Is Arkham Batman ACTUALLY a Good Batman? 

Glad you enjoyed making the video! It’s nice to see discussions in fandoms that don’t immediately turn hostile and whatnot. Keep doin what your doin 🗣

This is the modern day equivalent of Socrates and Aristotle debating

"We don't know how many people die in Arkham city" Clownpuncher: it might seem crazy what about to say

Arkham Batman's worst quality is that he keeps pushing his allies away and does things himself, but he does this to delegate tasks and so they don't get hurt.

You shouldn't feel empathy for people who do atrocities because they have trauma. Trauma is no excuse for doing horrible acts. Take Professor Pyg: The god-awful things that his mother made him do as a child sounds like an episode of Law & Order: SVU, but that's no reason to do any of the things that he's done to innocent people. He, of all people, should know how anyone would feel on the matter. Batman is a shining example of how to turn your grief and trauma into a force for good. He'd fit in perfectly with his rouges gallery if he was a serial killer, but he's a hero instead!

7:43 man reference

with the jason thing, you cant blame batman for being bad when he “replaces” him. Its common batman lore that tim finds batmans identity and essentially finds his way into the batcave. Batman doesnt actively go out searching for a new robin (not that he ever has) Additonally, its known that alot of the arkham guards (primarily officer balls🗣️) were on jokers payroll and making sure the abandoned wing was not being investigated. Batman knew arkham asylum was still up and running, and if its a facility you know is working perfectly fine why on earth would you think to look there? It’s also not ever stated that batman DIDNT look for jason, i dont know where this notion comes from. All we know is he stopped searching after joker sent that tape. I dont get the criticism that batman should still keep searching even though he was sent footage of joker shooting him. He has no incentive to think joker wouldnt kill jason. Then for the whole origins and character regression thing, arkham knight was already in development by the time origins was released and even being worked on. Rocksteady most likely did not know about the story of that game before it was too late, hence why the origins references are all in side missions. Last thing, how he treats tim in city SEEMS bad because of conroys line delivery. But if you simply realise what hes saying to tim, hes being alot more father-like then you originally think. Especially with the reassuring hand on the shoulder, a small gesture but to he honest it means alot.

I think a big point your missing is that every time we see this Batman it’s during one of the hardest nights of his career so it would make sense why he’s so locked in, also we can asses the amount he would save the east coast of America is around 120 million people he saved and was happy to sacrifice himself doing it

I’m glad that this whole debate can be friendly. I think at the end of the day we all love Batman. They’re just trying to figure out what works and what doesn’t this specific version of the character, and it’s so refreshing to see that things seem to be relatively civil here. Normally us Batman fans can be very “intense”.

Again, he stopped protocol 10 before getting Talia. Hugo and ras die. There’s no more helicopters Also we don’t totally demonize villains becuz they were forced into it? You know even killer croc had a choice not to eat people right?

In regards to the question about should we see guys like Zsasz as humans, heres my take. I don't think we as fans have to see it that way. It's totally understandable for you as a person to think Zsasz is a degenerate freak with no hope, but Batman should always believe they can be helped. And to have Batman think that about someone like Quinn but not Zsasz would be wildly out of character. Batman doesn't pick and choose. His moral code applies to everyone no matter what. It's why he won't kill at least the Joker despite there being a very strong argument for doing so. A weak (or even normal) person bends and breaks their morals when convenient, but Batman isn't weak, or even normal. He's above and beyond

I agree with the point that Bruce is cold from asylum to knight without much to show otherwise. But I always thought the point of knight was that he was that he was giving up batman because of the negative effect of his legacy on his loved ones. I excuse it mostly because it's part of the story. Also, with the parts about Tim, yes, he does train him after the death of Jason. But it's always mentioned in his file that Tim is a genius and found out batmans identity. Tim is meant to be a smarter person than Bruce in general. Bruce does use Tim's knowledge of biology for both city and knight with the Jokers blood. Both games do enough to show that Bruce doesn't want Tim to die in the field, even Dick to some degree by telling him to go back to bludhaven.

7:01 it’s not really an excuse tho the fear toxin is bringing Bruce’s worst fears to life and to the forefront of his mind which is losing his family again and because of that and the situation he’s been put into he decides to keep Tim safe by locking him is one of the safest places in the city and his concerns are pretty valid when you think about how every single person he loves besides Alfred literally get kidnapped and almost die

Arkham Batman is one of my all time favourite versions of Batman. He’s not perfect but he’s still a great and goated Batman. That’s the point of his character, even though he’s this force to be reckoned with, a man who has reached the absolute physical and mental peak, he’s still human. He still makes mistakes like the rest of us, he’s failed on multiple occasions. He’s not the perfect hero, no hero is. Superman, Green Lantern, The Flash, Wonder Woman all of them have made mistakes and they are more powerful than Batman. It’s not about how much you’ve failed it’s about how you get back up, dust yourself off and move forward, you try again. The moment you give up is when you’ve truly lost. No matter what version, that is Batman to his core, he never gives up, he always finds another way out.

To be fair, we only see Talia for 1 night, and according to Barbara whenever Talia is involved Bruce "instantly become makes her the most important person in his world" and after you beat Ra's Talia is scolding Bruce for lying to her and Bruce says "Talia I" before she cuts him off, it's pretty clear Bruce was most likely going to say he loves her. About Tim becoming Robin, we don't know what picture Joker showed Jason, it could've been similar to the comics where Tim suits up without Batman's knowledge and before he started training him. And Batman didn't know Jason was in Arkham (how? I don't know!)

7:11 I'm not entirely sure what you meant here but in the Flip of a Coin dlc Tim never mentioned or showed any hatred towards what Bruce did to him. He was definitely angry in the campaign but I believe overtime he understood Bruce's decision and why he did it. So Bruce never "lost" Tim. However, if you meant that Bruce lost him because he was kidnapped by Scarecrow at the end of the game then you would be correct. Once again, I'm not sure what you meant.

There’s bunch of comics were the villain redeemed themselves so Arkham Batman thinking that’s possible isn’t a stretch at all

You two should settle this over a live debate, now that would be really cool

1:13 hey that guy looks familiar *its me*

In the Arkham city choice defense, I’d argue that Batman isn’t just just worried about talia but Joker getting his hands on a literal Lazarus pit. Pretty sure that’s higher on risk totem pole than a bunch of choppers.

i mean, humans are not always logical creatures. I would argue it would make Batman less human and more cold if he DIDN'T shove robin away, care for talia (who we can presume is someone he loves, they clearly know each other well), and keep tim locked in that cell in Knight.

I do think this version of Batman comes off a bit colder and more dismissive to his family than I'd like. I mean, Batman is not a warm ray of sunshine or anything, but his defining trait as a hero is that he deeply cares for everyone, even if he has trouble showing it. His arc is Origins is so well done, so it's kinda sad to see it immediately undone in its predecessor City.

Honestly I think you made valid points. Like I still think this version of Batman is great overall. I'm not crazy but there are some flaws in his writing that people apparently don't really want to accept. Also this guys points about Batman's lack of empathy at the villains just mades me think he blatantly misunderstands the whole point of Batman and his no-kill rule.

Video idea: forcing yourself to complete arkham origins blackgate on hard mode

I find it baffling to this day that people still harp on the Under the Hood scene, as this is only one of many explanations of Bruce’s philosophy. I do not doubt for a second in my mind that he’s afraid of the kind of person he’d become if he did start killing. This is even the main point in many Batman stories before Under The Hood. Such as Death in the Family, The Killing Joke, Knightfall, Ego, and several minor stories. Batman’s a complex person. So ofc his methodology and ideals have many facets to them

2:18 wow wait I was actually capping that ended up getting moved to like halfway through the video smh and the final count was actually off by a bit. The total was roughly 10 higher as I miscounted Alsume and forgot about the folks Batman saves in HQR when I did my City count. The estimate at the end wasn't too far off, especially considering we rounded up anyways, but still.

About Batman thinking of going after Talia. It’s like you didn’t pay attention to Asylum and the Scarecrow sections. One of Batman’s biggest fears is losing the people close to him, for example Jim Gordon. That is his main and consistent “character flaw” in the Arkham games, he truly values his allies but he’s also scared of putting them in harms way and losing them, to the point where he sometimes comes off as him not trusting them. In-universe that can be explained because he lost his parents (duh), almost lost Alfred to Bane and lost Jason to the Joker. Batman thinking of going after Talia first is actually paralleled in AO, he chose to fight Firefly instead of going to Alfred and he almost lost him, Bruce thinking of Talia in that situation is not regression it’s the exact opposite. Of course the issue with Talia in that game is that we barely spent any time with her and the time we did spend she seemed preoccupied with making Batman join the League; it didn’t seem like she genuinely cared for him, more so manipulating him. So yes the scene is not perfect, but it’s not out of character or regression, it’s in line with Bruce being scared for the people he loves and needing his most trusted ally Alfred to be “The Batman”. Same situation happens in AK after Oracle’s “death”. Arkham Batman is not Batman from the animated series, he isn’t a character in a kids show (not that this is bad in any way), he’s aimed at a more mature audience and thus the world is darker and the characters less perfect and idealised. Arkham Batman has flaws and needs his allies but he’s also scared for them, that doesn’t make him “bad” it makes him more human and relatable.

next video: counting people batman saved with atom smith

9:45 If I can use your example about the drunk person getting into a fight and still facing charges even though they were drunk. Just like some of Batman’s rogues gallery, even though they became who they are thanks to their past circumstances and trauma it doesn’t excuse their actions in present day.

6:38 He’s a fully grown man. A college professor😂😂

Lmao my pleasure for counting all that, nice video atom ❤ and I totally agree about the empathy thing u mentioned

I’m pretty sure there’s a Arkham origins showing league of assassins training and there’s lore entries about Talia I’m pretty sure explaining more of their relationship

Not to be too technical here, but I would add about 118 million people to Arkham night since Batman did stop the fear talk and explosion which would’ve been engulfed the entire Eastern of America. The series goes back-and-forth on whether or not fear toxin can cause someone to overdose, but if the toxin doesn’t kill you, I think most of those people would’ve killed each other or themselves out of fear. (you know that in mind, maybe that’s how Batman avoided getting arrested after coming back to the light in KTJL. If that doesn’t get you a presidential pardon, I don’t know what does.) By the way, I did lowball the Number . There could be more than that, but since we don’t know how many people would’ve actually died from the fear toxin it’s better to assume a lower amount. But that’s still a lot of people.

Some people (not atom) expect a spiderman like batman when it comes to people, which isn’t in line with the character.

Hey @athomsmith out of all the games in the arkham series which in your opinion had the best showing of batman as a character

He's not a very good Batman in Asylum or City without extra material to understand his character (BTAS, comics, Arkham tie-in comics). He just isn't explored in those games and in addition he's way to stoic and emotionless to the point of being cold and calculating. He doesn't flinch when civilians die in front of him (he literally has more of a reaction to Strange's death than Talia's), he calls Croc an animal, and overall he's not as sad or angry as he should be about the tragedies taking place. In Origins he's an actual human being with emotions and a character arc. He gets angry when people die, doubts himself when Alfred is almost killed, and learns to be a better Batman along the way. I haven't played Knight so I can't comment on it but from what I understand he's at least angry when people die which is a step up from the first two games, although obviously he has the new problem of pushing away his allies. It would have really helped if he had some sort of reaction to the events of City especially other than silence and a straight face. How much would Batman as a character improve if he had some angry/sad lines of dialogue during protocol 10 about the massive amount of death on display or during the deadshot side mission when an innocent man gets murdered right in front of him? I think the reason for his lack of reaction in City and Asylum was mainly to be more of a self-insert character but I still think it wasn't a great choice. Overall, I'd say he's a bad introduction to Batman but if you know the comics or BTAS and fill in the blanks using your own imagination then he's one of the best versions of Batman ever.

1:58 batman would convey empathy and passion for his villains, he shows empathy and compassion for joker, they go to an asylum, they need rehabilitation and that’s what bruce believes is right

Atomsmith are you trying to down play what Arkham Batman did because throughout your video that sounds exactly what you were doing, and for the record Arkham Batman is literally one of THE best adaptations of the character in recent years.

It depends on which version of Batman we’re talking about. Ask the comics have varying degrees of Batman’s “moods” and “outlooks”.

About Spider-Man it’s confirmed his Parents died in a Airplane crash which you can look up in Marvels Spider-Man PS4 and Remastered. If you look through the collectibles and find the specific item he talks about his parents beings agents

Arkham batman is an extremely effective batman but i do agree that, at least especially in city and knight, he seems to drive people away and make poor decisions. Like sure, he did save talia first and everyone brings that up, but he was immediately ready to go and save her and alfred had to actively stop him and talk sense into him. In knight, sure hes justified in his decisions, but hes also making these cold decisions that end up hurting his friends. Like he is a great batman, but he definitely has his flaws. And i agree that origins has the most development where bruce sees the value in those around him whereas in the other games he will be so into the mission that he comes across as disconnected. I think you both have good points.

One thing to say about the Talia thing. We know from Arkham origins that the league does in fact train Bruce.

16:51 It's true you can't count how many people died versus lived but you can see how many people died in the clown puncher 139's video The Slay Sum: Batman Arkham Knight

I don't know if you answered the question.

Ok I think both of yall have very good points still love this version of this character though and love both of yall videos I watch them all the time so W

The league DOES train Bruce, according to Arkham Origins initiation DLC!

Batman didn't go looking for a replacement for Jason. Tim figured his identity out and went to him. He brought Tim on board as a temporary replacement to help search for Jason, and only gave up after Joker sent him the tape.

Arkham Batman gives his villians so many chances to kill him and the only reason they don't is because they want to make some grand event of killing him instead of taking the shot when he's there standing still or not killing his passed out body (real examples). This Batman is completely at the whim of his villians. They just respect him too much to kill him which is weird.

I dunno, he punches people pretty hard and dresses like a bat. Thats a pretty good Batman if you ask me.

This is still my favorite Batman, he is flawed and i love him. He is my Batman and i think that he is still one of the best Batmen.

So about the Jason problem, Batman continuously searched for Jason up until he is given the tape by joker showing that Jason “died”. After 6 months Batman reluctantly recruits Tim but he didn’t stop his search there, despite Tim being the new Robin he didn’t want to give up on Jason so he searched again for a couple of months up until the tape is sent. Batman searched everywhere in Gotham and searched in Arkham Asylum for him before the events of the game and he never found him because Joker made sure Jason’s location was changed often making it hard for Bruce to truly find him Also, completely irrelevant to the video, in the Matter of Family dlc, Robin during the time period it’s set is supposed to be Jason Todd but there was a continuity error making Tim the Robin at the time instead which bugs me a bit

No especially when to the actual human being in The Batman 2004. Arkham and the DCAU Batman really need to stop being held in such high regards.

atomsmith got good points but he sucks at talking and articulating them, hes just like me fr

Batman treats his allies badly in Arkham Knight because that is the whole point of the game. Batman is afraid of his allies getting hurt and losing control to Joker so that fear causes him to make stupid mistakes and do things that are out of character. He distances himself even more from his allies, keeps Robin working on the cure, doesn’t tell him Barbara died and then locks him in a cell because his actions are being controlled by fear.

Just specifically about the locking Tim in the cell thing, is that not RIGHT after the whole Joker hallucination where Bruce hallucinates he willingly lets himself in the cell, Joker lets him out and he sees the whole encounter of Joker "killing" Jason? "After all, you've seen what happens when you drag your friends into this crazy little game of ours". It's not a coincidence this happens RIGHT before you're supposed to shove Tim in the cell. Without trying to sound like a pretentious know it all, is it not obvious that Joker (Toxin Joker/Joker's blood, yk what I mean) is purposely trying to influence/fearmonger Bruce by showing him that? Heavily invoking his guilt about Jason and his paranoia that something like that could happen again (like when not long after this Joker shows Barbara alt f4ing herself indirectly cause of Bruce) so Joker can further isolate him and continue increasing his grip on Bruce's mind? At the very least it's supposed to show Joker's grip on Bruce is getting stronger, it's obviously not a sober decision on Bruce's part. The fact that neither you or Enterprises mention it is kinda crazy, respectfully. Love your vids though, one love.

5:04 I feel as if MEnterprises didn’t do a good job arguing that point, I feel like he failed at that point. I feel as if his points could’ve been better articulated if he responded to every single point that Atomsmith made.

Fcabb is trurly the MVP🙏

Cool vid Can we have more breaking arkham

He is a great Batman

Hes not the worst batman but hes definitely not close to the best

Arkham Batman is my goat, undefeat-- *Harley Headshot* suicide squad isn't canon suicide squad isn't canon suicide squad isn't canon

Hi

I think M just being shill to ArkhamVerse Batman while u atom has valid critisims of ArkhamVerse Batman.

there were a few people who made vids on your vid

I think it would be best if this videos o gets deleted

Hes just kinda emotionless

this video is horros bruh. seen better points in tiktok comment sections.