The word "frozen" in Dreher's description of a frozen collapse, reminds me of Dante's description of Satan being frozen in the bottom of hell. To the degree that this metaphor is true, there can be no "communion with demons" in hell ( I think that was you're description). Since everyone is frozen in collapse, everyone is eternally stuck in their individual aloneness.
I'm not sure "hell" is a physical place on a linear timeline. It seems to me that "hell" can be found here on earth if you believe that " hell" is the absence of God's love or the rejection of his love.
@@ryanpowell1962 Hey Ryan! I agree that Hell is much more of an absence of the Good and collapse of being which begins in this life. Heaven will be the entire universe renewed and filled with God's glory so it will very much be 'a place.'
@@ryanpowell1962 There are things in this life that give us a taste of hell, certainly. And I don’t know if hell is a geographic location exactly. But hell is real. There will be a final judgement and the angels will be cast into hell, and unfortunately many people will be cast out as well. What that means, precisely, we don’t know because we can’t. But there will be a point in actual time, in history, where people will experience this. And it will be by their own choice.
Yeah, I dunno about all this black hole stuffs, but we really only have a few examples of "hell" in Scripture. Revelation 20:11-15 "Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. From his presence earth and sky fled away, and no place was found for them. And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Then another book was opened, which is the book of life. And the dead were judged by what was written in the books, according to what they had done. And the sea gave up the dead who were in it, Death and Hades gave up the dead who were in them, and they were judged, each one of them, according to what they had done. Then Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire. And if anyone’s name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire." That's it... that's kinda all we got. Does that mean humans in the lake of fire are eternally there or just vaporized (annihilationism)? Is it really "separate from God", like 10 blocks down the road and around the corner from God's house? Is it a place with down time or "hanging out"? I dunno... Guess we'll find out eventually though. I love C.S. Lewis, he has such a fantastic way with words, but he has a bit of an over-embellishment of "hell". These concepts of "growing into an un-human" or becoming worse and worse, and some wispy ethereal realm existence. I mean...I don't think that's what's going on there, but who really knows other than the ones there? I think if anything, he's describing the "abyss" that the legion mentioned when talking to Jesus, not the final judgement mentioned in Rev 20. Sure it's fun to philosophize and metaphor it up and sit around thinking about this stuff, but we're really just shooting around our speculations. Hold onto Jesus, abide in His love. Everything else, honestly doesn't matter much.
The Ego is entirely destroyed, annihilated and obliterated in the conversion, redemption, salvation and sanctification process/ Ego is the false self, original sin, the spiritual enemy within/ The real war is Ego versus Soul/
Existentially repulsed. I love the way that sounds. For a long time, I've been trying to figure out a way of describing How disgusting it is to believe a loving God would punish humans for an eternity. Thankfully A Plurality of believers today Have abandoned the ridiculous catholic conception of a burning hell And have adopted something more akin to what you've posited here. Ie. Eternal separation. It's still doctrinally nonsense To believe in any kind of purnishment Other than death for sins committed on earth, but At least we're making progress.
Eternal separation from a God who is omnipresent also faces challenges... Have you ever seen a child have a fit as his mother hugs him? There's something there. You can call it a punishment, but it's also just a fact of life that the child is loved by his mother and doesn't want to be loved by his mother. This is a lot like Hell. If I'm not happy with what God is, and He is infinitely so, Heaven would be a Hellish experience through no fault of God's.
@@FrJohnBrownSJ If you refuse to ever hug your child again because they threw a fit that's your fault. Not the child's. The only way you can make Hell not God's fault is if God didn't create everything, wasn't omniscient, or wasn't omnipotent.
@@storba3860 I think you misunderstood my analogy. Hell is like the experience of being loved eternally but not wanting it eternally. Being prideful, unjust, a liar etc and becoming totally and infinitely aware of God Who is all powerful yet all humble, all just yet all merciful, all truth etc... That sounds like Hell but not God's fault. The saint isn't just rewarded with a ticket to eternal delight; the saint is one who is transformed-conformed into unity with God. The condemned eternally resists and despises that transformation.
Only those who belong to Jesus are promised eternal life. Jesus said that broad is the way that leads to destruction and many will go that way. My hope for those who reject the gift of eternal life is that they will just cease to exist rather than suffer for eternity. My fear for them is that they will remain concious but without body eternally separated from God and tormented by the knowledge of absolute hopelessness. If God made the soul of man to be eternal then it cannot be destroyed even by God so when a person dies their soul must go somewhere and if it cannot return to God then it remains eternally without rest. I pray for the salvation of all people in the name of Jesus!
The soul (atma) can nevet be destroyed. Hell is an unrepentant condition. As long as you don't repent, the condition continues indefinitely. It is mental condition, not a "black hole." Black holes don't exist: they are science fiction. Good analogy though.
C.S. Lewis doesn't actually think the soul can be destroyed and would agree that it is a mental state. The Black Hole example was simply an analogy and every analogy is a 3 legged dog... its almost gets you there but not quite. So imagine the soul is in a suspended & unrepentant condition which is caving in on itself... collapsing within the ego... So I am not sure your words really contradict the video except that black holes are fictional. Obviously, that is difficult claim to prove one way or another.
@@barrelagedfaithIt doesn't make any sense though. We have no clue how someone can exist as a soul since consciousness is a product of the brain, we have no clue what "more or less evil" actually looks like since we can't measure evil on a scale, and the Bible makes it pretty clear there's a bodily resurrection so how is God going to put a collapsed soul in a resurrected body?
@@storba3860 These are great questions and we are speaking more philosophically. When it comes to Scripture, hell/hades right now may be more of a waiting period in darkness and a foretaste of judgement. Then they will join to some type of materiality, but the resurrection of the damned is categoricaly different than God's people which will reflect Christ's. It is possible that the rising of the damned only fuses them more with Satan in a demonic like possessed state and they become one with the Beast not just spiritually but also physically. So the collapse would continue until they are cast out of the renewed universe. Again, all of this is speculation but Scripture can be harmonized with these ideas. Thanks for chiming in!
