Is Barefoot Charles' new boulder Font 9A/V17 

Repeating Charles boulders with shoes or kneepads is just doing a different boulder imho. So basicaly Charles grades boulders for himself. And at the end of the day it's what grades are for: expressing how hard one found a climb.

I mean Climbing is almost always a sport of imposed restrictions, purposefully taking the most difficult path, and in some cases marking reachable holds/arretes as off limit for a particular climb. I see no problem saying “this is 9a without gear” if we also are to accept “this is 7b, but the corner is off limits”. Johnny Dawes famously established problems where different limbs were off limits, and he had no problem grading them whatever he felt was reasonable. Congratulations Charles on a massive achievement!👏🎉🎉

About No kpote only, Charles himself admitted that with the new beta using an intermediate hold, the boulder was a tough 8c. He says so in a video on youtube which is in French so I guess that's why nobody seems to know about it. However, his initial beta was really 9a. So the change in grading only comes from the change in beta, not from climbing the boulder with or without shoes :)

I've always found it kind of odd that kneebar pads are considered controversial by so many, and yet climbing shoes aren't. Like, either way you're strapping rubber to yourself to make bad holds easier to use 🤷

Love the respectful commentary 👍🏼

you'll never convince me that shoes aren't aid

But what would be the O grade?

if you've ever met charles and climbed with him, you will know how on a completely other level he is. Dude puts up 8c's and 8c+'s in the forest often and doesn't tell any 'media' about them. if he says 9a I believe him

Great video! Information was interesting and concise. Very well put together

People do not give Charles enough credit for how much strength he has developed in his big toes. He has been climbing for over 15 years barefoot in font… the tendons in his toes are probably stronger than any of your finger tendons. He is not limiting himself he has reached his full potential in climbing and that’s using ALL his extremities to get up the boulder. I’d say this is absolutely 9a and No Kptoe Only was definitely 9a barefoot as well. He did a 2 finger Gaston on a razor crimp for Christ sake…. Give the king his crown

grading it without shoes is very different from grading without kneepads. charles is the 9a level boulderer that doest wear shoes so imo its fine to have a seperate "no shoe grade". pads however... imo if a boulder/route fa was done without them you dont get to claim that route/grade or even downgrade.

Be very suprised if its 9a after someone with shoes and pads tries it. Super impressive and probably 9a without shoes etc but its like grading a problem highly because you climb it with one hand or with your eyes shut. But really, what would I know? Just took me about 10 goes to climb a 7a so i'll shut up and get back in my box.

We all know that kneepads are aid. You said it yourself i other words. T.i, where is the kneepad grading scale? 1-2 grades easier?

I wonder if bare toes are an advantage in the thin crack

I think we often forget that climbing has always been about doing a climb using a set of rules. For example, doing a boulder using a certain pathway, not using the corner etc. Doing seconds ascents and more is always about doing the climb by giving yourself the same tools than others before, so maybe the most reasonnable way to repeat this climb is to do it without kneepads? (Because to be realistic nobody is going to climb it without shoes)

Ooooh! Roof crack?? Where the Wideboys at??

Good video, but honestly as fun as conjecturing is, I don’t think there’s much weight in us comparatively garbage climbers saying it’s soft. For now I’ll take Charles word over anyone else who hasn’t climbed the boulder or done the moves It’d be different if we were talking about someone with a less extensive checklist, Charles knows what font 8C/8C+ feel like by the same standards he applied to his 9a

I see a lot of people saying, that it’s harder without shoes, and I have to say this isn’t necessarily true. I do half and half, and I can tell you that sometimes, no shoes is a lot easier, and it becomes even easier when you adapt to that style of climbing, if someone downgrades it don’t just dismiss it instantly.

Fyi, 'Grimper' is pronounced 'grimpé' (to climb). What you said is 'grimpeur', that is, 'climber'.

For info, when you input the section grades listed by Lucien Martinez in Grimper to describe the boulder into Darth Grader (not being able to input the semi rest though), the result is 8C+ soft. It's just an algorithm, I'm just saying.

well, if you took knepad and shoes off of the top climbers, the sure would find it much harder to climb, but this would also be something they could train on. Therefore, after years of climbing without barefoot they would become much better and this is when they could better tell if, and by how much, the two climbing approaches differdiffer in difficulty.

I am a kneepad hater 😅 - I do not believe in similarity between shoes and kneepad. We walk with shoes and clothes and with nothing in the hands. I think that if we open the door to kneepads, what else will enter? Putting rubber on the forearms? Elbowpads? Super techy gloves to not hurt the fingertips? Full rubber suit? We have shoes, and in my opinion it is a sufficient (and traditional) compromise..

What about shorts vs pants? That's the real debate

In my opinion, if the first ascensionist did not use knee pads then you cannot claim a send if you used knee pads. This immediately raises the question of "what about if they didn't use climbing shoes?". My gut reaction is that this same rule shouldn't apply and someone that uses climbing shoes (when the first ascensionist didn't) should still get the send, but why, this contradicts my original logic regarding knee pads. Maybe the difference is just history, climbing shoes have been a standard since the beginnings of climbing, but this doesn't seem like an elegant, logical, solution. The more I write, the more I think this question challenges something at the core of climbing grades. Also, who am I or anyone else to tell someone that they can't say they sent a boulder because they broke "the rules", which don't really exist.

I am a rock climber and I have an opinion!!!

Grading is always for the method it was originally climbed in. Megos is very vocal on this and I agree with him - kneepads especially should put you a grade lower and not count for repeats of routes poineered without pads. We can have an argument about the shoes, but they definitely also are an artificial enhancement. If we want to establish "our style of climbing" - with shoes - as NORMALITY and pull the arguably purer style of climbing that Charles is doing, without any artificial enhancement, down to our level; well then we need to face the question why we would arbitrarily stop here. We've already admitted kneepads, what keeps us from moving on to specialist gloves that facilitate crack climbing, or others with reinforced joints to facilitate crimping?? At that point it becomes completely arbitrary and the only non-arbitrary, undeniably pure style of climbing is the one Charles Albert is doing. Kneepads should be outlawed.

Kneepads are there to be used just like chalk and climbing shoes, end, there is no debate. Use if you want, if you don't thats YOUR problem.

Need to report Jack pals 200 8th grade blocs in 2023!

Who uses shoes still

This begs the question: if Charles did not grade this 9A, would @ukclimbingofficial care enough to post a 5 minute video to downgrade it from their kitchen table?

I feel like it's fine if he wants to grade it 9A, but I won't be suprised if someone comes along and gives it a grade according to shoe and kneepad aids. At that level of grading, you'd expect the grade to reflect the global expectation of the difficulty by the common standards utilized by climbers. it should be a given that literally every climb would bump up a grade or three without shoes and knee pads and nearly every climb would be downgraded by a grade or three if you used every aid equipment possible. The reality however is that a majority of climbers don't climb like that, thus grades released to the public would be a poor perception of the reality of the climb for the average climber. IMO a grade's two primary purposes are to reflect the level of risk involved in the route and to give the typical climber an expectation for how much time and energy one should be expect to invest if they intend to attempt the climb. Ultimately, we all climb for the love of the movement and adventure, thus grades should give us realistic expectations on whether or not we want to take a chance at the climb. I'm not about to spend 1500-3000 usd to fly to Finland and try out Burden of Dreams if I know that realistically I won't be able to even establish on the first move, let alone send it within the timeframe I have available to spend in Finland. Or on the flip side, if I was a professional climber with sponsorship obligations, I won't want to go on a sponsored trip to a climb, only to find out it's well below the grade expectation for a climber of my caliber. It would hurt the trust of my sponsor to be willing to send me out to another trip as well as impede my own personal growth.

from my armchair, this doesn't even look 8C+ with kneepad, maybe 8C, it looks like you can split the sport route to 2 distinct boulder problems with no hand rest, and there might even be second kneebar there

For me as long as nobody repeats it with no shoes nor kneepads we can’t talk about a « downgrade ». We could talk about a FA with shoes on

This is a V5 with shoes. I am the rock I know this.

Let's be honest, Charles is the only TRUE climber. His style is natural, we all use shoes, and we are not supposed to. It is just that shoes became an integral part of our life, and we do not consider them an aid. But they probably are. I admire Charles.

Someone will do it with shoes on and its gonna be V12

Vermin got the V-Scale. Charles gets the C-scale. Shoes and pads will clearly result in downgrading. It is silly (borderline annoying) to even have to call this out. Barefoot anything (except heinous splinters?) is harder than with shoes with respect to climbing. By how many grades... Probably just as subjective.... Defying Gravity was just sent using "campus" beta by Noah W., who gave the problem V15. Which may perfectly agree with Barefoot beta. But Grand Illusions barefooted? V19..??? It would be dope to see Charles sending boulders both barefooted and in shoes. Not that he should ever feel compelled too. Climbing is personal. Which is a tremendous part of why it is so amazing. But to get both the "shoe on" and "barefoot" ascent is a pure testament to climbing a problem under very unique mental and physical circumstances!

Well, Charles isn’t the guy chasing for fame, he’s anything but an attention wh***. If he says “9a”, he means it and he has the experience, skills and knowledge to back it up. It doesn’t necessarily mean it won’t be downgraded, due to his peculiar way of climbing.

V17s being put up even though only Nalle and Will have done the first one...

The whole idea of bouldering is finding the easiest way to ascend the hardest rock. I would be very surprised if using no shoes & knee pad is the easiest way...

Shoes or barefoot, tape or none, whatever, this discussion is as pointless as demonising chalk, for example ...

Expect a downgrade soon.

Maybe you should have started by congratulating a climber that we all love to see and hear about for achieving his longtime project before jumping straight to the grade issue. Found that rather ungrateful from your part.

I'd say shoes are OK, but kneepads might not. My reason is that we all wear shoes in our day to day lives. We weat shoes for most sports. Shoes basically have become a basic human feature.

Not using kneepads or shoes is just bad tactics…

Yea dont care much about unrelatable climbing

He's a good climber but there's valid reasons why nnobody really takes him seriously. His attitude towards climbing in regards to other people sucks, and he verbatim says in an instagram comment that he likes to grade his sends hard because it gets him attention, "I think about giving it 9a because nobody would try it for 8c+" like bruh get over yourself