Is House Tully the Least Feared Great House in Westeros? (House of the Dragon 203) 

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We all know the rules! If you wanna fight you take it to the Riverlands!

They're a victim of geography for starters, as has been pointed out all the major battles down the centuries tend to converge on the Riverlands. Secondly, most of the other Great House seats are located in secure parts of their domain. Winterfell, The Eyrie, Casterly Rock, Sunspear, Storms End, even Highharden is far enough into the Reach as to give the defenders enough time to mount a defense. Sure Riverrun can turn itself into a manmade island and hold up for a time in a siege, but in the mean time its smallfolk and bannermen can be picked off at will. The bannermen are probably the biggest issue, both historically and their current positions within the Riverlands. The Tullys, unlike the Starks, Lannisters Arryans etc were not Kings in the Riverlands before Aegon's conquest. Much like House Tyrell, they are seen by many of their Bannermen as up jumped Lord's Paramount, many House who can also field more men than the Tully's can directly themselves. Then there's the internal distractions and divisions, Blackwood's and the Brakens feud, the inferiority complex of the Frey's, the Mallisters attention being more focused on the Ironborn than threats onland. The fact the many of House Tully's Bannerman remained loyal to the Mad King, with House Darry still loyal as seen by the tapistries during Tyrion's visit. Then of course there's the issue of Harrenhal, probably one of the most strategic locations in Westeros as seen in F&B and ASOIAF, but the fact all the ruling Houses have come to grizzly endings, which leads to House Whent not having the strength to defend it in ACOK. I don't think you can say all Tully heads of house were weak though, Hoster recognised his Houses vulnerability and sought a marriage pact with the Lannisters, when that didn't work out he wed Lysa to Jon Arryan and Cat to the heir of Winterfell. This securing the Eastern the Northern borders. Overall the problem for House Tully is they are probably the Great House with the most reliance on its Bannerman for it's power, Houses who have their own competing agendas and ambitions.

The thing about the arrow in the book was that the reason Edmure couldn't light it was that he was crying since this was his father's funeral. Brynden didn't take the bow to mock him; he did it so his nephew could grieve. It wasn't intended as or seen as an insult.

The difference between the Tyrell's and the Tully's is Highgarden, the Tyrell's when named its lord acquired nearly everything the Gardeners had, the money, infrastructure's, tax's, knights/ men-at-arms, laws/records, prestige symbols such as the Oaken Seat (Reach Throne), effectively the Tyrell's gained all the king's resources, what they lacked was the history/legitimacy, prestige and marriage alliances that House Gardener had, something they could and did gain overtime, same could be said of House Baratheon. House Tully on the other hand had to build everything from scratch, quite literally in many cases as the Ironborn rule left large parts of the Riverlands completely desolate. House Tully lacked both the resources of King's and legitimacy/prestige of Kings necessary to truly rule their new kingdom.

Something worth noting about the Riverlands "bending" to the North. They didn't accept the whole north as their overlords they accepted Rob Stark as their king. A big part of why the Riverlords were willing to do this was because his mother was a Tully, I feel this is more a point to show how much they we're respected rather than not.

The Riverlands is the Belgium of Westeros, too small, too internally divided, too many stronger neighbours and this time no larger allies who pledge to defend its neutrality, at the end of the day it was naught but a colony of the Iron Islands for a reason, one thing tho that I never understood is that rivers are a buzzkill for any medieval battle, realistically the Tullies should have no geography problems since all they would have to do is field an army, find the enemy army and pelt them from across a river while watching their enemy hopelessly attempt to cross heavily plated knights over a river, it should be pretty straightforward.

In Fire and Blood Archmaester Gyldayn wrote that the "undistinguished history of House Tully was only exacerbated by the character of Lord Grover." so house Tully being the least feared great house is pretty much canon.

At least the Tyrells got Highgarden intact and the Gardenerr lands, it was a huge upgrade. If the Tullys had been given a intact Harrenhal and the Hoare personal lands, the story might have been different.

I honestly think that whichever House was Paramount of the Riverlands would've faced a lot of the same issues as House Tully, in my opinion it was up to the Targaryens or whoever rules the Kingdom to prop up any House who they wished to rule the Riverlands through marriages but they never did aside from the Stark alliance

The thing is that the riverlords dont really strike fear at all. They are generally weak in terms of military power and are primarily defensive. Other than that food is plentiful, they have the rivers, and harrenhall.

In one of the Lore episodes the Blackfish explains that the Tullys have survived as lords of the Riverlands by using marriage alliances to secure allies. Such as Cat and Lysa’s marriages to lord of the North and Vale. The Blackfish got his name by refusing to agree to a marriage with a noblewoman whose house had a big navy (maybe a redwyne).

I still have no freaking clue why they created this dynamic between Edmure and Blackfish. It was nowhere near that in the books and made zero sense that somebody would talk to his liege lord like that. Also, Robb was not Edmure’s king, it was just so bizarre.

I know this is relatively speculative but the general disrespect for the Blackfish is truly wild

This is my favorite great house - primarily because of their house words and scale armor after I saw it.

Think of it this way… who can keep peace and stability in the riverlands… Every other great house will fight each other for control and break the realms apart. The tullys having the backing of the crown, can balance out all the big players.

Aegon I put weaker house as paramount so the Targ can easily control them. Tully was a minor house in riverland whereas the real powerhouse were the blackwood and the bracken. Also, Tyrell is from the female line of Garth Gardner and houses like hightower, tarly and other male lines of garth's have better claim for highgarden.

Something you might have missed going over is what the Reach is currently doing during the dance. The head of House Tyrell is actually an infant, and the Tyrells remain neutral during the war. Likewise, many of the bigger Reach houses sided with the Blacks including the Tarlys and Caswells(the guy who was forced to bend the knee to Aegon II and then was hanged when he tries to flee and warn Rhaenyra). Edit - Just realized how new this channel is. It's going to skyrocket.

You can understand how the Freys especially would feel contempt for House Tully.

For starters, their sigil is a fish

They are surrounded, which don't help every time the realm goes to war .

Great video! Makes a lot more sense to me with it all explained in one video

At the end of the day, Tywin actively destroyed his own house. Not sure if that is a win, my man.

Personally, i believe Aegon made the Riverrun kingdom weak on purpose. Kingslanding is surrounded by 4 kingdoms, the Vale, Riverrun, the Reach and Stormlands. So instead of giving more land to the Reach or lannisters, or taking it for Kingslanding and over stretching, made a 7th weak kingdom, an picked a weaker house to rule so that they to start have good relations with the Targaryens.

The Riverlands have always been looked at as weak. But maybe there was a time when they were that good

Starks are the oldest, Arryns the first of the andal conquerors, Lannisters the wealthiest, Tyrells have the most men, Baratheons descend from House Targaryen directly, Martells fought back the Targaryens and Greyjoys had the third most kings of any Ironborn house.... Yeah, House Tully is by far packing the least prestige. Worse yet, a good chunk of their bannermen are more powerful and they used to be direct vassals to one of them.

I think the Tully's are probably the weakest of the great houses and the main reason is because they were never kings of their region the way the other great houses were. For the others it was just a change in title and then they went back to ruling like they always had. The Tully's never ruled so they are always looked down on by those who think they can do it better. The Tyrell's have the same issue but they have certain advantages the Tully's don't. The Tyrell's are better at playing politics then the Tully's, are richer then then the Tully's, and the Reach is less likely to be invaded and attacked then the Riverlands.

one of the big reasons the Tullys don't seem to be greatly respected by their bannermen is simply due to how they became lords of the Riverlands unlike the other realms of Westeros who had their own kings before Aegon's Conquest, the Riverlands were held by the Ironborn and it got to the point where the Hoare Kings had long bled the rivermen dry for generations in the construction of Harrenhal I mean this castle could have been a monumental turning point to giving the Ironborn inroads in attacking the Vale and Stormlands but the tale goes when the last stone of Harrenhal was set, the Conqueror landed on shore with his 3 dragons and we all know how that went ... anywho: House Tully was given their rise in stature after Aegon burnt Black Harren's line and restored rivermen dominion it was kinda similar to how House Tyrell was also seen as a weaker house among the Great Houses due to them too not being kings before the Conquest as they were one of many lesser vassal houses of Highgarden prior to the last Gardener King's death at the Field of Fire however the Tyrells were in a far better location with only Dorne to the south as possible hostiles in comparison, the Riverlands was always a source for conflict even during the time before the Andals crossed the Narrow Sea it is just a hotbed of rival factions, formerly petty kingdoms, all nestled between the North, Westerlands, Vale, and Stormlands

Dorne has a little inner turmoil because of the differences netween stony, salty and sandy Dornishmen. There is a mixture of Andals and Roynar there and not all Stony Dornish like that the family in Power is Salty and favours other Salty Ds

I’m not going to lie I never knew who was in the boat I’m glad you said it was his dad I’m not sure if I missed it. I always was curious

Well having a food fish as your sigil is not very intimidating.

While it's true that the current Starks are more loved than feared, the same cannot be said for the Starks of old. The ancient Stark Kings of Winter were as described by Ned, "Hard and cold men, as ruthless as the land they ruled over." Case in point, look at what Theon Stark did.

Honestly I see the tyrells are not that different than the Tully's mainly due to the fact that even after the dance the bannerman's still defy them especially during the blackfyre rebellions were a lot of daemon's support came from the reach or how in the main ong of ice and fire series the Florants break away from the tyrells and help stannis and other reach houses .

I personally beleive staying under the north was the correct move no matter how someone thinks it makes house Tully look. If Rob had won it wouldn’t matter who sat the Iron Throne next, they wouldn’t let the North and the Riverlands remain independent without a fight. They would attack the Riverlands every chance they can in an attempt to reunite the realm. By being vassals of the North, they ensured the North had to fight to protect them in the future wars of reunification to come regardless of how the houses alliance fared in the future (which was irrelevant anyway as they simply lost the war)

Its a common misconception that Edmure isn't a good archer. The book even says if not for his grief hed have made the shot. So basically had it been anyone else but his father he would make the shot.

As far as commanding fear and respect is concerned. Neither the Tyrells nor the Tullys can inspire dread in thier bannermen. What makes the difference is that the Riverlands has ALWAYS had a tumoulteos history and thier vassals were always fighting. Let's not forget that before Aegon's conquest, all the Kingdoms were independent sovereign states EXCEPT the Riverlands who were colonised by the ironborn and before that it was the stormlands who occupied thier territory, all of this due to the inability of the river lords to get thier act together

Would you fear a man named after a comically inept (though lovable) Muppet?

Riverlands is the Poland of Westeros

Another thing to mention about Dorne, is that they got to retain their royal title of "Prince/Princess" while all the other royals of the realm were demoted to Lord's Paramount. I think that alone is a huge signifier of their strength and capabilities throughout the entire continent, their successful defiance of the literal Dragons notwithstanding too of course. They are in my opinion one of the most impressive houses. What other house was able to bring fear to the godlike dragonlords of house Targaryen? None. However in regards to Tully I agree that it isn't quite fair to judge them so harshly since they own the shittiest Kingdom of all due to the Riverlands becoming a Fortnite Battle Royale every time a war happens, and literally the tiniest sneeze causes it all to burn widespread. Their only natural defense/strength is their rivers which doesn't matter for shit really when it comes down to it. But also would agree that one of if not the biggest problems is how they border literally every other Kingdom. Living there would be a living nightmare. Anytime the Kingdoms went to war you would know right away you were going to get absolutely blasted harder than anyone else.

House Tyrel is the least loved house in terms of vassal loyalty. I'd say the Tullys are second and Greyjoys are third.

If the Blackwoods, Brackens, Freys & Both Vances. Have far bigger armies each. House Mooten is wealthier and house Malister has most prestige and have similar size army. Then there is who ever is ruling Harenhall for the largest fortress even though in ruined state still gives prestige. That makes House Tully 7th or 8th strongest house in there lands. On top of that most there leaders are weak. The only thing good about house Tully is the Blackfish and he is probably the most famous and accomplished Tully and wasn’t even the Leader even thought he technically took over later. Compare that with the Lannister’s next door The strongest Army, Richest house, most Prestigious as former Kings and strong leaders for most of their history and feared and respected by there bannermen and everyone else.

I think Tully were respected because they show honor and loyalty but not taken seriously because they are too weak but kept in power because they have good administrative leadership. For centuries Tully ruled the Riverlands but many of their "vassals" don't take them seriously because usually Tully main army are made up of other houses. The Houses that many fear and respected has always been Blackwoods and Mallisters due to them being the main brute muscle and numbers of Riverland defense. Blackwood are powerful family with longer history than Tullys who used to rule the north then riverlands after their exile from the north. Many great riverland fighters, kings, and crown princes and war victories comes from Blackwood tides while not forgetting most notable figures in GoT history originally have relationship to the Blackwoods. Mallister were Riverland coastal defenders with history of fighting iron-borns and defending the seagard, flints , and etc from pirates and rival houses it was mallisters who fought Lannister's head on at harrenhall . After all of that Mallister and Blackwoods follow Tully because they owe Tully for their leadership because Tully accepted Blackwoods as their own when they had no place to go when starks force them out and Mallister were close friends with Tully family before they took the river throne. It was Mallister and Blackwoods who vote Tully to be their lords not because of fear but out of respect.

Its about land mass and levies as it about historical leadership, the Tullys were the first to defect to again and had win fall

In the boocks edmure has a "no man left behind" mentality

It doesn’t help the Tully’s rep much that in HOTD and the beginning of GOT House Tully is led by dying old men.

Edmure is done dirty

For the rector for HOTD in the Reach the Corrent lord Tywell is a child, at least in the book they are, can't remember if they said so in the show. But I don't see a reason to change that

House Tully have some respect in the Riverlands, compared to the Tyrells who are seen as a over reaching leaches

who do you think is the most successful house in westerosi history? i think this would be the gardeners while they are officially extinct you have to remember that the starks are a cadet branch bieng decended from brandon the blood blade gardener and the lannisters decend from lann the clever who was the son of one of garth greenhands daughters either florrian the fox or rowan gold tree if this is true then you have to think that the three stronges of the seven kingdoms the reach, westerlands and the north were built by the gardeners the latter two still being ruled by houses directly decended from two grandchildren of the first and only high king of the first men garth the greenhand.

It's funny that the main stain on House Arryn was actually because of a Tully mother 😂

I mean Robb was half Tully…soo…it’s not that big of a beta move

No there 2nd behind the Arryns of the vale 😂