@@SamsTrainsI’ve bought several locos from Heljan and they’ve have honestly been the best I’ve bought, the best of which being the north British prototype diesel from them And compared to other fantastic locos I own such as the Bachman H1 the heljan locos I’ve bought have been just as good in all aspects or even better.
@@lukejackson8741 fair point but most of my model club own heljan locos as they do 0 gauge diesels and some 00 which consists of some heljan locos and from what I’ve seen and heard from them they all preform and look perfect
Rivarossi made their locomotives and LMS coaches to 3.8mm /ft. I was working at Peco when the owner of Rivarossi visited Sydney Pritchard. Sydney tried to persuade Mr Rossi that he should make it to 4mm/ft and I was asked to find a Mk1 coach in 4mm/ft and and old Playcraft Mk 1 in 3.5mm/ft to show the difference. The result was that Mr Rossi thought he could capture both HO and OO markets and he failed on both counts. You may remember at the time (late 70s) that Rivarossi made the Peco Jubilee 4-6-0 in N gauge so there was a tie in between both companies.
Looking at the size of that motor, I wonder whether the true, undisclosed reason for the weird scale is that Rivarossi came up against the reason for the existence of OO in the first place. Yes they could probably have sourced an alternative motor by the 70s but I imagine that would've put the price up quite a lot.
Interesting. I was aware in contemporary articles the Royal Scot was definitely 1/87 scale, and trix UK was the manufacturer who tried the 3.8mm effort. Rivarossi had actually chosen all their models, like märklin, to reflect 00 (H0) scale as 1/90, which makes perfect sense as German 0 is 1/45 scale. In fact, the Royal Scot was the first attempt by rivarossi for a true H0 scale locomotive, like Lima's British attempt before they changed half way through manufacturing. And just to confuse the matter further rivarossi US stock was chosen as 1/82. However with dimensional inaccuracies it's probably not that critical, although I'm well aware of the physical difference with the 3.8mm trix and 4mm stock: they really look just that bit awkward together, the 4mm being noticeably "fatter"
@@muir8009 Märklin is still 1/87th scale in everything except carriage lengths. The lengths of the coaches are the only things scaled down further, either to 1/100 or 1/93.5. This is done to aid in taking sharp turns which are still common on Märklin layouts.
Sam, I think that many of your viewers realised at once that it was an original unrebuilt Royal Scot. Also, that it was a faithful rendition of that locomotive. Your older followers, probably saw them in service.
Hello Sam. Lorenzo here, from the British 1:87 Society. The RR Royay Scot is a well known model in our circle, and one of the pioneers of British 1:87, the late Malcolm Carlsson, did a great job in correcting some of the model inaccuracies already back in the day, in a seminal article in the specialised press. I'll try to address here some of the point you noted in your review. 1. yes, the model was intended for the continental market, in a series of 'world trains'. By the way, most RR models of the age were slightly larger at roughly 1:80 scale / 3.8mm/ft, which made them larger than other models, e.g. from Lima. 2. It was a very nice model at the time it was introduced. RivaRossi was a premium brand back then, very expensive. 3. "Supermodello HO" was a marketing label to signify a higher specs model, in comparison with the others previous offerings. 4. The transmission shaft can be put back in place by carefully opening up the space between tender and loco, and sliding the shaft in. There is no need to dismantle anything -- but of course it is a tricky operation. 5. The loco can run better if properly cleaned, but the limit in its running is due to the current collection. 6. This specific model is older than you think, as it was available from the 2nd half of 1977 (here a link to the original catalogue page: www.rivarossi-memory.it/Cataloghi_pubblicati/Catalogo_1977-78/Catalogo_1977-78.htm ). Following Mr. Carsson's modelling footsteps, I have also performed some alterations to this model to address its inaccuracies and improve upon it. Anyone that interested can have a look on the British 1:87 Society (www.british-ho.com/ ) site or directly to my personal page here (chippedblade.wordpress.com/index/royal-scot-class/) Cheers, Lorenzo
Would love a separate video seeing how you gain access to the motor and whether or not you can service it and improve the performance? I feel the old girl deserves that much 😊
The main issue with these is the horrible grease in the gearbox, but this one looks like it is in an usable condition. The motor is one of the least repair friendly units around with open ball bearings
I did remove the motor and clean up the gear train - it was just the motor itself I didn't open, as the casings are so hard to open... I reckon the motor might have had it, or possibly needs remagnetising! Thanks for watching - Sam :)
From the May 1979 Railway Modeller: Rivarossi Royal Scot - rrp £57, Mainline Rebuilt Scot - rrp £21.00. The lowest advertised prices were £40 and £15.70.
Sam, I used to sell Rivarossi back in the mid ‘70s alongside Fleischmann, Märklin, Trix, Roco, Hornby, Lima and the emerging Palitoy (now Bachmann) and Airfix (defunct). The standards of Rivarossi and other European makes were far superior to the British outline stuff. Also, working lights on European made N and HO locos has been pretty standard for decades.
Working lights are indeed standard, only the really cheap starter locomotives didn't have them. Maybe because in the UK they used headcodes and no light during daytime is the reason why it was not standard with British manufacturers.
@@chriswade7470 They did and when you run them with the Scot loco as a complete train it looks much more 'right' than the lash up Sam showed in his vid. @SamsTrains - Sam if you acquire/borrow some Rivarossis LMS coaches and make up a set you'll see what I mean. I'm sure someone in the British 1.87 Scale Society (yes a British H0 society is alive and well!) would be able to help you here :)
Sold these new when I worked for Beatties. It was the RR of British outline, along with Fleishmann’s Warship. Ho scale is why they didn’t sell but for ‘79it was stunning. Don’t forget,Hornbys offerings weren’t even painted,being moulded in coloured plastic with black bits crudely sprayed on and the decoration was usually a decal. Yes,it’s noisy but Ringfield motors from Hornby/Lima etc., also sounded like a Tesla on steroids.
While Rivarossi were somewhat famous for their motors having ball bearings and there is some pride in being able to maintain one that old, I know I at least would be interested to see a motor replacement. The odd size makes it a bit tough in many cases, but I do have on my project bench a Genoa 4-4-0 that I plan to replace the motor on.
Yeah the ball bearings are nice... but they're no good by modern standards haha, a motor replacement would be great to try! Thanks for watching - Sam :)
Rivarossi was a big part of the US scene when I was reading 1980s Model Railroader magazines as a kid. Their reputation then was for passable detail, giant pizza cutter flanges, and huge chunky motors. This model checks all of those boxes.
For comparison, in 1979 I had a Triang class 37 that made a noise like a motorhead concert and an 0-4-0 diesel dock authority shunter that was the first thing to ever break the warp speed barrier. AND it had a LIGHT! I loved both of them.
Fitted a coreless motor to one of my dock shunters (Peter's Spares). Runs like a dream now - slow enough to do real shunting. Only converted one - just swap bodies occasionally.
One thing you need to realise if some one is complaining it is not accurate is that the model is of the original parallel boiler Scot and not the later rebuilt engine that Airfix or Bachmann offering. You also have to compare what it was being released against. The Hornby Duchess ,Britannia Duke engines.
If I had to take a wild guess, the inaccuracies are likely due to this being based off a different prototype of similar dimensions and/or wheel arrangements. Manufacturers would sometimes re-use mechanisms from different locomotives and adjust the proportions of the body to fit the mechanism while resembling a different prototype.
It does have (correct) squared off big ends on the front drivers, so I think the chassis is designed specifically. Bachman for example,can’t do that with much more modern stuff
@@SamsTrains Yeah it definitely looks good if it is a reused chassis from another prototype aside from the dinky smokestack. I'm mainly speaking from my experience with older N-scale locomotives where European prototype mechanism and chassis were often reused for American prototypes by companies like Rivarossi.
I feel like old models definitely get a bad rap. People tend to think of old models as clapped out pieces of junk when in reality, manufacturers were constantly innovating and giving these trains features that not even the newest of the new models today have. Over half of my collection was made before the turn of the century, but they’re still as lively and feature-packed as any of my new engines, sometimes even more so.
You can say what you want but this is a lovely locomotive and the quality of build, eventhough the somewhat weird driving mechanism, is amazing. I would buy this any day of the week.
Actually DCC was thought of in 1979. I can remember a senior (model rail since the Thirties) who was an electrical engineer at Bell Labs discussing computer control of HO in 1968-69 during our bull session-coffee breaks after our weekly meetings
Correct me if I’m wrong, but doesn’t the Hornby Fowler 4P have a part of its cab intended for a primitive DCC-type system, and that’s back in the early 80’s.
For us European modellers it's no surprise that a 45 year old HO model surpasses many modern OO narrow gauge items. Try old Fleischman, Roco, Trix etc - Rivarossi were never the best. Even try Marklin, but be sure to get Hamo, not the 3 rail models (unless you get AC track and controller as well)!
O wow, this is a fantastic model, super detailed for its age, and beautifully to scale, I wish all British rolling stock would be H0. The perfect combination of gauge and scale is very realistic. Given the good state of this locomotive and the quality of it, I don't think you have paid to much. Great review 👍
The number 6100 is significant because it was the locomotive that was sent to Century of Progress International Exposition in Chicago, USA in 1933. It traveled more than 11,000 miles on US rails even going over the Rocky Mountains and it looked like the model you're reviewing so it is appropriate to be in HO scale. I don't know if Rivarossi sold them here in the states but seeing the numbers of them we have it just may be. The locomotive was sent back to LMS and renumbered 46100 and after moving around plus renovations ended its running career in 2021 after a failure then I lost track of it but I'm sure it is preserved somewhere near you Sam. As far as the model I like it and I'm sure you would have given it an A+ when it came out in the 70s but with today's standards in mind your assessment is fair. I also like this type of review and think you should use a separate set of books to indicate a review on the release date and how it stacks up to other releases of similar age but that's me, I like to make pretend, lol. Great review and video, Jersey Bill
Fun fact - 'Royal Scot' wasn't available at the time to travel to the exposition as it was due to go in the works for a refit; so names and numbers were permantly swapped with loco no 6152 which had just been outshopped - so the loco we see running today out on the main line as 'Royal Scot' is in fact 'King's Dragoon Guardsman'. re the 1933 North American tour, the loco carries a plaque celebrating the event and that it was viewed in N America by 3,021,601people (!)
so now it would be justified if I bought one - I model US rail, but i have very soft spot for british steam. i love the way this machine looks and it's HO. edit: bought one. so excited for it's arrival.
@@user-uk8jr6zc9l still regularly doing mainline trips around the UK the most recent of which I believe was earlier this month (August 2024) from Southend in Essex to Chester with a company called Steam Dreams
I have 2 of these, a 'Royal Scot' and a 'Hector', which was made with smoke deflectors. Rivarossi also made very good looking LMS coaches for them too. They are actually strangely somewhere between OO and HO gauge. Both mine run very well and the motors don't run warm so maybe yours could do with a remag. I was attracted to them for the unusual mechanism. I have 3-railed both of mine as I run old Hornby Dublo 3-rail. I think they are super models, especially for their time. Great to see you do a modern appraisal!
Interesting. I remember when htat model came out. The model press were full of praise and gave it glowing reviews, but the only problem was the fact it was HO not OO. Price wise it was fairly costly. I've got an August 1979 copy of Railway Modeler and there is a Beatties advert that gives it a price of £35.99, in comparison I brought a Honby King from Beatties that year that cost £25.99. There is an interesting background to it's release. In 1977 Lima made it's first attempt at the UK market with a limited range of HO models including GWR 45xx and a Fowler 4F. Riverossi announced they would be joining Lima and announced their Royal Scott early in 1978. However by the time the Scott was released early in 1979, Lima had withdrawn their HO range and gone full OO, leaving the Riverossi Scott a unique and incompatable model. They did issue some coaches in HO to go with it, a composit, a brake third and a resturant car if I remember, and they were lovely models as well. But due to the whole HO scale bit any plans Riverossi had for more UK outline models were scrapped and even the Scott was withdrawn from UK shelves with in a year or so, although it remained in their European catalogues until the mid 1980's. And you only paid £100 for her, you got yerself a bargin there mate as she is a bit of a collectors item. Another European company which tried and failed at the UK market was French company Jouef, they released a class 40 diesel in the mid 70's that was praised at th time, although it does look very dated now. You can find them on ebay for £35-£45 how about grabbing one for a review, Or German company fleischmann did something similar in 1980 with a Class 42 Warship in HO but they can be pricey with good ones going for around £130+ on ebay Keep up the good work Jon
I remember the Jouef Class 40, available in BR Blue. Strangely, they released Mark 3 coaches (which were scale length 75', unlike the original Hornby ones which were a bit over 63' - easy to spot as they were 7 rather than 8 windows per side). Strange because Class 40s rarely, if ever hauled Mark 3s. But the Class 40 would make a good review.
AFAIK, Lima's only HO locos were the Fowler 4F 0-6-0 and the class 33 "Cromptons" diesel. Although they showed other loco classes as planned releases in their catalogues circa 1975, no further locos were issued before Lima withdrew their HO British stock from the market and began selling OO models. It seems the bogies developed for the intended HO class 55 Deltic were used on the OO model of same, which is why they look so short.
Great review, Sam! These were my dad's favourite locos back in the late '20s and '30s and I have a lot of his photographs of them . . . almost all without smoke deflectors . . . and the chimney did look diminutive in real life. I agree about the black crosshead guides and, for accuracy, it should have had the crosshead operated vacuum brake unit below but, all in all, I reckon it's an impressive model . . . especially as it was produced nearly 50 years ago.
Worth remembering some context,Sam. In mid 70s, Hornby's offering was limited & pitiful: the extra-lumpy Sir Dinadan 4-6-0 & revised 08 shunter (still on Jinty chassis!) were the latest locos. Lima Brit HO was mainly relabelled Euro wagons, but the class 33 diesel was well reviewed & with King, J50 & Deltic promised, it looked like a serious HO challenge was coming. Hence Rivarossi decided to stick its toe in the water while Fleischmann started tooling up its lovely HO Warship & Bulleid coaches. Jouef planned a return to Brit outline & were initially ambiguous about 00/HO choice. But Palitoy & Airfix came in with 00 models that looked about right. Lima did an about face & switched to Brit 00 (except the Deltic bogie already tooled up in HO). Hornby revealed new locos with decent valve gear & paintwork. 00 survived.
Hey Sam, I really enjoy the show. Light Emitting Diodes (L.E.D.) have been around since the early 1960s, I always wonder why everyone waited so long to implement them into products. I remember my Dads HO layout used leds on the switch/block control panel to indicate occupied block or switch direction and that was in the late 80s.
Back in 1979, LEDs were only available in red, yellow and green. Blue LEDs are a relatively recent development, and the invention of the blue LED was a necessary step in the development of a white LED. LEDs are normally monochromatic, and white light needs multiple wavelengths. A white LED is actually a blue LED with a yellow fluorescent coating over the emitter.
Hi Sam, This is one of your more pleasurable videos. The high quality of the model helped. Italy has a proud technical heritage, of which I wasn't always aware. And yes, please refurbish the motor! I'll watch that video.
Hi Sam , as i've already said, I'm on the other side of the channel, and in mainland Europe, Rivarossi was a pretty reputable and top spec brand ... before it was bought by Hornby! Nice to see that you're appreciating this model for what it was at the time, an high end, highly detailed model, that cost way more than you paid for (adjusted for inflation, it's a bargain you've fetched...). I'm really enjoying to see this half a century model getting the respect it deserve. If you want to have a try to vintage french locos, try some Jouef from the 90. The detailing was okay, but these models really shined on the mechanical side. They produced butter-smooth, heavy and powerful runners, that are sought after as of today for these qualities!
Sam, I love the vintage models. How about you do a retro review like this one or twice a month? I'm actually blown away and a bit salty because not too long ago I saw a working example in mint condition for 30£ ish. I thought it was tat especially since I own the Mainline Royal Scot with steam sound in the tender. Damn, this has LIGHTS and metal name plates? Plus bearings as a bonus? Amazing. I have a Rivarossi Bourbonnais, Big Boy and Y6B. I think their slogan and marketing of the best locomotive back then is not overly extreme. Its lovely, although out of scale for my British stuff. I recently got the Trix Flying Scotsman in HO next to my Dublo and the Trix looks like it hasn't grown up yet. As for vintage models, I have a Tyco 4-4-0 American which I think is better than Bachmann's I think especially for the late 50s or 60s. It has smoke which is noticable at slow speeds, almost completely out of metal and a reliable runner for a tender drive. Or the Bachmann Dewitt Clinton. That's the smallest powered unit I've ever seen and it runs like a watch. Besides, I don't have many classic foreign models. Oh maybe you should look at the Lima King Class. Its one of my favourite locos I think superior to the Hornby tender drive King. I detailed mine up with real coal, cab glazing and detailed pipes in the cab. The BR blue looks lovely (but it's too bright but I think it looks sweet). Final mention is Graham Farish, yes, the N gauge company, did produce some OO scale models for a while. Obscure things, but if you were to get one, they are pretty amazing. All die-cast. But yeah, this Royal Scot is going onto my wanted list now. I want one. Thank you for this amazing review, Sam. Please, more vintage models from days gone by 👍
I would like to see you do a video on British H0. Membership of The British 1:87 Scale Society is free. Lima started in the Uk with H0 in the 70s before giving up for 00. Examine why we are lumbered with inaccurate 00!
@@michaelayres9978 Good idea 👍 that will be an interesting video! I do understand why oversized models were developed (practical reasons, the chunky motors at the time) but I can't understand why this oversizing is continued nowadays . More modern motors and mechanisms make oversizing unnecessary and new models could be correctly scaled to gauge width. Commercially it could also be interesting: it would give customers a good reason to buy a new version of an older locomotive, coach or wagon. Hornby started TT and that's a great project, but the gauge is different so you have to start all over again. H0 and OO can happily run together on the same layout so it's a less daunting step for modellers to buy H0-stock.
Take a look at the coaches being hauled by this loco. As the start the 'hill' round the smaller radius curve there is all sorts of things going on, wheels are leaving track contact, there is twisting and lifting. Need to lub. the coach bogie pivots. I notice when looking at the mechanism how much side to side float and lift the centre axles have in both tender and loco. Something a lot of modern loco models do not have. Its great to be accurate, but it has to work on a (tight curved and not flat) model railway.
Rivarossi were expensive models, if only I could access my 1979 Rivarossi catalogue, it's in an inaccessible place in my ex room at my parents' house. This motor hasn't got ballbearings, but normal brass ones. The casing is very tough and not easy to open, but I recently serviced one of these by spraying contact cleaner on the commutator trough the brush housings. I cleaned out the commutator sections with a toothpick and lubricated the bearings and I had a new motor. I don't think the magnet's weak, being a ring one. The brushes are one carbon and one copper mesh.
Fascinating review Sam, I took hadn't ever heard of this! Comparing it to other models at the same time, this must have been the equivalent of an Accurascale loco back then - it's just incredible!
A lot of people hate on Rivarossi just to hate on them. :) From my own experience with Rivarossi steam from this era: - The grease and oil dries out with age and can get very sticky/sludgy. Sometimes you have to individually clean out each bearing to get truly free motion. - Probably 90% of the noise comes from the transfer gear tower connected to the motor. These can quiet down a little over time, but the only way to silence it is to replace the gears with 2 pulleys and a belt. - The motors are typically a little underpowered. You have the can type motor with ceramic magnets, so it’s not really possible to recharge them if they’ve gotten weak. - The motor should draw about 0.1 to 0.15A running free out of the model, and the total current draw of the assembled model should be about 0.25 to 0.3A running free. If it’s using more, something’s either binding or out of alignment. - Rivarossi almost always used double-threaded worms. These can work more smoothly than single-thread, but they double the speed and halve the driveline torque. Not really the best combo with the small motors, but since it has a gear tower transfer, it’s easier to change the ratio either with different gears or with different pulley sizes using a belt. Hope that all helps!
I saw one of these at a model train show & sale about two years ago. It was part of a train pack that included 3 coaches which included the original packaging. The price was pretty good - CDN$150-ish, maybe it was less. I thought the loco and coaches looked pretty good. I was intrigued but took a pass.
I still have a load of Riviarossi locomotives and even after 50 plus years they still run extremely well.. They used to have ball bearing motors. Oddly one can get repair parts for locomotives going to the 1940s as far as I know. However by today’s standards we’re looking at stone knives and bearskins.
Excellent video! The Rivarossi Royal Scot was a model of its time, but an extremely good model of its time which still looks very good. Certainly not disgraced by more modern alternatives, though they were very expensive new. The scale is interesting, it is not actually HO, but a hybrid halfway scale, 1/80 if I remember correctly. One of the things often lost in the OO-HO argument is that HO has as many dimensional compromises as OO, particularly with respect to loco width and coach length. Many coaches are 1/100 or 1/93 length but with 1/87 height and width leading to odd looking proportions. On the Rivarossi Scot it's well worth picking up if you see a good one for a good price. I collect older models (admittedly mainly HO brass) and if you accept older models for what they are they often have a charm of their own.
Well, one have to remember that the premium marques (Fleischmann, Märklin, Trix) and medium positioned brands (e.g. Rivarossi) here on the continent were of course able to deliver high fidelity in its zeitgeist but they would cost a pretty penny; easily 30% of an average wage at the time, and even more. Trix was about high fidelity whilst offering solid quality which could still take a beating. F was about high durability, detailed but more for fine handed kids, and M made solid high quality durable models, less detailed for children's hands and a tad lower priced than F. M would sometimes turn to T for manufacturing a detailed model sold as M. All came with running lamps since in the 1950s though. And all were made for life. No chance for such pricey machines on the British market other than some niche perhaps. GB train models were and still are being made to a price point acceptable for the market. Prices here are still such that you would faint, lol. On the whole, as a medium brand in the day as R was, this model easily rivals the German big 3 (M, T and F). She really is an excellent piece considering it being nearly 5 decades old. Cheerio.
Hi Sam. I mentioned the Scot and its sister loco “Hector” a fair while ago, plus their beautiful fully lined LMS coaches. They still all run nicely on my layout with the lights!. I was told it was 3.75mm to the foot. (Half way between 00 and HO), many years ago. I also use the Rivarossi coaches behind Bachmann LMS locos with the smaller “Fowler” tenders rather than “Stanier” tenders to hide the size difference. Works well for me. Things have come on since then, however they are still nice models and something a bit different. Cheers. Dave.
Sam, in 1981 the Rivarossi Royal Scot was £55.90. A set with loco and four LMS coaches cost £98.40. It was to 3.8mm to the foot scale, i.e. between HO and OO. Fleischmann made a Warship and matching coaches to HO scale a while ago. Early Lima British outline was also, I understand, HO not OO though that changed.
Rivarossi's from what I recall were never great runners and tended to be noisy. The motors were serviceable but not great. At the time, Rivarossi did offer variety, the brand's greatest strength. Long ago a department store not too far from me would have a huge sale the day after Christmas on Rivarossi with prices like 40-50% off. And this included the good stuff.
My Mainline Royal Scot is two years older. (1977) is one of my favourite models of my collection. It shows what was possible back then. My patriot of the same age as Rivossi scot is tender drive and is missing its whistle. Great addition to the collection. I think that little scot Sam 🙂
I spent many happy hours playing on the Royal Scot at Butlins Skegness in the early1960s, though it was a relief to hear that it had been removed and restored to steam in the 70s because the privations of only a couple of years at the camp were evident by the time I saw it, and I suspect it suffered a lot more in the following years. The little Granville was less popular with the kids and I believe it ended up as a static display at Bressingham around the time the Scot was moved there.
I would love to see more of these vintage reviews in the future! Maybe a mini series etc. As someone that would love to get into the hobby, but is heavily limited due to modern prices etc, understanding what vintage locos are a go/no-go would be great! Also so much of this could easily be upgraded/retro-fit in the modern era. Either way, keep up the quality content :3
You know, I love Rivarossi personally, and being a fan of British stuff I won't lie, I've wanted one of these before! Gotta say though, it's a hell of a lot better than the Mainline ones! 😄
At first I thought it was a new release. Absolutely beautiful locomotive for 45 years. My first train set from Hornby, I got for Christmas 1974. Wished I had kept it.
I remember a shop where I lived in the 1980s (Winchester - the shop became Beatties but can’t remember if it was taken over before or after this) had a set with this and the coaches in. It stayed on the shelf unsold for what seemed like years.
Hi Sam, a loco of my youth. I was an ardent Hornby owner then and reluctantly embraced mainline models which seemed more finessed - wire handrails on my Prairie and 2251 Collett 060 goods. I was totally impressed with such advances in detailing. Those lamps are about as chunky as the ones on the black 5 today? I never had a tender driven loco, just out of my price range at the time. As you rightly notice, this is a very old model which has stood the test of time and is still running. I don't recall how much it was new, but in 1977 My Hornby BR black Jinty was about £5 new!.
For it's age that loco is really well detailed. Fowler had such a hard time trying to get the LMS to move into a larger locomotive policy. Before this they would have small to medium size engines and double up as needed. Funny enough the boilers from the LNWR Large Claughtons was used for the Patriot first batch. But their steaming issues wouldn't be solved till Stanier took over a CME. And side not I've driven one of these on the Eastliegh lakeside steam railway which was a lot of fun.
Hi Sam, I looked in the Railway Modeller digital archive and these were about 47 quid when released. That was roughly 3 times the cost of the Airfix or Mainline ones. Rivarossi did matching H0 coaches too - about 8 quid, again around 3 times the price of others. I always preferred the unrebuilt Royal Scot; with their bigger smokeboxes they looked very powerful.
Hi Sam, I have one of these which I picked up at a car boot sale. It cost me £50 I think. It is DCC chipped and in addition has a bag of accessories and the original Rivarossi tag and ribbon. It shows slight signs of overheating on the tender sides. It does run very hot although it runs well if a little noisy. Keep up the good work.
Hornby announced their first DCC system, Zero 1 in 1979 so you could have chipped it, albeit with massive chips. Also the Hornby Duchess had bulb lit headlamps in 1977, as modela rapidly improved in detail. There was a spate of Royal Scots with Rivarossi, Airfix and Wrenn all doing one within a few years of each other.
I've serviced several of these, all had prop shafts missing so had to make replacements out of brass tube and soldered in brass rod for the driving ends. Not brilliant drive, but but works and better looking than others of the time. Riverossi, in conjunction with PECO, made the the N Gauge PECO JUBILEE loco. This was very scale for the era. With near scale diameter wheels and ran beautifully. A review on one of these, with others of the time would be good in the future!
Sam, if you find a Varney Super Pacific or Super Mikado, you'll be blown away, right off your feet! Now thats an old model (early 1950s) that has a better mechanism than models today (7 pole ball bearing motor, with fully adjustable springing, bearings all around, and fully metal), and it has pretty good detail (even fully operating valve gear), depending on how well the original builder of the kit did with piping the Westinghouse pump and the feedwater heater. By the way, these older models love a bit of teflon or molybdenum grease, which will quiet them down a lot. you can get both of them from woodland scenics, though Labelle also sells teflon grease. you should also buy a Hobbytown chassis kit, which can be screwed together and put under most diesel bodies.
I would like to see a modern loco of today last as long and stay in working order lol. We may slate older locos for their lack of detail, finesse and accuracy but the mechanisms were built like bricks (mostly) - Looked after they can be very reliable and fun to operate! Fascinating review Sam ^^
I found an old copy of Railway Modeller from June 1979. The r.r.p. for the Airfix Royal Scot was £19.50, £21.00 for the Mainline version whilst the price for the Rivarossi one featured in the video cost more than double at £43.95. So quality didn't come cheap.
Thanks for the review, Sam. The loco you've reviewed has a parallel boiler, no smoke deflectors. Have a look at photos of an unrebuilt Royal Scot and you'll see that this is a pretty good model especially for its age. The only issue for the time was the scale which fell between two markets.
A model I had as a child was a liliput Flying Scotsman. It was from mid 80s and was an amazing runner. It was so superior to Hornby's at the time. There was two versions of it, the one with the old Trix motor and the one with a better motor which used to run pretty silently. It was tender driven but I think it had a fly wheel. It had pick ups off the driving wheels, which were carried between loco and tender by 2 wires. I think you could tell the versions apart from these wires. The old trix one had thick red black wires, while later liliput had two thin green wires. Sadly being young it didn't get the treatment it deserved, and is somewhere in my parents loft. It even had working headlamps, but traction tyres on tender were impossible to source at the time. If you could find one it maybe worth a review.
H0 isn't too small, OO is just too big. Unrealistic even. It doesn't match the 16.5 mm for standard gauge. 1435/87 = 16.5 ✅️ 1435/76 = 18.9 ❌️ OO scale are toy trains. H0 scale are true model trains. 😜
Honestly I think it’s cool to review old models just to kinda see how far the model railroading industry has come since said model has released. If you’re ever interested I found a really cool 0-6-0 switcher in HO scale by a company called American Flyer. It’s from way back in the 1950s and it’s really cool cause it’s completely metal and they added a piston in the mechanism to make it have a chuffing sound
We gotta treat those older models with the respect they deserved. Great at the time, and while they dont always hold up to modern standards, they still have their charm. I fell in love with my fleischmann g8.1 at first sight, and my articulated mantua is lovely. Still a good runner. Speaking of mantua, their diecast steam engines have such a charm to them that is hard to describe. My old varney is without its motor, but its a great passerby on my dummy track that runs along the short end of my layout
Sam, thank you for an interesting review and look at a very different British locomotive. Meanwhile, your comment about the idea of British HO models made me think. Yes, the OO market is very strong in the UK because of how long it's been around and how many modelers use it. On the other hand, consider that Hornby has taken a major gamble in coming out with their TT line of trains. A market with very little in the way of track and accessories (buildings, figures, vehicles, etc.). Now consider a line of British HO scale trains. Plenty of different brands of track, buildings, figures, and vehicles to dress up the layout. Also, they could use other HO trains if they wanted to make things interesting (a French or German locomotive paying a visit for testing, perhaps?). The British HO trains would also have a market on other HO layouts as well (Remember that several British steam locomotives visited North America years ago). While these British HO models might not have much interest to established OO modelers, to someone starting out in the hobby, or modeling in another scale, British HO might be of interest to them. Edit: If I correctly recall Marklin/Trix recently did an HO scale of the Flying Scotsman. Also, Mehano did a fine model of the Class 66 diesel in HO as well. And Roco did the USA WWII 2-8-0 in HO that Rapido UK recently announced in OO scale. So there are some HO locomotives that can be run on a UK layout already.
Hi Sam, Alan from Christchurch New Zealand i had 1 of these obtained new second hand back in the 1980S it did have a Hornby type coupling on the tender only , i was new to model railways and purchase it thinking i could buy coaches to suit but nothing available in NZ. but it did run a allot smoother and quieter than any of the Hornby & Mainline locos i had. I sold it along with some other HO Liliput locos and a Liliput crane set In Feb 2024. Do enjoy your outings and other content Cheers Alan .
Graham Farish used a similar drive system with tender motor and gearing using a driveshaft to the loco. I have seen a Merchant Navy Pacific and I have a black 5 with that system. A bit fiddly but it worked OK for locos built in the 1950s! The black 5 had cast numbers on the cabside but unfortunately the chosen number was given to a loco with caprotti valve gear and a completely different style of cylinders and running plate!
I'm honestly reakly impressed, they've done a neat job and it looks better than the Mainline things to my eye. Only let down is the big crank pin bosses but can ignore that. I'd be happy to pay £100 for that.
Hi Sam, yes it was a little more expensive than the other brands, but they were really well made. I used to work abroad in the late eighties and early nineties, and considering the price of uk models, the level of detail at the time was very high, and quite frankly they put the uk models to shame. N gauge and HO gauge had lights and great accuracy in detail, but I am talking about European trains, ie Swiss , German type trains. The few uk style locomotives were excellent, but carriages were even less common, a couple that I saw in Switzerland had full seating and even one (LMS) had lights, they made Hornby look very toy like. Now with inflation and the euro, a locomotive in Europe is around the £400 mark and that is the basic model. Higher quality ones command £600+ . Oh for the good old days. Lol😊
Seeing the crooked shape of the firebox of that vintage engine, as Peter Sam/Stuart would say, "Oh dear. Someone squashed it." 😮 Vintage engines-wise, two of them I could think of: trix Class e2 and Hornby Dublo Class 28 Co-Bo
Just a comment on the chimney, as I understand it when they rebuilt the Royal Scot, they also modified the chimney and added a larger one. The way it appears in the model, I believe, the same as it appears in pre-rebuild photos.
If you don’t have a copy, get hold of Ramsey’s British Model Trains by Pat Hammond, It’s out of print, but available second hand. It comes in two volumes and covers all gauges and scales. Have a look at Trix, who were in the British market for a while with models going to Lilliput and then Dapol. Western, Warship and Trans Pennines were another level, but oddly 3.8mm to the ft.
I have both Rivarossi locomotives. The Royal Scott and Hector. Hector has the smoke deflectors. They both came in a set with LMS lined coaches. The coaches were really nice and were compatible with the Rivarossi CIWL coaches of the time. Although I think they were 1:80 scale, as the loco and coaches were too small for OO gauge, and slightly to big for HO scale. I still have both sets in the original box, and never run. Cheers!
It would be interesting to know the current the motor was drawing to check your suspicion that the magnets had weakened in their 45 years of life. Yes, plastic-cased circular Ringfield-type and similar motors and mechanisms tend to be noisy.
I like the livery and early design of the Rivarossi Royal Scot a lot better. I wish one of the current manufacturers would take another stab at an early Royal Scot. It'd certainly add some more variety.
It's odd that the tender is not driven, but does hold the motor. I'm used to have models either: 1. Tender driven (motor in tender) 2. Locomotive driven (motor in locomotive) 3. Locomotive and tender driven (motor in tender, with a shaft running to the locomotive)
Rivarossi may not have many locos I’d recommend, however the Allegheny (2-6-6-6) engines are one of them. I have a Virginian version already and have two Chesapeake & Ohio versions preordered to have both road names. Yes they are available in DC/DCC ready. They can handle some tighter curves, I’d recommend no tighter than 22” radius but I’m sure can go to 18” curves. Maybe you’ll like them for your American beasts fleet.
Rivarossi was in the 1970's the Rolls Royce of the H0 DC range as what Wrenn was in 00, those would have been a good compering for a loco of that period. By the way, Rivarossi is the brand who first to introduce your beloved spring buffers. 😂 Although an Italian brand, their main market was not Europe, but the USA, and you'll find more US models than European ones, if you look for them on the global market. But most US models where never sold in Europe, that's why you don't see them here that often. In the 1970's there was an attempt to introduce H0 in the UK, but it never broke through, as the main public was used to OO, and although you right for 00 being the wrong scale to the track, I still prefer OO. Have you opened the gear box? I ask this because at the time they used a grease, that really solidifies over the years, best to clean that out, and put new grease in. You're also right on the motor, like so many locos of that time the magnets used where not of hi quality but they can be re-magnetized, as for the love of the models of that era, you should do and repeat every now and than, and running them on a frequent times is also better than long storage. The danger of a low magnetic field is , it give you an impression you should ad more power on your controller, and by doing that the chance of burning through the field winding is high. It's nice you showed a true classic, comparing it with the models of today, is as comparing a car of that era with a modern car, makes no sense, that's why I disagree a bit on the rating you give. But we have to understand that the evolution of quality is what make our models great today…
Thanks Sam - I was previously indifferent about these RivaScotties but on the basis of your review I've bought one of the these off ebay for £50 for my British H0 layout :)
Sam, would you consider doing a motor service/upgrade? She's a beautiful lady and deserves the attention. It would also be lovely to see her running on your live streams with an upgraded motor 💜
Hello Sam,a good review, and an enjoyable video. The Rivarossi Royal Scot was reviewed in The Railway Modeller (PECO) March 1979p109, and generally gets a very good review. By the standards of British RTR models of the period, it was a high quality, well detailed model, at a premium price, as were other West European models trains of the period.. RU-vid SMT Mainline, from Canada, has done a few resuscitations of Rivarossi, and shows how to carefully access, and repair the Rivarossi electric motor. But, worse case scenario, substitute a modern can motor, and get even better performance. Also, as you are doubtless aware, a good medium speed run in will do your Royal Scot wonders, best wishes and regards from Australia.
San, you were done. About 18 months ago there was one on eBay. It was in the wrong place and I only found it when I looked at the seller's other items. It was a model I always admired but never managed to buy. I paid, from memory, £26.00 for my one. I model O gauge so it is purely to say I have one, but nevertheless I am pleased with my acquisition. Btw. Some of the early Lima diesel locus were modelled in HO scale.
Rivarossi was a reasonably popular brand here in the US back in the day, and often released their steam locomotives under the Mehano and IHC brand labels. Their Moguls, Pacifics, and Mikados in particular are considered to be good, solid pieces for the price on the secondhand market, typically setting a buyer back less than $100 at a show. Their passenger cars have some crisply-painted liveries and can also be found for inexpensive prices, but have issues with derailing thanks to their "pizza-cutter" plastic wheels with massive flanges that people have found difficult to replace. 33" wheels from Intermountain or Walthers tend to grind against the brake shoes on the truck frames, and many in their frustration have shaved them down or cut them off.
Hi Sam, just a comment about tender drives. I know that there is a lot of negativity in the UK about this, however, European companies have used them for years and even continue to use them in the highest end models today. As an example, the recent, excellent Brawa 01 pacific loco catalogue number 40952, running number 01 201 which retails at a staggering 432Euro or roughly 365 quid (for the DC version, not DCC or sound or smoke), still has tender drive. This is because with any boiler mounted drive it would be impossible to get the correct and realistic under boiler 'see through' detail. The German modellers are often very picky on fidelity and details like this are important - say, a bit more important than 'sprung buffers for example. Cheers Phil PS glad you checked on the origins of this loco, other BR designs like the SR Lord Nelson, were strongly influenced by this FOwler design.
Very true about Brawa quality and price. But it isn’t true that the Lord Nelson class owed anything to the Royal Scot, in fact they were designed earlier than the Royal Scot, and the LMS borrowed a set of Lord Nelson drawings to help the Derby drafting office and North British to design the Royal Scot. Fowler himself had very little to do with the design after the rejection of his proposed compound Pacific! Both the southern and LMS locomotives gave the moderate performance until modified by Bulleid and Stanier respectively.
I would really, really love to see a video on servicing the motor itself, or a coreless conversion. She's a beautiful old girl, and deserves some love.
