that usually takes thousands of hours worth of time. That's the discrepancy and what people do not like about roller; the significant lack of effort in order to reach a high level. Just leaves a bitter taste in peoples mouths. Rotational AA is majority the issue with controller, the zero ms reaction time that will practically aim for the player. I don't agree that someone's dad that came home from their 9-5 should be able to 1clip with ease with .4 or .6 just because they have it. It's not skill. It's not balanced. I do agree about the visual clutter in this game. It's horrific and another reason why roller has an advantage. Bullet is right about rotational AA, it needs to be tweaked or removed. No one needs as much AA as they currently have

@zhizian Год назад

U look hot as F..... I rather hang out with u than play APEX for sure.... With all these aimbot like aim assist players.... I haven't played a game without saying "F aim aissist!!!"

@V3n0m151 Год назад

I believe removing screen clutter and screen shake is a big win if possible. What i would say is gyro controllers are becoming more and more accurate. I have seen some very impressive aimers on gyro controllers and still abusing AA. Controllers havent innovated in a long time in regards to aiming. I believe if the likes of sony and microsoft make gyro controllers this would allow for a significant AA nerf and start helping to level the playing field. Some games like Halo and MW2 the AA is even stronger than apex! Also in MW2 the screen shake and screen clutter is insane. Something has to be done to help level things out. I aim train and practice really hard on MnK to be good at aiming. Meanwhile controller players have reaction times built into their AA.

@roar104 Год назад

Just hold developers accountable to put in good controller settings as they currently don't and compensate with high AA

@V3n0m151 Год назад

I also believe allowing consoles to support controllers over 250hz polling rate would also be a win that would allow the ability to further nerf AA

@SolarLight Год назад

sony already includes gyro in their controllers apex just hasn't bothered including support for it

@flapsonni2137 Год назад

@@SolarLightidnt expect to see you here lmao. i wish more people would be open to things like gyro and touchpads on controller it would actually help level the playing field by bringing the skill ceiling and floor of mnk and controller closer to eachother

@Paul-mv5ti Год назад

@@SolarLight Mr. Solar I haven't finished my essay on charge dynamics and acceleration vectors could I get an extension on my homework

@AwareOCE Год назад

The only problem with aim assist is the rotational assist, when a piece of software removes the need for reaction time you lose all integrity in close range engagements

@shadeshotTV Год назад

my biggest grip against AA as a mnk player is its ability to work through visual clutter and in back/foreground separation situations, for an extreme example i would have to almost strain my eyes to track someone where AA nudges your aim to give enough info for your brain to catch movement and track MUCH easier and really the only "omg controller player" moments i experience is when its so strong that you can't really out 1v1 someone with movement because AA reacts instantaneously to strafes, jumps, and slides my experience isnt just a single game and is situational as you can combat different playstyles directly across all shooters

@Dislukee Год назад

Mande, an ex Apex pro with over 8k hours played, says that a control player will 200 hours has a 50% chance to beat him in a 1v1 at close range. I can't think of any game without aim assist where that's possible. I'm an MnK player and I've spent maybe 20-30 hours player controller and feeling the aim assist for myself, especially at 4:3 sens. I can say from personal experience that even with so few hours on the input, it's incredibly easy to just spray someone for 70-100 damage, and the damage somehow feels faster. And that's without a mag. Times that by 3 and suddenly you got a high skill player getting shit on by a squad of new players. Saying the inputs are balanced only applies to the highest level. Aim assist gives low skill players way too much help, it makes thousands of hours of practiving on MnK borderline worthless.

@Toaster7 Год назад

People just need to spend more time playing and getting better rather than complaining. Is aim assist broken? Yes. Will EA nerf controller? No. Either play on keyboard and mouse and deal with getting one clipped by controller players, switch to controller and one clip those fuckers, or go play CS or Valorant where you’re in a safe place from the controller players.

@neofotografie Год назад

This is so true. So many 'casual MnK players' get thrown under the bus for this shit. Why should i have to aimtrain 5h a day to keep up with the casual controller player? i m also a casual player so wtf.

@hexx_king3340 Год назад

@@Toaster7you unironically commented to get better talking about a pro with nearly 10k hours on apex is your brain working at all?

@vivou5465 Год назад

@@Toaster7 "Mnk player need to stop complaining, they just have to play for 8 000 hours"

@legendarydeadweight6372 Год назад

I actually never though of the visual clutter. Maybe it is the reason i got so tired of apex recently. I credited it to brs becoming stale, but you have a very good point about the stress it puts on mnk players. The instant reaction time is another point that blew me away, it's a gigantic advantage in cqc fights. I am a salty mnk player, but i believe that an input method that requires software assist to be viable is not a good input method. If controller has aim assist, why are scripts and macros banned on mnk then? That said i don't suggest giving mnk macros, which would just make the difference even higher. I believe the only way to have everyone be on the same playing field is to remove aim assist entirely and let controllers use gyro aiming.

@flapsonni2137 Год назад

yes omg gyro aim would solve all of this fucking bs

@eirin481 Год назад

gyro aim would be a fantastic solution if microsoft actually bothered to put it in their dogshit controllers lmao as of right now, gyro aim isn't the standard for whatever reason because some companies just outright refuse to implement it as a feature in their controllers i was recently looking into the victrix pro as a premium all-round controller option for any game, but the fact it's a 200 dollar controller that has swappable components and somehow doesn't have a gyroscope was a deal breaker for me

@legendarydeadweight6372 Год назад

@@eirin481 Microsoft is slow, also their controllers still work with xinput for backward compatibility or smth. And it can't become standard if stock controllers dont support it.

@DIOPA Год назад

One significant advantage of AA on controllers is the fact that you have way less aim fatigue compared to having to firmly grip your mouse and having to constantly micro-adjust your aim. This is a big win for controllers, especially during stressing tournaments and long gaming sessions.

@thesix4176 Год назад

That's the same on controller. Actually fatigue is even worst on controller if they play claw.

@Katze822228 Год назад

What? aim fatigue in apex? In that game you have plenty of time to rest your hand. If you have problems with aim fatigue maybe you need to get a lighter mouse, a pad with less static friction or just grind a few hours of Kovaaks/aimlab to learn how to relax your hand and arm while aiming. I never used a controller but I'd imagine aim fatigue is a lot worse there because you aim with just your thumb.

@Toaster7 Год назад

This is just not true. When playing on controller you are primarily using just your thumb for all your aiming and movement which is much more prone to fatigue than using your arm, wrist, and fingers when playing on kb&m. Sure you may become fatigued after hours of playing but if you’re consistently playing the game, but after playing on that input over a weeks and months your body will become accustomed to playing for longer durations.

@Rosterized Год назад

I feel similarly, for mnk you need to be alert and very focused most times to consistently beam people where as controller you can relax more and even beam people when you are physically feeling tired after a workday etc. Especially when you get a little bit older in age having a longer gaming session is just significantly easier when playing on controller vs mouse. But I guess everyone is different thats just how I see it. When I was early twenties/teens I could just game for hours and hours on mnk without any issues but now in early thirties just a few hours on mnk and I feel like hopping off because I'm getting tired.

@djdjrcm Год назад

When I play roller I can play for hours so easily but on MnK I have maybe 2 hours of gaming before I need to eat and take a break. I burn so many calories on MnK lol

@bobicus7765 Год назад

Its too late for Apex, but I hope developers take this as a situation that inputs need to be separated from the beginning.

@duanelondon6152 4 месяца назад

It was mnk players whined about it

@Fotenks 3 месяца назад

Game devs need to start pushing gyro aim

@Zesuto3 Год назад

My ideal solution to m&kb vs controller, is to remove aim assist and add support for gyro controls on future titles. Gyro controls bring skill back to fine aim in controller, while they remove the disadvantages mentioned like joystick zeroing or fixed sensitivity speeds. I'm mainly a M&KB player, but I've tried gyro controls where available and honestly I'm preferring them.

@BJgobbleDix Год назад

This. Gyro Aim is heavily prevalent over on Nintendo games, especially in the competitive scene for Splatoon. They actually recognize its benefits. Would be nice if MS actually just released their controllers with the technology to have Gyro Aim as well. They are so behind in potential technology for controllers...

@offlas32 Год назад

top gyro aim is still a little bit behind mouse aim, long range 30ms rotational aim assist on gyro would solve all our problems. also clutter shouldnt be a feature on any game, console or pc.

@excesssum Год назад

Was gonna male a comment just like this. But realistically it would only help in the casual/matchmaking scene. In the pro scene the lower accuracy and speed of gyro would become too obvious of a gap. But yeah, the only proper solution is to stop pitting 1:1 input players against aim assist players, as these two approaches are fundamentally incompatible, especially at the higher tiers of play.

@ReasonableSwampMonster Год назад

Casuals would see a stark decrease in performance and complain in droves until it got reverted 100%

@kaykier Год назад

@@excesssum Competitively, controllers and m&k should not be played together at all. There's zero competitive integrity when you have .4 aim assist and over half the pro scene switching to controller for the aim assist. Valorant, as well as CounterStrike, have no aim assist and their playerbase thrives off of this because of it.

@SDXStudio Год назад

What a great video Zy. I've been around much like you, from the early days. I played Quake 3/CS for countless hours, but the big turn around for FPS was when Halo was released for XBox. Then practically EVERYONE I knew was playing FPS. It took me a while to get used to controller, but when XB-Connect and Halo for PC finally allowed us to play via link with my friends on XBox, it was a shut out. It was my and one other person on PC, and the rest on their individual XBoxes. And it was a slaughter. So much so that they wouldn't play with us. Of course when we were all on XBox, it was much closer to a fair fight. This led most people to believe that mouse and keyboard was "better". But I think that's the wrong way to put it. I think (at those times) mouse and keyboard was EASIER to get good with. If that makes any sense. These days, with aim assist being as strong as it is, it certainly feels like it's easier to pick up controller.

@pinknecro Год назад

Thank you for saying jitter aiming is an exploit, Ive seen many people arguing that its “intentional” game design, when in any other game, shaking your mouse rapidly would only get you killed.

@xmetallica21 Год назад

No one is arguing that jitter aim is intentional. Everyone uses smoothing now including controller players where smoothing is much easier.

@RowOfMushyTiT Год назад

@@xmetallica21 But i think it is intentional so you can track left to right easier vs. shooting at a stationary target.

@Visstnok Год назад

If you remove the recoil smoothing that jitter aim relies on, it'll actually hit controller much harder. I think it should go. Like he said in the video, it's terrible game design.

@CrazySuperJEBUS Год назад

@@xmetallica21smoothing is intentional. It was made for exactly the purpose it is used.

@steamedcream7671 Год назад

Add it to the massive list of unintentional things being used by players in this game... Super gliding being based on frame rate is imo the most obvious of them all. The game really needs to clean up all these unintended things by either removing then, or redesigning them in a manner which makes sense and is intentional. Basically, respawn has to give an actual fuck about the integrity of their game...

@grzesiekl.8776 Год назад

First of all, thank you for the video! I wasn't aware of the problems regarding the camera shake you brought up and they are a really important factor! I think it would have been beneficial to invite more people to a discussion, just to hear different points of view, as I personally completely disagree with the "adapt or get left behind" stance, if there is a need to adapt to play roller it shows that there is something wrong with the balance. To be clear, I am not against AA for controller, it needs AA, I think it needs to change so that it manipulates the micro moves you make instead of aiming for you.

@RocketJumpNinja Год назад

If this video does well and people want to have the debate, I'd love to talk to some controller players as well, then if needed, have an actual debate as like the third video maybe. Could be cool. We'll see! And to clarify Bullet's position ... that's from a pro's point of view, because he has to think that way. For the rest of us ... yeah we can give more time and attention to the potential flaws in the game. He just has to try win, regardless of circumstances.

@plagx3428 Год назад

We shouldnt also ignore the more casual players who dont aim for or cant reach high levels. I find it way more fun using mouse and it feels unfair to me playing against someone who has aim assist. I personally dont care which one is better, mouse or controller. Just set them aside, as the guy in the video said. Also the thing he said that "you either adapt or get left behind"- true but that is for the pro scene. I dont wanna master another input system that I dont enjoy just cuz it will give me the advantage. It is not fair thus it is not fun.

@RocketJumpNinja Год назад

Yeah for sure, he was speaking purely from the pro perspective, as he should, and that's why I wanted him in the vid. I was giving the more "casual" side of things to help balance.

@hoodieninja1642 Год назад

@@RocketJumpNinja They say adapt or get left behind but honestly when it comes to the pro scene it should be skill based, and the only skill to AA is learning how to abuse it. I get why they have it to appeal to casual players making them think they are good and keep playing. I cannot speak on Apex but the AA needs a nerf in COD for sure.

@rzt430 Год назад

@@hoodieninja1642 as someone who played both games, put this into perspective. apex is a game with x10 more movement tricks than COD and the mechanical skill ceiling is largely fixated on that movement. it is harder to shoot someone who moves well in apex than someone who moves well in COD. now imagine all the practice you put in this movement be negated because controller tracks that movement anyways with little input from the player. it -destroys- the whole point of apex. so yeah it needs a nerf in both games. if you can't have movement in apex why would you play it over a different game that has better gunplay?

@jasonhurdlow6607 Год назад

Yeah, when he said that it really irked me. I can't stand playing shooters on controller. I shouldn't have to use it to play the game I love effectively. They need to do something to balance things out. Way too often I get beamed in my mid-tier lobbies in a way only a Pred should be able to do, and it's just not fun. Dial that stuff back until we have balance in the force.

@Jeff-cn9up Год назад

Something always bothered me that prevented me from trying Apex, and I think you figured out what my subconscious was telling me: it's too much flashing, jittering, and moving elements in the way of my focus. In a singleplayer game I can take a break, but in a game like this it's just full time disconcerting input deliberately getting in the way.

@Teh-Penguin Год назад

One comment I have to this is: you're not most of the players. You clearly have a very refined aim and I think this is the reason why controllers don't bother you as much. For the average joe who's decent but just plays for fun - the auto aim feels like impossible to beat in certain situations.

@statyk777 Год назад

It doesn't matter how good you are on mouse and keyboard, you will never have 0ms response to changes in strafe. The gap is exacerbated more the lower the skill level, there really is no "getting better" to human limitations.

@magicalchicken5667 Год назад

@@statyk777 Something to consider is that despite the instant direction changes, you still have to aim/react in the direction of the enemy's strafe on your own, it only tries to keep you (around) them, still have to push your stick over the other direction which takes a non-zero amount of time and is very easy to over-correct if doing it fast. Just trying to make sure this part of it isn't ignored like it often is.

@statyk777 Год назад

@@magicalchicken5667 Yes you do still have to react however because that initial bit is done for you by aim assist, by the time you do react accordingly your cursor won't have completely left their hitbox if at all. Comparatively on mouse the moment someone changes direction, your crosshair has completely left the target and you are actively missing bullets. As for it being "easy" to overcorrect, because the slowdown and the rotational are always in effect it is actually quite hard to overcorrect unless you are playing extremely high sens which no top controller player does.

@magicalchicken5667 Год назад

@@statyk777 It's easy to overcorrect because as the enemy is moving they can actually exit (or reach the edge of) that AA radius, it doesn't track the movement fully unless they're in your face (even then, the tracking isn't crazy here either) The friction only makes it hard for the aim to leave that radius when up extremely close (target can strafe out of this easily), it tapers off very fast, as does the rotational portion. Also, I can't get anywhere near the amount of AA tracking that some people do when testing, not sure what's up with a lot of the extremely perfect AA tracking clips. In fact, it entirely stops trying to track when they're in your face weirdly enough.

@AkiDarkWolf Год назад

As someone who never touched a controller and has master level aim on MnK I did the challenge and played at least 1 hour of controller every day for 1 month. Yes, there is downsides with reaction times and movement. If the AA locks on a target, they are pretty much gone already. They can keep it in game, that’s fine but separate the inputs. The playerbase is big enough to have MnK and Controller separated. Just like it was at the start of the game.

@Joe_Silly Год назад

I think the big console devs need to start making controllers with a touch pad for the right stick, or even implement gyro controls Might sound like I'm trolling but I genuinely think those options are the future for controllers and have the potential to eliminate or heavily nerf aim assist

@flapsonni2137 Год назад

yes this please

@tekgeekster Год назад

this is how I play anyway

@zerocore_ Год назад

I couldn’t agree more. Besides the fact that gyro is a slept on technology that can act as mouse input and could replace AA altogether, I feel the conventional console controller has been relatively stagnant since the PS3 and Xbox 360 days (which is almost 2 decades ago mind you), despite their obvious flaws and limitations when it comes to modern gaming habits. Think about it. Most of the innovation around controllers is done by third parties these days, not the console manufacturers, and Valve basically upstaged any of the official “pro” controllers made by Sony and Microsoft with the release of the Steam Deck (and Steam Controller before it). Those “Pro” controller usually cost almost half what the console they are used on costs, and they are *less* versatile on their home console than a stock DualShock, DualSense or even Switch joycon + Steam Input setup on PC.

@wanshurst2416 Год назад

there is a gyro controller from XIM which is quite nice

@justarandomperson3700 10 месяцев назад

@@zerocore_ I'd say controller innovation halted even before that. The most notable thing about the gen 7 controllers (excluding the Wii. Nintendo are always trying new things) was that they were wireless. Other than that they were used in the exact same way as gen 6 controllers. Xbox turned the black and white buttons into bumpers, and Sony added the Sixaxis feature, which was an attempt, but was mainly used in hollow ways that didn't add much to the games that used it. Last major upgrade that I can think of was the introduction of analog sticks to the PS1 controllers halfway through that console generation, which forced people to buy new controllers to play games that required analog sticks. If gyro ever becomes mainstream, Xbox players may end up being forced to upgrade.

@massivedeemon7972 Год назад

I think you're 100% right, they've made it a horrible experience for mouse and key while making casual controller players gods... It's such a stupid thing... I'd like for someone over at Activision to remove aim assist for controllers for a weekend, so controller players will figure out just how shite they truly are. They'll never do that though. Turning aim assist down even a quarter from how high they have it turned up now would be a good start for M&K. Great video RJN 👍

@Manakuski Год назад

This issue ain't nearly as bad in Apex as it is in Call of Duty these days, however Call of Duty can't really be considered a "competitive" game in the same sense as Apex is. In Call of Duty the aim assist can work like a literal aimbot and the visual clutter/visual recoil for MnK is just insane. Mouse and keyboard just can't compete due to the same issues that plague Apex.

@N7Ronin Год назад

Even Halo on PC has this huge problem, especially Reach. Me and my team had to completely leave the game since at high rank it was impossible to compete against controllers, they legit cannot miss a headshot. I heard that they included input matchmaking etc, but playerbase went so low that it's really hard to find people anyway if you put only M&K, rip.

@barbuganot Год назад

@@N7Ronin Well it's not like it's surprising in the case of Halo. It's largely been a controller input shooter for the entirety of the franchise lifespan. That combined with it's high time to kill where there's less room for error without aim assist and yeah, it was always going to be messy with controllers vs mnk. The only "solution" 343 could come up with is so far is they added aim assist for mnk too though not as strong.

@zatchbell366 Год назад

cod and halo are just controller shooters anyways like valorant and csgo

@THEWILLY417 Год назад

Aim assist is just the result of trying to fix the lack of innovation in controllers. Since Dualshock 1 the only thing that's changed is the addition of triggers otherwise it's pretty much the same controller layout for all platforms even though they added gyro to some controllers, Microsoft still sells the most basic barebones controller with 2x AA's in the box. If you are supposed to create a control scheme for your game that will work on every console then aim assist seems like the easiest thing to implement, this is why games like Apex and Fortnite suffer from aim assist being too strong. So in the end it's because some controllers didn't catch up with the competition that we are stuck with games helping players aim better because their controllers just aren't as good devices as they could be.

@HollowRick Год назад

Steam controller was really pushing the boundaries unfortunately people didn't want to Adapt

@thenry3600 Год назад

No innovation is there. Gyro activation would lay it all to rest.

@justthere845 Год назад

@@thenry3600but unfortunately xbox controllers by default don't even have gyro.

@fuckyoutube647 Год назад

No, aim assist is the result of corporations realizing that if they make the game as casual friendly and oriented as possible, they make more money.

@eirin481 Год назад

i'm an mnk player that gets obsessed over portable gaming peripherals, so the steam deck was an amazing investment because of how valve was at least attempting to innovate the jack of all trades pad, good gyro aim included issue being, the thing is a literal computer in your hands so it's quite hefty, so not ideal for aiming beyond playing something more casual, which is fine, especially since you can just hook up other controllers to it that being said, i legitimately think sony's new premium controllers are the closest thing we have to something that checks all of those boxes, besides the d-pad being mushy and its durability being questionable at best and fragile at worst

@Finlandpro1 Год назад

there is no debate. you should never get any "help" from the game in any form

@Finlandpro1 Год назад

i agree about the clutter in apex tho, its like having epilepsy attack trying to play that game

@chikupa Год назад

I think that the nature of recoil/spray patterns is also a huge part of why aim assist is so strong. When Apex makes every bullet slightly move your camera in a different direction, aim assist automatically making slight corrections for EVERY BULLET helps immensely. This is why, for example, if you watch top MNK players playing casual, even if they perfectly read the lower-level players movements, they will miss 2-3 bullets of the spray from recoil/reaction time to the enemy's strafes, whereas top controller players can consistently hit sprays where they don't miss A SINGLE BULLET. This was especially noticeable when guns like the R301 was meta; due to it's low recoil, the aim assist corrected the recoil so that top controller players like ChaoticMuch and others could hit crazy sprays very often, and no one could replicate it on MNK. Combine this with aim-punch and visual clutter, and this makes close-range SMG fights feel so frustrating for MNK players. The problem is, I have no clue how they would go about making controller sprays more like MNK sprays. The nature of a joystick is just so different than a mouse's.

@magicalchicken5667 Год назад

As far as I can tell, the aim assist doesn't actually react to recoil movement, in addition to being able to remove all vertical recoil on both inputs by just aiming left or right so it probably wouldn't have been the biggest deal even if it was the case.

@Amphrite013 Год назад

Hot take: They should remove aim assist completely and implement gyro aim. Everyone would have raw aim and controller would still be very competitive.

@zoratu3188 Год назад

xbox controllers dont have gyro though

@ohpeep3723 Год назад

@@zoratu3188 xbox controllers are mostly overpriced also, they break so easily

@caliaquatics3076 Год назад

@@ohpeep3723 PS controllers are shit imo. I have inconsistencies with both my PS5 controllers. My og xbox controller has had zero issues and has worked for years now.

@ohpeep3723 Год назад

@@caliaquatics3076 not for me and my friends though

@carlossaunders3130 Год назад

Gyro is the best solution but not the only solution removing AA from PC lobbies entirely will not only detour people from not playing PC at all but completely segrate the community and also cripple respawn pockets people always talk about rainbow six nobody plays that dumb guck n overwatch guns barely has recoil

@ChronicalV Год назад

i think you definitely summed up perfectly why i love watching god-tier aimers and movement players and think i want to play apex, but then jump into the game and hate it. It's not just that they're good, but that in the clips they choose to use in videos, they have risen above all the forced camera movement and visual clutter and it looks so smooth. But in reality most of the time those things will get in the way for everyone, they've just curated these clips where it either isn't an issue or they're lucky and manage to aim through it. When you try to do what they do it's infuriating because the thing that is hindering you is not your own skill but something outside of your control.

@SteamControllerPlayer Год назад

Your controller has gyro, try giving it a whirl. Though valves software has been trash for years but it should give you the rough experince.

@BrotherO4 Год назад

the solution is simple. Gyro aiming on controllers. anyone that has USE gyro aiming (like steam controller, ps5, pro controller on PC with steam input) knows its like 90% of aiming with a mouse.

@HollowRick Год назад

This ^^^

@thenry3600 Год назад

I agree, the issue is still the skill gap and investment to learn to use it. I think something like that needs to be required with perhaps a new title where it sets the expectation. If you suddenly take casuals abilities away where they can't perform to the standard they're used to, they'll quit. So it's the answer, how it deployed and made a requirement is a different issue.

@BJgobbleDix Год назад

Gyro Aim. Nough said. The fact AA is so overpowered that the competitive scene has transitioned from MnK to sticks says it all. Gyro Aim mimicks a mouse for controllers and if implemented well, its highly intuitive and reactive while having the ability to cut out jitters. Ive heard that the Alpakka controller is amazing since it uses 2 Gyroscopes in its controllers (one in each handle) and is super intuitive. More devs (and players) should embrace gyro aim as an input type. Ive used it for some time now as a couch controller player.

@zuffin1864 Год назад

i love your non mouse review videos, always so detailed, informative, and relevant

@deanz_ Год назад

Best video on the topic I've seen yet. Great work!

@speedyboy86 Год назад

I started playing apex on PS4 and I was beeming and lasering people. Then I bough my first PC and started playing with mnk. It took me around 1 year of practice, 300+hours in aim trainer to get to the aim level I got with controller kinda.. And its not even consistent at all. But then I needed to learn the movement as well. Get used to the keyboard on the left also.. It got me so annoyed that I quit playing apex, because I though it doesnt matter how much I practice.. I'll never be on the level of a controller player, because they don't have to practice that much as be better then you in aim. I switches to CS and valo, because of that. where I can only play against mnk player and I saw myself dominating. I hate apex for all the controller player, it really took the fun of me. Sometimes after a hard day I just want to chill and play my favourite games, but you can't do that in apex. A controller player will kill you so chilled he could sleep and beem you. On mnk you can practice as much as you want.. without focus you will kill no one. It's just not fun at all if you need to actuall tryhard to get kills while the controller players can just play and will kill you.

@FuzzNiner Год назад

Based on my comparison, the best way to explain AA’s advantage is that on controller it’s more forgiving for imprecise aim. Like with MNK you have to be more precise with aiming and compensating for things like bullet travel. But on controller there’s times where shots hit when maybe it shouldn’t. And with ALC you can basically “tune” out overshooting your aim.

@heart7676 Год назад

My main issue with aim assist is that if feels like it completely removes recoil. Another one is it appears there are no ifs/conditional codes included on aim assist (smoke, stuns, etc.). Its like the devs are lazy and put in there if within this bubble aim will always be in the middle. Also it shouldn't magnetize. For me for aim assist to be fair (there is still decent skill involved) it should just slow down the aim to stay in place.

@WildSaber Год назад

Controllers need to change with the times. I think that AA is a bandaid that just doesn't cut it anymore, it needs to be replaced with gyro.

@mobas07 Год назад

The problem with this is that different games handle aim assist in different ways. Some games I've played literally feel like you have aimbot while others it doesn't make a massive difference. For example I played with the same controller on fortnite mobile and on PC and by comparison mobile literally felt like it was aiming for me. So I think aim assist is necessary to have controller be at least somewhat viable against keyboard and mouse but it shouldn't be so broken that keyboard and mouse become completely obsolete.

@wes4565 Год назад

There’s nothing I can add to an already amazing video. Thanks for the hard work that was put into it.

@qwertyg3666 Год назад

A really interesting take that I have not really heard before and one I think has a lot of merit, however, until rotational aim assist has a latency added to it to make it less instantaneous I think it will still reign supreme. One other thing I think needs to be mentioned is the casual/new player. To have good tracking on a controller takes very little investment. A months worth of evenings. To develope the same competency on mnk takes hundreds of hours. That ought also to be a consideration. Aim assist makes it all but impossible for a new mnk player to compete and will drive many away long before they reach the competency to compete with an average controller player let alone a highly skilled one.

@itstime5138 Год назад

It also cancels out recoil

@MtarX_Legends Год назад

The main issue with aim assist especcially in Apex is ability to tracking enemy while your apponent strafes. Even the best apex players cant predict every strafe enemy gonna make, when controller players track it 100%. Sad part if we devs rid of the aa player base gonna strugle a lot, i think it might be better if aa would be like 20-15% on pc

@griffin1366 Год назад

12:17 - Yep. Visual clutter, visual recoil etc. has crept into FPS games and it's super annoying. Most games require a centre point / crosshair to keep track... One game (Battlefield V) was tied to weapon sights rather than centre screen, so when moving it wasn't centre. Spread-to-recoil conversion as well meaning the gunplay was random. Lol!

@Viralbutnotyet Год назад

crazy thing I've been gravitating towards the single shot guns as well, I never realized it but you're totally right the camera movement has been killing us.

@StingrayOfficial Год назад

I flat refuse to buy/play games that force you to play with aim assisters. I want a 1:1 matchup, if the enemy player owns me, at least I know they are ACTUALLY BETTER than me. I think you said it best, controller players are gamer dads who just want to have fun after work and aren't very competitive.

@BIackSkillX Год назад

I am so happy XDefiant will not only have an toggle for crossplay, but also for input-based matchmaking.

@daniellozobia5386 Год назад

Actually, even for fighting games, keyboards are turning out to be better than people thought traditionally and newer fighting game controllers are inspired by keyboard inputs (no joy stick or dpad).

@RocketJumpNinja Год назад

Oh it's not just me that complains the moves aren't working on controllers? I thought I was just bad, but yeah I actually found it easier on keyboard. That's coming from someone who played Street Fighter II on arcade as a kid and then Alpha 2 on Playstation as a teen.

@rafitosz Год назад

@@RocketJumpNinjaOn ssb melee for example, its kind of the exact opposite from this video, people started to use keyboard-style inputs (Boxx as an example), and I've heard the debate is a little heated

@khoslaaccount Год назад

Really well done video, Zy. Summarizes why I feel so drained after playing Apex (something I don't feel after other mainstream FPSes). Oh, not to mentioned it is extraordinarily hard to see people in this game (at max FOV which I think is generally the right way to play). Leads to an insanely straining experience overall. But really solid gameplay... so there's that.

@flashjor98 Год назад

I've always believed that the rotational AA was a little too strong on controller, but I never really considered the jerky camera and recoil difference. I thought it was because mouse input was more direct and it was my aim being shaky.

@7amagotchi Год назад

It's so nice to hear about what my friends and I have been discussing for more than three years, when I come after training in kovaak's, I can't shoot, not because I don't know how, but because I don't understand where to shoot

@8lec_R Год назад

I learnt aiming fundamentals in CSGO over a period of 4 years. After a year of playing Apex, I can comfortably say my aim is in the exact same place as before. I've gotten better at handling weapons, but my aim is the exact same. I haven't given it much thought but this video is a start.

@mattymoyouknow202 Год назад

Stopped playing apex a year ago after 5,000hrs. Got tired of all the visual bullshit resulting in guess situations and all the little bugs/exploits/issues adding up into a slow burning perpetual frustration. Best decision I ever made in my gaming life. Much happier now.

@DonScrub Год назад

It's not about competitive integrity in these crossplay fps games. It's about money... If these company's allowed their player base to see their actual raw skill the player retention would drop. It would effect their bottom line so I know it won't change.. They got to keep the illusion of skill alive to farm people for cash. Billions to be made in these crossplay games. 0 ms tracking on strafing targets, while its making all the micros adjustments even if they are lagging is insane.... At this point I see no need to respect controller as in input at all.

@kami3449 Год назад

As someone who has put tens of thousands of hours on controller and around 7k hours on KB&M the verdict for me has always been that controllers dominate in CCQ, for medium range its pretty even with mouse slightly being better and for long range engagements the mouse dominates. However, if a game is recoil intensive like PUBG, for example, the mouse quickly becomes the dominant peripheral for all ranges of engagement.

@Gurzbujar Год назад

Great video! I have 3k hours and play both mnk and controller. What i learned is that aim assist is OP if you understand how it works and use it where it is strongest. (Stand in corner and widepeek with a beam weapon like r99 when you hear footsteps) I started out on controller but didnt utilize aim assist when i switched back after playing 1500 hours mnk i started using aim assist to its fullest and i have never gotten so many oneclips in my life. I played classic first and then changed to 4-3 Linear(op af). As a player on both inputs i think high lvl controller players should be nerfed somehow, but new players should gain full assists. sidenote i think high ping controller players are the scariest ingame (Genburten)

@vecter Год назад

As an MnK player who struggles to use roller, how do you “use aim assist” properly?

@Toaster7 Год назад

@@vecterstrafe one way and pull your right stick down slightly the opposite way

@nayuki2020 Год назад

"just let me aim" I love this line. LOL

@sm1le0hd Год назад

AA kicks in when u do move the aiming stick, so the anti mirror is a better choice rather then the mirror strafe you did

@RocketJumpNinja Год назад

Oh true, ok yeah I didn't look that far into the "how to", thanks for the tip!

@justthere845 Год назад

Also kicks in when moving yoyr left stick.

@curlybridger Год назад

been watching your content since my inception into mnk. always top teir content.

@unison_moody Год назад

Why does everyone act like Aim Assist is a necessity? Professional gamepad players should be prepared to use Gyro instead, especially with Gyro+ Look Flick. This is much better than relying on a controller scheme that requires Aimbot Assist.

@justthere845 Год назад

Because almost no one knows about it.

@Fvviff Год назад

I think there just needs to be a mouse/keyboard/controller counsel that meets up atleast twice a year to go over different things they both can improve on the others inputs to balance it

@TheCrippers Год назад

Great video but you missed the third input which is gyro aiming. Imo it's what controller players should start learning. There will be no need for aim assist when people start getting good with it

@Inconsistense Год назад

Like a lot of other people have said if we could remove visual clutter, maybe add some kind of delay to rotational aim assist. I think the game would be enjoyable. And personally I’d prefer to have input based matchmaking for ranked. It’s not pro league but it is meant to be competitive so it makes sense to me that in terms of input everyone should be on the same one. I’m pretty sure overwatch disabled AA in competitive. I don’t think respawn will ever nerf aim assist overall and the reasons are likely player retention and money. Pretty sure majority of the player base on PC is now on controller, so if you nerf it a lot of people will just find a new game to play. One final thought I have which goes for both inputs is that I wish they’d do something about config usage, I would honestly like to see them remove them.

@TheLEGITstuff Год назад

Great video as always. Havent been around as much recently but its nice that i caught a vid like this. I grew up primarily playing Halo, amongst most console fps games. Built my pc in 2020 and came across your channel when getting used to using a mouse (and got into quake!! Thank you for this, great starting game for pc) I mostly played cs and quake before picking up apex and I feel like my aim is great with both mnk and controller. your video nailed it, the strongest part of aim assist is aim assist rotation, which has become stronger and stronger with modern games (cod, halo, etc). The visual clutter is a big thing too for apex. Instead of complaining you came up with great suggestions. For apex, aim assist is nice for the consistency, but mnk is more rewarding and impressive. I share many of your sentiments regarding using single shot weapons and solo queuing 😂

@TriantafyllosTsiakiris Год назад

Controllers SHOULD be inferior in a competitive shooter game because of their design. Mouse aim is 100% affected by skill, so it would be unfair to lose to aim assist in any case. Like saying bad bicycles should get a small motorized assist for bike racing. And m&k can be cheaper than a controller, unlike in the bicycle example.

@bruh-nq5px Год назад

good analogy

@Amphrite013 Год назад

So you're saying that I shouldn't be given aimbot if I want to play the game with a Wiimote steering wheel? M&K gets no aim assist, controller gets .4 or .6, and then I would get 1.0 because I'm using a harder input method than controller. It's the only way to make it "fair".

@Sigmestgi Год назад

The biggest buff they could give to Rampart would be removing the muzzle flash from her ultimate minigun, it is literally impossible to see what you are aiming at beyond a short distance.

@ognox1 Год назад

Destiny 2 has the same problem where AA is far too strong and sticky, with a large hitbox and reaction to button press way off target, so much people massively started using chronus zen, and xim to use mnk with the aim assist.

@SomeRandomObserver Год назад

Yeah, the Cronus is being used massively in apex. No way to compete without aim assist beyond Diamond ranks.

@ZenRyoku Год назад

my curiosity is for the gyroscopic controllers that may in theory be a fantastic way to play...

@BravenTyler Год назад

I disagree with all this. Aim Assist is really overpowered in games now, and it shows with top players. Battlefield is a great example of this, they broke aim assist and now you see console players top fragging insanely now, compared to before, and there KD stats have sky rocketed while m&k has lost KD stats. That's why many streamers and pros have stopped gaming competitively and played single player games

@BravenTyler Год назад

Someone talked about "bullet punch" but they mean flinch in games and I agree, give flinch to controller, and remove it from M&K. There you have it, balancing.

@vaudou_ Год назад

Now how does gyro play into this? Especially the part about rocket jumps and whatnot. I personally think it should be adopted more as it closes the gap and doesn't require aim assist.

@xenoborg007 8 месяцев назад

"it doesn't aim for you" next few words out the roller shitters mouth "its giving you small adjustments".... that is aiming for you no matter how marginal rotational assist at 0 ms response time is IT IS aiming for you. Its doing the hardest thing in the game (micro and macro adjusting for every movement made) constantly at inhuman reaction times.

@TheAlphaZulu Год назад

The forced camera movement when hot dropping or when you drop from height is one of the reason I can't play anyone else other than Horizon. If that's a crutch, then i think that's a problem with the game's overall design. The forced camera movement when firing weapons is also genuinely rage inducing, I grew up on games like Unreal Tournament and Quake. Even more modern games like R6 Siege doesn't have the crazy visual clutter of the muzzle flash. You shouldn't be blinded by your own weapon.

@telestics Год назад

Great video, but I'd disagree with BulletL that we would accept a movement nerf in exchange for an AA nerf - movement is balanced enough right now, and lowering its potential and skill ceiling would never be healthy. Superglides and many other movement techniques are possible for skilled controller players, especially if you use steam configs, and attacking emergent mechanics the community has discovered (even ones that are somewhat MnK exclusive) wouldn't be popular. Cleaning the screen up and removing visual clutter would give MnK the same smooth gameplay as roller, and allow us to focus on raw aim. Approaching the problem with a buff is an infinitely better solution to attacking everyone with nerfs

@eirin481 Год назад

give controller players the same movement options as mnk (moving while looting, tap strafing turned into an intentional mechanic with a visual cue, make superglides not dependent on framerate by also turning it into an intentional mechanic, etc.) and then nerf AA or change its properties crossplay on apex was the most half-assed thing ive ever seen in my life and its insane how big of a hole the devs dug themselves with this

@kaykier Год назад

@@eirin481 Absolutely not. Moving while looting and tap strafing during fights (while actually turning away from your opponent and not just rotating your joystick) would be great for controller players. But there is no need whatsoever to make superglides or tap strafing any easier than it is now. They're difficult to learn, but extremely rewarding for the time invested in them. Why make it easier just because others don't want to actually learn and practice these movement techniques, which really don't help you in a fight?

@eirin481 Год назад

@@kaykier one is framerate dependent and the other one is coded in such a way that controllers can't access it without scripts, thats why consistency is what i want; they could keep the just-frame timing but these things need to be universal mechanics i play slayer in accent core, weird execution barriers are cool to me, but this would be like if his links weren't accessible for pad players but they got a dash macro for cheap BDC inputs instead

@kaykier Год назад

@@eirin481 Do you have a source that confirms controller players are unable to tap strafe because of the coding? Making universal mechanics easier is what led to a series of complaints in games such as: SF4 to SF5, Tekken 6/Tag to Tekken 7, Mortal Kombat X to Mortal Kombat 11, Strive, etc etc. Apex, from a Competitive standpoint, is already in shambles with a two different inputs competing against one another and rotational aim assist. Even in pubs, it's much worse and more difficult for m&k players going against controller players. The last thing Apex really needs is controller having even more accessibility to options that would make it even more superior, than it already is, to m&k.

@eirin481 Год назад

@@kaykier roller at the top level is arguably still not as good at mnk, its just annoying as fuck in pubs because everyone W keys each other where aim assist is most effective while my claim about the coding of how analog movement works is a bit vague, the lurch mechanic is only abusable by mnk because of the speed inputs can be registered via the mousewheel or even manually mashing the W key (though to a lesser effectiveness, obviously), which controller players, especially on console, cannot abuse and yeah, sure, watering down mechanics and making things more accessible can be a slippery slope, i believe the issues all of those games have are multitudes more than simply making some inputs easier making superglides not framerate dependent, and by a certain extent, hardware dependent, is in my opinion the equivalent of the 3 frame input buffer in xrd that older guilty gear titles lacked, for instance; it just makes shit less frustrating most of the time, and although it does make shit like links admittedly easier, it does so without reducing spectator friendliness or player enjoyment the best course of action i think respawn can dish out is an overall nerf or rework of aim assist, *at least* change how it works, whilst reducing visual noise, giving controller players more movement options, and actually supporting gyro aim officially on the principle that the playing ground should be as equal as possible

@Vodkarn Год назад

I keep thinking that we've all sort of stumbled on the real answer: if aim assist is to help people on controllers aim, because the input isn't good enough on it's own for faster gameplay and movement, then it shouldn't also be on in a _ranked_ competitive environment. If an F1 driver said "I want to use this car, but it's worse than all the other cars in F1, so I should get AI-assisted turning" people would laugh him out. It's fine to have aim assist for controllers _as long as they're only playing other controllers, and/or it's a casual environment._ Quake 1 had aim assist in single player from when it was keyboard only. And what happened when you went into multiplayer? It turned off.

@tehJimmyy Год назад

the most broken part of aim assist vs mnk is how little effort you put in order to one clip someone in apex versus mnk. It doesnt tire you out at all vs mnk.

@Kligan Год назад

I'm so sick and tired of being beamed down by a guy with a controller through 2 thermite grenade, when I can't even see him myself to shoot back properly :\

@NorroTaku Год назад

why not separate the pools?

@walendaaa Год назад

money money money

@mamorris23 Год назад

less players

@AkkirOrihsam Год назад

@BarnOwl-cg1ls getting these numbers out of your ass it seems

@kingkaldo Год назад

This is the best explanation and visual evidence of what really is going on. I got to the end of the road last week. Retired from Apex. Love this content Rocket!

@DanteUT Год назад

We can get rid of aim assist if people embrace Gyro aiming.

@cannonaire Год назад

This is the most important video I've seen this year.

@Dah_J Год назад

They’re two different inputs with their own advantages and disadvantages. There’s no way they could ever be made equal. I personally think they should just separate them into two different lobbies. That’s just me though

@RowOfMushyTiT Год назад

Yeah that's why controller players just ape you.

@Dah_J Год назад

@@RowOfMushyTiT not sure what you mean by that

@RowOfMushyTiT Год назад

@@Dah_J close range favours controller so maybe that's why so many squads ape.

@Toaster7 Год назад

I just don’t think that there would be enough players to support forced input lobbies. I mean, just look at halo infinite, kb&m lobbies were practically dead so they just had to q into cross play. I think the issue with separating the inputs for competitive and tournaments would be that it just makes the viewing experience worse overall.

@SFJake250 Год назад

Controllers are garbage without a programming advantage. FPS is a K&M genre and should have stayed that way.

@KenniTheKid Год назад

That BulletL guy is an absolute monster with the PK. God damn! Great vid btw.

@ryan199gamer Год назад

Long time viewer, Really good video. I quit Apex because of multiple things, one of them being that the meta became controller first, and as such feeds into the Devs caring about controller gameplay more than K/M. I feel like there should be a separation in K/M and Controller atleast in Ranked or Comp(or maybe even remove/lower Aim Assist in those modes) because as of right now its really straight up stupid to even play the game, every gunfight feels unfair(either in my favor or the enemy's) which for me is just not fun. I got back into Arena shooters because of this but realized that the Genre has died but I still enjoyed Doom 2016 MP(IK its not a "Pure" arena shooter but i like the balance of modern features and progression and the classic gameplay style). As bloodhound says "There's Purity in simple Combat" That applies perfectly to Arena shooters ironically XD.

@ryan199gamer Год назад

@BarnOwl-cg1ls yeah thats what really sucks about all of this, Apex is based on Titanfall and Titanfall was such an outstanding game on K/M, and apex at launch was similar but now its just a mess, because of the controller focus.

@ryan199gamer Год назад

@BarnOwl-cg1ls agreed, although i have bought a battlepass twice back in the day, but that was when i really wanted to support respawn entertainment and trusted them(and hoped they would use it for TF3 AHAHAHAHAH). But now it doesnt matter, everything about the game is just boring after a few matches.

@grilogouveia Год назад

as someone who has been a pro player using both mnk and controller, loved your video Zy, good job

@ananon5771 Год назад

the solution is gyro aim. 14:23 more than possible with gyro aim

@twpsyn Год назад

playing modern games like this with all the clutter, noise and annoying camera movements really frustrates you when you have a lot of experience in older games that didn't have all this stuff. even a more modern game like dirty bomb managed to look modern for it's time without being as frustrating to play as something like Apex

@wallthemart Год назад

Either no cross plat, or fine tune the way aim assist works. Do not move crosshair without player input. Slow the sens to stick with enemies ONLY if they are pushing the joystick in the same exact direction. Imagine playing badminton and your opponent did perfect corner smashes every high ball you played. With good players, all they need to do is mixup drop shots and you'll struggle so much against them. Thats what aim assist does to competition

@fuckyoutube647 Год назад

There are more controller players on PC than mnk, crossplay is not nearly as big of an issue.

@VoltaReviews Год назад

The main reason why I stopped playing Apex. My tolerance was exhausted. Great game but it suffers so much on M&K I can understand why pros are switching inputs. I mainly play M&K games only now because of this even though I still love and watch Alex streams and tournaments

@SusloNick Год назад

It's blatant AIMBOT, Ill never play games like that, not even casually

@oYously Месяц назад

Cry

@ognjenstankovic98 Год назад

0:50 fun fact a controller that's been getting more popular recently for fighting games, the hitbox controller, is basically a keyboard

@Kyotix Год назад

not watching the video yes its op to say otherwise is silly thanks

@AL2009man Год назад

Ironically: Gyro Aiming (comes with your PlayStation, Nintendo Switch controllers, Steam Controller and probably Steam Deck) gives them less "limited" than with joystick.

@justthere845 Год назад

Definitely comes with the steam deck.

@griffin1366 Год назад

Should have been input based from the beginning. No side will ever be happy.

@TheRainbowMinion Год назад

Not input based, auto aim on/off based.

@griffin1366 Год назад

@@TheRainbowMinion I can respect those that have aim assist off but it's so few that its not worth even coding for.

@thenry3600 Год назад

People want to play with their friends, companies want to make money, crossplay will be here to stay along with the bs that ocmes with it.

@griffin1366 Год назад

@@thenry3600 Input based is the best case scenario. People literally don't play crossplay games because of aim assist, myself included. It would be a win win for everyone.

@twpsyn Год назад

regarding controller needing assist and your points near the end about rocketjumping, solarlight has shown on youtube that with flick stick + gyro you can 100% match mouse and keyboard for big flicks and insane movement. I wish consoles implemented it since atm only pc players can set that up with steam input

@perilousintent2936 Год назад

How to solve this issue. LITERALLY have different servers for only Controller players and M&K players. Controllers are fundamentally played differently compared to M&K. Only make it crossplay if PC player has a controller playing the game.

@SuperSavageSpirit Год назад

That totally won't screw the population and future engagement of the game 🤦‍♂️. Imagine if dead ass halo infinite did this or gears of war

@CJ-bc4ic Год назад

One of the points mentioned a pro player who won in a tournament, would you suggest also having two separate competitive scenes? or banning one input? seems like a bandaid solution.

@BrotherO4 Год назад

this, or no Aim assist on controller just Gyro aiming. anyone that has use Gyro aiming on pc with Steam input knows its like 90% of using a mouse while gaming.

@perilousintent2936 Год назад

@@SuperSavageSpirit It won't completely kill it. Some people on PC play on a controller. Maybe people will switch to controller on pc if there aren't enough players. Seriously though. If there's no way to solve this issue. Separate the pool. One side can have more power over the other depending on how the devs adjust aim assist levels.. It really is a different play style when playing Controller.

@TheRainbowMinion Год назад

Not all controller users want auto aim. Instead split players into honest players and dishonest players.

@mikeymayhem_ Год назад

Really sad you of all people didn't make a video discussing how gyro aim is on par with mouse on keyboard. Not meant to be rude but there's so much bias around it! No one knows how good it is and we need a big RU-vidr to talk about this! ❤

@RocketJumpNinja Год назад

Honestly I hadn't even heard of gyro for aim until I put this video out, so yeah I'll have to look into it!