Is Hydrogen or Synthetic fuels the end for Electric Cars? 

Just as I am reading the news I read that the Dutch government is going to invest 1,7 billion Euro into new Wind parks located at the North Sea. That should be enough for 750 up to 800 new turbines. And that should be enough for 10,7 gigawatt up to the year 2030. And it is twice as much as they had originally planned to do. And of course that is due to the situation with Russia. So including the installment they cost around 2,2 million Euro each. And it is also good news for the fish population, because they get new protected breeding grounds where large fishing vessels are not allowed to come. And where they can hide for predators.

Lots of big batteries sitting charging from the grid is also a great thing for stabilizing renewable energy - further reducing our need to burn natural gas. If we all get used to leaving EVs plugged-in when we're not using them, we will largely solve the energy storage problem.

Thanks. Love San Diego area. ❤️😎👌

He's certainly up there with the Fully Charged Show team! 😁👍

Moggy? Is that Morris minor, that's one meaning of that on UK other is cat :)

Spread the word. 😁👍

Agreed, but there is still plenty of easy low hanging fruit in burning less fuel and that is driving more economically and using you heating more economically - save the planet and your wallet!

@@TC-V8 you don't see many people trying to drive economical, even after the recent price rise, its called eco safe driving in an HGV.

Get a job👍

You do realize that Batteries and Energy doesn't come out of nowhere either right?

Thanks. 👍

I know. I was being very generous to the petrol pricing at the moment. 😁👍 Thanks for sharing. 👍

The bad news is that diesel is expected to reach £3.00 per litre later this year.....with petrol do doubt close behind..

@@Brian-om2hh I've heard that too. Far from me to side with ICE drivers, but oil companies are rinsing them. The price of petrol jumped because crude oil went from $96/barrel to $123. It's now back down to $105. Didn't see the price of fuel drop, just some paid oil wonks in the news, saying it could reach £2/litre or more. It's extortion. They should put a windfall levy on oil companies and energy suppliers.

@@blackmore_s Just how long any such increases may last is a guessing game. But you really do have to wonder if the " they've now got used to paying that, so we'll leave it at that price" syndrome will take effect? Especially as the big oil companies know full well their market is slowly slipping away. Not that it worries me unduly (Kia eNiro here). Once EV take up rises considerably, I'm waiting for the inevitable question to be asked, which might be: "why are taxpayer funded handouts still being given to the oil industry each year?" Those billions could be used to increase the capacity of the renewable energy sector, which, given what has happened very recently, might seem to be rather pressing...... And if the powers that be don't know where to start with that, I suggest they take a trip to the Orkney Isles. Orkney generates around 20% more electricity than it uses, with the excess going to the mainland Scottish grid. A combination of wind, solar and wave turbines are used there...... And if it works for an island of approximately 20,000 people, then surely it can be scaled up?

Fear not, your 5p tariff will rie to 7.5p soon..... Still, if your EV has reasonable efficiency, you should still be looking at less than 2.5p per mile electricity costs. Still a *long* way to go to get anywhere near the cost of petrol.......

Yep. Maybe I should revisit the cost of ownership in another video. 👍👍👍

Yep, as the beemer would probably be over 40k it would pay luxury car tax for 5 years which is 520 a year so that’s £2600 down the drain. Tesla=£0

That's a great question, with a long answer. I've made a note of that to cover in our next Q&A session. 👍👍👍 Oxfordshire doesn't have that bad a gCO2/kWh figure, why do you think that?

Right now EVs are getting by on infrastructure that was largely designed for pre-EV needs. If you look at petrol prices, though, we're kind of straining refining & distribution capabilities as well. We're going to have costs to maintain & upgrade energy sources & distribution one way or another. It's just a choice of which ones we spend the time & money on. But I agree that the price is high due to lack of used options in EVs at the moment, and I already have a low-emission ICE vehicle lifestyle, living close to work & taking public transport, etc. The main draw of an EV for me is instant heat in our Canadian winters.

Spread the word. 😁👍

Anyways the efficiency of the EV offsets it tank weight.

Thank you, spread the word. 😁👍

Not true. Hydrogen and synthetic fuels have been around for a long long time. The Germans used synthetic fuels in WW2 as they had no access to normal fuel. The US spent millions and millions into synthetic fuel research just after WW2. There is no getting around the science, hydrogen and synthetic fuels just take multiple times more energy to produce to go the same distance.

@@ElectricClassicCars The german’s didn’t capture carbon from the atmosphere to make fuel they used coal .The US situation was a massive waste due to politics and outside influences unfortunately. serious un molested investment into synthetic fuel and Hydrogen without big oil’s stifling hasn’t really occurred up until the last decade , manufacturers have only really toe dipped, great video Im not trying to discredit you or anything I personally think we will see different technologies being applied to there strengths in the future also Science changes daily!

well said... there was a time when EVs were a joke... and look where we are now.. and electric vehicles were also there for a long time..and it took a really long time for EVs to become this widely adopted.. in my opinion, if the future is electric, and all of the vehicles are electric we may achieve carbon neutrality and very good efficiency (yeah that's science).. but definitely there will be some other problems.. everything comes with a cost. which this EV crazies will never understand.. an ideal future will be having diversified solutions for the problems. no one will ever want synthetic fuels to replace EVs.both can easily co-exist.. but people who are just blind towards the other technologies will never see it..(both sides have these kind of peope)

It was already a very long video so I might cover vehicle production and end of life scenarios in a future video. 👍

In which case, it might appear as though Volvo need to clean up their act. If Volkswagen are able to produce electric vehicles in their new manufacturing plants which have a zero carbon footprint, and are powered by 100% renewable energy, then why don't Volvo? And if they *did* manage to achieve that, then perhaps they would also like to sign up to the legally binding Paris Climate Agreement, like VW already have?

Especially when it's stored at 10,000psi in the tank too. 😁👍

It isn't strictly *necessary* as such, that a garage has a roof, and you never know - on the basis that what goes up must come down - the roof might land somewhere where it'll be some use.... eventually. Come to think of it - how about a hydrogen powered pogo stick (and a parachute, obviously)?

@@vipertwenty249 however, my garage is under our bedroom! 😀

@@jefffarrell5603 I have hand crocheted parachutes from Plummitt&Thudd.Co for sale to wear in bed?

Not really a risk, because what leaks from a carefully sealed pipe or tank, leaks from an unsealed garage (or bedroom) 100 times more easily. This leaked hydrogen won't accumulate anywhere, just like your semiconductor facility (I assume) didn't explode regularly. Leakage was harmless even with the BMW Hydrogen 7, which by design leaked fuel for cooling the (cryo-)tank. That said I agree, battery electric makes much more sense. Because it's much more efficient and also easier to handle.

Isn't your local power station generating that energy?

@@BombSponge Not if he's getting it from solar......plus perhaps battery storage too.

@@Brian-om2hh Thats a big IF. You'd need a lot of panels to power your home plus the extra to charge a car. Might work in Africa.

@@BombSponge This rather depends on your energy usage and miles driven. I only have 3.5kW of solar but roughly generate as much as I use over the year.

@@SimonEllwood Very true. If you use hardly any energy and drive rarely it's perfect. I think in most cases we tend towards averages not absolute minimums?

The secondhand EV market will begin to thrive in the coming years as more and more new cars come onto the market now. 👍

@@ElectricClassicCars hoping so - I do wonder though how low an EV will ever go in price simply because of the large valuable materials in the battery.

Even other companies are taking a shot at it. Porsche, Lamborghini, Mclaren, Siemens energy, Ferrari is thinking about it but not sure yet, even racing organization Formula 1 is committed to efuels ( synthetic fuel ) in 2026. Audi also is joining F1 when it announced they are using that fuel for 2026. Hydrogen Combustion Engines also are being looked at thanks to Toyota. Cummins is even working on a hydrogen ICE as well.

Ice cars just make for great conversions as well. (or if your like me and looking to build a better frame out of Cold rolled steel).

As Moggy explained, the majority of charging takes place whilst you are doing something else, such as sleeping, or working, so time to charge is mostly irrelevant. If you are doing a long trip, yes, you will have to stop to add some range, but it doesn't matter whether you are driving an ICE vehicle, or en EV, you can only drive so far before stopping (your bladder has a finite capacity). Motorway services have rapid chargers, so you can add a lot of range in a relatively short space of time: by the time you have been to the toilet, and had a coffee, your EV will be fully charged and ready to go. As for range, the average new car, in the UK, is only driven 28 miles per day.

@@jonathanmason9521 agreed to disagree... I usually don't sleep while charging when I'm on longer trips. As long as recharging times come don't down dramatically it's totally useless at least for me. I know it's a common argument "the average..." true, but do I have different cars for different needs? So I need one car doing everything. It's as simple as that. I believe newer and better battery technology will change the situation. Range 700-1000km and recharging in 10 minutes. Plus a definitely improved charging infrastructure (it's a nightmare where I live in the middle of a big city)... way too many ifs for me

@@neglectedloves Cars like the BMW i4 have a 300 mile range, and can charge from around 10% to 80% in about 30 minutes. I would spend that time (after driving for a few hours) to go to the toilet, grab a coffee and some food, and stretch the old legs a little. A 30 minute stop every 200 miles or so isn't really a deal breaker. With a petrol car, you would still go to the toilet, grab food and drink, and stretch your legs, and THEN STILL have to stand pumping petrol in. But for 99% of the time, my EV would charge at night time, so my total time spent charging (other than the odd road trip) would be zero.

@@Nick_Smith1970 in my experience none of these mileage figures are near actual real life results! Unless you drive only 100km/h at perfect temperatures and weather conditions. Furthermore most chargers I have come across weren't either delivering the promised power and speeds nor were 80% reached in 30 minutes! To be realistic it's rather 45 minutes and I can't drink so many coffees or have that many legs to stretch to be patient enough to wait that long. Simply it was a drag... As stated before when electric cars reach 800km distance with normal driving in any conditions I will jump the bandwagon 🤓 PS: the charging over night argument doesn't count for me living in a big city with ridiculously few charging points usually occupied by gas guzzlers... 😂

@@jonathanmason9521 Spot on! Indeed recent models will recharge fully in less time [at a high power charger] than you can pee and pick up a coffee!

It's in situations such as that where solar on your roof, along with a decent sized storage battery begins to make sense.....

Also the co2 difference between EV conversions using new battery and motors vs using used 😉⚡🌿

Great idea. 👍👍👍

It’s almost meaningless

Tesco charging is still free for 30 minutes here.

They have invested billions in engine manufacturing plants(sunk cost) Battery manufacturing facilities are still limited. Raw material supplies have not ramped up enough. Car makers are nervous of battery issues and warranty claims(Nissan and gm have had nightmares) Like moggy said, their dealers hate the low ongoing running costs which losses them a lot of business.

That would be a video that SHOULD go viral and put this guy on the map!!!

It not a simple thing to quantify. Because if you buy a car with 300 miles of range but in 15 years time it still has 200 miles range and that is enough for you then Effectively the battery is still like new. If you really want the 300 mile range back in 2037 then there are 2 things to bare in mind. 1. The old pack will still have a long life and value as stationary storage before ultimately being recycled. 2. In 2037 a new 300 mile capable replacement pack could be much cheaper.

JF ..is there data that shows only a 33% reduction over 15 years ?.. your logic sounds good ( as far as maybe not noticing any difference ) but it doesn't stack up (ie.. its not Effectively "like new", ..its Effectively like 66% of new... and in 2037.. a replacement pack could be "much more expensive" (so that is an assumption) Tesla's Powerwalls have doubled in cost in several years and a 10 year warranty to be at 70% (yet not the same thing as EV car packs) but yeah. I certainly hope to find some "factual battery performance data" ( Ive heard about moving then down the line towards stationary use.. and ultimately being recycled) is there is already solid data about the Tesla battery packs lifespans ? have they not been around since 2008ish ? (Im a newbie trying to learn) and Ive heard 500,000 miles...and... Ive also heard 100,000 miles ?) a very interesting subject for sure.. and as you say.. not simple to quantify (so many variables ( apparently they like Denvers high altitude.. but what about Canada sub zero...etc etc ) what a great presentation !

Definitely. 👍

And throw some solar into the mix too ( if you have it ) and things begin to look better still......

Very true. 👍

Spread the word. 😁👍

If you have an EV it should work out cheaper, depending on how many miles you do. It's worth crunching the numbers to work it out. 👍

@@ElectricClassicCars Yeah, suppose that would be some spreadsheet, listing all the appliances in the house, and working out how long they're on, or on standby, or off etc. I'm working form home, so won't be doing many miles really. Wifey will probably be pinching the i4 to go to work, as it will be cheaper to run that her Fiesta. We'd be doing maybe 600 miles a month, so that would be 2 full charges in the i4 per month. So 168 kWh x £0.075 is £12.60, and on our current rate of £0.28/kWh, it would cost £47 a month. If only there was a website calculator you could chuck some basic info into, for the average home.....

I just crunched my Aussie figures (I have a older 3.2kWh solar system).. they buy back at 5 cents a kWh..and sell to me at 25c a kWh (so over 89 days.. they bought back 384 kWhs at $19.70.. and sold me 809 kWhs for $204..and then ADDED a Supply Charge at $136 (so $1.50 per day to be on the grid) my 9 kWh daily average at $3.84 per day ($1.50 of that being supply charge and $2.35 being usage of 9kWh ) so to re-charge an EV.....let us say 27kWh (every night ?) multiply $2.35 x 4 ( 9kWh for the home...and 27kWh for the EV.. 35 total plus $1.50 ) which would still be under $11 Aussie dollars (5 British pounds per day ?) to run my home (no heating no aircon) and also drive a 100 kilometre commute a day (60 miles) our diesel instantly hit $2.60 ltr when the little napoleonic turd starting playing war games.. and now its back to about 2.05 ltr (so 100 kilometres in my 2010 Jeep 2.8 diesel 6 speed (a very economical vehicle indeed (it was at $1.30 ltr anyway ! (June 2018).. but today.. to go 100klms pushing it.. maybe A$20 ? ( and that takes no vehicle maintenance into account) so EV is easily faaaar more economical ( for short range stuff).. and far less maintenance (but our problem down under.. is the cost of storage batteries) if we could store our solar energy.. the power companies would go out of business (apparently its still well over $20,000 investment .. to get a storage system.. that will even cover 3 rainy days for a 3 brd house of 5 people) my $4 a day costs are extremely cheap..only as Im a retiree with only a computer, a light bulb and a fridge (many families pay over a $400 a month for electricity even with 6kWh solar systems on their roofs (because of storage battery costs) if I had aircon on..or.. a pool filter( or 3 kids taking showers) I could very easily double or even triple my power bill ) but even with the EV re charging 25kWh a night.. it would still be far cheaper and better for the environment.. than buying petrol or diesel ( but with our extreme distances down under ( many many people drive over an hour or two "each way" to work daily (Im retired and hence...why my costs are but a piddling) but if I was younger.. its just such a no brainer to go EV ( as Moggy so clearly points out ) we all need to address our carbon footprints (so doing 1000 kilometres a year in a diesel jeep.. is far less of a carbon footprint than some guy in a Prius doing 50,000 miles a year .. or some guy in a 4cylinder Toyota driving daily) our Governments are "in the way" of change ( they don't want us to have storage batteries.. or EVs (it could easily happen overnight) or ..to get off coal generated power plants ( we sell $130 Billion of coal every year to China) when home storage batteries become affordable.. the power grid is virtually out of business...what a great scam.. buy for 5 cents.. sell back for 25 to 40 cents ! .. but yeah .. good point Moggy.. the big BB haulers...need diesel ( but its the daily commuters.. inside 50 mile radius ..especially in high density cities.. that should all be on EV asap (by 2030 or earlier) apparently the US Federal Govt..gives a $7500 cash rebate to anyone buying a used 2019 Tesla for $25K (with 25k miles on the clock) and Oregon State another $2500 tax write off) the more information.. like above.. the faster it will happen..and it doesnt mean motor heads cant still have their V8s and motor racing.. its the masses commuting.. that can really change carbon footprint ( 37 million people in Tokyo ! ) I dont know London's population ?..California is working very hard on it (a very positive progressive state) so yeah.. its happening..its happening in China ..Australia will be at least 10 years behind the rest of the world (it always is (we love our backwardness) we are almost into the 20th century.. but not quite .. I take my hat off to ECC.. and EV West.. and all the new technology.. the Sheople will come around.. in time..via the examples of others