“The only reason you’re alive is because of what you used to mean to me.” “But it’s not the Ben move.” “We both know there’s only one thing you understand.” This arc had the HARDEST lines and some of the best dialogue of the entire series!
I think it’s really cool that Ben picked Chromastone and Terraspin first in the fight against Gwen because those two theoretically are the biggest counters to Gwen.
You know, last year Kuro rewrote the Negative 10 in his way. Does anyone else think that Kuro should create a video about his own version of the Ultimate Kevin arc?
"Kevin's got so many powers I forgot what's available to him" - I find this funny because not only would this happen to the writers, but probably to Kevin himself. Whenever you wonder why he doesn't do something I just imagine him going "I forgor". Like, I don't imagine choosing from the overwhelming amount of options he has is easy during the mental toll they take on him.
It would be and interesting headcannon! Maybe Kevin, with all the madness that comes for absorbing too much power, is actually very overwhelmed by all of them, and that's why most of his attacks are kinda simple
It's kind of why AFO from MHA is so terrifying. He knows exactly what powers he has and how to combine them to release devastating attacks. While also having an impressive defense. No wonder it took 8 generations of stockpiling to significantly damage him.
I always viewed Argit's ability to dodge Kevin's attacks at the beginning less a say on Argit's abilities and more that given how psychotic Kevin has become, he's just toying with Argit, not actually trying to finish him off in one go. Like a cat playing with a caught mouse, Kevin's pulling his blows just enough to hurt Argit, but still allow Argit to try to run because he's getting a sick twisted pleasure from the chase, and when Argit finally wears himself out enough that he can't even shoot a quill at Kevin, THEN he'd finish him off. At least, that's how had always seen the "fight" between them towards the start of "The Enemy of My Enemy." Kevin toying with his prey.
Yeah especially since Argit stands basically no chance given that Kevin absorbed all the pure strength of the Ultimatrix (every ultimate alien Ben transformed into) and every normal alien (minus Alien X who was locked by the time Kevin Absorbed it) and at least twice the power of the Andromeda five Aliens (it was explained their pure power was in Aggregor and he simple absorbed it out of him). The only thing that bothered me is if he's supposed to have the powers of Ultimate Echo Echo how could he get hurt by him so severely (if they didn't include the ultimates this problem in my mind would be negated entirely)
@@pooppooper9033 Ult Echo Echo is literally made out of sound I feel like its similar to Thor being affected by a shock collar when his body can generate electricity lightning level plus
Had the amazing honor to meet Kuro today at the local town fair and got an amazing portrait done! Got to talk about this episode and how he went from one event, made this video, and went to another. It was really cool to talk to you and meet you Kuro and I hope after this weekend you can take a day or two to rest. You really deserve it!
@@TheInkTank Hey, awesome videos and quick question! Does every species need to reproduce with each other to prevent extintion? like cant they just reproduce with other members of their species and survive? Because iirc the Highbreed were having problems of DNA because they didnt reproduce with other species or am i remembering wrong?
The fact that max swore to Kevin's dad that he would protect him makes it all the more sad that he would try to put him down. Or even send him to the null void.
@@ToaArcan Which made more sense as it was clear before OV Osmosians clearly were an alien species known to exist (even as far as the Andromeda galaxy as seen with Pandor (who unless you are going as far as to say he gets a false memory too))
@@LokiTheClever Another thing is, is that the servantis faking osmosians makes no sense, when you watch the arc, servantis way to make kevin on his side, is mainly about how Ben did this and that to him, so faking osmosians as a alien species is completely pointless.
One thing I’ve always loved about this arc is the transition of Kevin’s madness. He’s dead serious and stoic in the Null Void episode. Then in Enemy of my Enemy he starts getting more psychotic and sadistic. By Absolute Power 1, he’s gone off the rails and is clearly relishing in the pain he’s causing. In Absolute Power 2, he’s sunk enough that he’s actively trying to kill Gwen.
That point of Ben trying to do things the "right" way, the "heroic" way, only for it to end in absolute failure every time in the Aggregor arc really puts Ben's sudden shift of wanting to outright kill Kevin in a new light. After enough repeated failures it makes sense that he'd eventually say screw it, if killing people's the only way to gets things done then I'll kill. If they did enough to highlight WHY Ben has this sudden change I think a lot of people would like this arc better.
@@kazion4851 I feel this arc sort of restores his morales seeing that things did get fixed. The way been said “you better be right” meant that he would have put Kevin down and continued being like this if the plan failed.
For me the turning point really felt like when Paradox said that, when it mattered most, he'd do what was needed to be done. Which to me seemed like (in Ben's mind) he was implying that Ben wasn't doing what needed to be done up to this point, and only in the final hour would he put a stop to it all.
30:30 Dwayne explained this once when people asked why Kevin took Aggregor's powers if he already had the andromeda 5's powers. It's not that he needed, it was that he wanted. Regardless of if it'd even work, Kevin wanted more power, and Ben's Ultimatrix was an easy source for it.
I love that Kevin was at the Total Zone, since that was the first place he met Ben AND Gwen. He told Gwen there that he was trying to avoid her so he would not hurt her. So, being at Total Zone would be somewhere he can remember where it all began.
Seeing an unrestrained Ben was one of the most scariest things I’d ever seen as a kid, imagine the most powerful being in the universe not caring anymore.
@@pjdianalan7934 because the Rooters for a solid second we’re a real threat. Kevin seemed to really hate them from what I remember. But idk maybe the god powers just got to his head💀
The thing I really like about the Ultimate Kevin arc is that we see a lot of fights between him and Ben. In classic the fights between Ben and Kevin 11 were cool but they were too short and too few to really appreciate with the fights themselves lasting for at least a minute and them only being 3 with the ending of framed, beginning of grudge match and ending of grudge match (not counting his debut episode because he just absorbed heatblast to fight him and four arms to fight him, the majority of framed because he was just a physical manifestation of the omnitrix or back with a vengeance because Kevin had vilgax and Ben had master control (which sure re evens the odds but doesn’t change that they tried to change it in the first place) while in these 4 episodes we get pretty much every uaf alien imaginable fighting Ultimate Kevin
The fact that I got a heart by this comment gives it a payoff because I’ve planned on making this comment since the arc started but didn’t feel like it fitted in the previous episode
1:14:28 No, don’t you see, that’s why we had the episode Duped. By Ben always having one of is Echo Echos in the truck it explains why Ben reverted back to his immature self. That Echo Echo held on to the respectable part of his personality.
I love the fact that canonically there is Vreedle DNA in the omnitrix and it's said that "ben would be horrified to learn this" I would have loved to see that in the episode in omniverse when all the Vreedles were trashing the place
I like the idea of Ben at Mr Smoothys and he gets four, and when Gwen and Kwvin ask why Ben has two smoothies for himself he just flips his trunk open and hands one to a little Echo Echo sat in there.
this comment chain is great but to not ruin it hopefully Ben: *driving down the highway listening to music* Echo Echo: *flips a seat down from the back and changes the song then casually goes back into his man cave* Ben: *turns the song back* Change my music again and you are officially moved to the engine
Personally, Absolute Power is my favourite episode. I think Ultimate Kevin is the best Ben 10 villain as he really feels like an unstable dangerous young man turned into a monster. The scene where he turns on and attacks Gwen is heartbreaking. I love the scene where Ben talks with Max about who he is and how he's willing to take things seriously as well as regretting when he acted like a jerk due to his fame. Also Ultimate Echo Echo is my fave Ultimate alien and I liked seeing him duke it out with Ultimate Kevin while reflecting on their rivalry.
I feel that this storyline could have been a potential set up for Ben turning into Ben 10k. In the classic series we see that Ben 10k has not only mastered his aliens, but shows little mercy towards alien criminals. He becomes a no nonsense kind of person who takes his job so seriously that he loses parts of his morals and humanity. This is exactly what we are seeing in "Absolute Power" as Ben mercilessly beats up the forever knights, and bears a lot of the weight of what Kevin has become. If there was one final moment in which Kevin actually succeeds in killing someone, such as someone close to Ben, it would probably tip him over the edge entirely. We have seen Ben 10k destroy Kevin 11 as waybig in the Ken 10 episode, and it's hinted that Ben did something similar to Vilgax. Just goes to show, if pushed enough becomes someone he may not recognize.
Although the classic never had uaf as canon timeline, I kind of want to imagine that Julie(with ship as her armor) got absorbed or killed by U. Kevin and that may have tossed him off too far. Gwen and Max was still alive till that day, and Ken 10 was supposedly around 10 yrs after episode Ben10000, which means he has been single till his 30s
I noticed this too, while thinking about the recap of _Absolute Power, Part 1_ today. There is at least one person, and he can't have been the only one to notice this, who pointed out that _Omniverse_ *looks* like a prequel to Ben 10,000. Ken 10 manipulates the timeline so that Ben and Kai get together in order to satisfy an obscure info blurb from the info blurb version of the Classic Kai episode that says that they get back together in the future, for example. Kevin is redesigned to meet his Ben 10,000 look almost exactly, minus the chin scar for another example. But this, this is Ben acting like Ben 10,000 *actually acts.* The Ultimate Kevin Arc might have been the perfect moment to make a Ben 10,000 series, or at least a series like Kuro's comic 5YL that's truly a prequel, rather than just looking like one. Honestly, they still have the chance to make that kind of series, if they're not afraid to do what _Young Justice_ did and age up with the audience.
@@jagnestormskull3178small correction. Kevin DID get his chin scar in Omniverse too during the Rooters arc, making him look like a younger Kevin 11,000 completely with the Rooters mission suit on.
I always felt like Harvey pulling up was powerful but not as powerful of a scene as it could’ve been. If Kevin’s mom say was in the scene instead and we saw the internal struggle on full tilt because we know how much his mom means to him. Then, if kevin still lost control and Ben had to step in I feel like it would’ve been an insanely powerful moment where even Kevin’s mom, who we all know he cares the most for, can’t shake him? Then he’s truly lost
8:58 it’s likely that Argit was unaware of Kevin’s mutation and were originally going to tell him about Pa Vreedle and ask him for a ride to plumber academy and share some of the profit but after finding out he needed a plan B in the form of the Tennyson cousins
Ben seeing Hunk Cooper: "See Gwen, we can kill Kevin! We've got a spare!" Which would be funny because iirc Cooper was the original third member in Alien Force's production.
Random thought that happened recently. Ben has several aliens that repair high level machines easily, upgrade, jury Rigg, Ben Victor (created an Omnitrix). Why doesn’t he fix Mr.Baumans, Rooks, or Kevin’s car
In an episode of omniverse He uses upgrade to upgrade Kevin's car and when kevin asks why he didn't do this earlier he says that because you nevrr want me to touch your car
"You'll never beat me because you're one of the good guys and good guys never have the guts to finish guys like me". -Kevin Damn that quote really aged well didn't it.
43:09 I feel that the Ben-Max conversation should have ended like; "It's not play time anymore. It's hero time." Not just because of the catchphrase, but because as he said in Forge of creation, he tryes to avoid being too serious whene er he can.... But now he can't. Also, playing on the double meaning, because it's onviously not a heroic thing to do, yet Ben perspective is that THIS is what a hero should do, not because of it's good, but because of an asumed greater good
My head canon for Gwen's deal with Michael is that she has to visit him once a week for his mana rations, he tries to flirt with her, she turns him down, and then they both kind of awkwardly walk away with a quiet "See ya next week."
Gwen: So uh…how’s things going Michael: Pretty neat…still ugly and stuff. Gwen: That sucks…. Michael: So you wanna play Uno or something. Gwen:…..Sure.
This is a little unrelated, but I always felt kind of bad for Michael, it isn't like he really chooses to feed off of people to survive or even the times when he enters his golden form from over-absorbing organic beings or someone like Gwen with a surplus of energy, it's essentially an addiction as shown when Michael came in contact with Ledger Domain's energy. He's essentially forced to do it, unless there's some alternative option for him which we haven't been shown, he HAS to absorb people to some extent to live. I don't think he would keep absorbing energy if he didn't enter his 'zombie' state/form from not doing it for too long of a period, which presumably isn't pleasant for him and possibly even immensely painful, I mean just look at him when he's in his 'drained' form, we don't have a whole lot of information but I'd even go as far as saying he'd die if he didn't absorb energy for too long. Also, don't forget he's just a normal kid, he probably didn't know about his alien heritage until his energy addiction manifested. I wish we knew more about him and what species he's a hybrid of, because I feel there's a lot of interesting exploration of his backstory and character if a writer took a shot at it. Heck even a redemption ark where The Plumbers or Galvin/Azmuth or heck Ben as Brainstorm or Gray matter try and help Darkstar find an alternative energy source or 'cure' for his condition. I think the InkTank's ledger domain and beyond video goes a bit more into what possibly caused Michael's energy dependence, but I can't remember, either way Michael needs more love and could make for some really interesting stories if Ben 10 prime ever returns outside of 5YL
@@theleonpasta7336 what if he makes his own energy farm we don’t know if he just needs energy or organic energy I’m using the theory he just needs energy doesn’t matter what kinda like he can get some medical patches and make a windmill water based farm and a solar energy machine and whichever the weather says it is he’ll still have energy and a safe amount
I feel like a lot of problems the community has with ben 10 could be solved if the writers were given more time to expand the ideas, and also better execution
@@toe_sucker_4165 Yeah no What i said was if they were given better time, freedom to do their thing, and executed better than the problems would probrably be reduced a lot Some shows simply dont get better even with bigger time and budget, the idea must be good for it to work, and if it isnt, no amount of time, money, freedom will fix that
@@joaoantonio4864 You misunderstood the guy's point. He's saying it's stupid that you would point out something as obvious as "if the show were executed better, people would like it".
Holy shit Kuro 3 episodes?? You're insane man, your efforts that goes into these breakdowns is awesome! Revisiting episodes like this and listening to your thoughts and commentary on them is really insightful. I really appreciate it
I would love to see a "what if "series made by the Ink Tank. The first episode has to be "What if Ben killed Kevin" either in classic or in ultimate alien.
Without kevins support and setting him straight, Ben would likely be inclined to become even darker and Likely succumb to the power of saint Georges sword after defeating vilgax. Ruling the universe as a tyrant.
Imagine if Kevin went deaf after Ult Echo Echo's Sonic Doom attack Gwen: Kevin you're back to normal! Kevin: *Hears nothing but ringing in his ears* What?! I can't hear you!
1:19:41 I like how Kevin sucker punches Darkstar because it's like Tit for Tat because of when Darkstar did it to Kevin way back in the Alien force episode "Trade off"
"you know why you lost cause you care about not hurting me and that's exactly why you don't have what it takes to deal with kevin" that line gave me chills every time i watched absolute power part 1
Kind of remaind me of Kevin speach to Ben in a original show you will newer beat me becose you are one of a good guys and good guys newer have guts to finish a job or some thing like that
I love the Harvey scene and I think that it is one of the most well-written conversations in UA (besides the exposition), however, it definitely comes out of nowhere. Like they could have introduced him a lot earlier (they had DBB available) and shown his relationship with Kevin. Maybe him trying to be nice to Kevin and K rejecting him over and over again, so that this moment where he puts his foot down would be a lot more impactful. My rewrite idea: Have Ben lose control whenever he goes ultimate (from the beginning of season 1 of UA). Say that the DNA is corrupted by the ultimatrix which means that Ben becomes more animalistic, and have the ultimates be used as last resorts rather than just a power-up (so that they feel unique and the series title is justified outside of selling toys). You could even have Ben becoming overreliant on them throughout the season. My opinion is that they should have committed to having Greg as the main villain of season 2 and had season 3 be dedicated to the Ultimate Kevin arc. Both arcs feel way too rushed, being squeezed into season 2, so it gives us more time to get to know the origins. What do Greg want? They could even go the osmosian homeworld and explore Kevin more before he becomes ultimate (this was retconned later but it didn't have to be if they had explored it). Could also give us more time with young Ben on the way to the forge of creation since that felt like a missed opportunity. You could even contrast Ben and Kevin with both of them going mad and integrate the Dagon stuff by having Kevin absorb him instead of Vilgax. Vilgax was ruined in AF s3 and I honestly think that he becomes more boring every appearance (since they never really do anything new with him besides Ben defeating him and him cursing him out) so they could have held of on him for a while. Replacing him with Kevin is a lot more interesting to me. Maybe Kevin attacks the Forever Knights because they did something to him, and he finds the legend of the sword and realizes that absorbing Dagon will give him absolute power. Then the sword somehow becomes the key to curing him and Ben (who is a lot more serious) actually considers using it to reshape reality. The arc feels very rushed and exploring Ben's guilt over not defeating Greg (and Kevin having to clean up his mess), then really showing his descent into being ruthless could have been a great arc.
It feels kind of weird seeing Ben beat Kevin with a single alien in the end. It makes it seem like he could've soloed Aggregor but just picked the wrong alien.
Honestly, Ben could’ve soloed Greg with high difficulty. Judging by how Aggregor gets taken down, Ben could’ve just went as Jetray and blast Greg’s ass so hard with neuroshock blasts with some quick changes in-between. AF (S1-S2) Ben would’ve whooped Greg’s ass.
@@jasonnguyen2575 Apparently the writers said Ben would have easily beat Aggressor when they first met if he didn't pick Brainstorm since Aggregor's spear is only designed to fight electric aliens
I think it's interesting how in the episode which saw the heroes crossing a lot of very important lines in morality and ethics, we also saw career villains turn towards becoming better people. And how no matter what, that's bad for the Rat-man.
43:04 I find it interesting that gwen as the more hopeful one wants to save Kevin and Grandpa max appeals to her since of duty to help her understand ben While Ben is deep down the more pragmatic one so Grandpa max try's to remind him of his more emotional response Then Grandpa max himself as a former soldier makes it clear that he sees a THREAT and that it needs to be killed showing that while he is a good man he isn't afraid of or new to getting his hands dirty
This arc is one of the most memorable and mature part of Ben 10 history. The only problem for me was it’s sudden resolution, that paralleled with how it had begun. Also, Kudos to Kuro for finishing up the arc for us to see.
Contrary to most I actually liked seeing this side of Ben cause at the time I was watching a lot of heros who would try to find other ways to stop an enemy that was too dangerous to keep alive and end being saved by the plot, so they could preserve the ‘heroic image.’ I respected that Ben could be cold blooded and ruthless when he needed to, made me see him as more than just a kid living the hero’s dream and learn the same lesson about fame over and over.
Even as a kid watching this, I thought it was bizarre that everything went back to normal by the next episode. I figured there would be at least a little tension between the trio after all the drama that went down. Honestly seems like a missed opportunity, but i guess you have to remember this is a kids show.
You know, one thing I wish we had in this arc is at least a single scene of Ben talking to Azmuth, since a lot of his actions here can be easily inferred as him taking Azmuth's word to heart. He was the one who kept telling Ben he needed to focus on the bigger picture and ignore heroics, which we see come to a head here. I can see why they avoided it, because Azmuth would be the one person who could pretty much solve this entire plot with his tech and knowledge, but I kinda wish we had at least a scene of him admitting his constant demanding of Ben to focus only on the mission was a mistake after seeing what Ben was turning into.
If Ben focused on the mission rather than being a hero would make Ben an Ultimate God that destroys all conflicts ever occurring in the first place as shown in the series finale of Ben 10 Ultimate, and the Generator Rex Crossover/Generator Rex series finale hence why Azmuth’s methods don’t really work well in a series like Generator Rex or Ben 10 because if Ben focuses solely on the mission without heroics than Teams like Providence and the Plumbers aren’t needed anymore.
44:48 I think Ben is sort of like Spider-Man in the sense that he doesn't usually take fighting his enemies too seriously, but when he buckles down and doesn't hold back he puts in some real work
In my vast amount of childhood nostalgia for Ben 10, I always remembered the “Ultimate Kevin” arc as being THE BEST arc of Ultimate Alien (and tbh it’s one of my favorite arcs in the entire franchise). I never even knew other people had such an issue with it until I started interacting with the larger Ben 10 fanbase online. Their distaste for this arc always confused me, as I had never had any issues with it, and I appreciated the mature quality of the story even when I was a kid. It’s so different from any other arc in Ben 10, and most other cartoons of the era, but that’s exactly what makes it so GOOD! Ben has legitimate reasons for feeling this way, and yeah he’s ultimately WRONG, but that’s OKAY because it shows he isn’t some perfect infallible being… he’s a human. It’s okay to see our heroes struggle; that’s often where the best stories come from. I’m glad Kuro pointed out the more subtle nuances of this arc that go far beyond what many other cartoons are willing to do.
Agreed. Criticism to this arc always comes across as regurgitated and odd. I agree that it starts too suddenly and ends too suddenly, but that’s it. Kevin is sufficient of a threat and Ben is not completely immoral for wanting to kill him. Going soft on a rampaging behemoth just because he was your friend is not professional plumber protocol let alone moral. Ultimate Kevin is stronger than most individual aliens Ben has, so trying to contain him or subduing him isn’t a foolproof strategy. Trying to reason with him sure isn’t going to work either. Trying to cure him is not guaranteed nor possible before strongly damaging him to immobilize him first. You’re left with two options: either possibly permanently damaging him, or killing him. It’s not that illogical of a decision to make. The only problem is its sudden buildup, but it’s a decision that makes sense.
@TheGlassesPro Yes, but I could definitely see this as a network restriction. I think it should be pretty standard by now to not expect Ben 10 arcs to have lasting short-term consequences because CN would definitely prioritize returning the status quo. The earlier the trio returns, the faster the network can regain full creative control and churn out low effort goofy filler for the kids.
Call me crazy, Ben wasn't exactly in the wrong, yes killing is wrong, but for superheroes it's the hardest part, best example Flash season 2 episode 11, Eobard Thawne from the future goes back in time, Barry beats him but doesn't want him to go back to the future, because he knows that if he does then Barry's mother dies blah blah blah, Barry was so angry when he faught him earlier in the episode it looked like he was ready to kill him, Superheroes and heroes in media get it the roughest, they have to choose if they should kill someone or not, I keep thinking of this quote from Arrow season 4 episode 23, "You didn't kill the man who killed your mother Oliver so I doubt you're going to kill me", "With Slade I had a choice, with you I don't", anyway, Ben's need to kill Kevin is similar to Barry with Thawne in that episode, they've both had enough and think that, that is the only way it can end, and considering the ending of absolute power part 1, can you blame him, he was 100% going to kill Gwen and wouldn't have batted an eye
@@varisrevolver4061 Nope, you’re not wrong at all. All that the show was missing was buildup before and after the arc. I wish they trimmed the repetitive parts of the Aggregor arc and focused on this one instead.
Ya know I think Kuro had a lot of fun voicing Morningstar in And Beyond and here. It's brilliant. Keep rocking it Kuro! Thank you for you and the teams amazing work!
1:18:10 I've had a personal fan theory/headcanon that this was actually where the original point of divergence from the main timeline Into the original future timeline from classic series, and in that timeline, ben tries to finish Kevin off but fails and Kevin ends up getting sent to the null void and it causes a rift between ben and Gwen that takes several years to heal And a more permanent falling out between ben and azmuth which would be why azmuth is never brought up in that timeline and why ben is all business no fun until he meets young ben again
My biggest issue with the arc is that it's too short. Ultimate Kevin is only around for a few episodes, and went down fairly easily. I love it, but I do wish we got to see more of it. Maybe see some more things from Kevin's perspective, since he raises some interesting ideas in the forge of creation episode after he first transforms
I agree, but then again I think keeping it short and concise is better than stretching it out. Something that happens a lot with, I don't know, CW shows like The Flash. Pure filler diluting the good arcs
Which interesting ideas? I remember him referencing something that Aggregor said at the Entropy Pump, with the statement implying that Osmos V has a social hierarchy that wants to keep the power of life energy absorption for itself, but honestly, I wish they would have explored Osmos V more. This arc, _following the Aggregor Arc,_ was the perfect reason to.
You know the whole “growth spurt” thing made sense to me as a kid because I always figured he didn’t have human biology and just used some biomechanical shenanigans to get YOLKED.
The biggest issue with the Ultimate Kevin Arc was the stakes was not high enough for Ben to kill Kevin. Kevin's motives in that arc was not taking over/destroying planets. It was Kevin trying to seek revenge to those who he thought wronged him.
@Dawid Stawowski That was tied back to PTSD from the past with Ben if you think about it. He has a sore spot for all Pyronites since it's the first partial transformation he used back in the classic series
I forgot how brutal and calculating Ben can be, and this is was during his regression era. I honestly thought we would get more of this later on, and... not really, then Omniverse happened, and just let it go. I love that shout out to Dee Bradley Baker, man is fantastic as creatures, great with different monster voices, different accent cadences, and is normal regular voice too. He's like Fred Tatasciore in that same way, I love it when he gets work. Another thing, Chris Pratt was in several random voice roles during the mid 2000's. To The Batman to this, I just like reminding people during the Mario/Garfield catastrophe lol
With the inclusion of Harvey, and some of the other stuff regarding the ultimate Kevin stuff, it makes me wonder if a lot of it was scrapped ideas from their original plans with Kevin backing Alien Force. But since they have a shorter time frame, not even a whole season, they couldn't work it all in sadly. It would be interesting to know what the original plan was, and how many things would be the same, and what changed along the way.
1:13:51 That scene always stuck with me cause the screech from that Echo implied he didn't just get vaporized like the previous one. That was a couple second of intense, unfiltered, pain and fear. Like Ben was legit being some-what slowly lasered to death there.
It's funny to think that, if Omniverse writers wanted to justify Ben's selfish attitude that negates all of his past introspection throughout the series, they could just say that 1 echo echo got lost and became its own Ben10, only it divided Ben between his most altruistic self and his most egotistic self Of course they are not going to, but it'd be incredibly funny to just make an episode about it out of the blue and make the fandom go nuts about it
see that would've been a really fun concept to explore in Omniverse, especially w it's lighter tone it wouldve been a nice filler episode if they explored the echo echo clone concept again
@@blueguygaming1330 yeah..... but because they seemingly preferred ditto over echo almost as if to make up for ditto getting sidelined for echo echo, they shot themselves in the foot
@@skibot9974 that just sounds like writers wanting to backtrack their lore. Ben does it 1 time not even knowing if it'll work, which it does, and then refuses to do it or is ever mention again.
37:56 This has me thinking: did Bad Ben from Omniverse actually kill his universe’s Kevin 11 (assuming there were similar paths)? What turned Bad Ben “bad”?
Derrick J. Wyatt said that Bad Kevin is actually a tanned surfer bro dating a ditzy cheerleader Gwen in Bad Ben's universe. But since we never saw his world, it's pretty vague what happened with the characters in his world.
@@_.deenkadir Which seems to be the wrong way to go. "I probably should hold back against the dangerous, osmosian Madman who already killed multiple Aliens by absorbing them into his Body and tries to achieve Omnipotence.....but I should definitely shoot to kill while I fight my former best friend."
I think the reason Kevin does not use a variety of powers initially is due to his mental instability. UAF Kevin is methodical and knows how to be creative when needed but at his core he is a brawler. When he started his rampage again he went back to being that kid who attacked and didn’t think too much about what he would be capable of. That’s prolly why when he was Kevin 11 he didn’t use his enhanced intellect, limited tech control, and ghost powers (I think he uses some density shifting to make himself light enough for the wings). He only started using some abilities cuz he got reminded of them like Big Chill and he still seems to power his way through some situations but is still only scratching the surface of what he’s capable of due to the fact his mind is not all there he cannot be as creative as he would normally be.
1:09:15 Especially WTF since spider monkey used a street light to smack Ultimate Kevin like a baseball AND THE STREET LIGHT SEEMS IN ONE PIECE STILL!!!! What is that thing made of?! plumbers better analyze that lamp asap and copy its properties
Tbh, I was always on Ben's side on whether to kill Kevin or not (at least after the opening scene in Absolute Power Part 1). Even though Ben is being more ruthless, in his mind he's trying to step and be the hero everyone else needs him to be. He's not happy about killing Kevin, but he's putting aside his own personal feelings to protect others from Kevin. I think it would've worked better if we had at least one moment where Gwen pushes Ben too far and he snaps at her, asking her how she can possibly think he WANTS to kill his best friend, that he's demonising Kevin so that killing him will hurt Ben less emotionally.
@@GenUrobutcher I think more than seeing Kevin get punished, I would've liked to see him deal with his guilt and take a step back from the main trio to process his own feelings and apologise for his actions. Big brain idea: what if Basic Training was stretched into a solo Kevin arc where he returns to Plumber Academy because he doesn't feel worthy of his Dad's Plumber badge, and he redoes his training while confronting and overcoming his personal flaws. Then he can return at the end of the season to save Ben and Gwen in a "Thor arriving in Wakanda" moment.
Idk if you’ll see this Kuro, but I’ve just realised how the trio beat Greg to the forge. Remember what Paradox said? “If we’re going to get there on time, we’ll have to have already left.” They travelled back in time! Don’t ask how the Agrebots were able to attack the ship though
@@christianparrish3292I definitely feel like it was an action scene mandate because beforehand, there weren't any fight scenes before that. The next one is the trio vs. Young Ben and after that it's the trio and Young Ben vs. Ultimate Aggregor.
Michael being a doctor doom esq character and charm caster being a Scarlet witch esq character. I wonder if Alan was possibly gonna be a Miles Morales esq character
Quick theory: Imagine that statement is true, Ben really does keep a spare echo echo in his trunk. We know that when he does that his personality goes all fry, this could justify why bens personality is off in certain moments, like in season 3 of alien force perhaps this was when he started keeping a spare, it caused a disruption in his personality, a part of himself which made him how we remember in the first and second season of alien force was kept away as an echo echo clone incase of his death, after that close call against the hybrid he wants to keep himself safe at all times.
I love that Gwen used the Rock Monsters, it's subtle but it shows that she has also fallen, something that Kevin calls out when he references Charmcaster. Ben was acting more ruthless like Albedo, Kevin was more insane and energy hungry like Michael and Greg, but Gwen is the only one trying to push back when it comes to becoming like Charmcaster. I find that interesting because well Charmcaster is already a character who's flickering on redemption so there's less of a well for Gwen to fall down. Also now that I think about it, if OV Darkstar is meant to resemble Doctor Doom and this episode shows off Michael with the cloak, could him be talking like he's in a play be a reference to Doom's ego and nature?
It's great that you're finishing the entire kevin arc in one video I feel that ben resort to murder because he keep failing the mission due to his morality. This time, he doesn't take any chance Personal head canon is using ultimate aliens too much cause user to be much aggressive and it really affect ben since ultimate aliens are combat oriented One of the theme of this series is "power corrupts"
Man, that would have been cool if it actually had been a plot point. Imagine if after they save Kevin, then they realize that Ben is being corrupted by his use of the ultimate function, so Kevin has a conversation with Ben about how he knows what Ben is experiencing.
I'm pretty sure I saw a comment asking this same question back when Kuro covered the season 2 finally of alien force. But I'll ask it again anyways. *Why* *not* *use* *the* *DNA* *repair* *function* *on* *Ultimate* *Kevin* ? Even if the Ultimatrix can't use that feature, ask Azmuth for help as its been established that he has an excellent understanding of DNA contamination/sorting thanks to making the Omnitrix or just ask the reintroduced Cooper (who made a big deal on how he saw Ben use the DNA repair function) to try & make a better (or ultimate?) version of those guns.
I get that Gwen's holding back but what was stopping her from using Somnus on Kevin? It's a sleep spell and if Tardis Motis can effect Terraspin, then they should be able to effect Kevin.
@@fightingmedialounge519 I mean an in-universe argument could be made that influencing a mind is harder than the other spells, but I don’t know if that argument holds up.
@@fightingmedialounge519 My idea is that the mind is potentially harder to influence than a simply force, because those forces don't have a will of their own, they're not conscious or thinking, they just happen, a person especially a very powerful and magically charged person is harder to influence, especially if it's someone who knows the caster. And consider that Kevin did absorp the Alpha Rune from Aggregor and could absorb magic, I mean attacking Addwaitya was ridiculously difficult, what if Kevin could absorb the sleep spell while it was being casted. But yeah it was most likely laziness on the writers' parts, this was just a fun thought exercise.
@@nicholasrodinos4701 no I got your idea the first time. I'm saying it really wouldn't take much to put him to sleep considering that's not a significant influence , and she's done it before without too much difficulty.
I think the reason Kevin tried absorbing NRG was less for the power since He already has P'andor and the fragment of power from NRG Already but more for the radiation and energy, if there's some sort of cost to handling all that power ay once
56:37 makes sense considering she’s an anodite which is an energy being and Verdona did ask Ben if he could “project energy” implying that mana is what anodites consists of
11:43 pretty sure they didn't steal his car, i always assumed kevin just parked it there last he used it and they never moved it cuz they know how he gets about people touching his car
I think the concept of evil Kevin is a great idea. But, at the same time, I think the writers did not plan ahead. I believe he was unfortunately made for the sole reason of merchandise. I think UAF should have been developed more. If Cartoon Network ever does decide to reboot the series again, I think a good story can keep the show running. Especially now, when more people are watching animated shows.
That's not true. Dwayne McDuffie had actually planned this arc even earlier for AF season 3. But then the studio forced them to take a lighter more episodic approach to emulate the original, so he kept the idea and used it later when he could
@@ΑΡΙΣΤΟΤΕΛΗΣΛΑΧΑΝΟΠΟΥΛΟΣ Yeah Dwayne McDuffie is great at writing but the entirety of UAF lacked a clear direction. I just wish he had more control over the series.
@@conancoyle5324 I disagree. There was a vision and direction it was just subtle and kind of muddled by the compromised alien force s3. The main theme was growth. Ben's maturity from a kid with powers to a fully realized hero. This is why the final UA episode with him having the ultimate power but choosing to not take away people's freedom by ridding of evil like that, with Azmuth remarking that now the Omnitrix isn't worthy of him, was a perfect ending for the series. Nowadays it seems like it had no direction because Omniverse retconned the shit out of it. But if you ignore its existence UAF is actually very compelling
@@ΑΡΙΣΤΟΤΕΛΗΣΛΑΧΑΝΟΠΟΥΛΟΣ You may be right. But to me, all of UAF seemed like a mess because of what the studio wanted. Everything was made in order to produce merchandise. Which is fine but the issue is that it took away from the writers. Everything seems mottled and rushed, from the art style, character design, and to the lack of diverse voice over artists. Everything was a tug of war between the writers and studio. I like UAF, I just wanted a more comprehensive story. I'm not going to deny that people put effort into UAF, but the good storylines that do happen seem like they are done by accident. For example, I think Ultimate Kevin was a great idea that wasn't as flushed out as it could've been. This series is my childhood, and I greedily wanted better.
I loved Absolute Power pts 1 & 2. I remember being hyped when I saw the trailers. I think my favorite parts of them wasn't the action but the dialogue. The morality speak between Ben & Gwen, Max's wise but stern advice to the kids, and Kevin's sheer Insanity talk & jealously to whoever gets in his way. The VAs just show how far these characters have come since episode 1 of AF. I just wish the ending stuck the landing more.
31:00 I like to think that he only gets 1/10 of the alien's powers because he's absorbing them from the watch instead of directly from the individual alien. Like he'd absorb more of NRG's power if it came directly from NRG but Ben would probably die
Eh, you might like to think that but just by watching the franchise you’d subvert your thinking quickly by like a second. Cause in OS, Kevin absorbed more than 1/10 of the Omnitrix taking the Omni-Energy from the bio-feedback. Not to mention he managed to take more while Ben was Heatblast and Four Arms too; didn’t kill Ben there did it. It’s only when Kevin lost control and became Kevin 11 did Kevin only have 1/10. Aggregor means that when absorbing regular energy directly from living beings, they have 1/10; not the other way around.
I think half the reason Ben is determined to kill Kevin is because he hates that he's doing it. He has to be right, killing Kevin has to be the only way, or else Ben is just a monster for considering it. He always knew it was the energy making Kevin act like that, but he didn't know how to cure him and then, by the time they can cure him he's too committed to his plan.
I absolutely love this Ben, I love it when a character that seems "goofy" or never serious gets serious and determined. Not that Ben was never serious in classic or determined, but you get my point. This was probably one my favourite bits of the entire franchise.
I actually enjoy Ben's darker side when it shows up, it shows that unlike other heroes he is absolutely willing to kill, but ONLY when the situation actually calls for it, which keeps him from going either anti-hero or full Injustice. And unlike other heroes, Ben's profession is being an actual Law Enforcement Agent as a member of the plumbers, he is not a vigilante unlike the heroes of DC or even the Green Lanterns who may claim to be police officers, but their authority isn't really recognized by anyone but the guardians themselves. Ben is an actual Cop, he is allowed to make actual legal arrests, which means sometimes he may be forced to kill and while it would be investigated to see if it was necessary, it would be allowed, just like with real life cops.
I won't lie and say this arc was perfect, but even still it's probably my favorite arc of UA. Kevin's own characterization was on point and easily the higlight of it, seeing more context to his history and how his character grew from the OS to UA - before Omniverse came around and ruined it, thanks for nothing - but I'd say I actually think Ben's own character wasn't that off. I particularly remember the scene where he's talking to Max, saying how horrid he'd been acting with his superhero persona, and even later when he's fighting Ultimate Kevin and says that he'd give anything to have his secret identity back. He's seemingly dealing with a lot of self-loathing, and is essentially overcompensating as a result, trying to go back to more how he was during the Highbreed Invasion by taking things seriously, while simultaneously dealing with the betrayal that he genuinely feels from Kevin going berserk, regardless of whether or not it's his fault. Of course it's not entirely justifiable, but the best thing about Ben is that he's not a perfect hero, but he's trying to be. Whether you sided with Gwen in thinking there's a way to redeem him, or feel like Ben and that Kevin was essentially a mad dog, I can at least understand Ben's character here.
@TheGlassesPro Very good point. Have, like, one or two filler eps afterward to take a step back from the intensity, but keep these lingering after effects for later episodes to show it's not all squeaky clean, and have characters like the Helpers I think be more cautious around him and mistrusting. Have Kevin work to build back that trust I think would be great, and show some character growth and that there are moments that have genuine consequences, as opposed to waving it aside and going back to business as usual.
I know it's intentionally out of nowhere, but I LOVE Harvey coming in the way he does and just blindsiding the audience with his existence. It's completely not foreshadowed at all, but honestly I think that makes it hit harder since I don't think it'd have the same impact it would if we'd met, or at least have heard of him before, and him just staring down Kevin at 1:08:08 with the lightning crackling and that angle is just absolutely gorgeous. That one shot of him just refusing to move, not even with any equipment like Max, just his conviction and grit, solidifies him for me as a character, he came in hard and made up for his lack of foreshadowing and screentime with a stellar performance
In these episodes I feel that this is pretty much "edgy Ben" though. I mean is not bad that the show tried to be a bit darker but if at this point he was okay with murdering his best friend, then what would be his excuse to not kill Vilgax? Or any other of the villains of the show for that matter.
